Brian Schottenheimer

TwistedHusky · Jan 17, 2018

I really hope I was right and the problem was Bevell.

Hires like this make me reevaluate and start to fear that the problem with the offense might have been Pete.

If we start seeing crazy moonshot 'splash' plays being attempted repeatedly, we will all know we were duped.

I am skeptically optimistic though, so hopeful we can see even an average offense in the first 3 quarters next year.

This is a team that will have to be great on offense, because the defense simply will not have the great players it did or the players it did will be limited by age/injury etc.

Either leverage the strengths of this offense, or find that we won't be much more than a wildcard team in the future.

We cannot just hope the defense will win the bulk of our games for us with the roster we have.

SoulfishHawk · Jan 17, 2018

Or we could just give the guy a chance, not a down with the team and people seem to already have their minds made up.

RolandDeschain · Jan 17, 2018

SoulfishHawk":wxcjf1qg said:
Or we could just give the guy a chance, not a down with the team and people seem to already have their minds made up.

This thread is not the place for logic.

SoulfishHawk · Jan 17, 2018

Good point :lol:

chris98251 · Jan 17, 2018

So has Brian Schottenheimer and Solaris ever worked together as OC and O line Coach? If not it will be a new formula, we only know what they have done as a result of the team they were on individually. Why the pairing and observations will be interesting.

Seymour · Jan 17, 2018

RolandDeschain":1e0n809j said:
SoulfishHawk":1e0n809j said:

Or we could just give the guy a chance, not a down with the team and people seem to already have their minds made up.

Click to expand...

This thread is not the place for logic.

It's actually more logical to believe that Bevell was doing pretty much what Pete wanted rather than he was operating as a rogue OC doing his own thing.

TwistedHusky · Jan 17, 2018

The problem with logic is that we have to use the data.

The data says that Brian isn't that great of a hire.

Apparently his greatest accomplishment is not completely being terrible with supposedly terrible offensive personnel.

But no real successes.

We can extrapolate and make a suggestion that with better personnel he MIGHT be better. But then again, we supposedly have some terrible offensive personnel too.

This is a hire that will likely end up being exactly what it seems.

Generally, with a few fantastic exceptions, people are what their record says they are.

Bevel was exactly the same guy that Minnesota warned us about. Harvin was too. They didn't change because they played for a different team. They brought the same strengths and weaknesses with them.

Lynch was very different. That gamble worked. But it misses a lot more than it hits. And this team LOVES to bring on people that they feel can succeed here but that failed to succeed somewhere else.

The fact the Rams fans are chortling over this supposed pick makes me worried. But maybe this will be the exception that proves the rule? Doubtful but if we are stuck with it then hope is what we got.

I would rather bring in someone rising with potential and the ability to contribute new ideas/tactics than a nobody with a mediocre resume that hasn't really done much anywhere he landed. But we might apparently be stuck with him.

Nothing about this selection screams SuperBowl or even, ready to get past the Wildcard round (assuming we make the playoffs again). More like 'Tread water so people don't stop watching or blow off renewing season tickets'. But the joke is the NFL also stands for Not For Long, so Win Forever wasn't likely to last anyway.

RolandDeschain · Jan 17, 2018

Seymour":ra6g86wn said:
It's actually more logical to believe that Bevell was doing pretty much what Pete wanted rather than he was operating as a rogue OC doing his own thing.

Actually, it's more logical to believe the truth is between those two extremes.

Seymour · Jan 17, 2018

RolandDeschain":1vzbq8gw said:
Seymour":1vzbq8gw said:

It's actually more logical to believe that Bevell was doing pretty much what Pete wanted rather than he was operating as a rogue OC doing his own thing.

Click to expand...

Actually, it's more logical to believe the truth is between those two extremes.

That is why I said "pretty much" what Pete wants rather than exactly what Pete wants.

SoulfishHawk · Jan 17, 2018

The Truth is out there....

Mulder

chris98251 · Jan 17, 2018

TwistedHusky":n54asckk said:
The problem with logic is that we have to use the data.

The data says that Brian isn't that great of a hire.

Apparently his greatest accomplishment is not completely being terrible with supposedly terrible offensive personnel.

But no real successes.

We can extrapolate and make a suggestion that with better personnel he MIGHT be better. But then again, we supposedly have some terrible offensive personnel too.

This is a hire that will likely end up being exactly what it seems.

Generally, with a few fantastic exceptions, people are what their record says they are.

Bevel was exactly the same guy that Minnesota warned us about. Harvin was too. They didn't change because they played for a different team. They brought the same strengths and weaknesses with them.

Lynch was very different. That gamble worked. But it misses a lot more than it hits. And this team LOVES to bring on people that they feel can succeed here but that failed to succeed somewhere else.

The fact the Rams fans are chortling over this supposed pick makes me worried. But maybe this will be the exception that proves the rule? Doubtful but if we are stuck with it then hope is what we got.

I would rather bring in someone rising with potential and the ability to contribute new ideas/tactics than a nobody with a mediocre resume that hasn't really done much anywhere he landed. But we might apparently be stuck with him.

Nothing about this selection screams SuperBowl or even, ready to get past the Wildcard round (assuming we make the playoffs again). More like 'Tread water so people don't stop watching or blow off renewing season tickets'. But the joke is the NFL also stands for Not For Long, so Win Forever wasn't likely to last anyway.

You can use that logic for not bringing in Pete Carroll also, failed in the NFL, went to the College game and had his pick of talent in the Nation and won with it.

Chemistry of a collective group of people many times shines brighter then the one individual, that's what we have to hope happens here going forward.

Old groups message went stale as the promotions happened and things were not quite the same after each one. Pete is hitting the full reset button here I think. Hard to catch lighting in a bottle once, doing it twice at least you know it can be done.

WindCityHawk · Jan 17, 2018

Who could have been hired to make some of you happy? Seriously.

I agree it would have been fun to roll the dice on an up-and-coming position coach, but that's no guarantee of success.

Experienced, winning coaches don't drop from trees and wait around for job offers. And they don't make lateral moves. If you ever thought a HC cadidate like Josh McDaniels, or even DeFilipo, were going to fill this post, you were never going to be happy.

Spin Doctor · Jan 17, 2018

chris98251":17xvs31l said:
TwistedHusky":17xvs31l said:

The problem with logic is that we have to use the data.

The data says that Brian isn't that great of a hire.

Apparently his greatest accomplishment is not completely being terrible with supposedly terrible offensive personnel.

But no real successes.

We can extrapolate and make a suggestion that with better personnel he MIGHT be better. But then again, we supposedly have some terrible offensive personnel too.

This is a hire that will likely end up being exactly what it seems.

Generally, with a few fantastic exceptions, people are what their record says they are.

Bevel was exactly the same guy that Minnesota warned us about. Harvin was too. They didn't change because they played for a different team. They brought the same strengths and weaknesses with them.

Lynch was very different. That gamble worked. But it misses a lot more than it hits. And this team LOVES to bring on people that they feel can succeed here but that failed to succeed somewhere else.

The fact the Rams fans are chortling over this supposed pick makes me worried. But maybe this will be the exception that proves the rule? Doubtful but if we are stuck with it then hope is what we got.

I would rather bring in someone rising with potential and the ability to contribute new ideas/tactics than a nobody with a mediocre resume that hasn't really done much anywhere he landed. But we might apparently be stuck with him.

Nothing about this selection screams SuperBowl or even, ready to get past the Wildcard round (assuming we make the playoffs again). More like 'Tread water so people don't stop watching or blow off renewing season tickets'. But the joke is the NFL also stands for Not For Long, so Win Forever wasn't likely to last anyway.

Click to expand...

You can use that logic for not bringing in Pete Carroll also, failed in the NFL, went to the College game and had his pick of talent in the Nation and won with it.

Chemistry of a collective group of people many times shines brighter then the one individual, that's what we have to hope happens here going forward.

Old groups message went stale as the promotions happened and things were not quite the same after each one. Pete is hitting the full reset button here I think. Hard to catch lighting in a bottle once, doing it twice at least you know it can be done.

There is a major difference here -- Pete Carroll found success in college, and in the NFL was a well respected DC and DB coach. He had built one of the strongest programs in the nation at the collegiate level, and even brought home a few national championships.

Brian Schottenheimer on the other hand has not shown us even a modicum of success in the NFL, or the collegiate game. He is nothing more than a "yes man" which concerns me greatly, as Pete Carroll is an awful offensive mind. He can identify talent on offense, but his ideas are an old relic from the past. Furthermore, Schottenheimers playbooks are very complex, and often time confuse his players. He also has a tendency to try to attack opponents strengths to "catch them off guard" or use players that are bad at a certain task to do the same thing. We hired an even worse version of Bevell.

hawknation2018 · Jan 17, 2018

Spin Doctor":33esp9ja said:
There is a major difference here -- Pete Carroll found success in college, and in the NFL was a well respected DC and DB coach. He had built one of the strongest programs in the nation at the collegiate level, and even brought home a few national championships.

Brian Schottenheimer on the other hand has not shown us even a modicum of success in the NFL, or the collegiate game. He is nothing more than a "yes man" which concerns me greatly, as Pete Carroll is an awful offensive mind. He can identify talent on offense, but his ideas are an old relic from the past. Furthermore, Schottenheimers playbooks are very complex, and often time confuse his players. He also has a tendency to try to attack opponents strengths to "catch them off guard" or use players that are bad at a certain task to do the same thing. We hired an even worse version of Bevell.

I have to strongly disagree with this. Brian is a GREAT QB Coach. Look what he did with Drew Brees and Andrew Luck.

As an OC, he hasn't had a fair opportunity due to the bad programs & QBs he was coaching for. His play calling in 2009/10 was excellent, despite having Sanchez at QB.

sdog1981 · Jan 17, 2018

hawknation2018":8z3fi0ix said:
I have to strongly disagree with this. Brian is a GREAT QB Coach. Look what he did with Drew Brees and Andrew Luck.

As an OC, he hasn't had a fair opportunity due to the bad programs & QBs he was coaching for. His play calling in 2009/10 was excellent, despite having Sanchez at QB.

He was with Andrew Luck for only one season in 2016 and if you look at the numbers he held back Drew Brees's development to a point that the team used the 1st overall pick in the draft on a QB.

Ad Hawk · Jan 17, 2018

I'm quite confused... If Schottenheimer places a "complex" system in place, is that not similar to, or even the same as, being creative, and thus difficult to defend? Isn't that the exact opposite of Bevell whose routes were so simple and predictable?

Spin Doctor · Jan 17, 2018

hawknation2018":23hx3dpg said:
Spin Doctor":23hx3dpg said:

There is a major difference here -- Pete Carroll found success in college, and in the NFL was a well respected DC and DB coach. He had built one of the strongest programs in the nation at the collegiate level, and even brought home a few national championships.

Brian Schottenheimer on the other hand has not shown us even a modicum of success in the NFL, or the collegiate game. He is nothing more than a "yes man" which concerns me greatly, as Pete Carroll is an awful offensive mind. He can identify talent on offense, but his ideas are an old relic from the past. Furthermore, Schottenheimers playbooks are very complex, and often time confuse his players. He also has a tendency to try to attack opponents strengths to "catch them off guard" or use players that are bad at a certain task to do the same thing. We hired an even worse version of Bevell.

Click to expand...

I have to strongly disagree with this. Brian is a GREAT QB Coach. Look what he did with Drew Brees and Andrew Luck.

As an OC, he hasn't had a fair opportunity due to the bad programs & QBs he was coaching for. His play calling in 2009/10 was excellent, despite having Sanchez at QB.

These "unfair" opportunities seem to follow the man around. Is it the places themselves, or Schottenheimers failure as a coach? There is a bad trend that is going on 10 years now. He has been a coach with the Jets, Rams, and the Georgia Bull Dogs, and in each of these instances his offense has woefully underachieved. Also, your version of what happened in 09/10 was much different than Jets fans:

http://forums.theganggreen.com/threads/ ... mer.89799/

Maybe he keeps taking these opportunities because that is all he can get. He is not a good OC, and quite frankly I think he is a downgrade from Bevell.

hawknation2018 · Jan 17, 2018

Spin Doctor":q5d8953y said:
hawknation2018":q5d8953y said:

Spin Doctor":q5d8953y said:

There is a major difference here -- Pete Carroll found success in college, and in the NFL was a well respected DC and DB coach. He had built one of the strongest programs in the nation at the collegiate level, and even brought home a few national championships.

Brian Schottenheimer on the other hand has not shown us even a modicum of success in the NFL, or the collegiate game. He is nothing more than a "yes man" which concerns me greatly, as Pete Carroll is an awful offensive mind. He can identify talent on offense, but his ideas are an old relic from the past. Furthermore, Schottenheimers playbooks are very complex, and often time confuse his players. He also has a tendency to try to attack opponents strengths to "catch them off guard" or use players that are bad at a certain task to do the same thing. We hired an even worse version of Bevell.

Click to expand...

I have to strongly disagree with this. Brian is a GREAT QB Coach. Look what he did with Drew Brees and Andrew Luck.

As an OC, he hasn't had a fair opportunity due to the bad programs & QBs he was coaching for. His play calling in 2009/10 was excellent, despite having Sanchez at QB.

Click to expand...

These "unfair" opportunities seem to follow the man around. Is it the places themselves, or Schottenheimers failure as a coach? There is a bad trend that is going on 10 years now. He has been a coach with the Jets, Rams, and the Georgia Bull Dogs, and in each of these instances his offense has woefully underachieved. Also, your version of what happened in 09/10 was much different than Jets fans:

http://forums.theganggreen.com/threads/ ... mer.89799/

Maybe he keeps taking these opportunities because that is all he can get. He is not a good OC, and quite frankly I think he is a downgrade from Bevell.

The 2009/10 Jets play calling showed great creativity in mixing the run with the pass. Fans only care about results, not process and circumstances. Sanchez has since proven himself to be an inept QB who was greatly aided by his OC.

sdog1981 · Jan 17, 2018

hawknation2018":2h10grmb said:
Fans only care about results, not process and circumstances. Sanchez has since proven himself to be an inept QB who was greatly aided by his OC.

0-16 Browns feel the same way.

hawknation2018 · Jan 17, 2018

sdog1981":2t8abtnq said:
hawknation2018":2t8abtnq said:

Fans only care about results, not process and circumstances. Sanchez has since proven himself to be an inept QB who was greatly aided by his OC.

Click to expand...

0-16 Browns feel the same way.

No idea of the relevance here. But congrats on being 'pithy.'

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