Where are the pass rushers?

[Seahawk_Dan]

Going into free agency the biggest need for Seattle was the defensive line, especially pass rushers. When free agency began there were a lot of names in the pool, some big, some good, some serviceable. However Seattle has been mum on the whole thing. This years draft is looking poor in terms of defensive line talent, but all Seattle has done to address the issue is re-sign Bruce Irvin who is 33 years old and not likely to be any real force. Jefferson left to the Bills and Al Woods signed with the Jags. Lets not forget that Clowney is still floating about in limbo with no guarantee he'll even come back, and he was the best defensive lineman the team had last year.

So what's the 4D Chess strategy that PC&JS have? The only players signed in mass have been scrub olinemen and one solid trade for Quinton Dunbar, a defensive back. Hardly addresses the underlying issue of a crap pass rush.

 

[Vaclav44]

Dan, your glass is half empty, I think mine is half full.

The O-linemen are serviceable to solid I think. I think they're better than 'scrubs' as you call them to be fair. Safety in numbers and we will have the numbers to throw at the O-line with good, serviceable real offensive linemen.

Dunbar is borderline stud, and for the cost of a 5th he's a homerun of a steal. This was a real position of need and we now have more talent and flexibility at the position which is a very good thing to me. Coverage makes the pass rush look better as much as pass rush makes coverage look better. It's a symbiotic relationship, so this is a very good thing to me.

Don't forget we resigned Reed on the D-line. What we're missing so far is Edge rushers, a pronounced weakness for us last year for sure, but Clowney is still in play and who knows what else the FO will come up with. They seem to have a way about them. We land Clowney and then we add through the draft. In fact, we land Clowney and we need 1 more Edge to compliment him. Maybe Everson Griffen? It's conceivable that they could finagle that under the cap. Make those moves and we can go BPA in the draft which is the ideal way to approach the whole puzzle for the long term anyway.

I think that they are playing 4D chess while we're all struggling to see the picture in 2D checkers. I'll admit I'm a bit of a Pollyanna when it comes to these things, but there is still ample time for this to turn the way the Hawks need and want. If Clowney signs elsewhere then I'll ratchet up the concern for sure, but so far I think that this is going to plan or better than plan.

D-Line and Edge will come.

 

[TruHawkFan9.0]

I think when it comes to Edge rush we are still playing poker. To me it seems the team is waiting out Clowneys decision, they want him back and the rest of the dominos will fall based off of that outcome.

Hawks land Clowney and make smaller moves to bolster the D-line

he signs elsewhere and the FO make big moves for Griffen or the other available FA's or pull the trigger on a trade for a DE already tagged by another team Yannick, Judon etc.

frustrating waiting for sure, but they have their strategy and the longer the Clowney decision takes the more I think they will reach a deal. could be wrong but thats what I'm getting

 

[SoulfishHawk]

We have no idea what they are doing behind closed doors. I'm assuming they are working hard on taking care of that pass rush. It just doesn't always go on our clock, that's all. These guys know what they are doing.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So what's the 4D Chess strategy that PC&JS have? The only players signed in mass have been scrub olinemen and one solid trade for Quinton Dunbar, a defensive back. Hardly addresses the underlying issue of a crap pass rush.

Irvin and Reed are a start, and I assume John isn't done.

So let's all hold out collective breath...................now breath out slowly and wait until AFTER free agency is over before kicking John and Pete in the nuts.

 

[Vaclav44]

So what's the 4D Chess strategy that PC&JS have? The only players signed in mass have been scrub olinemen and one solid trade for Quinton Dunbar, a defensive back. Hardly addresses the underlying issue of a crap pass rush.

Irvin and Reed are a start, and I assume John isn't done.

So let's all hold out collective breath...................now breath out slowly and wait until AFTER free agency is over before kicking John and Pete in the nuts.

I totally forgot about Irvin. My bad. See, the glass is even a bit more full!

Hope we don't need to give John and Pete a collective kick in the nuts!

 

[jammerhawk]

So what's the 4D Chess strategy that PC&JS have? The only players signed in mass have been scrub olinemen and one solid trade for Quinton Dunbar, a defensive back. Hardly addresses the underlying issue of a crap pass rush.

Irvin and Reed are a start, and I assume John isn't done.

So let's all hold out collective breath...................now breath out slowly and wait until AFTER free agency is over before kicking John and Pete in the nuts.

Considering this was to be the offseason priority Jn'P haven't addressed the problem at all and in fact they have not got better and arguably regressed. The question posed by Dan is a fair question, is there any plan at work here, b/c it isn't very clear? Where's the beef?

The cupboard of proven edge rushers is now mostly empty and they seemingly are at a stalemate with Clowney that may see the cupboard totally empty out before it is possibly resolved negatively for the team. Irvin is an upgrade but not by much over Ansah, but that doesn't account for the loss of Jefferson, he was better than Jackson. Reed was here last season so that is a push. No Woods but Mone was taking his reps by the end of the season so that is a push or close enough.

In fact the D has been neglected and the only two defensive deals of any hope for improvement are with Irvin and Dunbar. It's confusing to watch b/c it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Not kicking in the nuts but these guys need to fix the pass rush and the draft isn't looking that good for the source of help.

 

[Seahawk_Dan]

My question was never meant to be an attack on PC&JS, I am just genuinely curious on what the plan is.

I wouldn't be shocked if the slow build up on DLine is because they're trying to work a deal with Clowney and then load up on DLine after his deal is in the rear view mirror. However the problem is that since the other quality rushers and linemen are gone, the market becomes thin because the team is banking on Clowney. And Clowney could even further twist the knife and just still sign elsewhere, leaving Seattle without him and other quality talent with the emergency button is trading for Yannick Ngakoue and giving up valuable picks for him.

 

[Jville]

John and Pete keep their plans/cards close to their vest .... yet again.

I'M IN". John and Pete are who their record says they are ..... proven winners with a proven program. I'm fully confident that they will build a competitive team again in 2020 and am content to watch it all unfold ..... once again.

But, speculate as you will if that is your pleasure. Maybe a brand name will be signed. Plan B might be the assembly of a high energy rotation. Followed by say a plan C which might involve directing snaps to facilitate the emergence/birth of a star. In any case. Don't fight the inertia of the market. Make it your friend. :biggthumpup:

 

[JayhawkMike]

Or Plan D in that they were too dumb to either sign Clowney early or cut bait and are left with scraps and we end up with another worthless Ziggy clone or two meaning A player that used to be good but now sucks.

 

[Largent80]

Irvin at 32 had 8.5 sacks last year, more than double any Seahawk had. I'm sure they feel Green will improve even more and that Collier is part of the rotation as well.

 

[xray]

The Hawks have plenty of time to address the pass rush before the 2021 season . What's the rush ? :sarcasm_off:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So what's the 4D Chess strategy that PC&JS have? The only players signed in mass have been scrub olinemen and one solid trade for Quinton Dunbar, a defensive back. Hardly addresses the underlying issue of a crap pass rush.

Irvin and Reed are a start, and I assume John isn't done.

So let's all hold out collective breath...................now breath out slowly and wait until AFTER free agency is over before kicking John and Pete in the nuts.

Considering this was to be the offseason priority Jn'P haven't addressed the problem at all and in fact they have not got better and arguably regressed. The question posed by Dan is a fair question, is there any plan at work here, b/c it isn't very clear? Where's the beef?

The cupboard of proven edge rushers is now mostly empty and they seemingly are at a stalemate with Clowney that may see the cupboard totally empty out before it is possibly resolved negatively for the team. Irvin is an upgrade but not by much over Ansah, but that doesn't account for the loss of Jefferson, he was better than Jackson. Reed was here last season so that is a push. No Woods but Mone was taking his reps by the end of the season so that is a push or close enough.

In fact the D has been neglected and the only two defensive deals of any hope for improvement are with Irvin and Dunbar. It's confusing to watch b/c it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Not kicking in the nuts but these guys need to fix the pass rush and the draft isn't looking that good for the source of help.

It's a fair question and criticism on August 30th, not March 24th.

It's like going to Red Robin and complaining about how terrible your burger tastes before it's even to your table.

Free agency isn't even half over, and the draft hasn't happened yet where more trades and deals can be made, how can you defend complaining about it now?

 

[jammerhawk]

Dan I certainly didn't interpret your post as any attack on Jn'P. Just an honest "where's the beef " type question.

Like Jville I have immense respect for this FO and believe they have done a better job than has ever been done here before. Nobody is beyond critical assessment however and so far this offseason despite a stated position that the biggest offseason need was to fix the pass rush the plan so far is very confusing. I have faith but wonder if they aren't being played with Clowney.

It was the D that let us down last year relative to the O although mounting injuries pertaining had the team fairly toothless at the end. The D needs a whole lot of attention especially the pass rush. I suspect a plan will emerge but it is fair commentary to wonder what the plan is.

 

[Seahawk_Dan]

Dan I certainly didn't interpret your post as any attack on Jn'P. Just an honest "where's the beef " type question.

Like Jville I have immense respect for this FO and believe they have done a better job than has ever been done here before. Nobody is beyond critical assessment however and so far this offseason despite a stated position that the biggest offseason need was to fix the pass rush the plan so far is very confusing. I have faith but wonder if they aren't being played with Clowney.

It was the D that let us down last year relative to the O although mounting injuries pertaining had the team fairly toothless at the end. The D needs a whole lot of attention especially the pass rush. I suspect a plan will emerge but it is fair commentary to wonder what the plan is.

I did not mean to imply that you interpreted what I was saying as an attack. I apologize for any confusion on that part.

I understand what others are saying that Free Agency is still going, there is the draft coming up, and I still think we have a good FO despite some griefs I've had and may still have with them from time to time.

All my worries could be for not, but I just get worried that I'm gonna check my phone to see something like, "Clowney Agrees to terms with (Insert Team not Seattle)." And then, well, where does that leave the team?

I appreciate that you believe my OP was a fair question and that you seem to share some of the concerns I do as well. As of right now we're all at the "wait and see" but I'm getting bad flashbacks of Sheldon Richardson, trading a second-rounder for him and letting him walk. The team gave up a 3rd for Clowney and I'd hate to see him just walk away too with these "Rent-A-Player" kind of moves.

 

[Frozenropers]

Reed missed the first six games of the season last year. What is that 37.5% of the season? I think having him for a full season and not having to try and get in game shape during the season is a big plus.

Irvin had more sacks last season than any player on the Hawks. Another plus.

Our minus' are:

Al Wood, DT (Run stuffer)
Quinton Jefferson, DT (multi purpose DT)

It is not like we lost a lot of pass rush ability there.

Deep breath people.

Since when did "winning" the free agent period translate into winning during the season? Has it ever?????

I like the front office moves so far. Nothing crazy or sexy but effective.

Having Reed back for a full season is big.

Adding in Irvin's ability to rush the passer is a nice little move.

O-Line depth is always a good thing.

Quinton Dunbar...….Boom! Nice quiet effective DB move this front office always seems to pull out of nowhere.

Consider me, optimistic at this point of free agency. :irishdrinkers:

 

[Seahawk_Dan]

Reed missed the first six games of the season last year. What is that 37.5% of the season? I think having him for a full season and not having to try and get in game shape during the season is a big plus.

Irvin had more sacks last season than any player on the Hawks. Another plus.

Our minus' are:

Al Wood, DT (Run stuffer)
Quinton Jefferson, DT (multi purpose DT)

It is not like we lost a lot of pass rush ability there.

Deep breath people.

Since when did "winning" the free agent period translate into winning during the season? Has it ever?????

I like the front office moves so far. Nothing crazy or sexy but effective.

Having Reed back for a full season is big.

Adding in Irvin's ability to rush the passer is a nice little move.

O-Line depth is always a good thing.

Quinton Dunbar...….Boom! Nice quiet effective DB move this front office always seems to pull out of nowhere.

Consider me, optimistic at this point of free agency. :irishdrinkers:

Seattle ranked as one of the worse pass rushing teams in 2019, and that was with Clowney. Any subtraction from that, as of now, is bad. If Clowney goes then the whole line is a mess. The Seahawks don't need to "win" free agency, just address a weak point on the team.

 

[Frozenropers]

Good thing the season doesn't start tomorrow, right.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I mean... there isn't really many pass rushers available right now. Everson Griffen and Clowney are the only guys available that are worth signing, and the Seahawks thus far have been linked to both of them. I think we should have tried to go after Quinn, though with his age and price it is understandable why Carroll didn't want to go that route.

As far as the other moves, I'm not too confident. We let go one of our most consistent lineman, Quinton Jefferson. Irvin is a decent role player, but he is the type of guy that needs someone to work off of. He is also a one dimensional pass rusher with only one real pass rushing move. He is a guy that has been very inconsistent over his career. Overall he helps -- but without someone like Clowney he is going to be a non-factor as a pass rusher. We still got Reed, but he really has one good season under his belt, and that season is starting to look like an anomaly.

The condition of our line is worrying. Our DT depth is not as good as it once was with the departure of Jefferson. Going into the draft we have a very weak DT/DE class, so realistically this is our best opportunity to deal with the pass rush and defensive line. If we don't get Griffin or Clowney we're going to have a big problem on our hands, along with a noticeably weaker defensive line. I don't think relying on Green or Collier is necessarily the answer either. That is a pretty big gamble, especially considering the coronavirus environment where practice may be limited or outright cancelled. Thankfully we've been linked to both Clowney and Griffen. If we sign either of these guys our pass rush will be ahead of where it was last year, though i'm a bit concerned about our defensive tackles.

 

[niveky]

i swear, every year if they don't spend all of their cap room in 5 minutes the Seahawks aren't doing enough. I mean...free agency has only been like a week or two right and they have signed probably like 9 or 10 players right? This is why none of us run a team's front office. If palatable deals can be made they will be made. Whether that is at the start of free agency, the middle of free agency or towards the end of free agency or even during the season when necessary. They have probably done as much as they can do for now and will continue to do so while they wait for other situations to pan out.

They can't just continuously go after certain players over and over and hope that they will eventually sign only to see them go somewhere else and other players similar to the profiles for what they need for different positions get gobbled up during that time and so they lose out on every player basically. For a lot of these players there is already a market and for some of those players it is what it is and other times, like with Clowney, it is not unfolding how everyone thinks. They can't mortage the next 5-10 years on extremely bad contracts overpaying for a player before the market for those players is even set.

In the example of Clowney, he thought he was going to be getting 20m+ a season and it looks as though the market has fallen far below that. the speculation, true or not, is that the Hawks are going to be prepared to offer him 13-14m a year. Clowney is probably pretty upset that his market is not anywhere close to what he thinks it will be. It seems, if the rumors are true with the Hawks, they have set a good value for him in this market, because no other teams have been jumping to get him at the price he had hoped for. there are so many factors into his value, and such that I don't want to get into all of them here but I feel like if the hawks do feel like they might lose him as the off season goes on but they don't really want to lose him but another team wants to go a bit above the unsubstantiated offer many of us have read about here..i am sure they won't get into a bidding war if it comes down to it, but I wouldn't be surprised if no one suddenly puts up 18-20 mil for him but there is heat from another team he might still possibly get 16-17 a year from the hawks. Again, all of this in this scenario is unsubstantiated because no one really has confirmed any talks and numbers thrown out for contracts other than the hearsay we have read here. it is an example, however, of the front office playing the smart game, the long game..and making sure they don't wreck their chances to fill out the roster the way it will need to in order to get ready for next season.