Why '23 will be better than '22: Front 7

Hawkmode

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With the exception of our edge/olb group our front seven was a self-inflicted churn of cap casualties/identified bad "fits". Our actual front is a hybrid 4-3 Under/3-4 both using 3-4 type personnel. It relies on at least one "big guy" NT type to grab and "hold" the attention of being double teamed to keep your off ball LB pair "clean"...able to fill gaps with good attack angles.

The fronts were based on down/distance and meshing with the coverage...all designed to give our Post Snap "look" different from the QB's read of what we were presenting Pre Snap...lots of moving pieces needing to be assignment sound with disciplined gap integrity.

Many opponents offenses took advantage with inside/outside zone blocking creating quick cut back lanes and outright holes as the game progressed into late quarters.
 
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toffee

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With the exception of our edge/olb group our front seven was a self-inflicted churn of cap casualties/identified bad "fits". Our actual front is a hybrid 4-3 Under/3-4 both using 3-4 type personnel. It relies on at least one "big guy" NT type to grab and "hold" the attention of being double teamed to keep your off ball LB pair "clean"...able to fill gaps with good attack angles.

The fronts were based on down/distance and meshing with the coverage...all designed to give our Post Snap "look" different from the QB's read of what we were presenting Pre Snap...lots of moving pieces needing to be assignment sound with disciplined gap integrity.

Many opponents offenses took advantage with inside/outside zone blocking creating quick cut back lanes and outright holes as the game progressed into late quarters.
Sounded like our schemes didn't confuse the opposing offense, our schemes confused our own front 7.
 

Hawkmode

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Sounded like our schemes didn't confuse the opposing offense, our schemes confused our own front 7.
Possible...but more likely the result of difficult communication issues with Jordyn Brooks (in his first year following the release of our experienced signal caller Wags) relaying comms from the sideline from Clint Hurtt calling and sending in plays in his first year as D-Coordinator. looking for that 2nd year of smoother communications and Wags setting the "moving pieces" in their correct starting positions.
 

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Are we signing Shelby Harris?
There's a couple possible reasons it is less likely. He seems to have been "lumped" with the "clean sweep" of last years D-line interior. His limited QB pressures and lack of NT size aren't helping. Clearly a "cap hit" he cost almost 5 Mill against the cap last year.

Upon Signing Dre'Mont Jones Schneider revealed Jones was the DT "target" when we traded away RW last year. Shelby endeared himself to fans with his dogged pursuit and tackling of an open field Daniel Jones running for an important first down in the NY Giant game last year.

Sadly the presence of Dre ...return of Jarran Reed and the recent signing of Mario Edwards makes Shelby a dwindling priority for our limited cap money...which is probably being "saved" for pre-season scouted NT who fail their teams 53 man roster cut down. I loved Shelby's locker room presence and friendly personna when interviewed. Pete tries to soften the blow of John Schneiders "business" decisions when a player gets released/allowed to leave.
 

FrodosFinger

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Hawks were 7th league wide in sacks they needed to address the run D and they did with Dre’Mont, Bobby, Young, Bush, Spoon and Reed. Teams like the Raiders, 49ers and Saints were able to exploit that last year. We made Taysom Hill look like Michael Vick in his prime with Cody Barton and Harris’s ass
 

hawkfan68

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Our down-up-down-up-and down defense of 2022, per PFF:

We had 3 really bad games, all below 50: #3 Falcons, #15 9ers, WC 9ers.
We had bunch of games in the 50s,
We had 7 games above 60.

I think the worst game was the total collapse of that wild card game with 9ers, and mainly the second half.

View attachment 59669
The Seahawks defense vs. Panthers was horrific. The Panthers ran for over 223 yds on the Seahawk defense. Sam Darnold only had 120 yards passing that game, mostly because all he needed to do was hand off the ball. https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401437898.

All the games against the NFC South had horrible Seahawk run defense - Bucs, Falcons, Saints, and Panthers. Each team beat the Seahawks due to their inability to stop the run.
 

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Hawks were 7th league wide in sacks they needed to address the run D and they did with Dre’Mont, Bobby, Young, Bush, Spoon and Reed. Teams like the Raiders, 49ers and Saints were able to exploit that last year. We made Taysom Hill look like Michael Vick in his prime with Cody Barton and Harris’s ass
Taysom Hill was so effective...I really thought we were going to take the "rough around the edges" Anthony Richardson. My remedy...watched more and more film tape/opinions on Spoon...I'm back in Geno's corner.
 

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The Seahawks defense vs. Panthers was horrific. The Panthers ran for over 223 yds on the Seahawk defense. Sam Darnold only had 120 yards passing that game, mostly because all he needed to do was hand off the ball. https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401437898.

All the games against the NFC South had horrible Seahawk run defense - Bucs, Falcons, Saints, and Panthers. Each team beat the Seahawks due to their inability to stop the run.
Plenty of "awfuls" for sure...but there also was at least one "feather in our cap" during a loss no less? When we played Kansas City they flashed the chutzpah that took them to the Super Bowl. Our disrespected Defense gave KC and Mahomes its lowest offensive output of 2022...sure they won in the end but they didn't add any nightmares...just the bitter taste of a loss within our grasp! 2023 Welcome
 

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You're right. Why even bother with roster construction?

Our wide receiver group looks strong on paper. See, I doubt you'll have any arguments to that since it was a compliment. But as soon as I say something slightly negative and/or critical...
Lighten up Jer, it's just a statement. It isn't played on paper. Should be a hell of a team this year, but also could take a while for them to gel overall.
 

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Can you explain the bear front?
I'll give my take using a reference:
Pete Carrol is careful to identify elements of our version of the 3-4 Defense...often referring it to adaptions of modifying our familiar 4-3 formations with personnel usually associated with a 3-4 concept. What might he mean...and what is the concept of a "bear" defense that can blend an advantage in pass rush without sacrificing run defense?


Diving deep into the Bear Front
By Chris Pflum@RaptormkII Jun 17, 2020,

Identifying the Bear Front

When it comes to defensive fronts in football, the differences between two fronts can seem almost arbitrary. Sometimes it seems as though a player moves a couple feet to his left or right, the name of his position changes slightly, and all of a sudden it’s a different defense.

However, those little changes in alignment can have a big impact. Moving a lineman or linebacker, even a little, can drastically change the angles for offensive linemen.

When it comes to the Bear Front, there are two distinguishing characteristics which identify it. The first is defensive linemen lined up directly across (Heads Up) from the center and each guard. The second is a strong safety and a linebacker lined up on the line of scrimmage on the strong side of the offensive formation.

Why is it called the bear? ...and when Buddy Ryan featured it for the Chicago Bears it was known as the 46 Defense. Jersey #46 was worn by Doug Plank who played SS for the Bears and played up on the Line of Scrimmage Strong side (traditionally the right side of the Offense featuring the TE) The Edge played wide 9T next to Plank.

Plank was a favorite of Bears defensive coordinator Buddy Ryan for his hard hitting and aggressive style, so that he named his defense the "46 defense" after Plank's jersey number and his central position in the defense.[1]

Plank was considered one of the hardest hitting safeties in the game. That effort took a physical toll, and he retired before the Bears reached their peak in 1985.

Do you get the feeling this is the type of role to utilize Jamal Adams?...the "33 Hawk" defense?



The article was an interesting read and I summarize some of its salient points as :

By lining up your DT/NT/DT directly across the G/C/G you frustrate an offenses ability to double team one of your D-line to gain a gap advantage and this then allows the defense to create 5 man pass rush opportunities with 1 on 1 blocking. Centers are at a disadvantage against a NT without double team help from either guard. By forcing double teaming from the O-line interior you also keep your off ball LB "clean" to gain attack angles on running plays since this alignment normally forces run plays outside away from the interior "A and B Gaps" (fast moving "rangy" off ball LB become a plus).

Utilizing this 8 in the Box requires "sticky" man coverage from your remaining 3 members of your secondary...perhaps this was what we have in mind with drafting Devon Whetherspoon?
 
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toffee

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I'll give my take using a reference:
Pete Carrol is careful to identify elements of our version of the 3-4 Defense...often referring it to adaptions of modifying our familiar 4-3 formations with personnel usually associated with a 3-4 concept. What might he mean...and what is the concept of a "bear" defense that can blend an advantage in pass rush without sacrificing run defense?


Diving deep into the Bear Front
By Chris Pflum@RaptormkII Jun 17, 2020,

Identifying the Bear Front

When it comes to defensive fronts in football, the differences between two fronts can seem almost arbitrary. Sometimes it seems as though a player moves a couple feet to his left or right, the name of his position changes slightly, and all of a sudden it’s a different defense.

However, those little changes in alignment can have a big impact. Moving a lineman or linebacker, even a little, can drastically change the angles for offensive linemen.

When it comes to the Bear Front, there are two distinguishing characteristics which identify it. The first is defensive linemen lined up directly across (Heads Up) from the center and each guard. The second is a strong safety and a linebacker lined up on the line of scrimmage on the strong side of the offensive formation.

Why is it called the bear? ...and when Buddy Ryan featured it for the Chicago Bears it was known as the 46 Defense. Jersey #46 was worn by Doug Plank who played SS for the Bears and played up on the Line of Scrimmage Strong side (traditionally the right side of the Offense featuring the TE) The Edge played wide 9T next to Plank.

Plank was a favorite of Bears defensive coordinator Buddy Ryan for his hard hitting and aggressive style, so that he named his defense the "46 defense" after Plank's jersey number and his central position in the defense.[1]

Plank was considered one of the hardest hitting safeties in the game. That effort took a physical toll, and he retired before the Bears reached their peak in 1985.

Do you get the feeling this is the type of role to utilize Jamal Adams?...the "33 Hawk" defense?



The article was an interesting read and I summarize some of its salient points as :

By lining up your DT/NT/DT directly across the G/C/G you frustrate an offenses ability to double team one of your D-line to gain a gap advantage and this then allows the defense to create 5 man pass rush opportunities with 1 on 1 blocking. Centers are at a disadvantage against a NT without double team help from either guard. By forcing double teaming from the O-line interior you also keep your off ball LB "clean" to gain attack angles on running plays since this alignment normally forces run plays outside away from the interior "A and B Gaps" (fast moving "rangy" off ball LB become a plus).

Utilizing this 8 in the Box requires "sticky" man coverage from your remaining 3 members of your secondary...perhaps this was what we have in mind with drafting Devon Whetherspoon?
Would you happened to know how many team used bear front full or partime?
 
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toffee

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Pete announced during his presser on the first day of training camp that Jarran Reed will play nose. in fact Pete said that he is counting on Reed to play nose.

DEMike MorrisMario EdwardsJacob SykesJordan Ferguson
NTJarran ReedCameroon YoungRoderick Perry IIMone *injured
DEDre'Mont JonesMyles AdamsM.J. Anderson
OLBBoye MafeTaylorVi JonesCam Bright
MLBBobby WagnerNick Bellore
MLBDevin BushJoshua Onujiogu Jon RhattiganJordyn Brooks *injured
OLBUchenna Nwosu
Derick Hall
Tyreka Smith
 

keasley45

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Pete announced during his presser on the first day of training camp that Jarran Reed will play nose. in fact Pete said that he is counting on Reed to play nose.

DEMike MorrisMario EdwardsJacob SykesJordan Ferguson
NTJarran ReedCameroon YoungRoderick Perry IIMone *injured
DEDre'Mont JonesMyles AdamsM.J. Anderson
OLBBoye MafeTaylorVi JonesCam Bright
MLBBobby WagnerNick Bellore
MLBDevin BushJoshua Onujiogu Jon RhattiganJordyn Brooks *injured
OLBUchenna Nwosu
Derick Hall
Tyreka Smith


Not surprised that they are moving Reed to NT. Given he started there for us when we drafted him and that he played NT a bit in KC, it seemed like they viewed him as a way to achieve the best of both worlds at the position in 2023 - passing on J Carter, boosting talent at DB with Witherspoon, and getting a guy at the spot in Reed who you know can hold it down. Would be nice to bring Shelby back.

Man, I wish we still had Woods. I know he's long in the tooth, but as a rotational piece... the line would be looking pretty good right now with the only real question mark on the team being ILB. As it is, if Mone makes it back ok, we might just be fine.
 

Hawkmode

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Not surprised that they are moving Reed to NT. Given he started there for us when we drafted him and that he played NT a bit in KC, it seemed like they viewed him as a way to achieve the best of both worlds at the position in 2023 - passing on J Carter, boosting talent at DB with Witherspoon, and getting a guy at the spot in Reed who you know can hold it down. Would be nice to bring Shelby back.

Man, I wish we still had Woods. I know he's long in the tooth, but as a rotational piece... the line would be looking pretty good right now with the only real question mark on the team being ILB. As it is, if Mone makes it back ok, we might just be fine.
Perhaps Pete identified Jarran Reed at NT to ease the use of Cameron Young there as a rookie. Releasing Jonah Tavai also may have been the result of having Reed as Young's tandem partner.

Listening to some rookies on defense interviewed about "12's roar/enthusiasm" there might be some credence to the idea that on defensive 3rd down efficiency at home we dropped to 35.39 (compared to 41.84 on the road) perhaps due to the deafening roar our crowd provides (even more "amped" on 3rd down) to rattle the opponents offense...Riq said when Jordynn Brooks tried to relay the Defensive play called...all he could see was Brooks mouth moving...couldn't hear a thing.
 
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toffee

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What's your opinion on our starting NT, Jarran Reed and his 6'3" 306 lbs? Too small or just right?
 
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toffee

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With Cooper, we have two 330lbs+ tackle at Cooper and Mone, two 305lbs+ tackle at Reed and Young.

 

hawkfan68

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What's your opinion on our starting NT, Jarran Reed and his 6'3" 306 lbs? Too small or just right?
I'm not hung up on their weight as much as I am on production. Brandon Mebane was 311 pds but highly effective. Poona Ford the same. Just need someone to plug up the middle, stop the run, and not allow QBs to step up in the pocket. I think Reed can do that.
 
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