You guys crack me up

[strohmin]

RW needs to go? And bring in who? Name me one QB in the league that could function behind this turnstile of an O line and under our coaching and succeed as much as Wilson has. Just one, I'll wait...

Do you realize how hard it is to find a franchise qb, hell it took us from 1976 to 2011. That's 35 years. And please don't say Hassleback. He was good , but he was no Aaron Roger's or Tom Brady.

I don't think some of you are thinking this through. Wilson is not broken, nor is he bad. First off he's still hurt, and he is playing in a system that is not conducive to his style of play, and does not put him in positions to succeed near often enough.

Why can't this coaching staff understand that 3rd and longs are a death sentence for this offense? Why can't they develope a real screen game? Why can't they stop running on 2nd and longs? At least they didn't call a bubble screen, or did they?

I mean the list goes on. I said it before and I'll say it again, put Wilson in good system behind a real O line, then will you see what he's capable of. To be honest I feel sorry for him wasting his career under Pete. Ya he's rich but he wants that legacy tag, and he's not going to get it under Carroll.

My problem isnt Russ as a QB. It's that he no longer works with Carroll. I think Carroll and Russ can both be great again but just not with eachother. One of them has to go.

 

[Rat]

Penny's ran for over 100 yards twice in the past three weeks, and the O-line had their best pass pro game in almost two years against the Rams.

Stop making excuses for Russell. He has plenty of talent around him to not be playing as poorly as he's played the past year.

You don't want him gone, fine. I get it, it's a risky move.

But enough already with the excuses. He's stunk. Period.

Like I said, get rid of him and replace him with another QB and enjoy the results. Yeah, he's played bad for a year and half now. He can no longer overcome Carrolls way of things. Is that his fault or Petes? Good luck to the front office in finding another QB that can.

Speaking of Penny, I fully expect him to get a nice new contract if Pete stays. Nevermind that he'll be injured through almost all of it, but hey, he ran for 100 yards twice in three weeks right?

Can't overcome Carroll's way of things? Carroll's way of things would have been to throw that ball OB instead of taking a sack there...and settle for a FG. He decided NOT to go with Carroll's way of things...so you tell me...is that his fault or Pete's?

Carrolls way of things are why the teams in the predicament thats it in to begin with. Wilson has been conditioned by Pete Ball for so many years now that he's broken. Keep the games close, dont throw over the middle due to turnovers, run for your life due to crap lines and be expected to make plays while doing it, live and die by the run and chunk plays even if they arent working, rely on the defense that hasent been good for years now, and pull rabbits out of the hat in the 4th to somehow win games they should have no business winning. Like I said, no its not working anymore, and good luck finding a QB that can make it work, because its not going to happen. Who do you replace? A fossil thats never going to change or a generational player that cant work within the grey haired guys confines anymore?

So should Wilson have thrown the ball out of bounds or checked down to Dallas,,,,sure, but he was never conditioned to do that. It has always been about making plays because he has always had to. He took a sack but it was still a very makeable kick that Myers just missed. Oh well.

This doesn't really make sense. You claim Wilson has been "conditioned by Pete Ball" and imply that it's overly conservative. And then you say he didn't make the conservative play on that third down (check down or throw away), because he was never conditioned to do that.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Is Russell that hamstrung by Pete? oh hell no. He is simply not executing the individual plays at a level expected of a top5 QB. He had all day to throw yesterday, for the most part. I was there and watched and he has guys open- and he hit check-downs great yesterday. He was inaccurate- noticeably less accurate than Foles. He just doesn't look to be executing at the highest level consistently. And top5 QBs should be doing that on days when we could essentially run the ball at will (24/170/7.1). The decision to take the sack there happens so often it makes me sick. That is NOT Pete Ball- that is Russell and his ego on full display.

I hear you and agree with you for the most part. No Russ isnt playing like a top 5 QB and hasent for awhile now, but its sad that that is what it takes for the team to be successful. I'm admitting he's broken, but the guy who broke him isnt the person thats going to fix him either. Yeah he takes a lot of sacks because he has always had to run away from the pressure. Its not his ego, its the only way he knows how because hes had to do that his entire career.

Again, the big question is who do you get rid of, a QB that has been brilliant for most of his career that could possibly be so again with different leadership or a coach that needs HOF caliber play from the QB position to succeed in which the team is guaranteed not to get again?

 

[pittpnthrs]

Like I said, get rid of him and replace him with another QB and enjoy the results. Yeah, he's played bad for a year and half now. He can no longer overcome Carrolls way of things. Is that his fault or Petes? Good luck to the front office in finding another QB that can.

Speaking of Penny, I fully expect him to get a nice new contract if Pete stays. Nevermind that he'll be injured through almost all of it, but hey, he ran for 100 yards twice in three weeks right?

Can't overcome Carroll's way of things? Carroll's way of things would have been to throw that ball OB instead of taking a sack there...and settle for a FG. He decided NOT to go with Carroll's way of things...so you tell me...is that his fault or Pete's?

Carrolls way of things are why the teams in the predicament thats it in to begin with. Wilson has been conditioned by Pete Ball for so many years now that he's broken. Keep the games close, dont throw over the middle due to turnovers, run for your life due to crap lines and be expected to make plays while doing it, live and die by the run and chunk plays even if they arent working, rely on the defense that hasent been good for years now, and pull rabbits out of the hat in the 4th to somehow win games they should have no business winning. Like I said, no its not working anymore, and good luck finding a QB that can make it work, because its not going to happen. Who do you replace? A fossil thats never going to change or a generational player that cant work within the grey haired guys confines anymore?

So should Wilson have thrown the ball out of bounds or checked down to Dallas,,,,sure, but he was never conditioned to do that. It has always been about making plays because he has always had to. He took a sack but it was still a very makeable kick that Myers just missed. Oh well.

This doesn't really make sense. You claim Wilson has been "conditioned by Pete Ball" and imply that it's overly conservative. And then you say he didn't make the conservative play on that third down (check down or throw away), because he was never conditioned to do that.

The conservative part is the run game. Trying to use up clock and keep the games close instead of going for the throat. Its been a Carroll trademark his entire career.

In a nutshell, Petes philosophy is counter productive and its a wonder the team has been as successful as its been. The philosophy really does need optimal talent to work correctly and they had that in 2013 and 2014 for the most part. They had a legendary defense that could shut other teams down (even with that defense they still had a ton of close games), a punishing running back who led the league in yards after contact, and a QB that could make plays when there wasnt a play to be made, all the while with crap offensive lines. The philosophy never changed but the teams talent and makeup have. For the past 6 years or so, Wilson has been good enough to mask the deficiencies in the other areas, but thats no longer the case. Its why when the team did reach the postseason you knew they were never going to be real contenders for the Super Bowl. The philosophy needs to change and it never will under Pete. He knows no other way. Look at the first game of the season against Indy. The offense looked awesome. Like a well oiled machine with the different motion and tempos and that was a great win with a defense that couldnt stop an empty water bottle from tipping over. Pete comes out afterwards and says Waldron has seen the light and come to terms with the way things are done around there and will fall in line. Immediately the offense goes stagnant again. Is that a Russ issue or a Pete Carroll issue?

 

[Tusc2000]

Is Russell that hamstrung by Pete? oh hell no. He is simply not executing the individual plays at a level expected of a top5 QB. He had all day to throw yesterday, for the most part. I was there and watched and he has guys open- and he hit check-downs great yesterday. He was inaccurate- noticeably less accurate than Foles. He just doesn't look to be executing at the highest level consistently. And top5 QBs should be doing that on days when we could essentially run the ball at will (24/170/7.1). The decision to take the sack there happens so often it makes me sick. That is NOT Pete Ball- that is Russell and his ego on full display.

I hear you and agree with you for the most part. No Russ isnt playing like a top 5 QB and hasent for awhile now, but its sad that that is what it takes for the team to be successful. I'm admitting he's broken, but the guy who broke him isnt the person thats going to fix him either. Yeah he takes a lot of sacks because he has always had to run away from the pressure. Its not his ego, its the only way he knows how because hes had to do that his entire career.

Again, the big question is who do you get rid of, a QB that has been brilliant for most of his career that could possibly be so again with different leadership or a coach that needs HOF caliber play from the QB position to succeed in which the team is guaranteed not to get again?

He's been playing the past month with a busted finger. maybe he came back too soon, but I give Russ props for courage. He also saw how terrible Geno was, and wanted to try and salvage the season if he could. Unfortunately, he could not.

 

[justafan]

Can't overcome Carroll's way of things? Carroll's way of things would have been to throw that ball OB instead of taking a sack there...and settle for a FG. He decided NOT to go with Carroll's way of things...so you tell me...is that his fault or Pete's?

Carrolls way of things are why the teams in the predicament thats it in to begin with. Wilson has been conditioned by Pete Ball for so many years now that he's broken. Keep the games close, dont throw over the middle due to turnovers, run for your life due to crap lines and be expected to make plays while doing it, live and die by the run and chunk plays even if they arent working, rely on the defense that hasent been good for years now, and pull rabbits out of the hat in the 4th to somehow win games they should have no business winning. Like I said, no its not working anymore, and good luck finding a QB that can make it work, because its not going to happen. Who do you replace? A fossil thats never going to change or a generational player that cant work within the grey haired guys confines anymore?

So should Wilson have thrown the ball out of bounds or checked down to Dallas,,,,sure, but he was never conditioned to do that. It has always been about making plays because he has always had to. He took a sack but it was still a very makeable kick that Myers just missed. Oh well.

This doesn't really make sense. You claim Wilson has been "conditioned by Pete Ball" and imply that it's overly conservative. And then you say he didn't make the conservative play on that third down (check down or throw away), because he was never conditioned to do that.

The conservative part is the run game. Trying to use up clock and keep the games close instead of going for the throat. Its been a Carroll trademark his entire career.

In a nutshell, Petes philosophy is counter productive and its a wonder the team has been as successful as its been. The philosophy really does need optimal talent to work correctly and they had that in 2013 and 2014 for the most part. They had a legendary defense that could shut other teams down (even with that defense they still had a ton of close games), a punishing running back who led the league in yards after contact, and a QB that could make plays when there wasnt a play to be made, all the while with crap offensive lines. The philosophy never changed but the teams talent and makeup have. For the past 6 years or so, Wilson has been good enough to mask the deficiencies in the other areas, but thats no longer the case. Its why when the team did reach the postseason you knew they were never going to be real contenders for the Super Bowl. The philosophy needs to change and it never will under Pete. He knows no other way. Look at the first game of the season against Indy. The offense looked awesome. Like a well oiled machine with the different motion and tempos and that was a great win with a defense that couldnt stop an empty water bottle from tipping over. Pete comes out afterwards and says Waldron has seen the light and come to terms with the way things are done around there and will fall in line. Immediately the offense goes stagnant again. Is that a Russ issue or a Pete Carroll issue?

You are right , pete would never have won a SB without a stout D , tough running game and QB who is clutch. Either would Lombardi, Noll ,or Mcvay...oh
wait Mcvay hasnt won shit even with the best talent.

 

[Throwdown]

Can't overcome Carroll's way of things? Carroll's way of things would have been to throw that ball OB instead of taking a sack there...and settle for a FG. He decided NOT to go with Carroll's way of things...so you tell me...is that his fault or Pete's?

Carrolls way of things are why the teams in the predicament thats it in to begin with. Wilson has been conditioned by Pete Ball for so many years now that he's broken. Keep the games close, dont throw over the middle due to turnovers, run for your life due to crap lines and be expected to make plays while doing it, live and die by the run and chunk plays even if they arent working, rely on the defense that hasent been good for years now, and pull rabbits out of the hat in the 4th to somehow win games they should have no business winning. Like I said, no its not working anymore, and good luck finding a QB that can make it work, because its not going to happen. Who do you replace? A fossil thats never going to change or a generational player that cant work within the grey haired guys confines anymore?

So should Wilson have thrown the ball out of bounds or checked down to Dallas,,,,sure, but he was never conditioned to do that. It has always been about making plays because he has always had to. He took a sack but it was still a very makeable kick that Myers just missed. Oh well.

This doesn't really make sense. You claim Wilson has been "conditioned by Pete Ball" and imply that it's overly conservative. And then you say he didn't make the conservative play on that third down (check down or throw away), because he was never conditioned to do that.

The conservative part is the run game. Trying to use up clock and keep the games close instead of going for the throat. Its been a Carroll trademark his entire career.

In a nutshell, Petes philosophy is counter productive and its a wonder the team has been as successful as its been. The philosophy really does need optimal talent to work correctly and they had that in 2013 and 2014 for the most part. They had a legendary defense that could shut other teams down (even with that defense they still had a ton of close games), a punishing running back who led the league in yards after contact, and a QB that could make plays when there wasnt a play to be made, all the while with crap offensive lines. The philosophy never changed but the teams talent and makeup have. For the past 6 years or so, Wilson has been good enough to mask the deficiencies in the other areas, but thats no longer the case. Its why when the team did reach the postseason you knew they were never going to be real contenders for the Super Bowl. The philosophy needs to change and it never will under Pete. He knows no other way. Look at the first game of the season against Indy. The offense looked awesome. Like a well oiled machine with the different motion and tempos and that was a great win with a defense that couldnt stop an empty water bottle from tipping over. Pete comes out afterwards and says Waldron has seen the light and come to terms with the way things are done around there and will fall in line. Immediately the offense goes stagnant again. Is that a Russ issue or a Pete Carroll issue?

Or maybe Pete does this because he knows his QBs limitations

 

[IndyHawk]

We can agree to whole heartedly disagree. And please feel free to point out where I'm wrong. And I'm still waiting for that list of other QBs since he's so replaceable.

He has no internal clock? How does one develope an internal clock when your running for your life from the snap your entire career?

This offensive line is not a turnstile? That's just laughable and I'll leave it at that. Sad part is this is one of the better lines he's had since the SB. Which by the way was a crap line as well.

He needs a running game? Now you just sound like every talking head? Well of course he does, every QB does.. But how many 4th quarter drives does He have under his belt, where they had to rely on his passing?

Who would you put in over him behind our O line if we needed a winning 4th quarter drive? Give me 5. And then stack up his numbers to all of them. Bet he comes out looking pretty good. You see what happens to Brady and Roger's when you can pressure them all game.

Has he looked bad this year, heck frustrating as hell at times, sure has. Trust me,, I'm not a fan of RW, but to say he's replaceable at this stage in his career is pure nonsense...

This 10000%. I expect Jodi to probably keep Pete and shop Russ because thats the typical Seattle thing to do and then Pete will revert back to his sub .500 winning ways with whatever QB is brought in to be the so called savior. Fans will rejoice when the new QB does nothing but hit the 4 yard check downs all game long.

Penny's ran for over 100 yards twice in the past three weeks, and the O-line had their best pass pro game in almost two years against the Rams.

Stop making excuses for Russell. He has plenty of talent around him to not be playing as poorly as he's played the past year.

You don't want him gone, fine. I get it, it's a risky move.

But enough already with the excuses. He's stunk. Period.

You preach it brother!

 

[Ambrose83]

It's incredible to me how so many of you want Russ gone, I mean he sucks so bad almost half the teams in the league would take him over their current qb. We broke the franchise scoring record last year... Do any of you watch other teams ? Our offense scheme is awful, it's incredible we have win as much as we have.. that's mostly because of Wilson, not in spite of him.

 

[Throwdown]

It's incredible to me how so many of you want Russ gone, I mean he sucks so bad almost half the teams in the league would take him over their current qb. We broke the franchise scoring record last year... Do any of you watch other teams ? Our offense scheme is awful, it's incredible we have win as much as we have.. that's mostly because of Wilson, not in spite of him.

How’s it awful if our trash ass QB has guys open over the middle of the field almost all the damn time?

 

[Hawker55]

We can agree to whole heartedly disagree. And please feel free to point out where I'm wrong. And I'm still waiting for that list of other QBs since he's so replaceable.

He has no internal clock? How does one develope an internal clock when your running for your life from the snap your entire career?

This offensive line is not a turnstile? That's just laughable and I'll leave it at that. Sad part is this is one of the better lines he's had since the SB. Which by the way was a crap line as well.

He needs a running game? Now you just sound like every talking head? Well of course he does, every QB does.. But how many 4th quarter drives does He have under his belt, where they had to rely on his passing?

Who would you put in over him behind our O line if we needed a winning 4th quarter drive? Give me 5. And then stack up his numbers to all of them. Bet he comes out looking pretty good. You see what happens to Brady and Roger's when you can pressure them all game.

Has he looked bad this year, heck frustrating as hell at times, sure has. Trust me,, I'm not a fan of RW, but to say he's replaceable at this stage in his career is pure nonsense...

This 10000%. I expect Jodi to probably keep Pete and shop Russ because thats the typical Seattle thing to do and then Pete will revert back to his sub .500 winning ways with whatever QB is brought in to be the so called savior. Fans will rejoice when the new QB does nothing but hit the 4 yard check downs all game long.

Penny's ran for over 100 yards twice in the past three weeks, and the O-line had their best pass pro game in almost two years against the Rams.

Stop making excuses for Russell. He has plenty of talent around him to not be playing as poorly as he's played the past year.

You don't want him gone, fine. I get it, it's a risky move.

But enough already with the excuses. He's stunk. Period.

Spinning my take a bit aren't ya? Who said he hasn't been stinking it up, matter of fact, I specifically said he has been? What I also said was, you can not move on or replace him at this stage in his career, to do so would be foolish.

Question everyone should be asking is why does he suck all of a sudden?

After 11 years he all of a sudden can't read defenses?

He lost his accuracy?

He lost his confidence?

He lost his leadership skills?

He lost his work ethic?

I think we know the answer to all of those questions. So what is the problem? What's different this season?

 

[Hawker55]

I don’t get why fans believe you cannot have a QB if Wilson isn’t your QB.

Like, why is it only Wilson that has to be your one and only QB until the end of time?

At some point, you need to move on.

Wilson isn’t playing like a top QB. And his chemistry with the head coach and his teammates seem to be broken and perhaps irreparable.

Some fans believe you cannot find a QB easily, well, if you keep a declining QB, which he has declined alot, because you are scared to move on and find a new young QB, you are never going to have another franchise QB again.

Teams move on and players move on.

You can’t be afraid to make moves, cause if you don’t, it will never get better.

Please by all means, give us your list of replacements.

 

[Hawker55]

It's incredible to me how so many of you want Russ gone, I mean he sucks so bad almost half the teams in the league would take him over their current qb. We broke the franchise scoring record last year... Do any of you watch other teams ? Our offense scheme is awful, it's incredible we have win as much as we have.. that's mostly because of Wilson, not in spite of him.

How’s it awful if our trash ass QB has guys open over the middle of the field almost all the damn time?

How many records has our trash ass qb broken again? How does his numbers stack up against the best in the game in their first 10 seasons?

I get it, some folks don't like facts, they hurt their narrative, but facts are facts my man, and the numbers don't lie....

If you think RW is what's wrong with this team, you would be sorely mistaken...

 

[Hawker55]

We can agree to whole heartedly disagree. And please feel free to point out where I'm wrong. And I'm still waiting for that list of other QBs since he's so replaceable.

He has no internal clock? How does one develope an internal clock when your running for your life from the snap your entire career?

This offensive line is not a turnstile? That's just laughable and I'll leave it at that. Sad part is this is one of the better lines he's had since the SB. Which by the way was a crap line as well.

He needs a running game? Now you just sound like every talking head? Well of course he does, every QB does.. But how many 4th quarter drives does He have under his belt, where they had to rely on his passing?

Who would you put in over him behind our O line if we needed a winning 4th quarter drive? Give me 5. And then stack up his numbers to all of them. Bet he comes out looking pretty good. You see what happens to Brady and Roger's when you can pressure them all game.

Has he looked bad this year, heck frustrating as hell at times, sure has. Trust me,, I'm not a fan of RW, but to say he's replaceable at this stage in his career is pure nonsense...

This 10000%. I expect Jodi to probably keep Pete and shop Russ because that's the typical Seattle thing to do and then Pete will revert back to his sub .500 winning ways with whatever QB is brought in to be the so called savior. Fans will rejoice when the new QB does nothing but hit the 4 yard check downs all game long.

Penny's ran for over 100 yards twice in the past three weeks, and the O-line had their best pass pro game in almost two years against the Rams.

Stop making excuses for Russell. He has plenty of talent around him to not be playing as poorly as he's played the past year.

You don't want him gone, fine. I get it, it's a risky move.

But enough already with the excuses. He's stunk. Period.

Yeah I'm with you on this as well. We don't even have to go further back than the Bears game, really:

Nick Foles was sacked 4X, we had 9 QB hits on him, and we were in his backfield for 8 other TFLs! That's a LOT OF PRESSURE. But...alas, a 3rd string QB, playing on the road, in the snow, without an NFL snap in over a year....still persevered through it and led his team to a win.

Russell, on the other hand, was sacked 2X, took 7 QB hits, and the Bears were not in our backfield enough to get more than 2 TFLs. I was at the game....Russell didn't seem to be under a lot of pressure very often at all, to be honest. several plays he had days to throw the ball and effectively checked down to Dallas and Everett several times. When you've got time to check down to your 3rd/4th receiver...you've got a lot of time.

So...I'm not quite understanding the logic about our offensive line and the pressure on Russell. It really isn't that bad. He PURPOSELY did not take the check-down to Dallas on the sack play...a decision that doesn't have anything to do with any of the points being made by Hawker55. He made a choice in real time to try and be the hero instead of conceding that to another player and taking the FG.

How many games has Wilson played in? And your basing your opinion on this one game because you happened to be at the game and saw what you saw?...... At this one game? Got it? :2thumbs:

 

[Optimus25]

Hasselbeck was a franchise QB in any sense of the word.

He was surrounded by some of the worst secondary players in the history of the franchise which greatly amplified the need for him to outperform his own defense on a weekly basis.

If Brady or Rodgers is your only precedent for franchise QB then Wilson isn’t one either and we should get 2 firsts from Washington for him which I guarantee they are the highest bidder and will pay. Even NE knew there’s a time to cut the cord so your own example works against you. They cut the cord with Brady, found the replacement, and are building for another run. Why can’t we? It’s past time and a year late in fact when last year we could have commanded 3 firsts plus picks.

 

[Hawker55]

Hasselbeck was a franchise QB in any sense of the word.

He was surrounded by some of the worst secondary players in the history of the franchise which greatly amplified the need for him to outperform his own defense on a weekly basis.

If Brady or Rodgers is your only precedent for franchise QB then Wilson isn’t one either and we should get 2 firsts from Washington for him which I guarantee they are the highest bidder and will pay. Even NE knew there’s a time to cut the cord so your own example works against you. They cut the cord with Brady, found the replacement, and are building for another run. Why can’t we? It’s past time and a year late in fact when last year we could have commanded 3 firsts plus picks.

He was surrounded by what?

All pro hall of fame right side O Line, hof defensive players, all pro and league MVP running backs, and top notch recievers. Those were some of the most talented teams we had until the Wilson/Carroll era. What are you talking about?

Engram
DJack
Koren Robinson
Mac strong - pro bowler
Jones - all pro, HOF, legend
Hutchinson - all pro, HOF
Lofa - pro bowler
Alexander, all pro, League MVP
Tobeck - pro bowler

Not to mention:
Hitman Hamlin
Boulware
Big play Babs
Wistrom- pro bowler
Julian Peterson- pro bowler
Kerney- all pro
Trufant- pro bowler
Mebane -pro bowler
Chad brown
Leroy Hill

To name a few... :roll:

And if you are really trying to sit here and put Hasselback in RW's category, you're credibility is demishing quickly....

Lemme ask you this,, would you take Hasselbeck over Dak, Mahomes, Hubert, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Big Ben, just to name a few? You'd be crazy to. Behind our O lines, I would take Wilson in his prime over all of them, including Roger's and Brady, and so would any other knowledgeable football fan.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We can agree to whole heartedly disagree. And please feel free to point out where I'm wrong. And I'm still waiting for that list of other QBs since he's so replaceable.

He has no internal clock? How does one develope an internal clock when your running for your life from the snap your entire career?

This offensive line is not a turnstile? That's just laughable and I'll leave it at that. Sad part is this is one of the better lines he's had since the SB. Which by the way was a crap line as well.

He needs a running game? Now you just sound like every talking head? Well of course he does, every QB does.. But how many 4th quarter drives does He have under his belt, where they had to rely on his passing?

Who would you put in over him behind our O line if we needed a winning 4th quarter drive? Give me 5. And then stack up his numbers to all of them. Bet he comes out looking pretty good. You see what happens to Brady and Roger's when you can pressure them all game.

Has he looked bad this year, heck frustrating as hell at times, sure has. Trust me,, I'm not a fan of RW, but to say he's replaceable at this stage in his career is pure nonsense...

This 10000%. I expect Jodi to probably keep Pete and shop Russ because thats the typical Seattle thing to do and then Pete will revert back to his sub .500 winning ways with whatever QB is brought in to be the so called savior. Fans will rejoice when the new QB does nothing but hit the 4 yard check downs all game long.

Penny's ran for over 100 yards twice in the past three weeks, and the O-line had their best pass pro game in almost two years against the Rams.

Stop making excuses for Russell. He has plenty of talent around him to not be playing as poorly as he's played the past year.

You don't want him gone, fine. I get it, it's a risky move.

But enough already with the excuses. He's stunk. Period.

Spinning my take a bit aren't ya? Who said he hasn't been stinking it up, matter of fact, I specifically said he has been? What I also said was, you can not move on or replace him at this stage in his career, to do so would be foolish.

Question everyone should be asking is why does he suck all of a sudden?

After 11 years he all of a sudden can't read defenses?

He lost his accuracy?

He lost his confidence?

He lost his leadership skills?

He lost his work ethic?

I think we know the answer to all of those questions. So what is the problem? What's different this season?

- Finger has contributed to accuracy issues

- work ethic still as great as always

That's where you lose me and others. Leadership? Ask former players like Bennett, Sherman and Baldwin about Russ's leadership. Not exactly ringing endorsements.

Confidence? Seems to be wavering to me. Russell isn't his usual confident self this year, especially since the injury.

Read defenses? Check out the All-22's. This year and last. Russell still is missing open receiver and relying on plays breaking down.

Problem now is he's injured, slower and appears shook. Voila, 5-10.

 

[Jerhawk]

Metcalf's best years are going to waste while Wilson deteriorates before our eyes and the head coach lets the game pass him by. It's a very sad situation.

I say Carroll gets convinced to retire, and let a young offensive mind like Kellen Moore resurrect Wilson in a fun, creative offense.

 

[Hawker55]

This 10000%. I expect Jodi to probably keep Pete and shop Russ because thats the typical Seattle thing to do and then Pete will revert back to his sub .500 winning ways with whatever QB is brought in to be the so called savior. Fans will rejoice when the new QB does nothing but hit the 4 yard check downs all game long.

Penny's ran for over 100 yards twice in the past three weeks, and the O-line had their best pass pro game in almost two years against the Rams.

Stop making excuses for Russell. He has plenty of talent around him to not be playing as poorly as he's played the past year.

You don't want him gone, fine. I get it, it's a risky move.

But enough already with the excuses. He's stunk. Period.

Spinning my take a bit aren't ya? Who said he hasn't been stinking it up, matter of fact, I specifically said he has been? What I also said was, you can not move on or replace him at this stage in his career, to do so would be foolish.

Question everyone should be asking is why does he suck all of a sudden?

After 11 years he all of a sudden can't read defenses?

He lost his accuracy?

He lost his confidence?

He lost his leadership skills?

He lost his work ethic?

I think we know the answer to all of those questions. So what is the problem? What's different this season?

- Finger has contributed to accuracy issues

- work ethic still as great as always

That's where you lose me and others. Leadership? Ask former players like Bennett, Sherman and Baldwin about Russ's leadership. Not exactly ringing endorsements.

Confidence? Seems to be wavering to me. Russell isn't his usual confident self this year, especially since the injury.

Read defenses? Check out the All-22's. This year and last. Russell still is missing open receiver and relying on plays breaking down.

Problem now is he's injured, slower and appears shook. Voila, 5-10.

That 5-10 record has nothing to do with a historically bad defense first part of the year, continuous bad schemes, game plans and in game coaching all season, not to mention our garbage back up QB starting 3 games. Or is it all on Wilson ? Seems to me weren't we up at one point to the Bears 24 to 7 or something like that? I could be wrong but I know it was double digits, and didn't our kicker miss a 39 yed field goal?

Again , yes RW has been bad a lot of this season, but to put this record on him, or all the offensive problems on him is absurd. Not saying you are.

But to say he all of a sudden can no longer read defenses when he's been doing it at a pro level since Wisconsin, sorry you won't convince me of that. That just not something that goes away. You either can or you can't.

As far as his confidence, you could be right.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Bad habits are incredibly difficult to unlearn. Not impossible, but difficult.

So yes, it certainly looks like Pete has conditioned Wilson to be the kind of QB he wanted - and now this is hurting Wilson.

Can Wilson be a better QB? Maybe.

Can Carroll be a better coach? Almost certainly not.

Both Wilson and Pete have tremendously uneven skillsets. And both are hitting a phase where the issues due to those gaps in their ability are not offset by the other benefits they normally bring. In fact, they are losing their ability to contribute in those other areas period.

There seems to be a different reality rearing:

- Wilson can no longer win with Pete.

&

- Pete cannot win without Wilson.

So the problem faced is that removing Wilson means removing any chance at winning. But Wilson knows he can no longer be effective here.

A comment was made that removing Wilson does not mean we cannot get another QB. Maybe. (though finding effective QBs are more a function of luck than ability right now). But we cannot get another QB that is effective under Carroll so it essentially is the same thing.

It is unlikely that any other QB that we stand a reasonable chance getting will be effective under Carroll, because it is unlikely the current Carroll can be effective with any QB besides Wilson. Any even that 'effectiveness' is waning. THAT is the problem.