Where are the pass rushers?

[kf3339]

What are the rules around cap hits if you give him a 2yr deal with a player opt out for the 2nd? Does that allow you to spread the hit?

I have no idea what detriment to the cap would be if we deferred bonus and salary to year two or three for Clowney and he has an opt out.

My guess is it'd work like it does for players opting out in year four or five, their new team would assume that cap rollover hit.

I've honestly never seen an opt out for a 2-3 year short deal. Why would the team do that? I understand why the player would, but not the team side, especially if they have to still take a dead cap hit.

No team would do that for a two year deal. Maybe a 3 year, but probably unlikely. I personally would rather they go in a different direction now and go after other options via FA or trade. It feels like paralysis by analysis with JS and PC right now. I'm just not sure what their issue is at this point.

I don't think they have an issue.

I think they have a timeline of addressing one more major D-line signing before the draft. So my guess is that's the deadline for Clowney to accept our offer or not. If not we'll probably see Wolfe or Griffen signed, or a trade.

Bottom line, this is a terrible DE draft, so Pete and John know they can't rely on the draft to get a difference making DE. Has to happen during the next 3-4 weeks.

They may have a deadline on Clowney accepting our offer, or not. Hard to say what the thinking process is right now. But I do agree hoping a draft pick will help in this weak DE draft is stupid. So I agree something should happen before the draft starts. I personally would like to see Griffin signed, and a trade for another DE. I think that would solve our pass rushing issue for a year or two. Keep the focus on the draft to best player available with a possible emphasis on OL, RB and maybe WR. I just think Clowney at this point might not have the right attitude coming back with his diluted worth messing with his head.

 

[jammerhawk]

Where are the pass rushers?

Ans: signing with other teams.

 

[jammerhawk]

With the additions now of Mayowa and Irvin at least there is some depth now. Hardly inspiring confidence the D has been improved type depth, but depth at least.

Still am having problems understanding what their plan is here as taking away Clowney, Jefferson, and the rarely available Ansah but adding Irvin and Mayowa seems like a weak response to improving the pass rush. However, it’s early still but the FO’s plan is certainly confusing.

Adding Clowney back or adding Griffen would change my view markedly.

Frankly I’m wondering if Ansah added back on a prove it team friendly deal could be in the cards?

It’s beginning to look as if the draft will have to provide the DT reinforcements.

 

[jammerhawk]

I know that many here disagree with my “Where’s the beef?” several times repeated concerns. However, I’m not alone.

Some may say wait until the offseason is over but the inventory of quality players has been mostly emptied out and the consensus is there isn’t much genuine quality available at either DT or DE at the Hawks draft position.

So far minus Clowney, minus Jefferson, minus the limited Ansah contribution, the limited response has been to add Irvin and Mayowa. The pass rush isn’t improved and the team will need to axe some contracts to improve or even get back to even which wasn’t very good last season. Where are the rest of the DLine players?

This attached thoughtful article from Seahawks draft blog (below) adds a lot of information to cause some pause for concern. Once again it is very difficult to understand their draft plan.

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/seahawks-s ... th-clowney

 

[King Dog]

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but not on the Seahawks roster lol

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So far minus Clowney, minus Jefferson, minus the limited Ansah contribution, the limited response has been to add Irvin and Mayowa. The pass rush isn’t improved and the team will need to axe some contracts to improve or even get back to even which wasn’t very good last season. Where are the rest of the DLine players?

Get back to even?

Just the Irvin and Mayowa signings alone equals 15 sacks last year, and so far all we've lost is Jefferson and Woods..............AND at under 5M for both players. If that's not improvement, I don't know what is.

Add in the Dunbar trade, and the defense is already improved without the last big piece of Clowney, Griffen or a trade for a front line DE, of which we all know John's going to deliver before summer.

Some of you guys got some fuzzy math going on. It's like if you don't see the shiny new toy everyone wants, overpays for and rarely lives up to the contract, you're unhappy.

 

[kf3339]

So far minus Clowney, minus Jefferson, minus the limited Ansah contribution, the limited response has been to add Irvin and Mayowa. The pass rush isn’t improved and the team will need to axe some contracts to improve or even get back to even which wasn’t very good last season. Where are the rest of the DLine players?

Get back to even?

Just the Irvin and Mayowa signings alone equals 15 sacks last year, and so far all we've lost is Jefferson and Woods..............AND at under 5M for both players. If that's not improvement, I don't know what is.

Add in the Dunbar trade, and the defense is already improved without the last big piece of Clowney, Griffen or a trade for a front line DE, of which we all know John's going to deliver before summer.

Some of you guys got some fuzzy math going on. It's like if you don't see the shiny new toy everyone wants, overpays for and rarely lives up to the contract, you're unhappy.

I actually think we are better now at DE and QB pressure than last season. I assume either Clowney or Griffen will be signed which settles one side of our D-Line. I think they may try Green at the other side at least on base D, and then you now have both Irvin and Mayowa as situational DE pass rushers.

As it stands now we have Green, Irvin, Mayowa, And Jackson as guys who can definitely rush the passer. Add in Clowney or Griffen and that is far better than last year. Add in a 2nd or 3rd day DE prospect and that gives us 6 guys for that role. That looks really good to me!

I think our bigger problem may be our DT situation. With Jefferson and Woods gone we are weak up the gut. Both Ford and Reed are stout against the run, but Ford is not a true penetrating DT and Reed has only shown one year (2018) that he can do the job. Mone, Christmas, Jones are the only backups and I don't see heavy rush ability with any of them right now.

So I am thinking once Clowney or Griffin signs we may need to go after a true 3tech DT thru FA, trade or the draft.

 

[Frozenropers]

I am actually pretty comfortable with our starters at DT. I think many still underestimate Ford. Reed missed the first six games last season then had to try and get into game shape during the season, always a tough thing for a player. I think he’ll be good again in 2020....maybe not 2018 all pro like but still a very solid 3 tech with the ability to collapse the pocket.

Where we need help is Depth at DT. Depth is much easier to find than starters are. :irishdrinkers:

 

[massari]

Get back to even?

Just the Irvin and Mayowa signings alone equals 15 sacks last year, and so far all we've lost is Jefferson and Woods..............AND at under 5M for both players. If that's not improvement, I don't know what is.

Clowney and Jefferson > Mayowa and Irvin is what he's saying. Are you saying that's wrong?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Get back to even?

Just the Irvin and Mayowa signings alone equals 15 sacks last year, and so far all we've lost is Jefferson and Woods..............AND at under 5M for both players. If that's not improvement, I don't know what is.

Clowney and Jefferson > Mayowa and Irvin is what he's saying. Are you saying that's wrong?

Yep, especially if you're just considering sacks and cap space, which is what everyone around here seems to be consumed by.

And when we do sign Clowney, Griffen or trade for a front line DE, you and others will see the light.

Because it's pretty plain to see that Pete and John are continuing the course of what they started last year...............getting a bunch of dogs back on this defense. Started with Diggs and Clowney, and now they've added Mayowa, Dunbar and Irvin, three more high motor nasty dogs.

And I say "dogs" with the most reverence possible. They're trying to get this defense back to being feared and intimidating. Sure as hell wasn't happening with Al Woods and Jefferson, two dime a dozen players that we can get anywhere.

 

[Appyhawk]

" Al Woods and Jefferson, two dime a dozen players that we can get anywhere."
Those guy were consistently pretty darned good at what they did for us and attracted a real shiny dime from the new teams that signed them away. Doubt that would have happened if they were just "dime a dozen" level. And if they were why haven't we found capable dime a dozen replacements for them?

 

[NJlargent]

I wonder how much of Clowney's low sack number was a result of the offense being able to cheat his way since the rest of the DL was below average.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

" Al Woods and Jefferson, two dime a dozen players that we can get anywhere."
Those guy were consistently pretty darned good at what they did for us and attracted a real shiny dime from the new teams that signed them away. Doubt that would have happened if they were just "dime a dozen" level. And if they were why haven't we found capable dime a dozen replacements for them?

If they weren't dime a dozen players, they'd still be here. That's literally what the phrase means, expendable because there are dozens of other players that can fill those depth roles.

Not sure why Hawk fans think because guys like these played for us, somehow that makes them more special.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Woods made a difference. That much was visible on tape. Jefferson really was dime a dozen.

 

[kf3339]

I thought both Woods and Jefferson did very well for us, and wouldn't call either of them "Dime a Dozen". They both had individual quality game performances this last season.

Jefferson is getting $6.5M per on a two year deal with the Bills. That's not "Dime a Dozen". Not sure the contract Woods signed. Regardless, both leaving has left a hole on our DT rotation that needs to be fixed.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I thought both Woods and Jefferson did very well for us, and wouldn't call either of them "Dime a Dozen". They both had individual quality game performances this last season.

Jefferson is getting $6.5M per on a two year deal with the Bills. That's not "Dime a Dozen". Not sure the contract Woods signed. Regardless, both leaving has left a hole on our DT rotation that needs to be fixed.

Even after Jefferson's new deal, he's still only the 58th highest paid DE by annual salary.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/edge/

58th...... enough already with this nonsense conversation. Glad you think he was more than a 3rd or 4th depth DE on a bad D-line, but that's all he was, and that's all Buffalo signed him to be.

 

[kf3339]

I thought both Woods and Jefferson did very well for us, and wouldn't call either of them "Dime a Dozen". They both had individual quality game performances this last season.

Jefferson is getting $6.5M per on a two year deal with the Bills. That's not "Dime a Dozen". Not sure the contract Woods signed. Regardless, both leaving has left a hole on our DT rotation that needs to be fixed.

Even after Jefferson's new deal, he's still only the 58th highest paid DE by annual salary.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/edge/

58th...... enough already with this nonsense conversation. Glad you think he was more than a 3rd or 4th depth DE on a bad D-line, but that's all he was, and that's all Buffalo signed him to be.

We definitely have a difference of opinion on Jefferson. Nothing wrong with either point of view. But we are lacking on our DT rotation with both Jefferson and Woods gone. So I hope some other under the radar dime a dozen DT's are still out there in FA, or we can get lucky in trade. Not many in the draft that can help much day one.

I do still agree that our DE situation is better than last year with either Clowney or Griffen signing and the new adds. Hopefully this saga with those two will be finished this week. I would much rather get off this pass rusher go around and start talking about draft options.

 

[Jville]

I thought both Woods and Jefferson did very well for us, and wouldn't call either of them "Dime a Dozen". They both had individual quality game performances this last season.

Jefferson is getting $6.5M per on a two year deal with the Bills. That's not "Dime a Dozen". Not sure the contract Woods signed. Regardless, both leaving has left a hole on our DT rotation that needs to be fixed.

Even after Jefferson's new deal, he's still only the 58th highest paid DE by annual salary.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/edge/

58th...... enough already with this nonsense conversation. Glad you think he was more than a 3rd or 4th depth DE on a bad D-line, but that's all he was, and that's all Buffalo signed him to be.

:141847_bnono: ...... different fit and scheme with a new and different team.

The Bills didn't sign Quinton Jefferson to play defensive end. Jefferson's new contract currently averages a very respectable 16th among defensive tackles..............................................

A two-year starter in Seattle, Jefferson, 27, has been an underrated and versatile defensive lineman for the Seahawks. A stout run defender, Jefferson can also push the pocket inside. He set career highs in 2019 for tackles and sacks.


Buffalo's defensive line, which had lost a pair of linemen in free agency, reloaded quickly and is arguably deeper with a pair of stout interior players and a more productive sack specialist in Addison.

Link >>> [urltargetblank]https://www.buffalobills.com/news/reports-bills-add-three-defensive-linemen-a-linebacker-and-two-special-teams-sta[/urltargetblank]
Link >>> [urltargetblank]https://overthecap.com/position/4-3-defensive-tackle/[/urltargetblank]

Nazair Jones is a similar hard luck (injuries) prospect with similar traits that remains on the Seahawks roster.

 

[Appyhawk]

"Nazair Jones is a similar hard luck (injuries) prospect with similar traits that remains on the Seahawks roster."
Great point JVille. I was excited by what he showed early on. Jones flashed some terrific ability when having that chance, BUT...

BUT is the problem. Healthy he's a promising attribute. Otherwise we need to spend that money elsewhere. Sure liked what I saw when he was healthy though.

 

[jammerhawk]

As on the Clowney thread, a sad but thoughtful recap of the present pass rush situation:, Rob Staton has summarized this complex sition @ http://seahawksdraftblog.com/what-happe ... -pass-rush

I am acutely aware of the reality is that it is early, well sort of, in the offseason but this problem seems stuck in an arabesque where we keep repeating the same response; and spending early draft picks with no long term addition of talent.