Would this defense be better with Kris Richard?

[getnasty]

As the saying goes, "It's not about the X's and O's, it's about the Jimmies and Joes".

Schemes are great but if the personnel aren't right for them, then no matter of scheming will fix it.

We need a true penetrator from the tackle position and a bendy edge guy with moves. Until you get those types, you will struggle to rush the passer. We have a bunch of bull rushers.

Agreed, of course coaches can make their mark too but so much of it comes down to talent.

 

[QuahHawk]

Great question. I though Norton was an ultimate motivator but I have a gut feeling he is more player than coach. He is a respectable figure and may be a bit more intimidating but I don't beleive he has the technical knowledge of coaches past. I asctually felt similar when Richad was here. More of a players coach and lets of a tacticinal coach. I think Bradley was bright yet still a players guy and that Quinn was all coach and no BS.

Hard to say but Pete has to realize this is the worst Defense he has fielded in his tenure.

Wagner
Clowney
Wright
Kendricks
Reed
Ansah
McDougal

This defense is not starved in talent, there is something wrong.

 

[olyfan63]

Great question. I though Norton was an ultimate motivator but I have a gut feeling he is more player than coach. He is a respectable figure and may be a bit more intimidating but I don't beleive he has the technical knowledge of coaches past. I asctually felt similar when Richad was here. More of a players coach and lets of a tacticinal coach. I think Bradley was bright yet still a players guy and that Quinn was all coach and no BS.

Hard to say but Pete has to realize this is the worst Defense he has fielded in his tenure.

Wagner
Clowney
Wright
Kendricks
Reed
Ansah
McDougal
Quill Griffin
This defense is not starved in talent, there is something wrong.

Fixed the omission for you. Shaquill is playing at a high level at LCB this year. Ziggy Ansah has been crap. He's not healthy, not fast, not explosive and is not the player we thought and hoped we were getting.

Norton is great at kicking players asses verbally, but is he great at game planning defensive schemes for individual opponents? I haven't seen it. Think Belichick and the Patriots shutting down the Rams in the Super Bowl. Of course, he just watched film and saw what the Lions and Bears did to the Rams offense. Matt Patricia and Paul Pasquali of the Lions, and Vic Fangio of the 2018 Bears. Belichick actually credited the Lions for inspiring his game plan.

Yes, it's a balance between scheme and player execution. So I'm still waiting for the game where we all go, "Wow, what a great defensive game plan!" Maybe the 49ers game coming up? Maybe the Rams away game? I think that in truth, it would probably be Pete Carroll coming up with a game plan and then communicating that to his DC, Norton, and then relying on Norton to communicate the plan and implement and fill in the details. I'm sure Pete also has opponent scouting coaches and advisors; maybe someone knows actual details about how that works. I have no idea whether Norton's strength is scouting and defensive game planning for specific opponents; that may not be his highest value in Pete's system. I suspect Norton's value to Pete is more his ability to translate Pete's system and game plans into coaching and practice plans and in giving direct and specific feedback to players, kicking ass when needed, to make sure they execute the scheme correctly.

Where Norton would have latitude or difference-making input as a coordinator would be knowing which players will be able to execute the scheme and which will not, and in tailoring the scheme and the preparation to the players available, and in knowing how to teach and reach each player.

My opinions only. If someone knows more clear details on how the Norton-Carroll defensive coaching relationship works, it would be interesting to read. I also failed to mention the other defensive assistant coaches, who I'm assuming would be under Norton's direction but are part of the equation as well.

 

[Fade]

I'm amused that it's "all the COACHES FAULT"... No one seems to place the blame on the players. It's always the OC or DC fault for bad play. The coaches coach,, the players have to execute and play what they've been taught.

Was it Norton's fault that Blair didn't catch the ball which ended up bouncing off into the WR hands for a lucky TD?
Was it Norton's fault for the complete miscommunication that allowed there biggest threat WIDE OPEN to catch the pass down inside the 5 on there final drive? Was it Norton's fault that Bobby made a dumb play and hit the player out of bounds that went from a FG attempt and was instead converted into a TD on the 1st drive?.

What I can't seem to fathom is why is Shaq surrendering the inside? There was a 3rd and long and Evans just did a slant and got an easy catch for a First down. Should try to take away the inside and use the boundary 2nd defender. I wish the DB's would play closer, but I realize we don't want to give up the big plays.

The biggest problem with the defense is we aren't getting pressure or any kind of turnovers. I'm hopeful we'll see improvement throughout the rest of the season. I think we're going to need to blitz more often to get it done though.

Shaq is surrendering the inside because he and the secondary the whole game where doing what they were coached to do. They played outside leverage, and bailed. That was the gameplan as chicken crap as it was. Don't get mad at the players, they executed it.



Hahaha. You don't even know what you're watching.

 

[xray]

There seems to be enough player talent to do better than what we've seen so far . They are doing what they are coached to do for the most part .
Any new coaches ; just like the players would still be under control of the HC . Not a popular notion in here ; but that's my opinion .

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm amused that it's "all the COACHES FAULT"... No one seems to place the blame on the players. It's always the OC or DC fault for bad play. The coaches coach,, the players have to execute and play what they've been taught.

Was it Norton's fault that Blair didn't catch the ball which ended up bouncing off into the WR hands for a lucky TD?
Was it Norton's fault for the complete miscommunication that allowed there biggest threat WIDE OPEN to catch the pass down inside the 5 on there final drive? Was it Norton's fault that Bobby made a dumb play and hit the player out of bounds that went from a FG attempt and was instead converted into a TD on the 1st drive?.

What I can't seem to fathom is why is Shaq surrendering the inside? There was a 3rd and long and Evans just did a slant and got an easy catch for a First down. Should try to take away the inside and use the boundary 2nd defender. I wish the DB's would play closer, but I realize we don't want to give up the big plays.

The biggest problem with the defense is we aren't getting pressure or any kind of turnovers. I'm hopeful we'll see improvement throughout the rest of the season. I think we're going to need to blitz more often to get it done though.

Shaq is surrendering the inside because he and the secondary the whole game where doing what they were coached to do. They played outside leverage, and bailed. That was the gameplan as chicken crap as it was. Don't get mad at the players, they executed it.



Hahaha. You don't even know what you're watching.

True, but the REASON they're playing base and being told to play off the line and not press cover is because their coach doesn't trust them, or their D-line to get home exposing them to getting burned with over the top explosive plays.

What, you think Pete loves playing base and not being the aggressive cover three with his corners pressing at the line? No, he's doing it because he doesn't trust Griffin and Flowers (especially Flowers) to have to stay with WR's for more than 4-5 seconds because his D-line can't get any pressure.

This is not an either/or thing, it's both. The scheme sucks BECAUSE of the players not playing well enough to trust in Pete's cover three. It's not like all of a sudden Pete and Norton could switch schemes and voila, defense is amazing again.

 

[vigilantgrrl]

I wish I had the football IQ to understand scheme better to formulate an objective opinion, but I know many of you do.

I was one of the fans who were so enamored by Norton Jr. when he was our LB coach, that I was bummed to see him go to Oakland and not get our DC job. I loved his energy and thought he was a perfect fit for instilling our (then) young linebackers with the discipline and fire they need to excel.

That being said, clearly we have defensive issues. I’m not one of those “He sucks because he’s not Walter Jones” guys either. I’m not saying we have issues compared to our legendary D of a few years ago, I mean we have issues compared to anyone right now. It is very uncharacteristic for a Pete Carol coached squad.

Is our problem strictly personnel, or are we being frequently out schemed, allowing back up QB’s and average offensives to have huge days against us? I feel like our DB’s might be further along if Kris Richard were still here, but that’s nothing but an uneducated “gut feeling”.

Do you guys feel that Kris Richard (if we had retained him) would be having any more success assuming he had the exact same personnel that Norton Jr. has? Was it a mistake to let him go, or do we just not have the talent and/or playmakers regardless of who is our DC?

This defense is the result of trading down in the draft to get multiple picks hoping that some will fall through the cracks ala LOB.

It didn't happen.

Yes!!!! I am tired of the trading down all the time. Most premiere cornerbacks go early. Sherm was an exception. Shaq has only 3 interceptions in 3 years, and seems to always give a huge cushion. If you are going to draft mediocre players, you need a better coach to "coach them up". Norton clearly is not that coach.