Who absolutely needs to be off this team next year.

[Fade]

If that was the case you would see players who haven't been performing here go and light up the league elsewhere but who is doing that?

In the past few years we have lost a number of good but not great players (Clark, Reed, Coleman, Griffin) who have continued to play well but none has made a material step up with 'better coaxhing'. Wagner has also continued to be great but not 20m great so it was the right call to cut.

Is there anyone out there playing for another team that was terrible here and great elsewhere?

Wagner played like a 1st team All-Pro this year, better than he had been the last 3 seasons in Seattle.

Trey Flowers was statistically one of the worst CBs in NFL history. The Bengals found a nice little niche for him, and put him on TEs.

Frank Clark has made 3 Pro-Bowls in KC, and has been a key piece for them. 0 Pro-Bowls in Seattle.

Dunlap last year had to go to the coaches and tell them to use him correctly.

Too many players are drafted on defense and do not develop or are outright busts. Kinda hard to go somewhere else and be successful when your original team ruins you.

Name all of the Seahawks defensive coaches that are hired away and go on to be successful over the last 8 years? Pete has had one of the worst defensive staffs in football since Quinn left.

Have a look at this thread and tell me what you think.
https://www.seahawks.net/threads/the-hawks-d-vs-the-top-8-d-asset-expenditure.184749/

 

[Chawker]

Barton
LJ Collier
Penny
Blythe

My short list.

 

[Chuckwow]

Scout writes an excellent piece a few posts back. Not quoting him verbatim , but there's no question we need to get back to building the trenches. I've had my doubts about Pete Carroll more than once but there's no arguing the success he once had in his coaching career. Tough-ass lines and running backs that could also make their own holes. It's definitely about passing in today's high flying NFL but that doesn't mean passing is superior to running. I like the old adage " only two things can happen when you pass and two of them are bad". So as much as I agonize over some of the things Pete does, His unwavering commitment to the run isn't one of them. But he needs to make up his mind what it is he wants to do. Very few teams these days are equally balanced between passing and running. I'd be happier with an above average QB throwing to above average WRs with solid, angry lines stopping the run and creating holes for our backfield.

Football really isn't that complicated. Run. Stop the run. Win.

 

[chrispy]

With the cap as is, your strategy isn’t compatible with keeping Geno.

Sign him to what he‘s likely to command and you’ll struggle to fill out the roster with scrubs given the remaining cap crumbs.

Suppose you could mortgage your way around it with a longer term contract, but then you’re committed to a QB on the wrong side of 35 in those latter years.

Sadly it’s just bad timing given the overall state of the roster, the cap, and Geno‘s age.

Definitely a concern. Overthecap has 36 players on contract in 23 with 50 mil in cap space.

I think the transition or non-exclusive franchise tag will be used on Geno. That will allow him to negotiate with other teams and give JS a chance to meet other teams' best offer. 30mil is the number being thrown around, but it really depends on the market. Tags are applied in March I think.

There is also some savings with cuts (GJackson, QDiggs).

If all dominoes fall expensive, yup: undoable. If there are some renogotiations, 5 more starters on cheap rookie deals, maybe Geno comes in a tad cheaper.... It could all fit. JS could easily be recognized as GM of the year this season. However, he has potential to string together 2 epic off-season.

 

[Chuckwow]

As far as Barton, he is an unrestricted free agent. I doubt we even offer him a contract.

I wish I could like this post twice.

At the combine, I guess he ran a 4.65, and that was at 227 lbs. He's probably 240 now and plays like he's running a 5. That in itself is terrible but to make matters worse, his reactionary time could be clocked with a sundial.

The guy put up a very impressive 30 reps and as awesome as that may sound, I think I see the issue here. He's a weightlifter, he's not a football player.

In fairness, he was given a 5th rd grade by several publications... but of course, we took him in the 3rd.

Handsome kid and built like a truck, I do wish him well at his next profession.

 

[BASF]

I wish I could like this post twice.

At the combine, I guess he ran a 4.65, and that was at 227 lbs. He's probably 240 now and plays like he's running a 5. That in itself is terrible but to make matters worse, his reactionary time could be clocked with a sundial.

The guy put up a very impressive 30 reps and as awesome as that may sound, I think I see the issue here. He's a weightlifter, he's not a football player.

In fairness, he was given a 5th rd grade by several publications... but of course, we took him in the 3rd.

Handsome kid and built like a truck, I do wish him well at his next profession.

Someone will give him a contract. He is serviceable as a backup and special teamer. He simply is not a starter in the league. Some people never put it together, of course some coordinator who is smarter than Clint Hurtt (seemingly not that difficult) could make him a decent starter.

 

[JPatera76]

Barton
LJ Collier
Penny
Blythe

My short list.

To add imo, Brooks, Poona, Jackson, Diggs, Jamal Adams... Most of all
Clint Hurtt

 

[Ozzy]

There is zero chance I'm paying Adams and Diggs a combined 40 million. Not sure if they can get out of both or one but that is insane. The fact they are in the situation in the first place is baffling.

 

[balakoth]

Hurtt first and foremost. I know it ultimately comes back to Pete, but Hurtt is such an embarrassment. Worse than KNJ.

49ers Drives vs Seahawks:
FG TD FG Punt FG TD TD TD FG End of game. They scored on 80% of their drives with a rookie 7th-round pick at QB.

Thats what happens when your LB plays the wrong zone and lets people just wide open free

 

[Sgt. Largent]

i'm a barton dissenter, or at least a barton agnostic. it looks like he can make plays.

He's not a NFL starting LB, he's just not.

Great backup, great special teamer, knows what to do.........but just doesn't make enough plays either in the run or pass game. Gets easily washed out of plays, isn't physical enough at the point of attack.

As far as who else we don't need to see back?

- everyone on the D-line except Woods, Taylor and Nwousu, and maybe bring Harris back if it's a cheap one year deal. Good when healthy.
- Adams can just sit out the rest of his contract until we can cut him next off season
- Jackson, gone.
- Blythe, gone.
- Lewis, gone.
- Don't commit any more dollars to Penny. Draft another RB in the mid rounds to spell Walker.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There is zero chance I'm paying Adams and Diggs a combined 40 million. Not sure if they can get out of both or one but that is insane. The fact they are in the situation in the first place is baffling.

Digg's is going to the Pro Bowl, still a very good free safety........and you don't have a choice on Adams, you're not eating 21M of cap next season to get rid of him.

 

[AROS]

He's not a NFL starting LB, he's just not.

Great backup, great special teamer, knows what to do.........but just doesn't make enough plays either in the run or pass game. Gets easily washed out of plays, isn't physical enough at the point of attack.

As far as who else we don't need to see back?

- everyone on the D-line except Woods, Taylor and Nwousu, and maybe bring Harris back if it's a cheap one year deal. Good when healthy.
- Adams can just sit out the rest of his contract until we can cut him next off season
- Jackson, gone.
- Blythe, gone.
- Lewis, gone.
- Don't commit any more dollars to Penny. Draft another RB in the mid rounds to spell Walker.

Agreed. DT really came on late in the season and should continue on that trajectory. I love Nwousu. He has that motor and speed and "want to" that we all covet. Love Woods but I don't know how much he has left in the tank. Does he come back for another season?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Agreed. DT really came on late in the season and should continue on that trajectory. I love Nwousu. He has that motor and speed and "want to" that we all covet. Love Woods but I don't know how much he has left in the tank. Does he come back for another season?

And we could save 3.5M of cap by extending Nwousu. I think it'd be worth it.

Great rotational dog on that line, that is DESPERATELY in need of dogs.

 

[NoGain]

Let go...

--Blythe
--Collier
--Gabe Jackson
--Jamal Adams (if someone will take him...doubtful)
--Penny (can't stay healthy)
--Irvin (like him, but his time has passed and new guys need PT)

Look to improve upon...

--Barton
--Ford
--Mone
--Brooks
--etc...

I don't know...we've got HOLES...interior DL, Edge rush, LB, Safety, C, at least one G, 3rd WR...We've got personnel work to do. No substitute for talent or real alpha dogs.

 

[Seattle Person]

Geno (if he wants more than 20M/year)
Blythe
Both guards
The entire D front
Barton
Everyone in the secondary other than Woolen

Not sure if Pete needs to go, but they're lack of adjustments across the board is horrible

Blythe: It's a pretty good Center class and there are some decent options in FA. I like Corey Levin, Connor McGovern, Garrett Bradbury. They're all younger, bigger, and better at this point in their careers.

Guards: Gabe Jackson is a no-brainer. He's as good as gone. Damien Lewis is going to stick around for another season. He's still cheap so I don't see the need to get rid of him. There should be competition but he's fine.

Dline: Shelby Harris was solid but he's going to cost over $12 million on the cap. Is he worth that? Woods is old. Ford is a FA and I'm not sure we can afford him back. Jefferson/Mone should be cut to save over $5 million. Andrew Billings is better and is a FA.

LB: I don't really know...I'm starting to watch some LBs in the draft. I'm digging Drew Sanders so far. He's versatile, fast, and is a missile to the ball.

 

[CouchLogic]

Diggs, Barton, Collier, that tiny WR that is always hurt, that safety that's always hurt, that RB that is always hurt, and the crappy "DC".

 

[Spin Doctor]

He's not a NFL starting LB, he's just not.

Great backup, great special teamer, knows what to do.........but just doesn't make enough plays either in the run or pass game. Gets easily washed out of plays, isn't physical enough at the point of attack.

As far as who else we don't need to see back?

- everyone on the D-line except Woods, Taylor and Nwousu, and maybe bring Harris back if it's a cheap one year deal. Good when healthy.
- Adams can just sit out the rest of his contract until we can cut him next off season
- Jackson, gone.
- Blythe, gone.
- Lewis, gone.
- Don't commit any more dollars to Penny. Draft another RB in the mid rounds to spell Walker.

The issue here Brooks isn't much better. The Hawks are in desperate need of a proper LB. We kept using 2-4-5 which magnifies poor linebacker play too. We really shot ourselves in the foot this season on defense.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The issue here Brooks isn't much better. The Hawks are in desperate need of a proper LB. We kept using 2-4-5 which magnifies poor linebacker play too. We really shot ourselves in the foot this season on defense.

Brooks is lightyears better than Barton.

Brooks has a high football IQ, intuition and physicality to his game, and as we saw when he played next to Bobby and doesn't have to be the defensive signal caller with less responsibility? He's can fly around and make plays.

Barton possesses NONE of this.

 

[Ozzy]

Digg's is going to the Pro Bowl, still a very good free safety........and you don't have a choice on Adams, you're not eating 21M of cap next season to get rid of him.

I hope you're right but a few film guys have said his game tape isn't anywhere near pro bowl level and Ryan Neal actually gets graded higher. Not sure I believe that but I definitely don't think Diggs is worth 18 million or whatever he is supposed to get. Maybe they can restructure it but my guess is he may be gone too. The hard part is you can't get rid of everyone and some players who aren't very good will be back.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I hope you're right but a few film guys have said his game tape isn't anywhere near pro bowl level and Ryan Neal actually gets graded higher. Not sure I believe that but I definitely don't think Diggs is worth 18 million or whatever he is supposed to get. Maybe they can restructure it but my guess is he may be gone too. The hard part is you can't get rid of everyone and some players who aren't very good will be back.

Neal and Diggs don't play the same safety position.

I'm fine with Diggs. He can still ball, and is an important leader on the defense..........and if we're being honest and listing all the players and problems on the defense? He's like #17.