Tony McDaniel Cut

[Pandion Haliaetus]

1. I'll miss McDaniel

2. I feel sorry for the 1 dude I ever saw in a McD jersey. Hopefully its his last name.

3. With that said that 3T spot is now a lot like RCB spot. With the elite talent surrounding it, its become a plug and play position. I think anybody will have a good level of success there.

4. I think Rubin is going to be an upgrade at the position. The guy is stout and a veteran whose had success playing in that role in the 4-3. With Mebane and Bennett next to him, he has a good chance to find success.

5. While McD is an unheralded starter the last two years. I think his greatest strength size and length wasnt really displayed. Its not like McD was known for disrupting passing lanes on a consistent basis.

6. The depth suffers a hit but Hill is an improving player, and I think Dobbs can build off his solid work last year with a full offseason with this team. Just pray for health. And now there is healthy competition at the back end with guys like Scruggs, King, Thomas, and Staten. 1 or 2 os those dudes could rise up to occasion.

7. The ball control Seahawks offense has potential to a dominant clock controlling force that should be able to put up points. Which mean more teams will fall behind and have to pass. So losing a run defender and allowing more complete players to hold the spot make sense if thats the thinking.

Lastly, it opens up a spot for the Seahawks to stash a younger DT as well given that all the vet DTs: Bane, Rubin, Scruggs, Dobbs, and Thomas are all free agents.

And a sidenote is that there is a chance to add a vet DT later in cutdowns for min or McD returns if he doesnt have a market at vet min.

Lot options to let play out.

 

[McGruff]

Don't underestimate this move. He wasn't our 11th most important defensive player last season. He was probably either 7 or 8. When you can shut down the run and not have to worry about it, the entire game changes. I like Rubin a lot, I really do. But we're putting a whole lotta marbles in his basket. As the salaries for these guys start to escalate in the coming years, we're going to see a good handful of these, and we're going to have to start getting a lot more production out of our drafts than we have for the last two years.

I'm just trying to bring a little perspective folks.

People are freaking out, and getting offended by the 11th starter getting cut. IN THE NFL :!: (You know. Not For Long.)

If not Tony McDaniel? Who was the worst starter on the defense last year?

I'm seriously curious.

Ranking best to worst IMO
Bobby
Mike B
Sherm
Earl (had a down year for Earl)
Kam
Mebane (Until he got hurt)
Avril
Maxwell
KJ
Bruce
and
Tony McDaniel bringing up the rear. Woe is the Seahawks for having to cut their 11th starter. :shock:

They are breaking up the team. /hyperbole

PS Throw in Jeremy Lane as the starting Nickel Back and Jordan Hill as the starting Nickel Rusher I would rank

Tony McDaniel 13th.

I didn't say he wasn't the 11th best starter, just that he wasn't the 11th most important. In our defense, DT is more important than any LB spot and possibly the second corner since Earl cheats that direction.

Simply not true. The Seahawks have played a series of s3cond tier journeyman vets at that position since Pete arrived. Alan Branch, Jason Jones, Kevin Williams, Clinton Mcdonald, Tony McDaniel and I am sure I am missing someone else.

 

[ivotuk]

Russell's contract took up more cap space (3.5 million) than expected. That's why Bobby Wagner said "Can't keep everybody." Because he knew somebody was going to get cut in order to get his contract through.

Rubin will be a good player in our system and I think he's going to surprise a lot of people. Holmgren seemed to miss on a lot of things, but oddly DTs were not one of them and IIRC, he's the reason Rubin ended up in Cleveland.


Want to hear about the 3.5 million number? Listen to Clayton on with Bob, Groz and Tom last Friday:


SYNOPSIS: "Cap hit is 8.475....they were hoping for 5...that does complicate things for Wagner."


John Clayton makes his weekly appearance on "Bob, Groz and Tom," this time live at Seahawks training camp talking about Russell Wilson's huge new deal. He also talks about what it means for Bobby Wagner.


http://mynorthwest.com/category/pod_pla ... 0and%20Tom

 

[Hawks46]

They are saying it's due to Wagner/Wilson deals but we still have cap room without the cut. I wonder if they plan to move money around for Kam quietly

There's nothing quiet in today's NFL. I'd like to see Kam get more money, even though he's one of the highest paid safeties in the league already, but the Hawks just CAN'T do this. You're inviting 3 guys on the roster, right now, to sit down during TC and demand more money.

I'm more worried about our depth with McDaniel gone. Hill is a good pass rusher, but he doesn't anchor well against the run outside of Nickle packages, and he's had a hard time staying on the field. I don't know enough about any of the younger DL backups that we have, so it has more a bit skeptical.

 

[mikeak]

People need to learn how to discuss players and the game without getting so personal.

It is acceptable to have different opinions. Just present them and state where you are coming from. Then the other person should respect that even when they disagree and they can present their opinion.

In the end someone might change their mind but many will keep to their opinion regardless of facts but if you stay friendly and informative people are a lot likelier to see the value in the information you provide.

Just saying

And I am sorry to see McDaniel go. Don't underestimate the value of rolling money over. If we save $3million now then we have it for unforseen expenses this year and we have it for next year to spend. So you constantly look at the roster and the cost of each player in a way you didn't use to when the money didn't roll over

 

[jdemps]

People need to learn how to discuss players and the game without getting so personal.

It is acceptable to have different opinions. Just present them and state where you are coming from. Then the other person should respect that even when they disagree and they can present their opinion.

In the end someone might change their mind but many will keep to their opinion regardless of facts but if you stay friendly and informative people are a lot likelier to see the value in the information you provide.

Just saying

And I am sorry to see McDaniel go. Don't underestimate the value of rolling money over. If we save $3million now then we have it for unforseen expenses this year and we have it for next year to spend. So you constantly look at the roster and the cost of each player in a way you didn't use to when the money didn't roll over

:13:

Thread hijacked over PFF argument.

Next man up.

 

[Siouxhawk]

People need to learn how to discuss players and the game without getting so personal.

It is acceptable to have different opinions. Just present them and state where you are coming from. Then the other person should respect that even when they disagree and they can present their opinion.

In the end someone might change their mind but many will keep to their opinion regardless of facts but if you stay friendly and informative people are a lot likelier to see the value in the information you provide.

Just saying

And I am sorry to see McDaniel go. Don't underestimate the value of rolling money over. If we save $3million now then we have it for unforseen expenses this year and we have it for next year to spend. So you constantly look at the roster and the cost of each player in a way you didn't use to when the money didn't roll over

Your attempt at logic and tolerance makes me so ambivalent toward you .... $@+#¥ ... your momma wears army boots!!!

Just kidding ... great post

 

[ivotuk]

Russell's contract took up more cap space (3.5 million) than expected. That's why Bobby Wagner said "Can't keep everybody." Because he knew somebody was going to get cut in order to get his contract through.

Rubin will be a good player in our system and I think he's going to surprise a lot of people. Holmgren seemed to miss on a lot of things, but oddly DTs were not one of them and IIRC, he's the reason Rubin ended up in Cleveland.


Want to hear about the 3.5 million number? Listen to Clayton on with Bob, Groz and Tom last Friday:


SYNOPSIS: "Cap hit is 8.475....they were hoping for 5...that does complicate things for Wagner."


John Clayton makes his weekly appearance on "Bob, Groz and Tom," this time live at Seahawks training camp talking about Russell Wilson's huge new deal. He also talks about what it means for Bobby Wagner.


http://mynorthwest.com/category/pod_pla ... 0and%20Tom

Well now that all of that's over, I'm going to quote myself to try and bring the thread back on topic...somewhat.

 

[kidhawk]

Russell's contract took up more cap space (3.5 million) than expected. That's why Bobby Wagner said "Can't keep everybody." Because he knew somebody was going to get cut in order to get his contract through.

Rubin will be a good player in our system and I think he's going to surprise a lot of people. Holmgren seemed to miss on a lot of things, but oddly DTs were not one of them and IIRC, he's the reason Rubin ended up in Cleveland.


Want to hear about the 3.5 million number? Listen to Clayton on with Bob, Groz and Tom last Friday:


SYNOPSIS: "Cap hit is 8.475....they were hoping for 5...that does complicate things for Wagner."


John Clayton makes his weekly appearance on "Bob, Groz and Tom," this time live at Seahawks training camp talking about Russell Wilson's huge new deal. He also talks about what it means for Bobby Wagner.


http://mynorthwest.com/category/pod_pla ... 0and%20Tom

Well now that all of that's over, I'm going to quote myself to try and bring the thread back on topic...somewhat.

I've heard Clayton quote that number, but it isn't right. I don't know if maybe he missed the fact that they lowered his salary for this year. Usually on extensions, they had been just leaving the current salary, but for Wilson they actually cut it more than half. His cap hit is well under $8 million. In fact, even before we cut McDaniel, we would have had about $2.4 million left when we signed Wagner.

McDaniel's cut wasn't necessary to sign Wagner to his deal. Schneider has a plan though, and that plan includes future transactions. Keeping a certain amount of salary cap to stick to the plan is vital, so in that light, it was likely necessary for the future of the team to make the cut, but not by league rule to sign Wagner.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

We have good players that have become great and way better in our system. Some are fair players that are great only in our system. As the turnover of the personnel in the past 5 to 6 years is finally being realized, there are some key personnel that make the system work. Others are less important although they play roles. The mantra....NEXT MAN UP...does fit the scheme here. I figured that when we had some people get into other role positions, we would be changing our roster up a little. The thing we must be aware of is the fact that some of our KEY ROLE players are gonna get aged and hurt, that is when we need to have those that are in semi key positions step up. I presume that one day we will have the right corner be the primary and the "other" side will be the role filler. I hope that is about 5 years down the road. Just something to think about as we press on thru our Superb Owl reign.

That is all.... :thirishdrinkers: :thirishdrinkers: :thirishdrinkers:


except that I am watching XLVIII at the moment.

 

[Tech Worlds]

Don't underestimate this move. He wasn't our 11th most important defensive player last season. He was probably either 7 or 8. When you can shut down the run and not have to worry about it, the entire game changes. I like Rubin a lot, I really do. But we're putting a whole lotta marbles in his basket. As the salaries for these guys start to escalate in the coming years, we're going to see a good handful of these, and we're going to have to start getting a lot more production out of our drafts than we have for the last two years.

I'm just trying to bring a little perspective folks.

People are freaking out, and getting offended by the 11th starter getting cut. IN THE NFL :!: (You know. Not For Long.)

If not Tony McDaniel? Who was the worst starter on the defense last year?

I'm seriously curious.

Ranking best to worst IMO
Bobby
Mike B
Sherm
Earl (had a down year for Earl)
Kam
Mebane (Until he got hurt)
Avril
Maxwell
KJ
Bruce
and
Tony McDaniel bringing up the rear. Woe is the Seahawks for having to cut their 11th starter. :shock:

They are breaking up the team. /hyperbole

PS Throw in Jeremy Lane as the starting Nickel Back and Jordan Hill as the starting Nickel Rusher I would rank

Tony McDaniel 13th.

I didn't say he wasn't the 11th best starter, just that he wasn't the 11th most important. In our defense, DT is more important than any LB spot and possibly the second corner since Earl cheats that direction.

Simply not true. The Seahawks have played a series of s3cond tier journeyman vets at that position since Pete arrived. Alan Branch, Jason Jones, Kevin Williams, Clinton Mcdonald, Tony McDaniel and I am sure I am missing someone else.

Red Bryant

 

[Fade]

Don't underestimate this I didn't say he wasn't the 11th best starter, just that he wasn't the 11th most important. In our defense, DT is more important than any LB spot and possibly the second corner since Earl cheats that direction.

Simply not true. The Seahawks have played a series of s3cond tier journeyman vets at that position since Pete arrived. Alan Branch, Jason Jones, Kevin Williams, Clinton Mcdonald, Tony McDaniel and I am sure I am missing someone else.

Red Bryant

Now add Ahtyba Rubin to the list. Seems like par for the course to me.

 

[massari]

So the Hawks have about 7 mill in cap space now after Wilson/Wagner.

Can someone explain why they needed to cut McDaniel?

Thanks.

 

[kidhawk]

So the Hawks have about 7 mill in cap space now after Wilson/Wagner.

Can someone explain why they needed to cut McDaniel?

Thanks.

I believe we have about $5.4 million currently under the cap after all is said and done.

My best explanation is that Schneider has a plan and he needs certain cap numbers moving forward to keep his plan in play.

They also wanted to make that trade that we saw, so they were going to have to release someone for the roster spot.

2 birds one stone

 

[netskier]

I think it was necessary because of Schneider's long range plan. Since the plan is secret, I have no more details.

I wonder if some of those details were at least alluded to in the Wilson Wagner negotiations, things like trading off salary-respect for increased probability of superbowls.

If I were Wilson, I would have given up two million this year only, if Wagner would have given up one million this year only, if Schneider could have convinced me that his plan would significantly increase the probability of a Superbowl win this season.

But, hey, that is just me being greedy for immediate Superbowl wins.

 

[hawknation2015]

So the Hawks have about 7 mill in cap space now after Wilson/Wagner.

Can someone explain why they needed to cut McDaniel?

Thanks.

I believe we have about $5.4 million currently under the cap after all is said and done.

My best explanation is that Schneider has a plan and he needs certain cap numbers moving forward to keep his plan in play.

They also wanted to make that trade that we saw, so they were going to have to release someone for the roster spot.

2 birds one stone

A lot of that 5.4 million isn't really available, because it goes toward paying bonuses, salary, and settlements for players who are released. The way Overthecap and Spotrac calculate salary cap space is by only counting the salaries of the top 51 highest paid players . . . they do not include any of the salary already paid to players below that cutoff, which makes it an inexact estimate.

Carroll was very clear during yesterday's press conference that McDaniel had to be released to make room under the cap.

 

[kidhawk]

So the Hawks have about 7 mill in cap space now after Wilson/Wagner.

Can someone explain why they needed to cut McDaniel?

Thanks.

I believe we have about $5.4 million currently under the cap after all is said and done.

My best explanation is that Schneider has a plan and he needs certain cap numbers moving forward to keep his plan in play.

They also wanted to make that trade that we saw, so they were going to have to release someone for the roster spot.

2 birds one stone

A lot of that 5.4 million isn't really available, because it goes toward paying bonuses, salary, and settlements for players who are released. The way Overthecap and Spotrac calculate salary cap space is by only counting the salaries of the top 51 highest paid players . . . they do not include any of the salary already paid to players below that cutoff, which makes it an inexact estimate.

Carroll was very clear during yesterday's press conference that McDaniel had to be released to make room under the cap.

Future bonuses are already calculated into the salary cap information if they are considered likely to be paid out. Another thing that the top 51 doesn't account for is the fact that some of those beyond that top 51 will make the team at the expense of some higher paid players, which alleviates a large portion of costs you are assuming.

The major thing is that those are all future costs that are not calculated into the salary cap until they are paid, so those numbers are not included when signing a player today.

Also, and this is the big thing, we absolutely had to cut someone to make that trade. We didn't have the open roster spot. John absolutely has a long term plan financially and he doesn't like to deviate from that plan.

I would be extremely surprised to see everyone from the top 51 salaries make the team. Expect more cuts before the season starts.

 

[hawknation2015]

So the Hawks have about 7 mill in cap space now after Wilson/Wagner.

Can someone explain why they needed to cut McDaniel?

Thanks.

I believe we have about $5.4 million currently under the cap after all is said and done.

My best explanation is that Schneider has a plan and he needs certain cap numbers moving forward to keep his plan in play.

They also wanted to make that trade that we saw, so they were going to have to release someone for the roster spot.

2 birds one stone

A lot of that 5.4 million isn't really available, because it goes toward paying bonuses, salary, and settlements for players who are released. The way Overthecap and Spotrac calculate salary cap space is by only counting the salaries of the top 51 highest paid players . . . they do not include any of the salary already paid to players below that cutoff, which makes it an inexact estimate.

Carroll was very clear during yesterday's press conference that McDaniel had to be released to make room under the cap.

Future bonuses are already calculated into the salary cap information if they are considered likely to be paid out. Another thing that the top 51 doesn't account for is the fact that some of those beyond that top 51 will make the team at the expense of some higher paid players, which alleviates a large portion of costs you are assuming.

The major thing is that those are all future costs that are not calculated into the salary cap until they are paid, so those numbers are not included when signing a player today.

Also, and this is the big thing, we absolutely had to cut someone to make that trade. We didn't have the open roster spot. John absolutely has a long term plan financially and he doesn't like to deviate from that plan.

I would be extremely surprised to see everyone from the top 51 salaries make the team. Expect more cuts before the season starts.

Cutting guys from the Top 51 and replacing them with someone from the bottom doesn't always save money either. In fact, most of the time it costs more because those players usually add more dead money.

For example, Kevin Norwood is a guy in the Top 51 right now, who is very much on the bubble. However, if you release him, you save less than $300k, because of his signing bonus, and replacing him with someone like Douglas McNeil actually takes more money away than it saves (+135k added to the current Top 51 projection).

 

[kidhawk]

Cutting guys from the Top 51 and replacing them with someone from the bottom doesn't always save money either. In fact, most of the time it costs more because those players usually add more dead money.

For example, Kevin Norwood is a guy in the Top 51 right now, who is very much on the bubble. However, if you release him, you save less than $300k, because of his signing bonus, and replacing him with someone like Douglas McNeil actually takes more money away than it saves (+135k added to the current Top 51 projection).

That is why guys that are in the first year or two of a long term contract have less chance of being cut. Teams are more apt to cut guys with less time left on their deals, or minimal signing bonuses.

Guys like McDaniel become more expendable.

If you look at the Roster right now, a guy like Morgan would save us $850k if cut and McCoy would save us $660,000 if cut. Just two quick examples of bubble guys who could easily save us some cap value.

As I always say, the cap is a fluid thing. Schneider has said on multiple occasions that he has a plan that goes out several years into the future at all times. Salary cap decisions are made all the time, not always because we can't do it under the rules, but because it won't work under the plan we are trying to keep in place long term. This is what has led to us having a lot of cap rollover the past few years. That money has helped us to sign players and prepare for the inevitable signings we just saw.

 

[Fade]

So the Hawks have about 7 mill in cap space now after Wilson/Wagner.

Can someone explain why they needed to cut McDaniel?

Thanks.

1) Its a rolling cap, every dollar that isn't used can be rolled over into the next season.

2) Need aprox. $1million dollars for when the roster goes from top 51 to --> 53.

3) Need aprox. $1 million dollars for practice squad.

4) Need cap room for replacements when players go on IR.

5) Tony McDaniel isn't worth a $3.6 million cap hit. So cut him, and sign a cheaper Vet.