The strongest position group in the 2015 draft

[hawknation2015]

There you go again.

No reason to make it personal, Kearly. I respect your opinion and insights . . . I just happen to disagree with you about one player's skill set.

I formed this opinion about Ajayi long before your OP and stated it on this board. I don't believe he reads his blockers well. I think he kicks too many runs outside, which is not something that can be done at the NFL level unless he wants to lose a bunch a yards. He's a raw product, IMO, who lacks the explosiveness and vision that a player like Lynch showed when he was at Cal.

 

[kearly]

Well it's personal for me. I don't like you, and I know the feeling is mutual if you were being honest. I do think you are a good poster and smart. But I don't like the way you interact with others. Way too snarky and needlessly argumentative for me.

I'm going to just make this easy and put you on ignore. I think that is for the best.

 

[bbsplitter]

There you go again.

No reason to make it personal, Kearly. I respect your opinion and insights . . . I just happen to disagree with you about one player's skill set.

I formed this opinion about Ajayi long before your OP and stated it on this board. I don't believe he reads his blockers well. I think he kicks too many runs outside, which is not something that can be done at the NFL level unless he wants to lose a bunch a yards. He's a raw product, IMO, who lacks the explosiveness and vision that a player like Lynch showed when he was at Cal.

Yes but where does that leave him draft-grade wise? I don't advocate for taking him in the first, but I would be fine with him in the second, even if we had to trade up to do it, or move back from our first round pick to add mid-round pick. I think he does have talent, and he does break a lot of tackles. I disagree with your "up the middle" observation, because if anything one of the things I dont like about him is he misses the cut-back lane and dives up the middle, wrong cut, but usually breaks enough tackles to get yardage. I don't think his tendency to bounce it outside is a wrong read, I think its simply instinctive and hasn't been coached out of him yet. He's not making the wrong read necessarily, usually the hole he is trying to hit up the middle really is closed... He just doesn't show patience for waiting for something to open, and simply bounces it outside. His negatives though I believe can be coached up, and even 80-90% talent wise comparable to Marshawn is worth a mid second. It obviously just depends on the front office feels.

 

[hawknation2015]

There you go again.

No reason to make it personal, Kearly. I respect your opinion and insights . . . I just happen to disagree with you about one player's skill set.

I formed this opinion about Ajayi long before your OP and stated it on this board. I don't believe he reads his blockers well. I think he kicks too many runs outside, which is not something that can be done at the NFL level unless he wants to lose a bunch a yards. He's a raw product, IMO, who lacks the explosiveness and vision that a player like Lynch showed when he was at Cal.

Yes but where does that leave him draft-grade wise? I don't advocate for taking him in the first, but I would be fine with him in the second, even if we had to trade up to do it, or move back from our first round pick to add mid-round pick. I think he does have talent, and he does break a lot of tackles. I disagree with your "up the middle" observation, because if anything one of the things I dont like about him is he misses the cut-back lane and dives up the middle, wrong cut, but usually breaks enough tackles to get yardage. I don't think his tendency to bounce it outside is a wrong read, I think its simply instinctive and hasn't been coached out of him yet. He's not making the wrong read necessarily, usually the hole he is trying to hit up the middle really is closed... He just doesn't show patience for waiting for something to open, and simply bounces it outside. His negatives though I believe can be coached up, and even 80-90% talent wise comparable to Marshawn is worth a mid second. It obviously just depends on the front office feels.

I see him as more of a lower 3rd round pick, maybe beginning of the fourth round.

 

[hawknation2015]

Well it's personal for me. I don't like you, and I know the feeling is mutual if you were being honest. I do think you are a good poster and smart. But I don't like the way you interact with others. Way too snarky for me.

I'm going to just make this easy and put you on ignore. I think that is for the best.

Hey man, I do like you. I love reading your insights and have said so many times.

Disagreeing with you does not mean I don't like you.

 

[bbsplitter]

There you go again.

No reason to make it personal, Kearly. I respect your opinion and insights . . . I just happen to disagree with you about one player's skill set.

I formed this opinion about Ajayi long before your OP and stated it on this board. I don't believe he reads his blockers well. I think he kicks too many runs outside, which is not something that can be done at the NFL level unless he wants to lose a bunch a yards. He's a raw product, IMO, who lacks the explosiveness and vision that a player like Lynch showed when he was at Cal.

Yes but where does that leave him draft-grade wise? I don't advocate for taking him in the first, but I would be fine with him in the second, even if we had to trade up to do it, or move back from our first round pick to add mid-round pick. I think he does have talent, and he does break a lot of tackles. I disagree with your "up the middle" observation, because if anything one of the things I dont like about him is he misses the cut-back lane and dives up the middle, wrong cut, but usually breaks enough tackles to get yardage. I don't think his tendency to bounce it outside is a wrong read, I think its simply instinctive and hasn't been coached out of him yet. He's not making the wrong read necessarily, usually the hole he is trying to hit up the middle really is closed... He just doesn't show patience for waiting for something to open, and simply bounces it outside. His negatives though I believe can be coached up, and even 80-90% talent wise comparable to Marshawn is worth a mid second. It obviously just depends on the front office feels.

I see him as more of a lower 3rd round pick, maybe beginning of the fourth round.

Talent-wise, who do you think he is comparable to, with running backs that have gone in that spot in previous drafts?

 

[hawknation2015]

Talent-wise, who do you think he is comparable to, with running backs that have gone in that spot in previous drafts?

That's a really good question. I'm going to have to think about that for a while because, as Kearly and others have said, he does have a lot of unique attributes. He runs with a wide base with a lot of flair and determination. And he's very good as a receiver.

I think former UCLA RB Johnathan Franklin is a pretty good comparison. He was a great receiver out of the backfield for UCLA his senior year. He also ran with a wide base and loved to kick runs outside but was not as strong between the tackles. Ajayi is bigger than Franklin and not as fast, not the same caliber athlete, but he's also more difficult to bring down. The Packers picked him up Franklin in the 4th Round in 2013. I think Ajayi should go a little higher than that because of those intangibles and his raw determination.

 

[kearly]

Well you nailed the FO's interest in Christine Michael kearly.. so I sure won't doubt you.

I just hope they are much more enamored with Todd Gurley than Ajayi who to me.. just looks like a JAG.

To be clear, like everyone else I think Gordon and Gurley are on their own tier. They are two of the better RBs prospects in the last decade. This is why I'm not really bothering to talk about them, as I think there is a 1% chance at best either one ends up a Seahawk.

Also, I am NOT saying that Ajayi is the 3rd best RB in this draft (though some draft sites rank him there). I just think that among the 2nd tier guys, he checks the most boxes for Seattle, especially for a team that is going to be looking for a guy with a Marshawn Lynch skillset. Not a Robert Turbin skillset or a Christine Michael skillset.

Lastly, Seattle has a history of "reaching" in the 1st and 2nd rounds, which is another reason I think this is a guy to watch for if Lynch doesn't get that contract extension mailed in by draft day.

 

[bbsplitter]

Well you nailed the FO's interest in Christine Michael kearly.. so I sure won't doubt you.

I just hope they are much more enamored with Todd Gurley than Ajayi who to me.. just looks like a JAG.

To be clear, like everyone else I think Gordon and Gurley are on their own tier. They are two of the better RBs prospects in the last decade. This is why I'm not really bothering to talk about them, as I think there is a 1% chance at best either one ends up a Seahawk.

Also, I am NOT saying that Ajayi is the 3rd best RB in this draft (though some draft sites rank him there). I just think that among the 2nd tier guys, he checks the most boxes for Seattle, especially for a team that is going to be looking for a guy with a Marshawn Lynch skillset. Not a Robert Turbin skillset or a Christine Michael skillset.

Lastly, Seattle has a history of "reaching" in the 1st and 2nd rounds, which is another reason I think this is a guy to watch for if Lynch doesn't get that contract extension mailed in by draft day.

So if Gurley/Gordon were still on the board you would select them over Ajayi? Or would you trade back, and select Ajayi?

 

[ImTheScientist]

He is ok....I'm not a huge fan.

Kearlys Ajayi = kearlys Ryan Swope?

Who's your white whale, Ahab?

Haven't decided just yet, but I can keep you in the loop via PM since you seem interested. A few years back it was Russell Wilson.

 

[kearly]

So if Gurley/Gordon were still on the board you would select them over Ajayi? Or would you trade back, and select Ajayi?

I would give two firsts and two fist pumps for Gordon, who I think could be the next mega star RB. Our team would definitely have to adjust for him since he's not anything like Marshawn, but it would be worth it.

I'd gladly pay the #31 for Gurley though obviously it would be a sizable risk given his injury. I think even without Lynch Seattle can afford to redshirt a RB and go with Turbin and Michael for 2015 if need be.

I would be okay with Ajayi at #31, but only because I think this year's 1st round is one of the weakest in a long time, and also because historically late 1st round picks tend to be not that great. I'd be happy to get Ajayi at #63 and ultra-pumped to get him at #95. I think he will probably end up drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round by some team.

 

[hawknation2015]

So if Gurley/Gordon were still on the board you would select them over Ajayi? Or would you trade back, and select Ajayi?

I would give two firsts and two fist pumps for Gordon, who I think could be the next mega star RB. Our team would definitely have to adjust for him since he's not anything like Marshawn, but it would be worth it.

I'd gladly pay the #31 for Gurley though obviously it would be a sizable risk given his injury. I think even without Lynch Seattle can afford to redshirt a RB and go with Turbin and Michael for 2015 if need be.

I would be okay with Ajayi at #31, but only because I think this year's 1st round is one of the weakest in a long time, and also because historically late 1st round picks tend to be not that great. I'd be happy to get Ajayi at #63 and ultra-pumped to get him at #95. I think he will probably end up drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round by some team.

TWO firsts for Gordon?!? OK, Kearly.

 

[Spleenhawk2.0]

So if Gurley/Gordon were still on the board you would select them over Ajayi? Or would you trade back, and select Ajayi?

I would give two firsts and two fist pumps for Gordon, who I think could be the next mega star RB. Our team would definitely have to adjust for him since he's not anything like Marshawn, but it would be worth it.

I'd gladly pay the #31 for Gurley though obviously it would be a sizable risk given his injury. I think even without Lynch Seattle can afford to redshirt a RB and go with Turbin and Michael for 2015 if need be.

I would be okay with Ajayi at #31, but only because I think this year's 1st round is one of the weakest in a long time, and also because historically late 1st round picks tend to be not that great. I'd be happy to get Ajayi at #63 and ultra-pumped to get him at #95. I think he will probably end up drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round by some team.

Agree with you 100% on Ajayi. I am a big fan - but I am also liking many other RB prospects in this draft. I wouldn't mind Coleman or Yates either.

I actually believe there is a strong possibility that Gurley makes it to #31. I think that this could be one of the hardest drafts to predict ever. So much parity between picks 15 and 80. I could see Gurley dropping to #31 and Seattle still passing. there will be so much RB value in rounds 2 and 3 that the FO may believe they can get similar talent in later rounds, and draft out of pure need in round one - especially positions that Seattle has not traditionally targeted in the first (DT, LG, CB)

 

[scutterhawk]

I don't think Schneider was talking specifically about Ajayi when he was referring to the tremendous overall talent in this RB class -- Gurley, Gordon, Tevin Coleman, Duke Johnson, T.J. Yeldon, Ajayi, Buck Allen, Mike Davis, etc.

I don't either, I just think Ajayi is probably the leading option. That is unless Gurley or Gordon is sitting there at #31, which I'd give maybe a 1% chance of happening.

With Lynch's importance to Cable's O-Line run blocking Schemes, do you think JS might be willing to move up for either Gurley or Gordon, to maybe set the Seahawks up with another power-back to be Lynch's successor :?:

 

[McGruff]

I agree with Kearly on Gordon, but disagree on Ajayi. IMO he's probably the 7th or 8th on my RB list.

 

[hawknation2015]

Karlos Williams ran an officially-timed 4.48 40 at 6'1, 230 lbs.

He has off-the-field concerns that have caused his stock to plummet over the last year, but his burst and power are intriguing.

 

[Timmahawk]

Here's my 2nd tier guys that I'm going to be keeping an eye on:
Jay Ajayi - Boise St -
Javorius "Buck" Allen - USC
Karlos Williams - Florida St
Mike Davis - South Carolina
David Johnson - Northern Iowa

Karlos Williams and David Johnson had great "speed scores" http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?stor.../viewtopic.php?f=5&t=87368&p=745660#p745660"}

I need to see how these guys do with pass pro, as well as ball security. Karlos is raw, and has had off field issues, but I see him as a 4-5 rd guy we could stash even with Lynch back.

 

[hawknation2015]

Here's my 2nd tier guys that I'm going to be keeping an eye on:
Jay Ajayi - Boise St -
Javorius "Buck" Allen - USC
Karlos Williams - Florida St
Mike Davis - South Carolina
David Johnson - Northern Iowa

Karlos Williams and David Johnson had great "speed scores" http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?stor.../viewtopic.php?f=5&t=87368&p=745660#p745660"}

I need to see how these guys do with pass pro, as well as ball security. Karlos is raw, and has had off field issues, but I see him as a 4-5 rd guy we could stash even with Lynch back.

David Johnson can really scoot for a RB of his size. He kind of runs like Marcus Allen.

He's one of those guys I would prefer to Ajayi because of his superior vision, acceleration, and cutting ability.

[youtube]pjRwXHZ6LtQ[/youtube]

Michael Robinson just said on NFL Live that he thought Jeremy Langford was the RB who impressed him the most today.

 

[Hawks46]

I'd say the best positional group for this year looks to be the WR class. There are going to be guys that are going to be drafted in the 3rd round and will make an immediate impact on an NFL field.

Not just the measurables, but the hands and positional drills. Also the size, good grief. There are some real physical freaks in this draft.

 

[hawknation2015]

Well you nailed the FO's interest in Christine Michael kearly.. so I sure won't doubt you.

I just hope they are much more enamored with Todd Gurley than Ajayi who to me.. just looks like a JAG.

I will just quote another poster on this one . . .

First off it was rumored for about two weeks that Seattle was taking Michael, so don't break your arm patting yourself on the back Kearly, anyone who paid attention knew it was a major possibility. Second I liked what I saw from CM in the pre season, but I still want to see it in a real game before I'm convinced he's the guy to take over. The player I really wanted was Dddie Lacy, and we had a shot at and traded down, allowing Green Bay to snag him. It remains to be seen if that was the right move, but so far it looks like it wasn't.