Arizona and Seattle

ringless

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Coming into this season I thought this game was 98% chance of AZ being embarrassed. But the more I watch of both these teams I get a different feeling. With football it's easy to have a short memory. There are always surprises in the NFL.

I can't use last year as a reference point because when we played in Seattle we did so without Fitzgerald, we had our 4th QB playing, and 4th RB. Just not a lot of information can be used because both teams are fielding a much different team than that point.

I'm a big believer that a great defense will overcome a great offense more often than not. Just look at what happened with the Denver defense against the Packers. Or Seattle against Denver the last couple of years.

First of all, I really can't buy into the AZ defense. We are ranked 3rd and 4th in offense and Defense on the NFL site. DVOA puts us at 3rd and 6th as well. Which I just don't buy into either. I've had my doubts and I think part of it is being a snakebitten fan always waiting for the other shoe to drop. We haven't shown the ability to get to the QB this season, and we will get a slight boost with the return of Okafor but it's nothing to write home about. We have however had the best ranked DB's in the league, but I just feel you build from the trenches out. We are SLOW at the LB position across the board. Trying to contain Wilson will be a bigger problem than it's been in years past when either Freeney or Woodley are on the field. Woodley's been on the field a lot and I can't even remember a play that he was involved in this year.

Luckily the Seahawks offense isn't that great. (See Redzone rankings, 3rd down conversions, points scored) It's not like Seattle has to score a lot anyways with their defense. I will go ahead and says it's an even matchup. Not really favorable to either side.

It's all going to be about strength on strength. At worst Seattle is the 2nd best defense in the league IMO. Arizona could be the best offense they've faced this year. Carson Palmer has the highest QBR in the league. Higher than Dalton, Brady, and Rodgers. They lead the league in PTS scored and TD's at 32. They've scored 96 more points than Seattle through 8 games. Chris Johnson is the second leading rusher in the NFL. Fitzgerald is having the best year of his career, and leads the league in TD's. The OL ranks in the top 10 according to PFF. It's a really well balance team right now on offense. It's not even about the stats. When you watch them play they fight for every yard. The routes timing is often impeccable.

This is the first time since the Pete era began that I feel like this is a game we can win. Not will. Can. But I'd be comfortable saying it's a coin flip for once. There is no clear advantage to me.

Really interested to hear what your thoughts are. Especially Kearly, Scottemojo's as well. Specifically on what to expect from the strength on strength matchups and what some of the advantages might be.

I am guessing it will be Lane on Brown, Williams on Floyd, and Sherman on Fitz for the majority of the snaps. I certainly don't expect a high scoring game. I'd think 20 points can win this one because I think our offense is really going to struggle. Pressure on Palmer and bad things happen. Seattle just happens to be able to pressure.
 
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ringless

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Would also like to point out neither team has proved anything yet against the better teams.

AZ wins in regards to DVOA rankings:
16th- Baltimore
19th Saints
22nd Browns
29th Bears
31st Lions
32nd 49ers

While the best team Seattle has beat is Dallas without Romo
25th Cowboys
29th Bears
31st Lions
32nd 49ers

Both teams have failed when playing teams with winning records, or in the top half of the league. Although I think it's clear both teams are better than that.
 

jammerhawk

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On any given Sunday.

That said, this is a key game for the divisional title. Fortunately it is in Seattle and that will help Seattle somewhat.

Reality is however that AZ has been playing well this season and so far and the Hawks not as much. Seattle however is starting to get it together and playing more convincingly on D and better on O. I expect a close tightly contested game and solid play from both teams.
 

hawknation2015

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ringless":v1u8d4ys said:
Would also like to point out neither team has proved anything yet against the better teams.

Arizona lost by 12 points to a Michael Vick/Landry Jones-led Steelers team.

Seahawks have not lost by more than 10 points in the last four years, including playoff games. The last time was October 30, 2011 against Cincinnati . . . an NFL record 73-consecutive games. They have played three undefeated teams this season and more than held there own in agonizingly close losses.
 

Jase

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ringless":3adujva7 said:
First of all, I really can't buy into the AZ defense. We are ranked 3rd and 4th in offense and Defense on the NFL site. DVOA puts us at 3rd and 6th as well. Which I just don't buy into either.

ringless":3adujva7 said:
Luckily the Seahawks offense isn't that great. (See Redzone rankings, 3rd down conversions, points scored)


This seems odd to me. You don't believe stats when they tell you that your team is good, but you do believe them when they tell you the Seahawks are bad?

:3-1:
 
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ringless

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hawknation2015":239ahw1c said:
ringless":239ahw1c said:
Would also like to point out neither team has proved anything yet against the better teams.

Arizona lost by 12 points to a Michael Vick/Landry Jones-led Steelers team.

Seahawks have not lost by more than 10 points in the last four years, including playoff games. The last time was October 30, 2011 against Cincinnati . . . an NFL record 73-consecutive games. They have played three undefeated teams this season and more than held there own in agonizingly close losses.

They lost by 10 this year though didn't they. What made you choose 10 as opposed to 11 or 9? I'll tell you. Its the same reason I choose to say Carson Palmer is 12-2 in his last 14 games. I don't think it matters that it's been 73 games because all streaks end, and those games have nothing to do with the one coming up. When is the last time Seattle lost two games back to back twice in a season, and twice in a same season? They did it this year. They hadn't done it in those previous 73 games I'd be willing to bet on it. Which is why it's useless information. That's like the 49er fans that say they have 5 rings when their team performs poorly. It just doesnt matter. Or it would be like me saying Palmer is undefeated at century link as a Cardinal. I also didn't say who I thought would win. I said for the first time in the Pete era I felt like it could be a coin toss. I think most people could agree don't you?

Arizona lost but up until that last play we were in that game, and I'm not even going to get into what I felt happened that game. Very lopsided officiating. In both our losses just like Seattle in their four we had a chance to win the game at the end of the game.

I feel like our teams match up well. I feel like the first one to 20 will win this game. I certainly see Seattle's defense being the most disruptive this year on our offense. I also feel like it will be one of the worst offenses our defense has gone up against. Going off the results of this season I think that's fair to say.
 
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ringless

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Jase":272332ss said:
ringless":272332ss said:
First of all, I really can't buy into the AZ defense. We are ranked 3rd and 4th in offense and Defense on the NFL site. DVOA puts us at 3rd and 6th as well. Which I just don't buy into either.

ringless":272332ss said:
Luckily the Seahawks offense isn't that great. (See Redzone rankings, 3rd down conversions, points scored)


This seems odd to me. You don't believe stats when they tell you that your team is good, but you do believe them when they tell you the Seahawks are bad?

:3-1:

Stats are a reference and not the end all. I also said that I feel Arizona's defense is very overrated despite what the stats say. Didn't I?

A lot of our big wins and overinflated defense rankings are due to a large amount of turnovers in a few games. Something that can not be replicated for 16 weeks.
 

HawkFan72

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I agree that this game is a coin flip. This will be the best Arizona team the Seahawks have seen in years. Arizona has looked really good against a pretty light schedule, while the Seahawks have struggled against a pretty tough schedule. It really does get balanced out. I don't believe the Cards are as good as they have looked, nor the Hawks as bad as they have looked. But they are both really good teams, don't think I am trying to just knock the Cards. They absolutely have dominated the schedule they've had so far.

I am not confident in a win, but I won't be surprised if the Hawks win. Like you said, it could go either way.
 
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ringless

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HawkFan72":3jqfsojn said:
I agree that this game is a coin flip. This will be the best Arizona team the Seahawks have seen in years. Arizona has looked really good against a pretty light schedule, while the Seahawks have struggled against a pretty tough schedule. It really does get balanced out. I don't believe the Cards are as good as they have looked, nor the Hawks as bad as they have looked. But they are both really good teams, don't think I am trying to just knock the Cards. They absolutely have dominated the schedule they've had so far.

I am not confident in a win, but I won't be surprised if the Hawks win. Like you said, it could go either way.

I think that's a really fair assessment given whats available to us because it's true. The schedules have been opposite of each other for the most part.
 

djb28

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When it comes to games like this. Cards and Rams. I just throw all stats , coulda, shoulda and woulda away. It will be a dog fight and everything you think you know or should no will not matter. Division match ups like this are what the season is about.. :thfight7:
 

Uncle Si

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Just seems a rehash of many many posts you've already made ringless
 
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ringless

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FlyHawksFly":2y1hqg2g said:
ringless said:
What made you choose 10 as opposed to 11 or 9? I'll tell you. Its the same reason I choose to say Carson Palmer is 12-2 in his last 14 games.

Well, actually, your whole post seems like cherry picking, but this is just silly. Take 9 points or 11 points, the stat is still the same.
[/quote]

Not true at all. Seahawks streak of not losing by 10 or 9 becomes this season as opposed to 73 games. They lost to GB by 10. So it then becomes a few weeks. Huge difference. That's why I asked about why 11 points was chosen.

I said we both lost to good teams, and both beat the bad. DVOA shows that. Standings reflect it, etc. Neither of us has beaten anybody of note.

I said the Cardinals defense is severely overrated. That's not cherry picking and in fact my own opinion and I have felt this way since pre-season. We have Woodley and Freeney out there who are both in their 30s playing a kids game. I'm not fond of either one. Woodley has played around 200-250 snaps this season and accomplished nothing. We do not have the speed to contain Wilson at that position. Okafor will help, but how much

I also said that a good defense should beat a good offense and used some notable examples that actually favored Seattle. But I see that only certain things are being picked out of my posts. That's fine. I'm on a rivals board.

It's a divisional game as the above poster said and thats a great point. Trends, stats, etc can easily go out the window in that type of situation. There really is no clear advantage at this point at least to me.
 

OrFan

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Don't worry, when all is said and done you will still have a correct user name.
 
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ringless

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OrFan":8n15n3u6 said:
Don't worry, when all is said and done you will still have a correct user name.

That is more likely than not to be true. What can I say, I'm a masochist and the Cards are my abuser.
 

Hawkpower

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I'd say the two teams are pretty close to even right now. AZ has looked better, with a cake schedule, Seattle has more losses but has had a brutal schedule.

So for the 15th, its advantage Seattle with the homefield built in. The division will likely come down to the final game of the season in Glendale.

Although listening to sports radio here in the Valley of the Sun, you would think the Cards have the division wrapped up already...lol
 

Scottemojo

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This game will be a title fight. With a guaranteed rematch.

Also, Gurly is legit. Legit running backs even the field. They don't win games, but they do make games 50/50. So in division, games remaining, Arizona has 3 games vs legit RBs, Seattle has 1, and STL has 1. You do the math.


It might be a three team race week 17.
 

JSeahawks

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Anybody else have a real tough time caring about Arizona? Rams? Hate 'em. 49ers? Love kicking their ass. Arizona? Meh... It's the cardinals, who cares. I expect to sweep them in both our upcoming games.
 

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Had AZ been fortunate enough to catch Seattle earlier in the year, like STL did, I think this would have been a win for AZ. I'd say the edge to Seattle for no other reason except for that this is when they usually start to hit stride every year.
 

AgentDib

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It's true that the Cardinals have been our direct rival less often than the other two teams but they've all been primary rivals at times, and from the other perspective the Seahawks have been every other NFC West team's rival. This is our 14th season in the division and we have been division contenders for all but the '08/'09 seasons, and we have won the division more often than not.

NFC West since Seahawks joined
2002: 49ers, Seahawks/Rams, Cardinals
2003: Rams, Seahawks, 49ers, Cardinals
2004: Seahawks, Rams, Cardinals, 49ers
2005: Seahawks, Rams, Cardinals, 49ers
2006: Seahawks, Rams, 49ers, Cardinals
2007: Seahawks, Cardinals, 49ers, Rams
2008: Cardinals, 49ers, Seahawks, Rams
2009: Cardinals, 49ers, Seahawks, Rams
2010: Seahawks, Rams, 49ers, Cardinals
2011: 49ers, Cardinals, Seahawks, Rams
2012: 49ers, Seahawks, Rams, Cardinals
2013: Seahawks, 49ers, Cardinals, Rams
2014: Seahawks, Cardinals, 49ers, Rams

The rivalry feeling for fans has less to do with on field stuff and more to do with how annoying 49ers fans are.
 
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