What are the total punt return yards?

[drrew]

My favorite part of this number...of the 15 yards, 10 were on the very first punt of the season! We're talking 5 yards over 12.75 games!

 

[Ad Hawk]

With how good Hauschka and Ryan have been, when you factor in the return yards allowed and how good Tate has been on punt returns...we may be looking at the best Special Teams unit in NFL history.

Except blocked punts and field-goal miscues have made our usually stalwart special teams unit an occasional clown-act.

Overall, I'll take what we've had this season, the rare and comical downs with the typical ups!

 

[AgentDib]

Why should we care about total punt return yards? I agree that it has some value in regards to the toxic differential and limiting big plays, but it is really more important than net yardage? After all, any team could give up 0 punt return yards if their coach decided it was worth accepting a hit on net yardage in order to punt it high and short every time. And that's what we do to an extent.

I do think Jon Ryan is playing well for us, but to demonstrate that I think our 4th place rank in net punt yardage is more meaningful.

 

[253hawk]

Kicking it deep gives less hang time and puts more distance between the returner and the gunners, giving the PR time to set up and pick a line. Even if the gunners clear their blocks, usually it's enough to make a catch and have a chance to get some yards or bust a big one.

In 2011, we gave up 541 PR yards, third worst in club history (and two TD's). Ryan was punting deep spirals then and only netting 4 yards more per kick than he is this season. Now that he's switched to Aussie style at the sacrifice of a few yards, it's virtually eliminated any chance of a return (and is tougher to handle, increasing the chances of a muff.) I'll take no return and the chance at a fumble over the diminishing returns of a booming kick that's only getting 10'-12' more every time.

 

[AgentDib]

Ryan was punting deep spirals then and only netting 4 yards more per kick than he is this season... over the diminishing returns of a booming kick that's only getting 10'-12' more every time.

Well remember that 4 yard difference includes the difference in return yardage, so his actual punt yardage was significantly more than that last year, with returns eating away some but not at all of the difference. It is not obvious to me that reducing punt return volatility is worth giving up 4 yards per punt. It has value, but so do the yards, and reducing volatility is optimal only in direct proportion to how favored your team is.

Take a look at our six punts last week against the 49ers:
1-12:52 37 net yards
1-09:56 36 net yards
1-02:03 Blocked punt
3-07:43 31 net yards, -15 personal foul on Lane
3-00:30 35 net yards, -15 fair catch interference on Schofield
4-12:47 47 net yards, +10 holding Brock

Even discounting the block and the penalties, we still only averaged 37 yards per punt. Now maybe if Ryan had been booming them instead one may have been returned, but we gave up a lot of potential field position to prevent that possibility, and that very well could have meant a field goal in a game that we lost by 2 points. This was certainly not our only problem last week, but if you look at punt return yards to evaluate the game you would have no idea that our punting game struggled.

I am not trying to throw cold water on our special teams which I think have played very well overall. However, if for example we think that Jeremy Lane is an outstanding gunner, wouldn't that enable us to kick longer punts and attempt to cover them? The Australian style shorter kicks would seem more appropriate for a team with poor coverage that had a larger risk of a return.

 

[City Of Reign]

Alright !!! Who the hell pissed in AgentDib's cereal !?!

 

[BreesIsOverrated]

Ryan was punting deep spirals then and only netting 4 yards more per kick than he is this season... over the diminishing returns of a booming kick that's only getting 10'-12' more every time.

Well remember that 4 yard difference includes the difference in return yardage, so his actual punt yardage was significantly more than that last year, with returns eating away some but not at all of the difference. It is not obvious to me that reducing punt return volatility is worth giving up 4 yards per punt. It has value, but so do the yards, and reducing volatility is optimal only in direct proportion to how favored your team is.

Take a look at our six punts last week against the 49ers:
1-12:52 37 net yards
1-09:56 36 net yards
1-02:03 Blocked punt
3-07:43 31 net yards, -15 personal foul on Lane
3-00:30 35 net yards, -15 fair catch interference on Schofield
4-12:47 47 net yards, +10 holding Brock

Even discounting the block and the penalties, we still only averaged 37 yards per punt. Now maybe if Ryan had been booming them instead one may have been returned, but we gave up a lot of potential field position to prevent that possibility, and that very well could have meant a field goal in a game that we lost by 2 points. This was certainly not our only problem last week, but if you look at punt return yards to evaluate the game you would have no idea that our punting game struggled.

I am not trying to throw cold water on our special teams which I think have played very well overall. However, if for example we think that Jeremy Lane is an outstanding gunner, wouldn't that enable us to kick longer punts and attempt to cover them? The Australian style shorter kicks would seem more appropriate for a team with poor coverage that had a larger risk of a return.

I would rather have Ryan kick it 4-5 yards shorter than the "top" NFL Punters and have literally no threat of a Punt Return TD than the other way around. What we have going right now is fine, I'm so glad you aren't the special teams coach.

 

[themunn]

Ryan was punting deep spirals then and only netting 4 yards more per kick than he is this season... over the diminishing returns of a booming kick that's only getting 10'-12' more every time.

Well remember that 4 yard difference includes the difference in return yardage, so his actual punt yardage was significantly more than that last year, with returns eating away some but not at all of the difference. It is not obvious to me that reducing punt return volatility is worth giving up 4 yards per punt. It has value, but so do the yards, and reducing volatility is optimal only in direct proportion to how favored your team is.

Take a look at our six punts last week against the 49ers:
1-12:52 37 net yards
1-09:56 36 net yards
1-02:03 Blocked punt
3-07:43 31 net yards, -15 personal foul on Lane
3-00:30 35 net yards, -15 fair catch interference on Schofield
4-12:47 47 net yards, +10 holding Brock

Even discounting the block and the penalties, we still only averaged 37 yards per punt. Now maybe if Ryan had been booming them instead one may have been returned, but we gave up a lot of potential field position to prevent that possibility, and that very well could have meant a field goal in a game that we lost by 2 points. This was certainly not our only problem last week, but if you look at punt return yards to evaluate the game you would have no idea that our punting game struggled.

I am not trying to throw cold water on our special teams which I think have played very well overall. However, if for example we think that Jeremy Lane is an outstanding gunner, wouldn't that enable us to kick longer punts and attempt to cover them? The Australian style shorter kicks would seem more appropriate for a team with poor coverage that had a larger risk of a return.

And yet we gave up less than 20 points on the road to a team that had beaten that mark in 8 of their previous 9 games.

And let's look how all of their scoring drives started:

FG - off of a punt kicked to the SF 39
FG - off of the blocked kick
FG - off of a kickoff following a Seattle score
TD - off of a kickoff following a Seattle score
FG - off of a kickoff following a Seattle score

So maybe Ryan's short unreturnable kicks cost us the game - but given we had a full 50 minutes after that score to make amends, we can hardly hold it responsible.

 

[253hawk]

Actually, return yards are separate and not factored into total punt yards, so let's do that.

(2011) 4431 yards / 95 punts = 46.6 average. 541 return yards allowed / 95 = 5.7 yards per return; 46.6 - 5.7 = 40.9

(2013) 2217 yards / 52 punts = 42.6 average. 15 return yards allowed / 52 = 0.29 yards per return; 42.6 - 0.29 = 42.31

Still coming up almost 1.5 yards better with far greater risk/reward factors in our favor as well.

 

[AgentDib]

You may have different/better information than I do, I just looked at the NET AVG column on Seahawks.com's stats for Jon Ryan this season. That shows 39.3 vs 40.8 over the last two seasons with a decrease in return yardage coming at the expense of a decrease in net yardage. Obviously if we could get an increase in net yardage at the same time as a reduction in volatility that is common sense anytime when we are favored.

I do agree with your point that you would not want to go too extreme in the direction of distance as there is a sweet spot in the middle that maximizes net yardage. My point is that punt return yards do not tell you whether your team is finding that sweet spot; Ryan's worst net yardage (37.3) was in 2010 which also was the year of his worst initial distance (41.7).

with far greater risk/reward factors in our favor as well.

Do you agree that decreasing volatility is the goal of the favorite, while the underdog should be risk seeking? Hopefully we will be favored for the remainder of this season and the playoffs, but if we do happen to end up on the wrong side of the spread like @SF then the risk/reward logic reverses.

 

[Emerald12]

Special teams certainly has been a massive boost for us. 15 return yards given up all year is insane. It's always funny when I'm watching the game with some friends that don't follow the team very closely and the announcer says something about the 15 return yards they always assume he's wrong :lol:

 

[KitsapGuy]

This year, Ryan more often uses “an Aussie kick,” a style used in Australian Rules Football. Essentially, the ball is kicked on the nose instead of in the middle, creating an end-over-end punt rather than a spiral.

“By doing that I can control the ball and where I place it and the distance a little bit easier than the traditional spiral punt,’’ Ryan said. That makes punts harder to return and easier for those covering to get in position to make tackles.

Ryan has used it for years when he wanted the ball downed inside the 10 or 20. “We’re doing it a lot more in the open field,” he said.

Another big factor is punt-team coverage, particularly primary gunners Byron Maxwell and Jeremy Lane, who line up outside and race downfield.

“It’s just unbelievable how fast they are getting down there and forcing fair catches,” said Farwell.

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2 ... 13xml.html

 

[Anonymous]

Cue the XX "Most Interesting Man in the World" poster with Jon Ryan surrounded by gorgeous Latinas.

"I don't always have to punt, but when I do, you can count my season return yards on two hands".

 

[Scottemojo]

Cue the XX "Most Interesting Man in the World" poster with Jon Ryan surrounded by gorgeous Latinas.

"I don't always have to punt, but when I do, you can count my season return yards on two hands".

Either you are REALLY bad at math, or a mutated freak-o.

 

[BreesIsOverrated]

Cue the XX "Most Interesting Man in the World" poster with Jon Ryan surrounded by gorgeous Latinas.

"I don't always have to punt, but when I do, you can count my season return yards on two hands".

Either you are REALLY bad at math, or a mutated freak-o.

Or he is assuming that we hold our next 3 opponents to a combined -5 yards returned, which is definitely possible.

 

[Anonymous]

Cue the XX "Most Interesting Man in the World" poster with Jon Ryan surrounded by gorgeous Latinas.

"I don't always have to punt, but when I do, you can count my season return yards on two hands".

Either you are REALLY bad at math, or a mutated freak-o.

Both.

I'm bad at math, AND am mutated "freak-o".

The joke was a good idea, but I'll admit I didn't give it the right amount of thought.

 

[SoHo9erFan]

it helps when your punter is only 29th in average yards per punt.

you're guys' net punting average is 4 yards worse per punt than the 49ers.

regardless, allowing 15 return yards is an impressive stat -- your defense is so good it would make sense to punt it high and short to limit any potential returns.

I just don't think it is accurate to say Jon Ryan is having such an amazing year

 

[-The Glove-]

SMH...can we get one thread where some Niner troll doesn't need to inject his team into the conversation

 

[253hawk]

Andy Lee is kicking it 4 yards further but averaging in the returns (8.4 yards) it only comes out to 2 yards more than Ryan (throwing out the two blocks which aren't his fault.) That's basically taking a step or two and falling forward; so the punting metric is basically a joke because the difference between 2nd and 29th is about the height of an average football player laying on the ground. I'll take accuracy and no return every time over an erratic deep blast that has a chance to go out of bounds early, score or spark an offense. What I also like is that Ryan is among the fewest in punt attempts. He's tied for third fewest if you throw out BUF and PIT who have split theirs between two punters almost evenly.

All the punters kicking it deep are allowing about 9-10 yards per return; that's like a free first down for the opposition and a shorter field on which to get into FG range.

 

[SoHo9erFan]

Andy Lee is kicking it 4 yards further but averaging in the returns (8.4 yards) it only comes out to 2 yards more than Ryan (throwing out the two blocks which aren't his fault.) That's basically taking a step or two and falling forward; so the punting metric is basically a joke because the difference between 2nd and 29th is about the height of an average football player laying on the ground. I'll take accuracy and no return every time over an erratic deep blast that has a chance to go out of bounds early, score or spark an offense. What I also like is that Ryan is among the fewest in punt attempts. He's tied for third fewest if you throw out BUF and PIT who have split theirs between two punters almost evenly.

All the punters kicking it deep are allowing about 9-10 yards per return; that's like a free first down for the opposition and a shorter field on which to get into FG range.

Actually, Andy Lee is punting 6.1 yards further per average... according to ESPN stats anyways.

And, it's 3.5 yards more net yards than Ryan's.

Personally, I would prefer to have Andy Lee.

But I would also prefer to be the team that punts the fewest in the league, so yeah Seattle wins this whole conversation in that regard