Which would you rather have?

[kidhawk]

They may not have been a top defense where yards per game were concerned but teams had a difficult time scoring on them. They were top 10 in scoring defense at 16.9 pts per game -
http://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?lg=NFL&yr=2005&cat=T&group=D&conf=&sort=ptsgm

They may not have been elite but they were still pretty good. Good enough to have won that game if not for some injuries during the game.

Top 10 in scoring and lower in yards is not an elite defense.

#1 in scoring and #1 in yards allowed is an elite defense. Take that defense give it a few injuries and you have a top tier defense at #4. Take the Super Bowl XL defense and give it a few key injuries and you drop from decent to not very good.

See the difference?

 

[LymonHawk]

88% of all SB were won with a Top QB. only 12% have been won without a TOP WB but with a top Defense. So QB.

Simms, Williams,Stabler, Theismann, McMahon, Flacco, Dilfer, Rypien, Hostetler, and Brad Johnson were all TOP QBs?

How many of them are in the HOF?

Another of your facts?

 

[XxXdragonXxX]

I'm taking a HISTORICALLY great defense over an elite QB. Just having the top defense that particular year isn't gonna win you a championship with an average QB. A historically great defense will.

 

[jammerhawk]

I'd rather have both like we do now. In XVIII the winning team had an elite QB that lead an O the racked up a lot of points against the other elite QB. The difference was defence.

It is a verity that defence wins championships.

 

[pmedic920]

Defense wins championships.

Nuff said

if that's the case then why didn't 2006 Bears or the 2000 Titans win the SB? The Colts won in 2006 and Rams did in 2000 but Chicago and Tennessee had better defenses respectively. How about 2011 Packers beating the Steelers? Saints beating the Colts in 2007? Sure, top defenses do win championships but so do teams that have HOF QBs.

The OP posed a question.
That was just my way of stating my answer.
Obviously there are plenty of arguments on either side of the question but I had to pick a side.

 

[RolandDeschain]

88% of all SB were won with a Top QB. only 12% have been won without a TOP WB but with a top Defense. So QB.

..."Top QB" is defined how, exactly?

 

[Seahawkfan80]

88% of all SB were won with a Top QB. only 12% have been won without a TOP WB but with a top Defense. So QB.

..."Top QB" is defined how, exactly?

and I would appreciate the Sheldon Cooper definition....too. :twisted: :stirthepot:

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

Sometimes defense wins championships. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Almost all of the time, however, the team winning that championship is very good on one side of the ball and good enough to at least play relatively well for a stretch on the other.

If we're only talking about which we would rather have for a single season in terms of what's better for winning a championship that season, then there's no wrong answer as team's have proven again and again that both roads may lead to the same destination. However, if we're talking about which is better for today and the future, the answer to this question depends entirely on which FO and coaching staff we're talking about.

If it's ours, then we have to remember that it took only two off-seasons to produce a good defense, three to produce a top defense, and four to produce one of the better defenses of all time. We ought to be happy to have either for a single season but for the long-term, we have to remember that our drafting and coaching pedigree clearly favors defense. For the long-term, we would likely be better off taking the hypothetical freebie that bolsters the most important position on the side of the ball we're weakest at building and developing. That's an "elite"/"top"/"really, really good" QB.

 

[Rat]

Elite QBs are more fun to watch than elite defenses, so I'll say that.

 

[irocdave]

Loaded question. Anyone remember the 92 Seahawks? One of the best defenses in the 90's but won 2 games. Check out the wiki page on them - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Seatt ... wks_season

They almost had more punts than points scored that year and had the worst offense of the 90's. I would take a #1 defense with a top 2 run game over a top 5 QB and Holmgren D any day of the week. #1 D with a crap sandwich offense = NO. Been there and done that, see the link above.

 

[ZagHawk]

I think I'd rather have an ELITE QB, with a good-great defense.

vs an ELITE Defense with a mediocre offense.

Last year we had an ELITE Defense, with a good offense.

This year we have a good defense with a mediocre offense.

To put it in perspective

Last year Denver had an ELITE offense, with a mediocre defense.

This year Denver STILL has an ELITE offense, but now has a good defense.

I feel like it's a lot easier to to get to the SB with an ELITE Offense carrying a good-great defense because all it requires is an ELITE QB with a few good people around him. Where as an ELITE Defense requires like an entire starting roster on defense plus depth playing lights out to carry a mediocre-good offense to the SB.

I'm probably overreacting.

 

[Sprfunk]

Just a point about the 05 team and Manuel. It was not just one hit to the defense, Ken Hamlin was hurt off the field. They were pulling guys off the street to play db for us in that playoff run.

 

[400WattHPSHawk]

Since so much is being said about elite/top QBs and elite/top Defenses...

Which would you rather have?

Myself; Give me a top Defense.

In the Super Bowl era if I remember correctly, the No.1 overall offense has faced the No.1 overall defense 6 times now with the No.1 defensive team winning 4 of those 6.

I'll stick with them odds. Besides I've always loved watching a great defense dismantle the pretty boys.

 

[Meeker]

QB....while having an outstanding defense is nice, great QB can overcome not having one. Plenty of SBs have been won by great QBs without the benefit of a great defense. Saints, Rams, Broncos, 49ers, Cowboys, Colts, Packers, etc

You believe the 49ers didn't have an elite defense? Cowboys? Check your history, friend.

As was said before; It only takes one hit to put your QB on IR.

Ya...49ers and Cowboys did have the best of both worlds, elite QB and elite defense. They were bad examples. I removed them from the post. Thanks for the heads up.

The Packers and Rams also had top defenses.

 

[AgentDib]

When QBs win super bowls they get automatically upgraded in many people's thinking to elite, so talking about whether you need an elite QB to win a super bowl becomes circular really quickly. Pretty soon you are listing the top third of QBs in your "elite" category and watering it way down. Brady, Peyton, Rodgers and Brees have combined for 4 super bowl wins in the last 10 seasons (40%). If you're going to pick arbitrary percentages that is a better one, still silly though.

A better way to look at it would be the cumulative defensive ranking of Superbowl winners vs. the cumulative offensive ranking. I bet defense would come out ahead by a fair amount but it wouldn't be a landslide. Offensive led teams have needed passable defense (2005 Seahawks) and defensive led teams still need passable offense (2013 Seahawks).

 

[Recon_Hawk]

I'll tell you what I want, man. Two chicks at the same time.

Wait, what was the question?

 

[olyfan63]

Just a point about the 05 team and Manuel. It was not just one hit to the defense, Ken Hamlin was hurt off the field. They were pulling guys off the street to play db for us in that playoff run.

Yeah, Hamlin got in a stupid bar fight, and who knew that we lost the SB right there. Really, our FO lost that game for us by not having viable depth availalable.

What it really points to is the difference between that FO and the current FO. We lose Kam, we've got Jeron. Jeron probably starts for over half the teams in this league. We lose Jeron, we've got Shead. Shead is serviceable and we've won games this year with him at SS. We lose Shead, hell, maybe they put in KPL at LB and move Bruce Irvin to SS. (Only half-joking; not sure who our 4th string SS is) Point is, our current FO's 3rd stringer is always going to be serviceable at an NFL level. (McQuistan at LT last year being the exception). Our 3rd stringer is also nearly always going to be a guy with a history with the team, who's familiar with the schemes.

Schneider and his team put tons of effort into getting the best possible "roster fringe" guys, and the turnover on the practice squad helps make sure we have more options. "Yeah, we're cutting you from the PS, but don't leave town, we just might bring you back in a couple weeks"

 

[olyfan63]

Our 2005 team had an elite offense with an average defense. I really felt like we'd had an elite offense for 2-3 years before that. Hasselbeck, Alexander, Jones, Hutch, Engram, & co., those guys could move the ball on ANY defense of that era. The weak link prior to 2005, besides Hasselbeck being Spazzelbeck and turning the ball over, was our tissue-paper defense. We got even just an *average* defense, and along with the elite offense and elite running game, it got us to the Super Bowl.

Elway only won SBs as a QB when he had a big-time, elite running game supporting him, Terrell Davis & co. and the origins of the zone blocking scheme. We had everything it took in 2005 except the depth to keep an average defense from becoming a totally exploitable defense the moment we lost our strong safety in the Super Bowl.

 

[olyfan63]

I think the real answer is:

Elite (whichever) + Good (other one) > Elite (other one) + Average (whichever)

Though I'd really see it as QB, running game, defense, and Lady Luck.

Elite (QB) + Good (running game) + Good (defense) > Elite (Defense) + Average (QB) + Good (Running Game)

Some interesting Super Bowl test cases:
Giants (Eli) vs. Patriots (Brady), David Tyree helmet catch
Giants (Eli) vs. Patriots (Brady), Mario Manningham sideline catch
Cardinals (Kurt Warner) vs Steelers, Big Ben to Hines Ward FTW
Tampa Bay (Dilfer, Ray Lewis) vs whoever they beat that year
Rams (Warner "rookie" year) vs Titans, stopped on 1 yd line last play of game
Ravens (Flacco) vs 49ers (Kaep)
Redskins (Theismann) vs Dolphins (Marino)
Bills (Jim Kelly) vs Patriots (Brady first SB win)

Out of that list, the "more" elite defenses seem to have won about 2/3 or more of the games. I think the Giants in Eli's 2 SB wins had near-elite defenses both years.

The one clear win for the elite QB would be 2000 when Kurt Warner and the Rams won it. However, that Rams D wasn't too bad either. I recall the Warner/Martz Rams almost got beaten in the NFCCG by Tampa Bay and that elite D that Tampa had those years.

 

[IndyHawk]

Give me a top defense..Defense wins championships.Some of you cannot see it because they make the offense look that much better with more chances to score(punts and turnovers) better field pos(not allowing opp to move the ball deep)They score points themselves and take out opp key players or shut them down..Some used Colts/Saints as examples of teams without a great defense winning..Thats bull..Those teams defenses got hot late in season/playoffs otherwise they don't win anything..