Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs

Discuss your thoughts about anything draft related. Mocks, College and Pro. Knock yourselves out!!! RATING: PG-13
Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:12 pm
  • http://podcastone.com/Ross-Tucker-Football-Podcast

    If you have some time there is a podcast interview with Cosell where he gives his opinions on the 2014 WR group. This is one of those rare times I actually agree with most of what Cosell thinks (the only whiff is him grading Benjamin above Evans.) He also gave some big shout outs to Moncrief and Abbrederis. Anyway, it's just one guys opinion, thought it was an interesting listen.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 10231
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:28 pm
  • If anyone can offer a cliffnotes version I'd appreciate it.
    User avatar
    theENGLISHseahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 7926
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:13 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:52 pm
  • Damn it ENGLISH! That YOUR job, to give US cliff notes
    "it'd be a newborn deer" - pehawk
    User avatar
    Hawk Strap
    * Handsome *
     
    Posts: 2938
    Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:37 pm
    Location: Tri Cities, WA


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:52 pm
  • Said Kb was a little more athletic and fluid running his routes than Evans. That the draft was really deep so much so that teams will get undrafted receivers that contribute this year and in the future. He really liked Odell Beckham said he was sudden and a great route runner and really liked Martavis Bryant as well. Donte Moncrief was his favorite receiver he felt was being overlooked.
    Natethegreat
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 597
    Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 7:21 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:27 pm
  • Most insightful thing I heard from it was him commenting on Jared Abbrederis' ability to make corners turn their hips. I was just chatting with Scotte the other day wondering why Abbrederis is so consistently open on deep routes.

    He also said a scout he talked to called Moncrief the most exciting/under the radar player in the draft, not just among WRs but among all players. Scout said he got some Demaryius Thomas type vibes from him (I did too). I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it on Moncrief.

    Off topic, watching Moncrief my PC/JS senses tingle big time. I don't know if they take him at #32 but if they trade down into the second I would keep an eye on him.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 10231
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:20 pm
  • I really want the hawks to take abby in the 3rd or 4th but know it will never happen :(
    randomation
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 256
    Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:35 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:18 pm
  • randomation wrote:I really want the hawks to take abby in the 3rd or 4th but know it will never happen :(


    I think if we trade down from #64, he becomes a likely target.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 10231
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:42 pm
  • Ever since we lost Golden Tate I have been going wide receiver crazy. If we don't pick up another one in free agency or draft one in the first round I'm probably going to go nuts. Our WR group worries me right now.
    Image
    User avatar
    Blitzer88
    * NET Eeyore *
     
    Posts: 10816
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:47 am
    Location: Pasco, WA


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:13 am
  • I have been in love with Abrederris for 2 or 3 years now. He's a solid, dependable receiver that the QB can always count on to get open. Kind of like Brandon Stokely.

    I think Kelvin Benjamin is soft and will have a career case of T Rex arms. Please let someone else draft him

    I really like Moncrief ever since I saw him in some random game and was impressed. He has something really great about him, not sure what it is but I don't think "intangibles' quite describes it. It's almost like he was born to play football.

    If we get Beckham in the 1st I would be happy. I think he would be an upgrade over Golden Tate.
    "God Bless the Seattle Seahawks" Cortez Kennedy
    User avatar
    ivotuk
    * NET Nobody *
     
    Posts: 7847
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:29 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:25 am
  • kearly wrote:http://podcastone.com/Ross-Tucker-Football-Podcast

    If you have some time there is a podcast interview with Cosell where he gives his opinions on the 2014 WR group. This is one of those rare times I actually agree with most of what Cosell thinks (the only whiff is him grading Benjamin above Evans.) He also gave some big shout outs to Moncrief and Abbrederis. Anyway, it's just one guys opinion, thought it was an interesting listen.


    I listen to Cowherd on the way to work every morning and he has Cosell on once a week. It seems that every week he has some great break down, then says some shit out of the blue that makes me wonder if I heard him right. But he does it every time and I think it's because he has some old, out of date views on football that he clings to and he pushes some version of it in with the rest of his stuff.

    He tries too hard to be "one of the boys" too when he's on the radio of TV. He won't be until he learns to put his foot down and not let some of those other numbskulls talk over him.

    I think he has some valid stuff though, and his most valuable asset is he looks at players and play differently than everyone else. Maybe that's where his whiffs come from.

    Shit oh dear! Moncrief wears #12! And who is that QB throwing to him? Guy's pretty good.

    Rob Rang on Donte Moncrief

    Moncrief's thick frame, deceptive speed and smooth route-running make him a nightmare for cornerbacks. He does not possess the explosive moves of Southern Cal's Marqise Lee or Clemson's Sammy Watkins but might be a better player than either of them. ... Moncrief tracks the ball well and generally shows excellent hands (one drop vs. Texas), as well as the body control to make the dazzling grab.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/play ... e-moncrief
    "God Bless the Seattle Seahawks" Cortez Kennedy
    User avatar
    ivotuk
    * NET Nobody *
     
    Posts: 7847
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:29 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:35 am
  • To hell with everyone else! I want Jarvis Landry! That guy makes some spectacular catches, with his hands! Looks like he's a 2nd to 3rd round pick but might go even lower because of his poor combine (4.77 40).

    He has 10.25" hands though and is great on 3rd downs. I would really like to see this guy in a Seahawks uniform because he will keep the chains moving.

    http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jar ... id=2543488



    Some good info on him

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1971 ... erformance

    2013 Southeastern Conference Leaders Receiving - On 3rd Down (Jarvis leads all receivers)

    28 catches for 26 1st downs and 474 yards, 16.93 average 6 TDs. That's pretty good considering his team mate was Odell Beckham who was fourth behind Donte Moncrief and Jordan Mathews.

    http://www.cfbstats.com/2013/leader/911 ... ort03.html

    Crap, now I'm going to be up all night looking at receivers, damn you Kearly! Damn you!
    "God Bless the Seattle Seahawks" Cortez Kennedy
    User avatar
    ivotuk
    * NET Nobody *
     
    Posts: 7847
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:29 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:49 am
  • Landry had perhaps the worst combine of any player in NFL draft history. It was really bad, and it wasn't just his 40 time. His bench, and most importantly for Seattle, his vertical and broad jump were terrible. He's undersized with short arms. There is nothing about him that is remotely sparky or seahawky.
    <A>
    <IMG></A>
    User avatar
    McGruff
    * NET Staff Alumni *
    * NET Staff Alumni *
     
    Posts: 1543
    Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:14 am
    Location: Blaine, WA


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:25 am
  • McGruff wrote:Landry had perhaps the worst combine of any player in NFL draft history. It was really bad, and it wasn't just his 40 time. His bench, and most importantly for Seattle, his vertical and broad jump were terrible. He's undersized with short arms. There is nothing about him that is remotely sparky or seahawky.


    I completely agree with everything you said. But I still can't help feel that he's going to have a good NFL career.
    User avatar
    SomersetHawk
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 494
    Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:33 am
    Location: United Kingdom


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:46 am
  • McGruff wrote:Landry had perhaps the worst combine of any player in NFL draft history. It was really bad, and it wasn't just his 40 time. His bench, and most importantly for Seattle, his vertical and broad jump were terrible. He's undersized with short arms. There is nothing about him that is remotely sparky or seahawky.



    He also pulled a hamstring at the combine. I'll be interested in seeing how he does at his pro day. Either way, the "underwear olympics" doesn't make a whole lot of difference where a player is drafted. It's the game film for the most part where teams make their decisions. History has proven time and time again that making decisions based solely on the combine is a big mistake.
    "God Bless the Seattle Seahawks" Cortez Kennedy
    User avatar
    ivotuk
    * NET Nobody *
     
    Posts: 7847
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:29 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:47 am
  • Was anything mentioned of Bruce Ellington? Haven't heard others discuss Ellington. Am I the only one here at .net that is intrigued by this guy? Cousin of Cardinals' Andre Ellington.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-prospe ... --nfl.html

    Ellington lacks great size at 5093 – 197, but he is an excellent athlete. He may have had the best overall receiver workout at the Combine, running 4.45, with jumps of 39.5 and 10’ and a 6.69 three-cone. He also did 15 reps of 225. While not tall, he has long arms and is well built. His lower body is thick and muscular. He looks more like a running back than a receiver. (Sound like anyone the Seahawks just lost in free agency?)

    Ellington is very quick off the line. He easily avoids or fights through jams and gets into his routes quickly. He is still raw as a route runner, but with his great body control and quickness, he is able to get separation on short and long routes. He has very good hands and shows top ability to adjust to the ball. He is effective as both a short and long receiver, and with his top run skills, he can consistently turn a short reception into a long gain. As a kick returner, he shows top instincts and doesn’t dance.

    When you factor in that Ellington has only played two years of college football and never really devoted all his time to the sport, you have to say he has unlimited potential. He still has to develop his route running skills, but he can be a special player in time.
    World Champion
    Image
    Seattle Seahawks
    User avatar
    TeamoftheCentury
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 854
    Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:54 am
    Location: Orlando, FL


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:49 am
  • ivotuk wrote:
    McGruff wrote:Landry had perhaps the worst combine of any player in NFL draft history. It was really bad, and it wasn't just his 40 time. His bench, and most importantly for Seattle, his vertical and broad jump were terrible. He's undersized with short arms. There is nothing about him that is remotely sparky or seahawky.



    He also pulled a hamstring at the combine. I'll be interested in seeing how he does at his pro day. Either way, the "underwear olympics" doesn't make a whole lot of difference where a player is drafted. It's the game film for the most part where teams make their decisions. History has proven time and time again that making decisions based solely on the combine is a big mistake.


    I'll be wwatching his pro day results closely, but its one think to run a bad 40. Its another thing to be historically bad in every single drill.
    <A>
    <IMG></A>
    User avatar
    McGruff
    * NET Staff Alumni *
    * NET Staff Alumni *
     
    Posts: 1543
    Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:14 am
    Location: Blaine, WA


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:57 am
  • kearly wrote:Most insightful thing I heard from it was him commenting on Jared Abbrederis' ability to make corners turn their hips. I was just chatting with Scotte the other day wondering why Abbrederis is so consistently open on deep routes.


    I noted that here during the college season a while back as well. Abbrederis is a wizard at route running. Racial stereotype aside, I called his route precision Largentesque. He ties up corners exquisitely. And you can see by watching him that he sets them up the moment he releases from the line. He knows how to attack a corner before the snap and shows the ability to adjust mid route to gain advantage on a defender.

    He strikes me as a player who is going to incorporate the subtleties of receiving at the NFL level better than any other prospect in this draft. He will never have the physical profile of those of his class -- but he's not mundane physically either. He just looks like a guy who will always have a trick he can use to get clean at the next level. Someone that shouldn't always be that open but just is.

    Truth be told, I can't imagine how good he can be playing against Sherman and this secondary every day in practice. To me, he's kind of the Sherman of this WR class. Not great physically but more than adequate. Scary smart and savvy. With a lot of attitude. A guy who will understand the value of work having been a walk on at Madison.

    I wrote the following in February and it's really eerie how close this offseason has followed thus far:


    ....And central to that sustained excellence, is spending money wisely. It is not a sin to spend big contracts on players who are special. Wilson. Thomas. Sherman. Harvin. Those are all special players.

    Where teams get into cap trouble, is when they have to pay good players their full market value. Tate. Baldwin. Miller. Wright. Irvin. Giacomini. These guys are good productive players. But the delta between them and a good draft choice is manageable.

    Tate is going to command 5m or more next year. Abbrederis is essentially a Tate if I've ever seen one. That's a huge savings even in round 2 over what we'd pay Tate. At some point, we have to identify the players we can reload with rookie talent. The most assured way to do that, is to identify the players we can't replace and pay them. Then replace the ones we can.

    Taking an Abbrederis in round 2 would be like getting Abbrederis, Baldwin and Michael Bennett instead of simply resigning Tate. The difference in salary between Jared and Golden is going to be close to 4.5m per year. That would be a huge reload in my estimation. And definitely worth the spend of a #64 overall.

    Would it improve the team? No. It would probably be a regression initially. But this team is going to have to pick and choose which second contracts it opts for if they want to keep the core of the team intact. That has to start this year, not next. I would heavily endorse selecting Abbrederis even if we were to select an X receiver in the first round (a vacancy we all expect coming). Because it would mean allowing the team to reload with similar quality to what we have. And at this stage of our team's rebuild -- we have to start looking at maintenance and staying young. Not simply adding what we don't have (which is very little).

    And at #64 overall for a team this good, that's a very tangible win. Abbrederis is worth the pick at #64 for us. He is very similar to Tate in most respects. There are few prospects in this entire draft class who are so similarly matched.

    The fact will be, we will have already made the determination on whether we keep Tate or not well before the draft. We won't select Abbrederis if we resign Tate. We will reload elsewhere. But if he walks in UFA, then I'd book that selection in the second the moment the ink dries. The tea leaves should be pretty easy to read come March.


    Of course we could easily move back and not spend #64 on him.
    Attyla the Hawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 666
    Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:38 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:17 am
  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    kearly wrote:Most insightful thing I heard from it was him commenting on Jared Abbrederis' ability to make corners turn their hips. I was just chatting with Scotte the other day wondering why Abbrederis is so consistently open on deep routes.


    I noted that here during the college season a while back as well. Abbrederis is a wizard at route running. Racial stereotype aside, I called his route precision Largentesque. He ties up corners exquisitely. And you can see by watching him that he sets them up the moment he releases from the line. He knows how to attack a corner before the snap and shows the ability to adjust mid route to gain advantage on a defender.

    He strikes me as a player who is going to incorporate the subtleties of receiving at the NFL level better than any other prospect in this draft. He will never have the physical profile of those of his class -- but he's not mundane physically either. He just looks like a guy who will always have a trick he can use to get clean at the next level. Someone that shouldn't always be that open but just is.

    Truth be told, I can't imagine how good he can be playing against Sherman and this secondary every day in practice. To me, he's kind of the Sherman of this WR class. Not great physically but more than adequate. Scary smart and savvy. With a lot of attitude. A guy who will understand the value of work having been a walk on at Madison.

    I wrote the following in February and it's really eerie how close this offseason has followed thus far:


    ....And central to that sustained excellence, is spending money wisely. It is not a sin to spend big contracts on players who are special. Wilson. Thomas. Sherman. Harvin. Those are all special players.

    Where teams get into cap trouble, is when they have to pay good players their full market value. Tate. Baldwin. Miller. Wright. Irvin. Giacomini. These guys are good productive players. But the delta between them and a good draft choice is manageable.

    Tate is going to command 5m or more next year. Abbrederis is essentially a Tate if I've ever seen one. That's a huge savings even in round 2 over what we'd pay Tate. At some point, we have to identify the players we can reload with rookie talent. The most assured way to do that, is to identify the players we can't replace and pay them. Then replace the ones we can.

    Taking an Abbrederis in round 2 would be like getting Abbrederis, Baldwin and Michael Bennett instead of simply resigning Tate. The difference in salary between Jared and Golden is going to be close to 4.5m per year. That would be a huge reload in my estimation. And definitely worth the spend of a #64 overall.

    Would it improve the team? No. It would probably be a regression initially. But this team is going to have to pick and choose which second contracts it opts for if they want to keep the core of the team intact. That has to start this year, not next. I would heavily endorse selecting Abbrederis even if we were to select an X receiver in the first round (a vacancy we all expect coming). Because it would mean allowing the team to reload with similar quality to what we have. And at this stage of our team's rebuild -- we have to start looking at maintenance and staying young. Not simply adding what we don't have (which is very little).

    And at #64 overall for a team this good, that's a very tangible win. Abbrederis is worth the pick at #64 for us. He is very similar to Tate in most respects. There are few prospects in this entire draft class who are so similarly matched.

    The fact will be, we will have already made the determination on whether we keep Tate or not well before the draft. We won't select Abbrederis if we resign Tate. We will reload elsewhere. But if he walks in UFA, then I'd book that selection in the second the moment the ink dries. The tea leaves should be pretty easy to read come March.


    Of course we could easily move back and not spend #64 on him.



    Thanks for the insight. Who would you compare him to in the NFL outside of the Hawks?
    User avatar
    EverydayImRusselin
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 722
    Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:38 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:06 am
  • I love me some Moncrief.
    P-Rich fo life
    User avatar
    ImTheScientist
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2384
    Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:14 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:31 am
  • EverydayImRusselin wrote:

    Thanks for the insight. Who would you compare him to in the NFL outside of the Hawks?


    I think he compares almost identically to Antonio Brown (2010) out of Central Michigan.

    Both physically and skill set wise, they are remarkably similar. Brown is an outstanding route runner and was so even in college. In today's NFL -- if we talking quality of route running and the subtle skills a WR can use to get open outside of physical attributes -- they are virtual clones.

    Both weighed in an under 190 lbs. Both in the low 4.5 range. Abbrederis' explosion/agility scores are superior by a pretty solid margin. He is also 3 inches taller, but neither with incredible length (31" arms).

    Both players with exceptional ball skills and strong hands.

    Really, they are very very similar types of prospects. Brown went in the 6th round. He was also the second half of a double dip into the WR pool by Pittsburgh that year. If he were redrafted, he'd be a first round pick quite easily. Like Abbrederis, he fell because of generic 'upside' limitations that drop good players far below their real quality every single year. And the fact he played in a small school conference suppressed his stock by a couple rounds on top of that.

    Abbrederis could easily be Antonio Brown. Or a player very close to it.

    Something else to consider, is that Abbrederis is a very accomplished punt returner. A role that is currently unfilled for Seattle.

    Other players who similarly exhibit a strong ability to use subtle/savvy tricks to get open: Deion Branch, Brian Hartline, Wes Welker and Larry Fitzgerald. I didn't necessarily compare Abbrederis to those guys, because I didn't find them similar in other aspects like Brown. Welker is much quicker and is a slot guy. But Welker's toolbag to get separation at the very last moment is something that I see Abbrederis learning to do and expect he will master it in the same way.

    Fitzgerald is a masterful route runner, but he also has physical tools that Abbrederis will never have. However if I limit the comparison to just the ability to run routes in a way to gain advantage over defenders -- then Abbrederis and Fitz match very well.

    Ultimately I see Antonio Brown when I see Abbrederis. That's no chopped liver.
    Attyla the Hawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 666
    Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:38 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:34 am
  • Abbrederis has some amount of dispute about his concussion history. He says one, some are claiming 3 or 4. It could make him slide further.
    SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
    User avatar
    Scottemojo
    *Scott of Smacksville*
    *Scott of Smacksville*
     
    Posts: 10505
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:38 am
  • See the link I posted on Ellington. There's a report on the same page about Abbrederis. I like both him and Moncrief (mentioned by Kearly in this thread.) I see and agree with the approach that the Seahawks are likely taking. So, we're not going to see a WR taken in the first round. That would make letting Tate walk make less sense. So, it will be interesting to see if the Hawks are even targeting a WR in the earlier rounds and even if they are seeing that as a position of need.

    They've got some good talent already and interesting prospects for competition.

    Could they being looking at keeping just 4 receivers (Harvin, Kearse, Baldwin, Lockette) and going with more TE's since they are supposedly going to sign Finley? Both Finley and Willson are like TE/WR tweeners. Walters was on the active roster a bit in 2013. Bates has stuck around. I'm interested to see if he gets into the action a bit more. Recently signed Matthews would likely have to beat out Lockette, which might be a tough task given Lockette's special teams ability. Perhaps Matthews and Clark could be destined for the PS. I know, still to early to call any of that.
    World Champion
    Image
    Seattle Seahawks
    User avatar
    TeamoftheCentury
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 854
    Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:54 am
    Location: Orlando, FL


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:39 am
  • EverydayImRusselin wrote:

    Thanks for the insight. Who would you compare him to in the NFL outside of the Hawks?


    And combo of Steve Largent, Joe Jurevicious, Brandon Stokley and Ed McAffrey . . . :)
    <A>
    <IMG></A>
    User avatar
    McGruff
    * NET Staff Alumni *
    * NET Staff Alumni *
     
    Posts: 1543
    Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:14 am
    Location: Blaine, WA


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:42 am
  • Scottemojo wrote:Abbrederis has some amount of dispute about his concussion history. He says one, some are claiming 3 or 4. It could make him slide further.


    Yeah I'm hearing rumblings about that as well. Hard to tell from the outside but I'm sure it'll factor in.
    Attyla the Hawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 666
    Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:38 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:56 am
  • TeamoftheCentury wrote:Was anything mentioned of Bruce Ellington? Haven't heard others discuss Ellington. Am I the only one here at .net that is intrigued by this guy? Cousin of Cardinals' Andre Ellington.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-prospe ... --nfl.html

    Ellington lacks great size at 5093 – 197, but he is an excellent athlete. He may have had the best overall receiver workout at the Combine, running 4.45, with jumps of 39.5 and 10’ and a 6.69 three-cone. He also did 15 reps of 225. While not tall, he has long arms and is well built. His lower body is thick and muscular. He looks more like a running back than a receiver. (Sound like anyone the Seahawks just lost in free agency?)

    Ellington is very quick off the line. He easily avoids or fights through jams and gets into his routes quickly. He is still raw as a route runner, but with his great body control and quickness, he is able to get separation on short and long routes. He has very good hands and shows top ability to adjust to the ball. He is effective as both a short and long receiver, and with his top run skills, he can consistently turn a short reception into a long gain. As a kick returner, he shows top instincts and doesn’t dance.

    When you factor in that Ellington has only played two years of college football and never really devoted all his time to the sport, you have to say he has unlimited potential. He still has to develop his route running skills, but he can be a special player in time.


    How tall is Ellington? Looking at the bolded above I thought you were saying 5'9" and the first person I thought of was Darren Sproles.

    NM http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/play ... -ellington
    "God Bless the Seattle Seahawks" Cortez Kennedy
    User avatar
    ivotuk
    * NET Nobody *
     
    Posts: 7847
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:29 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:28 am
  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Abbrederis has some amount of dispute about his concussion history. He says one, some are claiming 3 or 4. It could make him slide further.


    Yeah I'm hearing rumblings about that as well. Hard to tell from the outside but I'm sure it'll factor in.


    Yeah, I was a bit concerned about his wear and tear...he's a redshirt Senior and he plays hard every down. Hopefully he won't be Ryan Swope 2.0. If we get him in 4th+ round I'd be happy.
    HunnyBadger
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 350
    Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:26 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:40 am
  • For me, Odell Beckham is too short. He checks all the boxes in terms of speed and skills, but we already have smaller WR's- guys like Quincy Enunwa and Jordan Matthews are who I have floating through my dreams.

    Even Abbrederis isn't THAT tall.
    "Your Seattle Seahawks, 2013-14 World Champions"
    Adopt A Rookie 2014-15 - Kevin Pierre-Louis
    Adopt-A-Red-Shirt 2014-15 Christine Micheal
    Previously known as megamanflx1
    User avatar
    Seahawkscrazy
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 960
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:59 pm
    Location: Dallas, TX


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:43 am
  • Consider my want for Moncrief growing. Here's what Cosell had to say more specifically about him (from Rotoworld)
    NFL Films' Greg Cosell stated on the Ross Tucker Podcast that he sees "style" similarities between Ole Miss WR Donte Moncrief, and Demaryius Thomas and Josh Gordon on Moncrief's college tape.
    Cosell made it clear he wasn't wholeheartedly comparing Moncrief to Thomas and Gordon, but did liken their playing styles. "I really, really like this kid," Cosell said. "He's a big, physical kid who can run." Cosell also hinted he sees Moncrief as talented enough to be a "No. 1" NFL receiver. Moncrief measured 6-foot-2, 221 at February's Scouting Combine. His official forty time was 4.40.


    /runs away from anti-Cosell clan.
    User avatar
    GCrow
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 678
    Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:05 am
    Location: Canada


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:56 am
  • BTW, Abbrederis only benched 220 4x at the combine...at 195lbs, that's pretty weak.
    "Your Seattle Seahawks, 2013-14 World Champions"
    Adopt A Rookie 2014-15 - Kevin Pierre-Louis
    Adopt-A-Red-Shirt 2014-15 Christine Micheal
    Previously known as megamanflx1
    User avatar
    Seahawkscrazy
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 960
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:59 pm
    Location: Dallas, TX


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:06 am
  • GCrow wrote:Consider my want for Moncrief growing. Here's what Cosell had to say more specifically about him (from Rotoworld)
    NFL Films' Greg Cosell stated on the Ross Tucker Podcast that he sees "style" similarities between Ole Miss WR Donte Moncrief, and Demaryius Thomas and Josh Gordon on Moncrief's college tape.
    Cosell made it clear he wasn't wholeheartedly comparing Moncrief to Thomas and Gordon, but did liken their playing styles. "I really, really like this kid," Cosell said. "He's a big, physical kid who can run." Cosell also hinted he sees Moncrief as talented enough to be a "No. 1" NFL receiver. Moncrief measured 6-foot-2, 221 at February's Scouting Combine. His official forty time was 4.40.


    /runs away from anti-Cosell clan.


    He is by far and away the WR I want.
    P-Rich fo life
    User avatar
    ImTheScientist
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2384
    Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:14 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:14 am
  • Scottemojo wrote:Abbrederis has some amount of dispute about his concussion history. He says one, some are claiming 3 or 4. It could make him slide further.


    Like how Robert Turbin can't run 15 yards without getting an obligatory holding penalty, it seems I can't find a mid-round pigment-impaired WR to love without him being doomed by concussions.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 10231
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:19 am
  • kearly wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Abbrederis has some amount of dispute about his concussion history. He says one, some are claiming 3 or 4. It could make him slide further.


    Like how Robert Turbin can't run 15 yards without getting an obligatory holding penalty, it seems I can't find a mid-round pigment-impaired WR to love without him being doomed by concussions.


    As someone who is super pigment-impaired myself, it is an issue with me from a WR standpoint. Personally, I don't like pigment-impaired WR's......even if Abbrederis wasn't pigment-impaired, I wouldn't want him on the team.
    P-Rich fo life
    User avatar
    ImTheScientist
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2384
    Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:14 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:02 pm
  • Seahawkscrazy wrote:BTW, Abbrederis only benched 220 4x at the combine...at 195lbs, that's pretty weak.

    Yeah, doesn't bother me a bit. He may lack in the weight room for now, but I would suspect a walk on who had that kind of impact doesn't lack work ethic. Sid put on something like 10 or 15 pounds of muscle with our training staff. So can Abbrederis.

    I know my biggest attraction to Abbrederis is that he shared a brain with Wilson when Wilson would scramble. If we could get a guy like that later in the draft, it would be a nice add.
    SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
    User avatar
    Scottemojo
    *Scott of Smacksville*
    *Scott of Smacksville*
     
    Posts: 10505
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:57 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Abbrederis has some amount of dispute about his concussion history. He says one, some are claiming 3 or 4. It could make him slide further.


    Like how Robert Turbin can't run 15 yards without getting an obligatory holding penalty, it seems I can't find a mid-round pigment-impaired WR to love without him being doomed by concussions.


    Ah, Ryan Swope. Poor guy. It's a shame Stave tried to get Abby killed, at least Russell is a little more WR friendly, in fact I can only think of a couple of throws where he's led a receiver into brick wall.

    ImTheScientist wrote:
    As someone who is super pigment-impaired myself, it is an issue with me from a WR standpoint. Personally, I don't like pigment-impaired WR's......even if Abbrederis wasn't pigment-impaired, I wouldn't want him on the team.


    Please expand. A 'non pigment-impaired' Jared Abbrederis would be a first rounder. Your post (not you) is racist. Play around with the hue/saturation and rewatch his tape, the guy can play, and what more, the guy can play with Russell. There's plenty of guys I wouldn't want on the team, I'm just intrigued as to why you wouldn't want Jared Abbrederis?
    User avatar
    SomersetHawk
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 494
    Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:33 am
    Location: United Kingdom


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:37 pm
  • ivotuk wrote:
    TeamoftheCentury wrote:Was anything mentioned of Bruce Ellington? Haven't heard others discuss Ellington. Am I the only one here at .net that is intrigued by this guy? Cousin of Cardinals' Andre Ellington.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-prospe ... --nfl.html

    Ellington lacks great size at 5093 – 197, but he is an excellent athlete. He may have had the best overall receiver workout at the Combine, running 4.45, with jumps of 39.5 and 10’ and a 6.69 three-cone. He also did 15 reps of 225. While not tall, he has long arms and is well built. His lower body is thick and muscular. He looks more like a running back than a receiver. (Sound like anyone the Seahawks just lost in free agency?)

    Ellington is very quick off the line. He easily avoids or fights through jams and gets into his routes quickly. He is still raw as a route runner, but with his great body control and quickness, he is able to get separation on short and long routes. He has very good hands and shows top ability to adjust to the ball. He is effective as both a short and long receiver, and with his top run skills, he can consistently turn a short reception into a long gain. As a kick returner, he shows top instincts and doesn’t dance.

    When you factor in that Ellington has only played two years of college football and never really devoted all his time to the sport, you have to say he has unlimited potential. He still has to develop his route running skills, but he can be a special player in time.


    How tall is Ellington? Looking at the bolded above I thought you were saying 5'9" and the first person I thought of was Darren Sproles.

    NM http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/play ... -ellington

    Yup. 5'9" http://www.hogshaven.com/2014/2/23/5441 ... lington-wr
    He's a player. Tough as nails. Take him.
    World Champion
    Image
    Seattle Seahawks
    User avatar
    TeamoftheCentury
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 854
    Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:54 am
    Location: Orlando, FL


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:41 pm
  • SomersetHawk wrote:
    kearly wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Abbrederis has some amount of dispute about his concussion history. He says one, some are claiming 3 or 4. It could make him slide further.


    Like how Robert Turbin can't run 15 yards without getting an obligatory holding penalty, it seems I can't find a mid-round pigment-impaired WR to love without him being doomed by concussions.


    Ah, Ryan Swope. Poor guy. It's a shame Stave tried to get Abby killed, at least Russell is a little more WR friendly, in fact I can only think of a couple of throws where he's led a receiver into brick wall.

    ImTheScientist wrote:
    As someone who is super pigment-impaired myself, it is an issue with me from a WR standpoint. Personally, I don't like pigment-impaired WR's......even if Abbrederis wasn't pigment-impaired, I wouldn't want him on the team.


    Please expand. A 'non pigment-impaired' Jared Abbrederis would be a first rounder. Your post (not you) is racist. Play around with the hue/saturation and rewatch his tape, the guy can play, and what more, the guy can play with Russell. There's plenty of guys I wouldn't want on the team, I'm just intrigued as to why you wouldn't want Jared Abbrederis?


    I guess we have to agree to disagree. I don't even see a 2nd rounder regardless of pigmentation. I don't want him on the team because he is just a guy. I guess if we got him in the 6th or 7th I would be fine with it because I can see value in that. I don't want him on the team as a 1st-5th round pick.
    P-Rich fo life
    User avatar
    ImTheScientist
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2384
    Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:14 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:05 pm
  • ImTheScientist wrote:
    SomersetHawk wrote:
    kearly wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Abbrederis has some amount of dispute about his concussion history. He says one, some are claiming 3 or 4. It could make him slide further.


    Like how Robert Turbin can't run 15 yards without getting an obligatory holding penalty, it seems I can't find a mid-round pigment-impaired WR to love without him being doomed by concussions.


    Ah, Ryan Swope. Poor guy. It's a shame Stave tried to get Abby killed, at least Russell is a little more WR friendly, in fact I can only think of a couple of throws where he's led a receiver into brick wall.

    ImTheScientist wrote:
    As someone who is super pigment-impaired myself, it is an issue with me from a WR standpoint. Personally, I don't like pigment-impaired WR's......even if Abbrederis wasn't pigment-impaired, I wouldn't want him on the team.


    Please expand. A 'non pigment-impaired' Jared Abbrederis would be a first rounder. Your post (not you) is racist. Play around with the hue/saturation and rewatch his tape, the guy can play, and what more, the guy can play with Russell. There's plenty of guys I wouldn't want on the team, I'm just intrigued as to why you wouldn't want Jared Abbrederis?


    I guess we have to agree to disagree. I don't even see a 2nd rounder regardless of pigmentation. I don't want him on the team because he is just a guy. I guess if we got him in the 6th or 7th I would be fine with it because I can see value in that. I don't want him on the team as a 1st-5th round pick.


    I am biased but honestly with an actual QB Abby is likely an AA his speed and route running allow him to get open pretty much every play then its just a matter or whether stave overthrows him underthrows him or makes him make a crazy catch and take a massive hit in the process sigh.
    randomation
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 256
    Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:35 pm


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:10 pm
  • TeamoftheCentury wrote:Was anything mentioned of Bruce Ellington? Haven't heard others discuss Ellington. Am I the only one here at .net that is intrigued by this guy?


    No you are not. I mentioned Ellington to Scotte in a PM just a few days ago. Ran across his stuff at random on a draft site, he's extremely "Seahawky" and has a lot of similarities to Golden Tate. Definitely keeping an eye on him, but the success of his cousin could help him get drafted before our 4th rounder.

    McGruff wrote:And combo of Steve Largent, Joe Jurevicious, Brandon Stokley and Ed McAffrey . . . :)


    Toss in some Jordy Nelson and Wes Welker for good measure. Maybe some Eric Decker too, but go easy on the Riley Cooper.

    GCrow wrote:/runs away from anti-Cosell clan.


    Cosell may have some major blind spots, but personally I agreed with 95% of his take on the WR group. Moncrief is hardly a slam dunk but he's an exciting dude. Seems like a guy Seattle would rate really high too. He also really likes Bryant which I get. I think Bryant is Stephen Hill 2.0, probably a guy that will take a $1 million check and be happy with that and never grow, but if someone can motivate him he could be a dominant #1 WR.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 10231
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:57 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    TeamoftheCentury wrote:Was anything mentioned of Bruce Ellington? Haven't heard others discuss Ellington. Am I the only one here at .net that is intrigued by this guy?


    No you are not. I mentioned Ellington to Scotte in a PM just a few days ago. Ran across his stuff at random on a draft site, he's extremely "Seahawky" and has a lot of similarities to Golden Tate. Definitely keeping an eye on him, but the success of his cousin could help him get drafted before our 4th rounder.

    Thanks for the response. Good to hear you guys have discussed. Wonder if his 5'9" height might be enough to keep him in the 4th round range (balancing out the potential success by association / cousin.) Or, maybe the Hawks trade down out of the 1st round.

    Of course, Ellington is just one good prospect. Just was identifying him / getting his name into the mix. I know there's the talk of getting that taller receiver. But, doesn't seem like JS/PC are into forcing things like that. Just get players who can play and see how they fit. Misfits R Us.
    World Champion
    Image
    Seattle Seahawks
    User avatar
    TeamoftheCentury
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 854
    Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:54 am
    Location: Orlando, FL


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:17 am
  • TeamoftheCentury wrote:
    kearly wrote:
    TeamoftheCentury wrote:Was anything mentioned of Bruce Ellington? Haven't heard others discuss Ellington. Am I the only one here at .net that is intrigued by this guy?


    No you are not. I mentioned Ellington to Scotte in a PM just a few days ago. Ran across his stuff at random on a draft site, he's extremely "Seahawky" and has a lot of similarities to Golden Tate. Definitely keeping an eye on him, but the success of his cousin could help him get drafted before our 4th rounder.

    Thanks for the response. Good to hear you guys have discussed. Wonder if his 5'9" height might be enough to keep him in the 4th round range (balancing out the potential success by association / cousin.) Or, maybe the Hawks trade down out of the 1st round.

    Of course, Ellington is just one good prospect. Just was identifying him / getting his name into the mix. I know there's the talk of getting that taller receiver. But, doesn't seem like JS/PC are into forcing things like that. Just get players who can play and see how they fit. Misfits R Us.


    Once a player is 6'2" and under, he's not really a big receiver anymore. Jermaine Kearse is 6'2" but he's much more like 5'10" guys like Golden Tate or Doug Baldwin than he is to 6'4" Sidney Rice. If you are between 5'9" and 6'2", I would say weight is what you should really look at when determining size. Ellington is pretty bulky, he's not a guy who's small despite being short.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 10231
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:29 am
  • kearly wrote:
    TeamoftheCentury wrote:
    kearly wrote:
    TeamoftheCentury wrote:Was anything mentioned of Bruce Ellington? Haven't heard others discuss Ellington. Am I the only one here at .net that is intrigued by this guy?


    No you are not. I mentioned Ellington to Scotte in a PM just a few days ago. Ran across his stuff at random on a draft site, he's extremely "Seahawky" and has a lot of similarities to Golden Tate. Definitely keeping an eye on him, but the success of his cousin could help him get drafted before our 4th rounder.

    Thanks for the response. Good to hear you guys have discussed. Wonder if his 5'9" height might be enough to keep him in the 4th round range (balancing out the potential success by association / cousin.) Or, maybe the Hawks trade down out of the 1st round.

    Of course, Ellington is just one good prospect. Just was identifying him / getting his name into the mix. I know there's the talk of getting that taller receiver. But, doesn't seem like JS/PC are into forcing things like that. Just get players who can play and see how they fit. Misfits R Us.


    Once a player is 6'2" and under, he's not really a big receiver anymore. Jermaine Kearse is 6'2" but he's much more like 5'10" guys like Golden Tate or Doug Baldwin than he is to 6'4" Sidney Rice. If you are between 5'9" and 6'2", I would say weight is what you should really look at when determining size. Ellington is pretty bulky, he's not a guy who's small despite being short.


    Kearse is 6'1".
    P-Rich fo life
    User avatar
    ImTheScientist
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2384
    Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:14 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:20 am
  • kearly wrote:
    TeamoftheCentury wrote:
    kearly wrote:
    TeamoftheCentury wrote:Was anything mentioned of Bruce Ellington? Haven't heard others discuss Ellington. Am I the only one here at .net that is intrigued by this guy?


    No you are not. I mentioned Ellington to Scotte in a PM just a few days ago. Ran across his stuff at random on a draft site, he's extremely "Seahawky" and has a lot of similarities to Golden Tate. Definitely keeping an eye on him, but the success of his cousin could help him get drafted before our 4th rounder.

    Thanks for the response. Good to hear you guys have discussed. Wonder if his 5'9" height might be enough to keep him in the 4th round range (balancing out the potential success by association / cousin.) Or, maybe the Hawks trade down out of the 1st round.

    Of course, Ellington is just one good prospect. Just was identifying him / getting his name into the mix. I know there's the talk of getting that taller receiver. But, doesn't seem like JS/PC are into forcing things like that. Just get players who can play and see how they fit. Misfits R Us.


    Once a player is 6'2" and under, he's not really a big receiver anymore. Jermaine Kearse is 6'2" but he's much more like 5'10" guys like Golden Tate or Doug Baldwin than he is to 6'4" Sidney Rice. If you are between 5'9" and 6'2", I would say weight is what you should really look at when determining size. Ellington is pretty bulky, he's not a guy who's small despite being short.


    Yeah, good points and I had both read and observed that as well. I guess sometimes the pre-draft talk is about trying to get a player drafted and minimize potential concerns. But, in this case... when it's said that Ellington plays bigger than he is, that's truly the case. He was a high school QB as well. I think he could contribute a variety of ways (not at QB... just that he's athletic and has been utilized out of the backfield at South Carolina.) The more a player can do...
    World Champion
    Image
    Seattle Seahawks
    User avatar
    TeamoftheCentury
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 854
    Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:54 am
    Location: Orlando, FL


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:25 pm
  • I finally listened to this today.

    Fast forward to 28:30. Cosell is asked to name some of the players he's "missed" on. He then spends the next few minutes saying it's a great question, that he isn't an expert on guards and that there's always a reason (an excuse) for why he wasn't actually wrong. Tucker presses him, "Right... but any names come to mind?" (you know, to actually answer the question). He then answers by saying quarterbacks working in different schemes work out because they have great defenses.

    Question. Dodged. He didn't offer ONE name despite being asked twice.

    Earlier he and Tucker are discussing receivers. Tucker says some guys are just good at getting open. Cosell says he disagrees, and that guys have an innate ability to get open. Tucker points out that's what he was saying -- innate = natural ability. Cosell then says he means receivers can be coached so that getting open becomes innate. You can't beat those players who have natural ability coached into them...

    Sorry, but it's the same every time with this guy. Empty words and a load of backslapping from the person talking to him.

    Never has a reputation been so undeserved.
    User avatar
    theENGLISHseahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 7926
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:13 am


Re: Greg Cosell on 2014 WRs
Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:35 am
  • Have to agree.

    Some people have trouble grasping the reality that we don't know everything. They get caught up in making absolute statements and labeling players. It's human nature to a point. As draftniks -- we all miss on guys every single year. But he doesn't show any ability to concede when he's missed on his evaluations. And instead simply makes excuses to justify why he was 'right' to begin with.

    It's one thing to stick to your guns. It's another to contrive answers to demonstrate you are infallible. Cosell doesn't ever think he's wrong even when he so miserably is.

    I find I have to really work hard to find the gems of insight from him because of this. He does raise good points frequently. But it's just such a chore to do so with him.
    Attyla the Hawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 666
    Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:38 pm




It is currently Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:33 am

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE NCAA FOOTBALL & PRO DRAFT FORUM ]




Information
  • Who is online
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests