The one position we've never had a "star" at.

[rcaido]

Wilson was voted Top 100 player every season.

I posted this awhile back.

2013 #11 QB & #51 overall player (Manning, Brady, Erin, Brees, Griiffin, Ryan, Flacco, Luck, Manning, Newton)

2014 #5 & #20 overall (Manning, Brady, Brees, Erin)

2015 #5 & #22 overall (Erin, Brady, Manning, Luck)

2016 #5 & #17 overall (Newton, Brady, Erin, Palmer) I think Wilson should have been top 3. The last half season was one of the best

2017 #8 & #24 overall (Brady, Erin, Ryan, Carr, Prescot, Brees, Rapeburger)

2018 #5 & #11 overall (Brady, Wentz, Brees, Erin) Should have been offensive player of the year or maybe mvp, lead the league in TDs, lead the seahawks in rushing, and responsible for like 90% of the points that year. Sadly we couldn't kick fgs

2019 #7 & #25 overall (Brees, Mahomes, Brady, Erin, Rivers, Luck) Not sure what happen here, he should have been ranked #2 behind Mahomes. He was equally as good as Brees, he was better then Brady, Erin, Rivers, & Luck) "Carried" the team to the playoffs too, unlike Erin 6-9-1 record.

2020 #2 & #2 overall (Jackson)

2021 #5 & #12 (Mahomes, Erin, Brady, Allen)If Wilson didn't get "handcuffed" maybe he breaks the NFL record for TDs.

2022 #11 & #61 overall (Brady, Erin, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Burrows, Stafford, Jackson, Herbert, Prescot, Murray)


Wilson seem pretty consistent being in the top 5 QB behind Manning, Brady, Brees, & Erin) & was Top 100 player all his career except this year probably.

 

[RiverDog]

Wilson was voted Top 100 player every season.

I posted this awhile back.

2013 #11 QB & #51 overall player (Manning, Brady, Erin, Brees, Griiffin, Ryan, Flacco, Luck, Manning, Newton)

2014 #5 & #20 overall (Manning, Brady, Brees, Erin)

2015 #5 & #22 overall (Erin, Brady, Manning, Luck)

2016 #5 & #17 overall (Newton, Brady, Erin, Palmer) I think Wilson should have been top 3. The last half season was one of the best

2017 #8 & #24 overall (Brady, Erin, Ryan, Carr, Prescot, Brees, Rapeburger)

2018 #5 & #11 overall (Brady, Wentz, Brees, Erin) Should have been offensive player of the year or maybe mvp, lead the league in TDs, lead the seahawks in rushing, and responsible for like 90% of the points that year. Sadly we couldn't kick fgs

2019 #7 & #25 overall (Brees, Mahomes, Brady, Erin, Rivers, Luck) Not sure what happen here, he should have been ranked #2 behind Mahomes. He was equally as good as Brees, he was better then Brady, Erin, Rivers, & Luck) "Carried" the team to the playoffs too, unlike Erin 6-9-1 record.

2020 #2 & #2 overall (Jackson)

2021 #5 & #12 (Mahomes, Erin, Brady, Allen)If Wilson didn't get "handcuffed" maybe he breaks the NFL record for TDs.

2022 #11 & #61 overall (Brady, Erin, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Burrows, Stafford, Jackson, Herbert, Prescot, Murray)


Wilson seem pretty consistent being in the top 5 QB behind Manning, Brady, Brees, & Erin) & was Top 100 player all his career except this year probably.

Using your own numbers for the QB position ranking, Russell's average during that span was 6.4. IMO that's not elite. Elite is top 3, maybe top 4. The further you push that number out, the more QB's that can arguably be included in the category, and in addition to Brady, Brees, Manning, and Rodgers, you have to start considering QB's like Worthlessburger, Ryan, Rivers, Stafford, et al as being 'elite' QB's.

And I'm still waiting to hear how Russell "shattered" all NFL records.

 

[RiverDog]

Yeah he was arguably top 2-3 for a stretch and should've won the mvp over Cam as he was better than Cam in almost every way. The voting in the NFL is goofy with only one vote per voter. His first ten years in the league statistically are all time great. His career passer rating, int %, touchdowns and playoff success is near the very top as well. If Russ wasn't elite then I don't know what is at the position. He was terrible last year and may be terrible again but he was an absolute monster in his prime

With the exception of one or maybe two seasons, I wouldn't have considered Russell to be top 2 or 3 at his position. According to @rcaido numbers, there was just one season in which Russell was ranked above the #5 QB. You're firmly in the minority if you think that he was "top 2-3 for a stretch."

Again, according to @rcaido numbers, Russell's best season was in 2020 when he was ranked the #2 overall QB. But do you remember what happened in the playoffs that season and how Russell performed? We were one and done, losing at home in the wild card round to a team we had beaten handily just two weeks earlier. Russell played poorly, going 11-27 for just 174 yard with 2 TD's and 1 INT, taking 5 sacks. Not exactly elite quarterback play.

I agree that the NFL's system for determining the MVP was "goofy" (they changed it last year), but the fact remains that out of 50 votes per season, Russell didn't receive a single vote for MVP. That's 0-500. Sorry, that's not the mark of an 'elite' quarterback.

 

[Lagartixa]

With the exception of one or maybe two seasons, I wouldn't have considered Russell to be top 2 or 3 at his position. According to @rcaido numbers, there was just one season in which Russell was ranked above the #5 QB. You're firmly in the minority if you think that he was "top 2-3 for a stretch."

Again, according to @rcaido numbers, Russell's best season was in 2020 when he was ranked the #2 overall QB. But do you remember what happened in the playoffs that season and how Russell performed? We were one and done, losing at home in the wild card round to a team we had beaten handily just two weeks earlier. Russell played poorly, going 11-27 for just 174 yard with 2 TD's and 1 INT, taking 5 sacks. Not exactly elite quarterback play.

Further, ranking Wilson as the second-best QB in the league in the 2020 regular season in the first place is utter nonsense.

By passing DVOA (a measure of play-by-play efficiency), Wilson was 13th in the league in 2020. By passing DYAR (a measure of value produced over the season), he was 11th. By rushing DVOA, Wilson was ninth among QBs. By rushing DYAR, he was third among QBs, but the value produced wasn't enough to make him one of the top QBs in the league because his passing value was so far below those of the league leaders. By passer rating, Wilson was seventh in the league in 2020. By QBR, he was eighth. By ANY/A, he was 16th.
Anyone who wants to point to the 2020 season as an argument that Wilson was an "elite" QB, then you have to put, for example, Tannehill in a "well-above-elite" category, because Tannehill's 2020 production was way better than Wilson's in both passing and rushing.

Going through the same stats listed above for Wilson, Tannehill in 2020 was sixth in passing DVOA, sixth in passing DYAR, second among QBs in rushing DVOA and second among QBs in rushing DYAR, fifth in passer rating, fourth in QBR, and fourth in ANY/A. That is, Tannehill was significantly better by every one of these statistical measures than Wilson.

And of course, the top QBs in the league in 2020 were even better than Tannehill. Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Allen, and Watson were all clearly better in both efficiency and total production that season than Tannehill, who was clearly better than Wilson.

 

[keasley45]

Why would i need to add 2015? That's was the first year when Graham arrived and was injured 1/3 of the season. I already gave you the stats and time of possession in 2016 & 2017.

It really sound like you're just cherry picking on the receptions. Yes catches matter but so do the other metrics. That's why i added those other metrics of the TE. Catches, yards, & TDs.

You made it sound like the 2022 TE group was the most effective and not even close....Yet the stats show, they were on par on those two years...Just that in 2017 there were 50% more TDs. 111 catches to 94, that's only 17 catches difference that's about 16%. I would take the TDs over those catches and i think most objective people would too.

I'm not cherry picking. If you're comparing the Jimmy G era to now, why would you leave out the first year?

And as far as the catch stat - it is THE measure by which a TE or WR is judged. TDs are important, obviously.

I don't understand how it's not obvious the the use of the TE as a key component of the offense is vastly different now than before. And if you want to point to the Graham years as a minor blip in uptick of usage? Sure. So what we are then talking about is how our utilization now compares to our Max usage ever under the prior QB?

Any way you cut it, we went from a team that was known to not use the TE, to one that features 2 TE on the field at once, as pass catching options. And options that are used at a high rate. They caught 111 balls combined in their first year with Geno running new concepts. I'd imagine it will only go up, unless the wr Corp snuffs out opportunities.


There are quite a few articles in Denver prior to last year during camp when the topic was if/how their offense would use the TE with Russ, given his tendency to not throw there.

It's not cherrypicking. It's like getting into a statistical debate around whether or not we threw to the middle of the field well under Russ. You can point to stat sheets and completion percentage and say we were great. But anybody could see (and still see) that it was a blind spot.

 

[RiverDog]

Further, ranking Wilson as the second-best QB in the league in the 2020 regular season in the first place is utter nonsense.

By passing DVOA (a measure of play-by-play efficiency), Wilson was 13th in the league in 2020. By passing DYAR (a measure of value produced over the season), he was 11th. By rushing DVOA, Wilson was ninth among QBs. By rushing DYAR, he was third among QBs, but the value produced wasn't enough to make him one of the top QBs in the league because his passing value was so far below those of the league leaders. By passer rating, Wilson was seventh in the league in 2020. By QBR, he was eighth. By ANY/A, he was 16th.
Anyone who wants to point to the 2020 season as an argument that Wilson was an "elite" QB, then you have to put, for example, Tannehill in a "well-above-elite" category, because Tannehill's 2020 production was way better than Wilson's in both passing and rushing.

Going through the same stats listed above for Wilson, Tannehill in 2020 was sixth in passing DVOA, sixth in passing DYAR, second among QBs in rushing DVOA and second among QBs in rushing DYAR, fifth in passer rating, fourth in QBR, and fourth in ANY/A. That is, Tannehill was significantly better by every one of these statistical measures than Wilson.

And of course, the top QBs in the league in 2020 were even better than Tannehill. Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Allen, and Watson were all clearly better in both efficiency and total production that season than Tannehill, who was clearly better than Wilson.

I don't want my comments to be interpreted as coming from a Russell Wilson hater. I have great deal of respect and appreciation for his contributions to the best period of Seahawk football in franchise history. But you're exactly right.

In 2020, Russell started out the season as the early favorite for the MVP then tailed off significantly in the 2nd half of the season, including the faceplant in the playoffs. His numbers were heavily skewed. In the first 4 games of the season, Russell averaged 321 passing yards per game. In his last 4, he averaged 183 ypg. Russ had 5 games of 300+ passing yards, all coming within the first 8 games of the season.

What is it that Pete keeps saying, it's not how you start, it's how you finish? I'm pretty sure that was the thought that was going through the minds of those that voted for the MVP award.

 

[Lagartixa]

I don't want my comments to be interpreted as coming from a Russell Wilson hater. I have great deal of respect and appreciation for his contributions to the best period of Seahawk football in franchise history. But you're exactly right.

In 2020, Russell started out the season as the early favorite for the MVP then tailed off significantly in the 2nd half of the season, including the faceplant in the playoffs. His numbers were heavily skewed. In the first 4 games of the season, Russell averaged 321 passing yards per game. In his last 4, he averaged 183 ypg. Russ had 5 games of 300+ passing yards, all coming within the first 8 games of the season.

What is it that Pete keeps saying, it's not how you start, it's how you finish? I'm pretty sure that was the thought that was going through the minds of those that voted for the MVP award.

I think my position and @RiverDog's on this are pretty close. When I was writing my previous comment, I actually wrote that Wilson was actually a legit MVP candidate for the first part of the 2020 season, but I deleted that part before posting because I didn't want it to be interpreted as me saying Wilson had a tendency to start the season strong and tail off. 2015 is an example of when exactly the opposite happened, and without going back and looking at stats and game logs, I have a vague recollection of being frustrated by the team's slow starts in several seasons during the Wilson era, and the offense being part of that. However, through the first few games of 2020, I thought Wilson was finally going to get some MVP votes and deserve them.

I'll do the same thing as @RiverDog here and try to clarify my position on Wilson a little. Wilson is not one of my favorite Seahawks QBs, but he's clearly the one who produced the most at the position for the Seahawks. Adjustments for era bring Krieg, probably the second-best of all time in terms of QB production for the Seahawks (tho' I'm sure there are decent arguments for Hasselbeck being second), closer to Wilson, but my feeling without performing any calculations is that Wilson still comes out comfortably ahead. I don't think Wilson deserves to be described as having been "elite," but that doesn't mean I think he sucked and didn't belong in the league. He might get there in a few seasons, but he was pretty good for the Seahawks. Just not even close to "elite."

 

[rcaido]

Using your own numbers for the QB position ranking, Russell's average during that span was 6.4. IMO that's not elite. Elite is top 3, maybe top 4. The further you push that number out, the more QB's that can arguably be included in the category, and in addition to Brady, Brees, Manning, and Rodgers, you have to start considering QB's like Worthlessburger, Ryan, Rivers, Stafford, et al as being 'elite' QB's.

And I'm still waiting to hear how Russell "shattered" all NFL records.

If you're only going by top 3...

Then by that measure
80s -Montana, Marino, Elway - That leaves out Jim Kelly & Warren Moon in the mid 80s
90s - Montana, Marino, Elway - Then that would leave out Moon, Kelly, Young, Cunningham, Favre
00s -Manning, Brady, Favre - Then that would leave out Brees, Rodgers, Warner

As for record in the first 9 seasons he had the most TD's & Wins...His passer rating was second best all time. Most comeback wins since he been in the league.

As for those rankings i posted, i didn't agree with them as i made notes when Wilson should have been graded higher. Those votes were from the NFL players.

I mean in 2017 season, he led the league in TD's, had double the rushing yards from all our RBS (Rawls, Carson, Lacy, & Davis) He was responsible for every TD but 1. He was top 3 that year. He was top 3 in 2015. Top 3 in 2019...Top 3 in 2020 until they handcuffed him

There are 53 players per team that's 1696 players. He was ranked Top 25 most of it. That would make him in the 1.5% among his peers. Sorry that's elite

 

[rcaido]

I'm not cherry picking. If you're comparing the Jimmy G era to now, why would you leave out the first year?

And as far as the catch stat - it is THE measure by which a TE or WR is judged. TDs are important, obviously.

I don't understand how it's not obvious the the use of the TE as a key component of the offense is vastly different now than before. And if you want to point to the Graham years as a minor blip in uptick of usage? Sure. So what we are then talking about is how our utilization now compares to our Max usage ever under the prior QB?

Any way you cut it, we went from a team that was known to not use the TE, to one that features 2 TE on the field at once, as pass catching options. And options that are used at a high rate. They caught 111 balls combined in their first year with Geno running new concepts. I'd imagine it will only go up, unless the wr Corp snuffs out opportunities.


There are quite a few articles in Denver prior to last year during camp when the topic was if/how their offense would use the TE with Russ, given his tendency to not throw there.

It's not cherrypicking. It's like getting into a statistical debate around whether or not we threw to the middle of the field well under Russ. You can point to stat sheets and completion percentage and say we were great. But anybody could see (and still see) that it was a blind spot.

i wasn't comparing Jimmy G era. I was just providing 2 seasons that the Seahawks was comparable to last year. You said we never used the TE effectively and not even close. Those two seasons are comparable to last if not better. I rather have 50% more TDs then 16% more catches.

 

[Ozzy]

With the exception of one or maybe two seasons, I wouldn't have considered Russell to be top 2 or 3 at his position. According to @rcaido numbers, there was just one season in which Russell was ranked above the #5 QB. You're firmly in the minority if you think that he was "top 2-3 for a stretch."

Again, according to @rcaido numbers, Russell's best season was in 2020 when he was ranked the #2 overall QB. But do you remember what happened in the playoffs that season and how Russell performed? We were one and done, losing at home in the wild card round to a team we had beaten handily just two weeks earlier. Russell played poorly, going 11-27 for just 174 yard with 2 TD's and 1 INT, taking 5 sacks. Not exactly elite quarterback play.

I agree that the NFL's system for determining the MVP was "goofy" (they changed it last year), but the fact remains that out of 50 votes per season, Russell didn't receive a single vote for MVP. That's 0-500. Sorry, that's not the mark of an 'elite' quarterback.

I'll agree to disagree. People around the leage, execs, players all would call Russ elite before his disastrous stretch. I think its possible your dislike of him is tainting your view of him. If I'm wrong I apologize but Russ, playing in a system that wouldn't allow video game numbers was an absolute monster. Heck his first ten years in the league he is top 5 of all time in almost every category. Its Marino, Payton, Russ, Mahomes and Rodgers. He was #2 in Passer rating and first in a ton of other categories. If that isn't elite then I would hate to see what the bar is. ONly Manning and Marino are elite?

You're also isolating games to prove your point. You can do that with every QB. Brady had some terrible playoff games, does that mean he's not elite either?

Again not trying to be rude because we're all throwing darts here but it seems like you're trying to twist it to fit your narrative. Maybe I am too but I know just about everyone around the league would agree with me during his career with Seattle. If someone wants to say he sucks now, then its completely fair because he was terrible last year and wasn't great towards the end here either.

So again I'll agree to disagree because its ok we all dont have to agree but that's how I see it.

 

[Ozzy]

If you're only going by top 3...

Then by that measure
80s -Montana, Marino, Elway - That leaves out Jim Kelly & Warren Moon in the mid 80s
90s - Montana, Marino, Elway - Then that would leave out Moon, Kelly, Young, Cunningham, Favre
00s -Manning, Brady, Favre - Then that would leave out Brees, Rodgers, Warner

As for record in the first 9 seasons he had the most TD's & Wins...His passer rating was second best all time. Most comeback wins since he been in the league.

As for those rankings i posted, i didn't agree with them as i made notes when Wilson should have been graded higher. Those votes were from the NFL players.

I mean in 2017 season, he led the league in TD's, had double the rushing yards from all our RBS (Rawls, Carson, Lacy, & Davis) He was responsible for every TD but 1. He was top 3 that year. He was top 3 in 2015. Top 3 in 2019...Top 3 in 2020 until they handcuffed him

There are 53 players per team that's 1696 players. He was ranked Top 25 most of it. That would make him in the 1.5% among his peers. Sorry that's elite

That last stat is crazy. He was responsable for every touchdown but one, carrying a team but isn't elite.....I don't get it. The guy was a monster.

 

[RiverDog]

If you're only going by top 3...

Then by that measure
80s -Montana, Marino, Elway - That leaves out Jim Kelly & Warren Moon in the mid 80s
90s - Montana, Marino, Elway - Then that would leave out Moon, Kelly, Young, Cunningham, Favre
00s -Manning, Brady, Favre - Then that would leave out Brees, Rodgers, Warner

As for record in the first 9 seasons he had the most TD's & Wins...His passer rating was second best all time. Most comeback wins since he been in the league.

As for those rankings i posted, i didn't agree with them as i made notes when Wilson should have been graded higher. Those votes were from the NFL players.

I mean in 2017 season, he led the league in TD's, had double the rushing yards from all our RBS (Rawls, Carson, Lacy, & Davis) He was responsible for every TD but 1. He was top 3 that year. He was top 3 in 2015. Top 3 in 2019...Top 3 in 2020 until they handcuffed him

There are 53 players per team that's 1696 players. He was ranked Top 25 most of it. That would make him in the 1.5% among his peers. Sorry that's elite

I didn't say top 3. I said top 3, maybe 4. And splitting them up by decade, although convenient, isn't always an accurate way to rank them, but I'll play your game anyway.

In the 80's, I wouldn't consider either Moon or Kelly as 'elite.' Neither won a league or SB MVP nor are their stats very impressive, particularly Kelly's. I'd put Fouts in that company before I'd elevate either of those guys. Montana, Marino, and Fouts.

In the 90's, I might stretch it to 5 with Montana, Marino, Elway, Favre, and Young, but as I said earlier, splitting them up by decade isn't a fair way to measure them against each other. Elway and Young had to spend some time wearing a dunce cap by virtue of not being able to win the big one and weren't considered elite until late in their careers. Cunningham? Don't make me laugh. He's the answer to a trivia question.

00's I wouldn't have included Brees or Rodgers until the next decade when they won their awards and started accumulating stats. That leaves Manning, Warner, and Brady.

'10's I'd go with Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Brees.

 

[Seahawker]

My initial reaction assumed star or elite meant a baseline of HOFer as a threshold. As I do not think RW gets fitted for a gold jacket any time soon, we are just arguing semantics about a well above average QB who was blessed with one of the best defenses ever & ML.

The Seahawks should have drafted Moon and rode him for 15 years, his last waning years were the closest we've ever had to an elite QB. Love Zorn, Mudbone, Hass, RW & Geno but HOF elite?, no.

 

[Ozzy]

My initial reaction assumed star or elite meant a baseline of HOFer as a threshold. As I do not think RW gets fitted for a gold jacket any time soon, we are just arguing semantics about a well above average QB who was blessed with one of the best defenses ever & ML.

The Seahawks should have drafted Moon and rode him for 15 years, his last waning years were the closest we've ever had to an elite QB. Love Zorn, Mudbone, Hass, RW & Geno but HOF elite?, no.

The defense had nothing to do with his stats which were again near best ever to start a career though and Lynch owes Wilson as much credit as Wilson owes Lynch. They both because of the threat of their running ability hleped each other. Lynch's YPC were pretty average until Russ came along and the read option blew up. Russ was one of the best rushing guarterbacks in the league.

Warren Moon was absolutely elite in his prime. Still one of my favorite quarterbacks of all time. I wish Seattle had done exactly what you said too.

 

[Seahawker]

The defense had nothing to do with his stats which were again near best ever to start a career though and Lynch owes Wilson as much credit as Wilson owes Lynch. They both because of the threat of their running ability hleped each other. Lynch's YPC were pretty average until Russ came along and the read option blew up. Russ was one of the best rushing guarterbacks in the league.

Warren Moon was absolutely elite in his prime. Still one of my favorite quarterbacks of all time. I wish Seattle had done exactly what you said too.

That defense got the ball in Russell's hands a bunch, with an average defense RW would have had to play far more hero ball than he was capable of. Not utilizing Lynch just one time proves his importance to that team and that play sadly tarnishes RW's legacy at the same time. Like I said semantics, but without Beastmode & that LOB defense RW never goes to 2 SB's or gets traded for that much treasure... IMHO.

 

[RiverDog]

My initial reaction assumed star or elite meant a baseline of HOFer as a threshold. As I do not think RW gets fitted for a gold jacket any time soon, we are just arguing semantics about a well above average QB who was blessed with one of the best defenses ever & ML.

The Seahawks should have drafted Moon and rode him for 15 years, his last waning years were the closest we've ever had to an elite QB. Love Zorn, Mudbone, Hass, RW & Geno but HOF elite?, no.

Although he did so because he was told that he wouldn't be taken until the later rounds and due almost exclusively to a huge bias against black quarterbacks, Warren Moon signed with the Edmonton Eskimos of the CFL a few weeks before the 1978 NFL draft. At the time, the Hawks were pretty happy with Jim Zorn, so it's unlikely that we would have drafted Moon even if he was available.

But I wish we would have made a bigger effort to sign him when he decided to make the leap to the NFL in 1984. The problem was that Hugh Campbell, Moon's coach at Edmonton, was the HC with the then Houston Oilers.

 

[pittpnthrs]

That last stat is crazy. He was responsable for every touchdown but one, carrying a team but isn't elite.....I don't get it. The guy was a monster.

Not much to get. Since he left, he is the devil and fans make themselves forget how good he was. The guy is universes ahead of the next best Seahawk QB.

 

[Ozzy]

That defense got the ball in Russell's hands a bunch, with an average defense RW would have had to play far more hero ball than he was capable of. Not utilizing Lynch just one time proves his importance to that team and that play sadly tarnishes RW's legacy at the same time. Like I said semantics, but without Beastmode & that LOB defense RW never goes to 2 SB's or gets traded for that much treasure... IMHO.

But without Wilson we don't go to two SB's either. People forget Wilson had a bunch of game winning drives and 4th quarter theatrics in those years. He was really, really good and Pete and company deserve credit for making that marriage happen. Wilson deserves credit just as the LOB does, Lynch does and the coaching staff.

 

[pittpnthrs]

That defense got the ball in Russell's hands a bunch, with an average defense RW would have had to play far more hero ball than he was capable of. Not utilizing Lynch just one time proves his importance to that team and that play sadly tarnishes RW's legacy at the same time. Like I said semantics, but without Beastmode & that LOB defense RW never goes to 2 SB's or gets traded for that much treasure... IMHO.

That defense your talking about was only around for about 4 years. That leads to a lot of unaccounted seasons without it.

 

[RiverDog]

But without Wilson we don't go to two SB's either. People forget Wilson had a bunch of game winning drives and 4th quarter theatrics in those years. He was really, really good and Pete and company deserve credit for making that marriage happen. Wilson deserves credit just as the LOB does, Lynch does and the coaching staff.

There's no doubt that from 2012-2014, we wouldn't have had the success that we did had we not had Russell Wilson as our quarterback. He was the perfect QB for the type of team that Pete had put together, a top 3 defense and a run first, low risk offense. Russell came up with some absolutely clutch plays. No way we get within sneezing distance of either SB without RW.

But by the same token, that defense supported Russell in his early years, both statistically and otherwise, and once the LOB started to disintegrate in 2015 and when we had to rely more on Russell to carry the team, we never came close to achieving the same heights that we did during the LOB years, posting a 3-6 record in the playoffs and never making it out of the divisional round.