Why did we draft Pocic?

[chris98251]

I think people just don't realize that backup center is such an extremely important position and it should not be taken lightly. Please don't forget that at that position Pocic may actually have to play football one day! You wouldn't want to gamble on that much importance with a 6th round choice now would you (Joey Hunt pick)? :twisted:

Why not, we gamble with a pedestrian to short career back up 3rd round pick at QB.

 

[Seymour]

I think people just don't realize that backup center is such an extremely important position and it should not be taken lightly. Please don't forget that at that position Pocic may actually have to play football one day! You wouldn't want to gamble on that much importance with a 6th round choice now would you (Joey Hunt pick)? :twisted:

Why not, we gamble with a pedestrian to short career back up 3rd round pick at QB.

Does everyone really not realize that little devil emoji means it's a smart ass joke?

Backup center "extremely important" even though our center (Britt) has only missed 1 game in 4 years? :roll:

 

[hawk45]

Having as bad of a o-line as we did last year then cutting a guy that then goes and plays well for the Saints tells me they are missing the evaluation process

When they say they went too young last year that's one of the things they are talking about. Making room for one of their cheap young draft picks over an old expensive guy with injury problems is understandable on it's own, but decisions like that led to ending up with five OL starters with minimal NFL experience at their current position and that was a mistake in aggregate. That's exactly what they are trying to avoid this season by not immediately slotting Pocic in as a starter and letting him learn on the job.

I believe their analysis may indeed be what you say Dib, but the reality is closer to mikeak. They are so riddled with evaluation issues that it defeats all of their high-level strategy.

It is just going to be picked apart - and rightly so - that the franchise who threw Sweezy, Nowak, Gilliam, and Fant out there (examples of guys with ZERO experience) in past season finally sees the error of its ways...and decides to slow-roll one of the more polished picks they've made in terms of skills coming out of college. It may even be the right decision, but it's perfectly fair to doubt it. They draft the polished prospect, causing fans to think AHA they've learned to draft guys who can contribute immediately, and then he can't contribute immediately.

The fact that they went with Glowinski instead of Aboushi suggests that they didn't evaluate RG correctly and that they weren't prioritizing experience or Aboushi would have been there from day one.

And if the public reason for not starting Pocic was attached to experience it might fly. But the frankly idiotic too-valuable-backup-center reasoning is so immensely stupid that fans are nodding and saying yep, they are just clueless enough about OL that that may be the actual reason.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Pete and John value the offensive line less because 1) they're already overpaid throughout the league and 2) they have the most mobile QB in the league and a playbook that can protect Wilson with quick passes. If there's a team that relies less on their offensive line than the Seahawks, give me a heads up, because we've gone 67-29-1 and a playoff win every year under Wilson while consistently fielding pretty bad pass protection. That isn't underperforming. Given the value most Seahawks fans place on an offensive line, it's OVERperforming.

Packers fans didn't want Lang back. "Why pay that much to a guy protecting a QB who only needs 2 seconds to throw?" They get that the playbook and QB play affect the OL performance as well as the other way around.

Then there's this:

http://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2017/1 ... -recovery/

I doubt it happens, though. Cable will just throw Glow in there, I'm betting.

 

[GeekHawk]

One thing I don't understand is, don't these guys practice against pretty much the best O-line there is? You'd think that would give them some 'Mad O-line Skilz', but it doesn't seem to work that way. Maybe they're making the D-line skills get rusty since those guys practice against such a dumpster fire of an O-line? Maybe it's a Race To The Bottom...

 

[Sgt. Largent]

One thing I don't understand is, don't these guys practice against pretty much the best O-line there is? You'd think that would give them some 'Mad O-line Skilz', but it doesn't seem to work that way. Maybe they're making the D-line skills get rusty since those guys practice against such a dumpster fire of an O-line? Maybe it's a Race To The Bottom...

You mean against the best D-line?

I guess there's something to the old saying "steel sharpens steel." But you know what else matters more? Skill.

 

[hawk45]

Pete and John value the offensive line less because 1) they're already overpaid throughout the league and 2) they have the most mobile QB in the league and a playbook that can protect Wilson with quick passes. If there's a team that relies less on their offensive line than the Seahawks, give me a heads up, because we've gone 67-29-1 and a playoff win every year under Wilson while consistently fielding pretty bad pass protection. That isn't underperforming. Given the value most Seahawks fans place on an offensive line, it's OVERperforming.
.

We have been utterly unable to run the ball the last 1.3 seasons which coincides with them finally taking their approach to the extreme and letting Carpenter, Okung, Sweezy, and Unger all fly away to where it's all bargain-bin players.

Nobody on this board is arguing to be in the top-half of OL spending in the league. Most understand that our QB doesn't require the same amount of protection. But I'll say it again, there is a minimum threshold for OL that if it isn't met just flushes your O down the toilet.

Pete and John are learning that it's okay to value the OL less, but that they need to value it more than they have the last few years. That is how I interpret them re-upping Britt and pouring 8 mil into Joeckel's bank account in a desperate move to shore up the unit.

 

[Bobblehead]

Pete and John value the offensive line less because 1) they're already overpaid throughout the league and 2) they have the most mobile QB in the league and a playbook that can protect Wilson with quick passes. If there's a team that relies less on their offensive line than the Seahawks, give me a heads up, because we've gone 67-29-1 and a playoff win every year under Wilson while consistently fielding pretty bad pass protection. That isn't underperforming. Given the value most Seahawks fans place on an offensive line, it's OVERperforming.
.

We have been utterly unable to run the ball the last 1.3 seasons which coincides with them finally taking their approach to the extreme and letting Carpenter, Okung, Sweezy, and Unger all fly away to where it's all bargain-bin players.

Nobody on this board is arguing to be in the top-half of OL spending in the league. Most understand that our QB doesn't require the same amount of protection. But I'll say it again, there is a minimum threshold for OL that if it isn't met just flushes your O down the toilet.

Pete and John are learning that it's okay to value the OL less, but that they need to value it more than they have the last few years. That is how I interpret them re-upping Britt and pouring 8 mil into Joeckel's bank account in a desperate move to shore up the unit.

Woud you rather spend the 4.5 million for JR Sweezy, or the 8 mil for Joeckel?

 

[chris98251]

One thing I don't understand is, don't these guys practice against pretty much the best O-line there is? You'd think that would give them some 'Mad O-line Skilz', but it doesn't seem to work that way. Maybe they're making the D-line skills get rusty since those guys practice against such a dumpster fire of an O-line? Maybe it's a Race To The Bottom...

Except they don't, limited pads and contact due to the rules now. You can't go full tilt, a bit of hand fighting but lineman need contact to move and get their leverage and make moves against another object. That limits valuable development no matter who your opponent is. Defense is a bit different since your typically using abilities to circumvent a block and need to just not be moved from your gap depending on play calls and positions. Offense you have to set your defender up move him from a gap and then the footwork to keep the defender from getting by you.

 

[Seymour]

Pete and John value the offensive line less because 1) they're already overpaid throughout the league and 2) they have the most mobile QB in the league and a playbook that can protect Wilson with quick passes. If there's a team that relies less on their offensive line than the Seahawks, give me a heads up, because we've gone 67-29-1 and a playoff win every year under Wilson while consistently fielding pretty bad pass protection. That isn't underperforming. Given the value most Seahawks fans place on an offensive line, it's OVERperforming.

Packers fans didn't want Lang back. "Why pay that much to a guy protecting a QB who only needs 2 seconds to throw?" They get that the playbook and QB play affect the OL performance as well as the other way around.

Then there's this:

http://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2017/1 ... -recovery/

I doubt it happens, though. Cable will just throw Glow in there, I'm betting.

Wrong. Rodgers has a longer average release time than Wilson does @ 2.87, #35 in NFL last season.. Also, Packer fans I read did want him back.

TT column is "time to throw".

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2016/all

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Woud you rather spend the 4.5 million for JR Sweezy, or the 8 mil for Joeckel?

This is like asking "would you like peanut butter on your turd sandwich, or just jelly?"

The key to any position group is draft, draft and more draft. Then you fill holes through FA.

Problem is while for all the awesome scouting and drafting our FO has done at every other position group, their draft philosophy with the O-line is terrible to downright criminal.

We're certainly not alone in failing to draft quality O-lineman, it's an epidemic. But the fact that we have one of the smartest GM's in the league who continues to listen to his two coaches (Carroll and Cable) on how to draft O-lineman is what worries me.

Hey Pete and Cable, YOU'RE O-LINE PHILOSOPHY OF DRAFTING MULTI-POSITIONAL ATHLETES WITH UPSIDE IS BAD........IT'S REALLY REALLY BAD. STOP IT. NOW.

 

[raisethe3]

They drafted him to convert him from center to tackle/guard. Why this FO seems so hell bent on converting players from their collegiate positions boggles my mind.

I feel the same way. Players are designed to play a position and excel from it. Not everyone can be Britt or Sherman. :roll:

 

[hawkfan68]

Glowinski got hurt and they put Aboushi in. Did I miss something, I could be wrong but that seems to be the situation.

I don't think that's true, which is why I'm wondering if you have a source for your claim. Note that injury reporting in the NFL is closely scrutinized and you can view our historical injury reports via .com here.

This is interesting. I looked everywhere to see why Glowinski was inactive and can not find anything. It seems he basically lost his spot and the FO made him inactive. Never heard of a player getting benched and then made inacative without any further explanation. Media just says Glowinski is inactive and Aboushi will take his place without any further expansion.

Glowinksi didn't get hurt, unless you consider stinking up the joint an injury. He got utterly destroyed in the Titans game, so he got benched.

As far as Pocic goes, he was drafted for depth, competition and to hopefully slowly work his way into the starting lineup in the next couple of years. If you thought he was some stud lineman that could step in day one, then that's on you.

He's a very good college lineman that can play multiple positions along the line. But he's obviously not ready to be a full time starter.............yet.

I'm guessing that Glow started over Oday due to Glow being in the Seahawk system longer. Just a guess so I could be way off here.

As for Pocic. I think you're spot on about his versatility but think he was also insurance for Britt. At the time there was still uncertainty if they were planning to resign him after his contract was up. They ended up giving Britt an extension after the start of the season.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

One thing I don't understand is, don't these guys practice against pretty much the best O-line there is? You'd think that would give them some 'Mad O-line Skilz', but it doesn't seem to work that way. Maybe they're making the D-line skills get rusty since those guys practice against such a dumpster fire of an O-line? Maybe it's a Race To The Bottom...

Except the don't, limited pads and contact due to the rules now.

Which Pete, Cable, and a number of other NFL coaches have explicitly faulted (in part) for the decline in OL quality.

 

[KitsapGuy]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Liz_Mathews/status/920058645039144960[/tweet]

 

[seahawkfreak]

Woud you rather spend the 4.5 million for JR Sweezy, or the 8 mil for Joeckel?

This is like asking "would you like peanut butter on your turd sandwich, or just jelly?"

The key to any position group is draft, draft and more draft. Then you fill holes through FA.

Problem is while for all the awesome scouting and drafting our FO has done at every other position group, their draft philosophy with the O-line is terrible to downright criminal.

We're certainly not alone in failing to draft quality O-lineman, it's an epidemic. But the fact that we have one of the smartest GM's in the league who continues to listen to his two coaches (Carroll and Cable) on how to draft O-lineman is what worries me.

Hey Pete and Cable, YOU'RE O-LINE PHILOSOPHY OF DRAFTING MULTI-POSITIONAL ATHLETES WITH UPSIDE IS BAD........IT'S REALLY REALLY BAD. STOP IT. NOW.

 

[brimsalabim]

Ask Packer fans how they feel about it now.

 

[Mad Dog]

I guess my biggest problem with the whole deal is that we passed on some offensive lineman in the draft that are starting right now in the league and are being successful and clearly looking better than the people we are sending out there on Sundays. How can a team that has a line as bad as ours feel that they are in a position to only draft a reserve player? People keep bringing up Fant, but lets be honest, he was God awful last season and thinking he was going to be anything but that again this year is nothing more than a reach. There were players in the draft that were better than him immediately and we just refuse to grab them for some reason. It'll be a miracle if Wilson doesnt get hurt at some point this season and the FO has nobody but themselves to blame.

Sorry for beating this dead horse guys. Just frustrated.

There are also OL we passed on that aren't starting in the league. And linemen that we passed on that are starting but are just as terrible as our guys. Draft is crapshoot especially with OL since so few play in a pro system.

The retrospective hand wringing every year about the draft is far too strong on this site given the strong roster we have assembled. So many teams would kill for what we have. Every FO will miss on guys. Every single one. Fussing about it when you have a winning franchise in a league built for parity is hubris.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Ask Packer fans how they feel about it now.

If they're blaming it on not re-signing Lang, they're pretty dumb. Rodgers got flushed out thanks to his right tackle and then got hit outside the pocket by a spying linebacker.

Pretty similar to Wilson's injury last year, actually, except Wilson leaving the pocket was by design.

 

[Chapow]

When did we get to the point where if a late 2nd round draft pick isn't starting, and playing well, from day 1, the guy's a bust and it's a wasted draft pick?

Pocic is now 6 weeks into his very 1st NFL season. His career literally just started. He might never become a good player in the NFL or he might become a pro bowler or he might end up somewhere in between. It's just super weird that some people are ready to close the book on this guy when we're at the beginning of chapter 1. Can't we just be a little bit reasonable and give this guy a little time? Don't people realize that there is an endless list of players that didn't start from day 1, or even year 1, that went on to have good careers?

Why did we draft Pocic? Seriously? :34853_doh:

For the same reason they draft any player ever.