Breakdown of Jimmy Graham Blocking

http://www.fieldgulls.com/football-brea ... d-blocking

Figured some of you could chime in on this.
If you are Pete, why not do something drastic with Graham and say if you don't put in the effort to do what your asked you're not playing and sit him a game?

On the third and 22 in this sequence he really does act like a spectator avoiding all contact.

There is an easy solution to all this that people have been talking about for months: put Graham out wide at Split End, making him our go-to WR and allowing him to dominate smaller defensive backs, rather than wasting his time trying to block and/or maneuver around defensive linemen.

hawknation2015":1t53926b said:

There is an easy solution to all this that people have been talking about for months: put Graham out wide at Split End, making him our go-to WR and allowing him to dominate smaller defensive backs, rather than wasting his time trying to block and/or maneuver around defensive linemen.

Click to expand...

Yes. Stop wasting his talents. Just put him at WR.

hawknation2015":2quyewog said:

There is an easy solution to all this that people have been talking about for months: put Graham out wide at Split End, making him our go-to WR and allowing him to dominate smaller defensive backs, rather than wasting his time trying to block and/or maneuver around defensive linemen.

Click to expand...

But why hasn't Seattle done that? He clearly can be the best receiving TE in the game when his strengths are accentuated. Or are you suggesting to just make him a pure WR and not ask him to do what a typical TE would do? I guess that would make the most sense.

But sometimes and I have no idea if this is true, but even when running routes sometimes I feel he is just standing their instead of trying to break loose like Baldwin or Kearse does when a play breaks down. That would be a lot easier to correct then teaching him blocking

ringless":3ohu9o0j said:

hawknation2015":3ohu9o0j said:

There is an easy solution to all this that people have been talking about for months: put Graham out wide at Split End, making him our go-to WR and allowing him to dominate smaller defensive backs, rather than wasting his time trying to block and/or maneuver around defensive linemen.

Click to expand...

But why hasn't Seattle done that? He clearly can be the best receiving TE in the game when his strengths are accentuated. Or are you suggesting to just make him a pure WR and not ask him to do what a typical TE would do? I guess that would make the most sense.

But sometimes and I have no idea if this is true, but even when running routes sometimes I feel he is just standing their instead of trying to break loose like Baldwin or Kearse does when a play breaks down. That would be a lot easier to correct then teaching him blocking

Click to expand...

I think his route running has been solid, but it's an adjustment to learn how to play with his hand down 50% of the time and then break on routes after crashing into defensive linemen. It's certainly not his strength.

As to why they have not done this, Carroll is a defensive-coach first, Bevell is an in-the-box thinker, and somehow they have convinced themselves that such a move would be a bad thing for whatever reason. It might also be an ego thing with Tom Cable, who thinks he can teach anyone to block. Maybe it also relates to the fact that Carroll's son has been working with the TEs, and moving Graham to WR might impact his responsibilities. Maybe it is even an ego thing with Graham, who has said time and time again that he can be a blocking TE.

It would be the most natural fit in this scheme though. Jimmy Graham is one of the best big receivers in league history. He should be treated as such, rather than continually trying to force that square peg (big receiver with elite jump ball abilities) into a round hole (in-line against defensive linemen or even in the slot a majority of the time, crashing into defensive linemen).

Title says it all ! / thread.

ringless":1grh83w7 said:

hawknation2015":1grh83w7 said:

There is an easy solution to all this that people have been talking about for months: put Graham out wide at Split End, making him our go-to WR and allowing him to dominate smaller defensive backs, rather than wasting his time trying to block and/or maneuver around defensive linemen.

Click to expand...

But why hasn't Seattle done that? He clearly can be the best receiving TE in the game when his strengths are accentuated. Or are you suggesting to just make him a pure WR and not ask him to do what a typical TE would do? I guess that would make the most sense.

But sometimes and I have no idea if this is true, but even when running routes sometimes I feel he is just standing their instead of trying to break loose like Baldwin or Kearse does when a play breaks down. That would be a lot easier to correct then teaching him blocking

Click to expand...

Didnt another thread show that he is split wide 60% of the time, the same exact ratio that he was used in New Orleans?

Isnt he our leading receiver?

Isnt he on pace for 80 or so receptions in a run first offense?

Did you see the gifs in the other thread of his good blocks?

The Graham hand wringing is weird.

Hawkpower":369xvh61 said:

ringless":369xvh61 said:

hawknation2015":369xvh61 said:

There is an easy solution to all this that people have been talking about for months: put Graham out wide at Split End, making him our go-to WR and allowing him to dominate smaller defensive backs, rather than wasting his time trying to block and/or maneuver around defensive linemen.

Click to expand...

But why hasn't Seattle done that? He clearly can be the best receiving TE in the game when his strengths are accentuated. Or are you suggesting to just make him a pure WR and not ask him to do what a typical TE would do? I guess that would make the most sense.

But sometimes and I have no idea if this is true, but even when running routes sometimes I feel he is just standing their instead of trying to break loose like Baldwin or Kearse does when a play breaks down. That would be a lot easier to correct then teaching him blocking

Click to expand...

Didnt another thread show that he is split wide 60% of the time, the same exact ratio that he was used in New Orleans?

Isnt he our leading receiver?

Isnt he on pace for 80 or so receptions in a run first offense?

Did you see the gifs in the other thread of his good blocks?

The Graham hand wringing is weird.

Click to expand...

Playing in the slot is not the same thing as split out wide at Split End. He was used more at SE in New Orleans, even though they already had a great SE in Colston.

hawknation2015":12x2pfqc said:

Hawkpower":12x2pfqc said:

ringless":12x2pfqc said:

hawknation2015":12x2pfqc said:

There is an easy solution to all this that people have been talking about for months: put Graham out wide at Split End, making him our go-to WR and allowing him to dominate smaller defensive backs, rather than wasting his time trying to block and/or maneuver around defensive linemen.

Click to expand...

But why hasn't Seattle done that? He clearly can be the best receiving TE in the game when his strengths are accentuated. Or are you suggesting to just make him a pure WR and not ask him to do what a typical TE would do? I guess that would make the most sense.

But sometimes and I have no idea if this is true, but even when running routes sometimes I feel he is just standing their instead of trying to break loose like Baldwin or Kearse does when a play breaks down. That would be a lot easier to correct then teaching him blocking

Click to expand...

Didnt another thread show that he is split wide 60% of the time, the same exact ratio that he was used in New Orleans?

Isnt he our leading receiver?

Isnt he on pace for 80 or so receptions in a run first offense?

Did you see the gifs in the other thread of his good blocks?

The Graham hand wringing is weird.

Click to expand...

Playing in the slot is not the same thing as split out wide at Split End. He was used more at SE in New Orleans, even though they already had a great SE in Colston.

Click to expand...

I am curious to see what would happen if he was used purely as a WR though.

hawknation2015":1jc8edth said:

Hawkpower":1jc8edth said:

ringless":1jc8edth said:

hawknation2015":1jc8edth said:

There is an easy solution to all this that people have been talking about for months: put Graham out wide at Split End, making him our go-to WR and allowing him to dominate smaller defensive backs, rather than wasting his time trying to block and/or maneuver around defensive linemen.

Click to expand...

But why hasn't Seattle done that? He clearly can be the best receiving TE in the game when his strengths are accentuated. Or are you suggesting to just make him a pure WR and not ask him to do what a typical TE would do? I guess that would make the most sense.

But sometimes and I have no idea if this is true, but even when running routes sometimes I feel he is just standing their instead of trying to break loose like Baldwin or Kearse does when a play breaks down. That would be a lot easier to correct then teaching him blocking

Click to expand...

Didnt another thread show that he is split wide 60% of the time, the same exact ratio that he was used in New Orleans?

Isnt he our leading receiver?

Isnt he on pace for 80 or so receptions in a run first offense?

Did you see the gifs in the other thread of his good blocks?

The Graham hand wringing is weird.

Click to expand...

Playing in the slot is not the same thing as split out wide at Split End. He was used more at SE in New Orleans, even though they already had a great SE in Colston.

Click to expand...

True enough, but in the spirit of the OP's post/point, it's similar. The point was that Seattle was misusing him by lining him up as a traditional blocking TE

He still creates a mismatch in the slot, but SE does take it a step further.

ringless":k6s2yrm8 said:

hawknation2015":k6s2yrm8 said:

Hawkpower":k6s2yrm8 said:

ringless":k6s2yrm8 said:

But why hasn't Seattle done that? He clearly can be the best receiving TE in the game when his strengths are accentuated. Or are you suggesting to just make him a pure WR and not ask him to do what a typical TE would do? I guess that would make the most sense.

But sometimes and I have no idea if this is true, but even when running routes sometimes I feel he is just standing their instead of trying to break loose like Baldwin or Kearse does when a play breaks down. That would be a lot easier to correct then teaching him blocking

Click to expand...

Didnt another thread show that he is split wide 60% of the time, the same exact ratio that he was used in New Orleans?

Isnt he our leading receiver?

Isnt he on pace for 80 or so receptions in a run first offense?

Did you see the gifs in the other thread of his good blocks?

The Graham hand wringing is weird.

Click to expand...

Playing in the slot is not the same thing as split out wide at Split End. He was used more at SE in New Orleans, even though they already had a great SE in Colston.

Click to expand...

I am curious to see what would happen if he was used purely as a WR though.

Click to expand...

As a Cardinals fan, I don't imagine you would want to see that happen? LOL.

Mike 4G":3cxw89b4 said:

hawknation2015":3cxw89b4 said:

There is an easy solution to all this that people have been talking about for months: put Graham out wide at Split End, making him our go-to WR and allowing him to dominate smaller defensive backs, rather than wasting his time trying to block and/or maneuver around defensive linemen.

Click to expand...

Yes. Stop wasting his talents. Just put him at WR.

Click to expand...

I did this in Madden. It's fantastic!

hawknation2015":2uvimv1l said:

ringless":2uvimv1l said:

hawknation2015":2uvimv1l said:

There is an easy solution to all this that people have been talking about for months: put Graham out wide at Split End, making him our go-to WR and allowing him to dominate smaller defensive backs, rather than wasting his time trying to block and/or maneuver around defensive linemen.

Click to expand...

But why hasn't Seattle done that? He clearly can be the best receiving TE in the game when his strengths are accentuated. Or are you suggesting to just make him a pure WR and not ask him to do what a typical TE would do? I guess that would make the most sense.

But sometimes and I have no idea if this is true, but even when running routes sometimes I feel he is just standing their instead of trying to break loose like Baldwin or Kearse does when a play breaks down. That would be a lot easier to correct then teaching him blocking

Click to expand...

I think his route running has been solid, but it's an adjustment to learn how to play with his hand down 50% of the time and then break on routes after crashing into defensive linemen. It's certainly not his strength.

As to why they have not done this, Carroll is a defensive-coach first, Bevell is an in-the-box thinker, and somehow they have convinced themselves that such a move would be a bad thing for whatever reason. It might also be an ego thing with Tom Cable, who thinks he can teach anyone to block. Maybe it also relates to the fact that Carroll's son has been working with the TEs, and moving Graham to WR might impact his responsibilities. Maybe it is even an ego thing with Graham, who has said time and time again that he can be a blocking TE.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Agreed.

I also believe it's Pete Carroll saying they will not change their playbook/style to cater to an individual, that's all well and good if whatever they decide to do works, but neither run or pass works.

I find it mind boggling we have Russell Wilson, Marshawn Lynch and Jimmy Graham and little to no offensive production.

TheLegendOfBoom":36tnc2u5 said:

hawknation2015":36tnc2u5 said:

ringless":36tnc2u5 said:

But why hasn't Seattle done that? He clearly can be the best receiving TE in the game when his strengths are accentuated. Or are you suggesting to just make him a pure WR and not ask him to do what a typical TE would do? I guess that would make the most sense.

But sometimes and I have no idea if this is true, but even when running routes sometimes I feel he is just standing their instead of trying to break loose like Baldwin or Kearse does when a play breaks down. That would be a lot easier to correct then teaching him blocking

Click to expand...

I think his route running has been solid, but it's an adjustment to learn how to play with his hand down 50% of the time and then break on routes after crashing into defensive linemen. It's certainly not his strength.

As to why they have not done this, Carroll is a defensive-coach first, Bevell is an in-the-box thinker, and somehow they have convinced themselves that such a move would be a bad thing for whatever reason. It might also be an ego thing with Tom Cable, who thinks he can teach anyone to block. Maybe it also relates to the fact that Carroll's son has been working with the TEs, and moving Graham to WR might impact his responsibilities. Maybe it is even an ego thing with Graham, who has said time and time again that he can be a blocking TE.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Agreed.

I also believe it's Pete Carroll saying they will not change their playbook/style to cater to an individual, that's all well and good if whatever they decide to do works, but neither run or pass works.

I find it mind boggling we have Russell Wilson, Marshawn Lynch and Jimmy Graham and little to no offensive production.

Click to expand...

I agree that is playing a HUGE role in their thought process. Carroll, Bevell, and Wilson have all said that they will not change their scheme for Graham. Those have been the talking points on the issue. "Changing the offensive scheme" was the excuse for the Percy Harvin debacle. The thing is that lining Graham up at Split End is NOT even changing the scheme. Using him as an in-line blocker changes the scheme because he cannot block, and therefore someone else has to account for him. Using him in the slot changes the scheme, because Baldwin and Lockett are both better than he is in the slot. It hurts the run game by making us more predictable; Graham comes off the field and there is a strong likelihood that we will run the ball. What would not change the scheme and would seamlessly integrate Graham into the offense would be to use him like we used Big Mike Williams, our last WR to be targeted 100 times.

As a Cardinals fan, I don't imagine you would want to see that happen? LOL.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

If I was unbiased. I would love to see him out there, as a Cardinals fan I don't. As I watch this team which I do admire deeply. I can see that the offense does have to change because Lynch has changed and Lynch was the motor to this offense. I posted before that Lynch would have a down year as it was clear his body was breaking down last year. There's not a clear replacement in place. The offensive line is struggling, and having Jimmy block isn't going to make it any better. At least by putting Jimmy out wide or in the slot you have the ability to draw a defender out of the box in hopes to create more space for the RO or even your standard run plays. I spend an unhealthy amount of time watching the Seahawks because I am truly amazed at the talent level accrued.

I think there comes a point in time when Pete has to change the scheme, and with Lynch declining that changes everything the Seahawks were on offense. Graham is your next biggest weapon for explosive plays so I'd have to think they'd want to put him in a position to succeed and that happens to be in the slot like a more traditional WR

ringless":27l5d9vx said:

As a Cardinals fan, I don't imagine you would want to see that happen? LOL.

Click to expand...

[/quote][/quote]

If I was unbiased. I would love to see him out there, as a Cardinals fan I don't. As I watch this team which I do admire deeply. I can see that the offense does have to change because Lynch has changed and Lynch was the motor to this offense. I posted before that Lynch would have a down year as it was clear his body was breaking down last year. There's not a clear replacement in place. The offensive line is struggling, and having Jimmy block isn't going to make it any better. At least by putting Jimmy out wide or in the slot you have the ability to draw a defender out of the box in hopes to create more space for the RO or even your standard run plays. I spend an unhealthy amount of time watching the Seahawks because I am truly amazed at the talent level accrued.

I think there comes a point in time when Pete has to change the scheme, and with Lynch declining that changes everything the Seahawks were on offense. Graham is your next biggest weapon for explosive plays so I'd have to think they'd want to put him in a position to succeed and that happens to be in the slot like a more traditional WR[/quote]



Lynch clearly showed he was breaking down last year?

Career high in TD's.

2nd best year in terms of yards, yards per carry.

Played in every game.

What barometer are you using for that judgement?

And I know the popular mantra here is that he is declining, and maybe he has hit a wall, but considering the 0-line issues, it very well could be just an injury, nothing more.

We dont have enough evidence yet to make that conclusion imo.

Hawkpower":3k8qs2qb said:

ringless":3k8qs2qb said:

As a Cardinals fan, I don't imagine you would want to see that happen? LOL.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

[/quote]

If I was unbiased. I would love to see him out there, as a Cardinals fan I don't. As I watch this team which I do admire deeply. I can see that the offense does have to change because Lynch has changed and Lynch was the motor to this offense. I posted before that Lynch would have a down year as it was clear his body was breaking down last year. There's not a clear replacement in place. The offensive line is struggling, and having Jimmy block isn't going to make it any better. At least by putting Jimmy out wide or in the slot you have the ability to draw a defender out of the box in hopes to create more space for the RO or even your standard run plays. I spend an unhealthy amount of time watching the Seahawks because I am truly amazed at the talent level accrued.

I think there comes a point in time when Pete has to change the scheme, and with Lynch declining that changes everything the Seahawks were on offense. Graham is your next biggest weapon for explosive plays so I'd have to think they'd want to put him in a position to succeed and that happens to be in the slot like a more traditional WR[/quote]



Lynch clearly showed he was breaking down last year?

Career high in TD's.

2nd best year in terms of yards, yards per carry.

Played in every game.

What barometer are you using for that judgement?

And I know the popular mantra here is that he is declining, and maybe he has hit a wall, but considering the 0-line issues, it very well could be just an injury, nothing more.

We dont have enough evidence yet to make that conclusion imo.[/quote]

I understand where you are coming from. But I think you can't disregard the injuries he played through last year. The fact he couldn't even go to the locker room during one game. The complete pain he was in throughout the season. The fact he is another year older, with another 300+ touches on his body. That he runs a very punishing style, that history has shown backs at his age have a steep and quick decline.

The fact that he is a human being, and when humans suffer repeated inflammation over and over the body reaches a breaking point where it is no longer able to repair like it did before. Where the tendons, fibers etc become less elastic. Recovery puts a huge demand on the body. A tremendous demand especially when its asked to do it after every hit the man has taken. Coming into this year his injuries carried over. Back issues, wrist issues, hamstring and calf issues. He is getting older each day, being pounded by 300lb wrecking balls. His body has reached it's limit. REPEATED INFLAMATION on the body just takes a huge toll. I think his body has hit the point where it can't do what it use too. All of the injuries/injuries he's played through and the start of this season I think are showing exactly what science has proven time and time again. And the fact father time is undefeated. Just look at Kobe, Jordan, Emmitt Smith, etc. We are seeing all of the results of that. Even on the first carry of the season. He isn't going to get any healthier than he is right now as the year goes on and the games get played.

ringless":1ru5yglz said:

I understand where you are coming from. But I think you can't disregard the injuries he played through last year. The fact he couldn't even go to the locker room during one game. The complete pain he was in throughout the season. The fact he is another year older, with another 300+ touches on his body. That he runs a very punishing style, that history has shown backs at his age have a steep and quick decline.

The fact that he is a human being, and when humans suffer repeated inflammation over and over the body reaches a breaking point where it is no longer able to repair like it did before. Where the tendons, fibers etc become less elastic. Recovery puts a huge demand on the body. A tremendous demand especially when its asked to do it after every hit the man has taken. Coming into this year his injuries carried over. Back issues, wrist issues, hamstring and calf issues. He is getting older each day, being pounded by 300lb wrecking balls. His body has reached it's limit. REPEATED INFLAMATION on the body just takes a huge toll. I think his body has hit the point where it can't do what it use too. All of the injuries/injuries he's played through and the start of this season I think are showing exactly what science has proven time and time again. And the fact father time is undefeated. Just look at Kobe, Jordan, Emmitt Smith, etc.

Click to expand...

At this point, this is all wishful thinking by a Cardinals fan. We just don't know yet, because he hasn't received nearly enough touches so far this season. We will have a better idea if he plays on Sunday.

hawknation2015":1eleeow4 said:

ringless":1eleeow4 said:

I understand where you are coming from. But I think you can't disregard the injuries he played through last year. The fact he couldn't even go to the locker room during one game. The complete pain he was in throughout the season. The fact he is another year older, with another 300+ touches on his body. That he runs a very punishing style, that history has shown backs at his age have a steep and quick decline.

The fact that he is a human being, and when humans suffer repeated inflammation over and over the body reaches a breaking point where it is no longer able to repair like it did before. Where the tendons, fibers etc become less elastic. Recovery puts a huge demand on the body. A tremendous demand especially when its asked to do it after every hit the man has taken. Coming into this year his injuries carried over. Back issues, wrist issues, hamstring and calf issues. He is getting older each day, being pounded by 300lb wrecking balls. His body has reached it's limit. REPEATED INFLAMATION on the body just takes a huge toll. I think his body has hit the point where it can't do what it use too. All of the injuries/injuries he's played through and the start of this season I think are showing exactly what science has proven time and time again. And the fact father time is undefeated. Just look at Kobe, Jordan, Emmitt Smith, etc.

Click to expand...

At this point, this is all wishful thinking by a Cardinals fan. We just don't know yet, because he hasn't received nearly enough touches so far this season. We will have a better idea if he plays on Sunday.

Click to expand...

It isn't wishful thinking. I like Lynch a lot. In fact I really like the Seahawks. I guess time will tell, that is my beliefs at this time and leading into the season and so far it's been the case. There is still a lot of season left to be played.

ringless":2twr8ya2 said:

hawknation2015":2twr8ya2 said:

ringless":2twr8ya2 said:

I understand where you are coming from. But I think you can't disregard the injuries he played through last year. The fact he couldn't even go to the locker room during one game. The complete pain he was in throughout the season. The fact he is another year older, with another 300+ touches on his body. That he runs a very punishing style, that history has shown backs at his age have a steep and quick decline.

The fact that he is a human being, and when humans suffer repeated inflammation over and over the body reaches a breaking point where it is no longer able to repair like it did before. Where the tendons, fibers etc become less elastic. Recovery puts a huge demand on the body. A tremendous demand especially when its asked to do it after every hit the man has taken. Coming into this year his injuries carried over. Back issues, wrist issues, hamstring and calf issues. He is getting older each day, being pounded by 300lb wrecking balls. His body has reached it's limit. REPEATED INFLAMATION on the body just takes a huge toll. I think his body has hit the point where it can't do what it use too. All of the injuries/injuries he's played through and the start of this season I think are showing exactly what science has proven time and time again. And the fact father time is undefeated. Just look at Kobe, Jordan, Emmitt Smith, etc.

Click to expand...

At this point, this is all wishful thinking by a Cardinals fan. We just don't know yet, because he hasn't received nearly enough touches so far this season. We will have a better idea if he plays on Sunday.

Click to expand...

It isn't wishful thinking. I like Lynch a lot. In fact I really like the Seahawks. I guess time will tell, that is my beliefs at this time and leading into the season and so far it's been the case. There is still a lot of season left to be played.

Click to expand...

It's absolutely wishful thinking on your part. There just isn't enough data to reach that conclusion in any reliable way, and there was no evidence of it before the season. If Marshawn returns and has a big game, this thinking will look pretty silly.