Tackles

[oldhawkfan]

I know that there are discussions in various threads about the ineptness of this team on Sunday. Some are blaming the defense. Some are blaming the offense. And some typically are calling for Pete’s head.

I’d like to use this space to discuss the tackle position. Losing not one but both starting tackles in a game and roughly at the same time is devastating. Until they went down, the offense was functioning well. Think about driving a sports car. Or hell any car for that matter. You can be tooling down the road at 75-80 mph with no problems. All of a sudden you get a flat and replace the flat with a spare. Back in the day, cars used to come with a fully functioning regular size tire that was essentially like the one that went flat. Now a days, cars come with space saver spares. They aren’t meant to go down the highway at 75-80 mph just like the regular tires. They are meant to get you to a place where a regular tire can be put back on.

This is what happened Sunday. Except that they didn’t lose one tire (tackle) they lost two. The backup tackles are just that, backups. It happens. All the good ones are starting for other teams. Maybe there are a few starting caliber backups sprinkled throughout the league, but it sure doesn’t look like Curhan or Forsyth fall into that category.

So here we were in the second half of the game with two space savers doing the best they could to keep from heading into the ditch. Maybe they did the best they could and kept it out of the ditch, but that car is currently sitting on the side of the road with folks walking around it wondering if the regular original tires can be fixed, replaced with an old worn out hopefully functional one (Jason Peters), or just hope that maybe these two might be able to get up to 75mph.

Maybe if only one went out, there would be some functionality. Two? Both at the tackle position? Tackle is a hard position to fill out on the roster. Looking for two once the season starts? Yikes.

We don’t know how long the starters will be out. Cross has turf toe. That’s caused other guys to miss weeks. Lucas has a weird undiagnosed knee as far as what we’ve been told.

LT and RT. Not a 4th or 5th WR. Not some guys who contribute mostly on special teams. The starting tackles. In football, everything starts up front. The tackles protect the QB.

 

[BASF]

I know that there are discussions in various threads about the ineptness of this team on Sunday. Some are blaming the defense. Some are blaming the offense. And some typically are calling for Pete’s head.

I’d like to use this space to discuss the tackle position. Losing not one but both starting tackles in a game and roughly at the same time is devastating. Until they went down, the offense was functioning well. Think about driving a sports car. Or hell any car for that matter. You can be tooling down the road at 75-80 mph with no problems. All of a sudden you get a flat and replace the flat with a spare. Back in the day, cars used to come with a fully functioning regular size tire that was essentially like the one that went flat. Now a days, cars come with space saver spares. They aren’t meant to go down the highway at 75-80 mph just like the regular tires. They are meant to get you to a place where a regular tire can be put back on.

This is what happened Sunday. Except that they didn’t lose one tire (tackle) they lost two. The backup tackles are just that, backups. It happens. All the good ones are starting for other teams. Maybe there are a few starting caliber backups sprinkled throughout the league, but it sure doesn’t look like Curhan or Forsyth fall into that category.

So here we were in the second half of the game with two space savers doing the best they could to keep from heading into the ditch. Maybe they did the best they could and kept it out of the ditch, but that car is currently sitting on the side of the road with folks walking around it wondering if the regular original tires can be fixed, replaced with an old worn out hopefully functional one (Jason Peters), or just hope that maybe these two might be able to get up to 75mph.

Maybe if only one went out, there would be some functionality. Two? Both at the tackle position? Tackle is a hard position to fill out on the roster. Looking for two once the season starts? Yikes.

We don’t know how long the starters will be out. Cross has turf toe. That’s caused other guys to miss weeks. Lucas has a weird undiagnosed knee as far as what we’ve been told.

LT and RT. Not a 4th or 5th WR. Not some guys who contribute mostly on special teams. The starting tackles. In football, everything starts up front. The tackles protect the QB.

For anyone who has not heard this advice, first time you replace your tires, save the best one that is left over as your new spare.

You do make a great point though. We need at least one of our backups to step up. I placed the blame on Andy Dickerson for their lack of preparation.

 

[hoxrox]

Curhan was a turnstyle and Forsythe wasn't much better. Not sure why Waldron didn't immediately shift to more TE sets and continue with the run game.

 

[oldhawkfan]

Curhan was a turnstyle and Forsythe wasn't much better. Not sure why Waldron didn't immediately shift to more TE sets and continue with the run game.

Maybe he didn’t get the memo that the backups suck.

 

[Wheetie]

I know that there are discussions in various threads about the ineptness of this team on Sunday. Some are blaming the defense. Some are blaming the offense. And some typically are calling for Pete’s head.

I’d like to use this space to discuss the tackle position. Losing not one but both starting tackles in a game and roughly at the same time is devastating. Until they went down, the offense was functioning well. Think about driving a sports car. Or hell any car for that matter. You can be tooling down the road at 75-80 mph with no problems. All of a sudden you get a flat and replace the flat with a spare. Back in the day, cars used to come with a fully functioning regular size tire that was essentially like the one that went flat. Now a days, cars come with space saver spares. They aren’t meant to go down the highway at 75-80 mph just like the regular tires. They are meant to get you to a place where a regular tire can be put back on.

This is what happened Sunday. Except that they didn’t lose one tire (tackle) they lost two. The backup tackles are just that, backups. It happens. All the good ones are starting for other teams. Maybe there are a few starting caliber backups sprinkled throughout the league, but it sure doesn’t look like Curhan or Forsyth fall into that category.

So here we were in the second half of the game with two space savers doing the best they could to keep from heading into the ditch. Maybe they did the best they could and kept it out of the ditch, but that car is currently sitting on the side of the road with folks walking around it wondering if the regular original tires can be fixed, replaced with an old worn out hopefully functional one (Jason Peters), or just hope that maybe these two might be able to get up to 75mph.

Maybe if only one went out, there would be some functionality. Two? Both at the tackle position? Tackle is a hard position to fill out on the roster. Looking for two once the season starts? Yikes.

We don’t know how long the starters will be out. Cross has turf toe. That’s caused other guys to miss weeks. Lucas has a weird undiagnosed knee as far as what we’ve been told.

LT and RT. Not a 4th or 5th WR. Not some guys who contribute mostly on special teams. The starting tackles. In football, everything starts up front. The tackles protect the QB.

Not to be argumentative, but a serious question. So, the guys behind them on the depth chart aren't NFL caliber players being able to contribute to gaining any more than at least 3 yards, and another garbage 9 at the end of one half? C'mon....
And if they're not, why are they on the 53?

 

[oldhawkfan]

Not to be argumentative, but a serious question. So, the guys behind them on the depth chart aren't NFL caliber players being able to contribute to gaining any more than at least 3 yards, and another garbage 9 at the end of one half? C'mon....
And if they're not, why are they on the 53?

It’s not a matter of why are they on the roster. Obviously they are good enough to make the roster of 53. The problem is that their skill set is so much lower than the starters ahead of them. I’d like to be able to attribute it to lack of playing time but both of these guys are in their third year. They were both part of the ‘21 rookie class. It’s not like they are new to the team and just don’t know the guys around them or aren’t familiar with the blocking assignments.

One can’t say it’s lack of playing time when the guys ahead of them on the depth chart started right out of the gate as rookies last year. NFL caliber players run a large gamut of talent and skill set. The NFL is full of guys that are perennial all pros and a whole lot of guys that are just jags. It takes a lot of talent and work to be a part of an NFL 53 man roster. Clearly, Forsythe and Curhan have the tools to be in the NFL. So do the guys ahead of them. The tools are just different.

For example, the starting tackles might be equipped with power saws and multiple blades at their disposal. The backups, might just be equipped with some handsaws. They each have tools, but which ones would you rather have working on your house?

To address your question at the end, why are they on the 53? That’s easy. They are better than the guys they beat out. They just aren’t as good as the guys who beat them out.

 

[Wheetie]

It’s not a matter of why are they on the roster. Obviously they are good enough to make the roster of 53. The problem is that their skill set is so much lower than the starters ahead of them. I’d like to be able to attribute it to lack of playing time but both of these guys are in their third year. They were both part of the ‘21 rookie class. It’s not like they are new to the team and just don’t know the guys around them or aren’t familiar with the blocking assignments.

One can’t say it’s lack of playing time when the guys ahead of them on the depth chart started right out of the gate as rookies last year. NFL caliber players run a large gamut of talent and skill set. The NFL is full of guys that are perennial all pros and a whole lot of guys that are just jags. It takes a lot of talent and work to be a part of an NFL 53 man roster. Clearly, Forsythe and Curhan have the tools to be in the NFL. So do the guys ahead of them. The tools are just different.

For example, the starting tackles might be equipped with power saws and multiple blades at their disposal. The backups, might just be equipped with some handsaws. They each have tools, but which ones would you rather have working on your house?

To address your question at the end, why are they on the 53? That’s easy. They are better than the guys they beat out. They just aren’t as good as the guys who beat them out.

But, 3 yards?! Is it them as backups that led to 3 yards, or the scheme and play calling? Surely they are capable enough to aid in more than 3 yards don't you think? They can share some blame for a drop in production, but certainly not to that extent. The Tackles were an issue, but moreso the play calling and not adjusting the scheme was the greater factor in my opinion.

 

[oldhawkfan]

But, 3 yards?! Is it them as backups that led to 3 yards, or the scheme and play calling? Surely they are capable enough to aid in more than 3 yards don't you think? They can share some blame for a drop in production, but certainly not to that extent. The Tackles were an issue, but moreso the play calling and not adjusting the scheme was the greater factor in my opinion.

Considering Geno completed 75% of his passes before the tackles went out and the offense scored on three straight possessions tells me everything I need to know. Starting Offensive tackles matter! Adjust all you want but when the QB has no time, what the hell are you supposed to do??!

 

[Wheetie]

Considering Geno completed 75% of his passes before the tackles went out and the offense scored on three straight possessions tells me everything I need to know. Starting Offensive tackles matter! Adjust all you want but when the QB has no time, what the hell are you supposed to do??!

Hey, I might not have the specific answer, but I would hazard a guess that close to 31 other coaching staffs in the NFL could come up with some sort of adjusted plan to gain a lot more than 3 yards with two backup NFL caliber tackles. Quick slants? Screens? Some quick tight end read routes? Anything! Again, 3 yards in a while half!! C'mon. I hear what you're saying, I'm just trying to emphasize this coaching staff's ineptitude which I believe affected the outcome a whole lot more than the tackles.

 

[oldhawkfan]

Hey, I might not have the specific answer, but I would hazard a guess that close to 31 other coaching staffs in the NFL could come up with some sort of adjusted plan to gain a lot more than 3 yards with two backup NFL caliber tackles. Quick slants? Screens? Some quick tight end read routes? Anything! Again, 3 yards in a while half!! C'mon. I hear what you're saying, I'm just trying to emphasize this coaching staff's ineptitude which I believe affected the outcome a whole lot more than the tackles.

We agree to disagree. Works for me. Maybe something different might have worked. I guess we will never know. Bring on the Lions.

 

[Wheetie]

We agree to disagree. Works for me. Maybe something different might have worked. I guess we will never know. Bring on the Lions.

Thanks for the back and forth. Off to take my wife for lunch and try to forget these guys for a while. Have a good day sir

 

[rjdriver]

Solid OP.

It's like water tight compartments on a boat. You can lose one, and it's still designed to float. You could even lose a second if you have the time to stabilize the first sieve.

But it's just not designed to lose two at the same time. The boat can't stay afloat no matter how sturdy it was built in other areas.

Especially if the iceberg is named Aaron Donald.

 

[CactusJack]

Peters & Collins???

 

[morgulon1]

Considering Geno completed 75% of his passes before the tackles went out and the offense scored on three straight possessions tells me everything I need to know. Starting Offensive tackles matter! Adjust all you want but when the QB has no time, what the hell are you supposed to do??!

Throw quick slants ,outs ,hitches instead of the routes that take time to develop.
Then mix in draws. Like in baseball :

Hit em where they ain't.