Sounders Season Thread ***YEDLIN SOLD***

[Uncle Si]

In his first season....he makes a semis (and tears up the Sounders in nearly every game with a far less experienced team? That Caleb Porter?)
You don't see the progressive style? You don't see the attack oriented play? Or four internationals unable to carry a two game tie?

Jesus man...good luck to you.

Toronto's cash expenditures come after a three year program development.. Google it.

I've seen the Sounders academy. Its a start. All the MLS teams have one. Their spending is relative as its now a requirement. The Sounders may have foreign players in the Academy. The Timbers are one of 5 clubs with loanees in their system from big Euro clubs. I won't bore you with the advantages that will lead to.
As for Sounders FC It routinely loses out on top talent to the local clubs around it ffs.... My xlub battles an NASL team for players and win. We shouldnt stand a chance against an MLS team. Instead of a collaborative effort it battles the other DAs. And despite its proximation to both BC and Asia has yet to establish a partnership with any Euro clubs

The MLS is still a decade behind bigger leagues in terms of value and play. Some clubs are taking a wholistic approach to bringing their players up to the game instead of the game down to their players.

Yedlins a nice home grown player. Sporting is set to send off three of its U18 DA players to Europe this summer, including Juventus.

Failure to move into that symbiotic relationship will only leave the club reaching at the others

But yeah...Timbers lost and Sporting foul

 

[knownone]

Hmm? They split the season series and let's face it the Sounders were in a terrible run of form at the end of the season. I won't get into the injuries or call ups. any decent team would have beat Seattle in the playoffs, the wheels had fallen off by that point. There is a reason this team needed to rebuild.

I couldn't find anything on the three year plan. I'm not doubting Toronto's ambitions, I'm also not buying them as doing anything differently or better than Seattle and will not until they prove otherwise, they haven't won anything.

Seattle's spending isn't exactly relative, they spend twice as much as most teams on their academy. Smurf probably knows the specifics better than I do but Seattle will own a lower league team in the near future. Having loanees from big clubs in your youth system? ok. It's a start but it doesn't exactly mean anything right now, I could say Seattle has the next Messi in their youth system but I can't prove it, just like you can't prove Portland is doing better than Seattle at developing youth.

 

[Uncle Si]

Its not just ambition... Its structure.

We will just see how it shakes out. I've been following Sounder soccer since I played in the Kingdome floor when I when I was 8. I see major developments in the league and soccer in general in this country. I work in it nearly full time with a Sporting affiliate. I see the progress, but more I see the ideas...the cooperation with Europe's finest.

And to wrap it back around I just personally see Sigi as a reflection of staleness. I want to see more progressiveness in the Sounders. I can tell you as much as Smurf they're behind at the moment

 

[Smurf]

Si, Let me start off with a warning. You have begun to treat those who disagree with you, like you treat Gate in the EPL thread. It's unwarranted. Ending your posts with jabs at myself and others is not cool. I know you probably didn't mean it, but thats how its coming off right now. Take a step back for a second. I honestly enjoy your opinion on the Sounders and whats going on.

now, let me continue the conversation.

1. Si, I know the majority of your apparent frustration stems from the fact you have been a Sounder since before I was born. You see the current Sounders as a Stagnation of the previous 5 Seasons, where I see it as a rebirth. Two very distinct, and opposite viewpoints.

2. Caleb Porter is a good coach. He is who I wanted prior to Portland grabbing him. I was in the Sigi out crowd before it was cool....believe it or not. However, now Porter is Scum....and that brings me to:

3. Using Portland as a reference for anything good, is not going to stick. I associate Portland with Methheads, the cause of Cancer, and all mental health related illness'. They are scum. I, flat out, as a biased Sounder will not acknowledge any accomplishments they achieve in any format. I am 100% biased in this, but their continued praise in this thread makes me sick and I would like it to stop. It certainly isn't making me like your arguments any better. They are Portland. Lets leave it at that.

4. I personally don't want any ties to European side...I really don't. The idea is that the league will catch the rest of the world's top leagues in quality. That will happen with time, and continued development. That will not happen with European sides taking our player that we have developed. Michael Bradley, IMO, is the single biggest signing of this league since David Beckham. American players are wanting to play in MLS, and they are now getting paid appropriately to do so.

5. Si is correct RE: Toronto. This has been coming. Their spending spree was a calculated and well Executed plan. The same man that brought Beckham to MLS is responsible for Defoe, Bradley, Gilberto and DeRo. I don't think they have enough to get it done this season. But in the future they will progress and be a very dangerous team.

6. News coming out tonight that the MLS Ref strike is over. They should return to the field this weekend. Perhaps this will mean the Sounders get hacked less...or at least we see more cards for it...

7. Seattle already owns and operates a PDL team (Sounders U-23) which allows academy products to play in a club oriented invironment whilst they also develop in college. Yedlin, Okoli and Kovar all played for that club in route to becoming first team players. That team is lead by Head Coach Darren Sawatzky.

8. The Sounders will be entering the fray of the USL Pro (between MLS and PDL in terms of quality) in the near future. They will be joining in a similar fashion to what LA Galaxy are doing with Galaxy II. Of MLS Clubs ONLY the Galaxy have formed a USL Pro team on their own. Some clubs have become affiliated with existing USL Pro Clubs.

 

[Uncle Si]

I dont see the jabs Smurf. I havent called anyone names. Theres is an element of Gate in this thread though...

"Portland is playing an innovative system"---Portland lost...Portland causes cancer and steals money from church boxes.

"Sporting has a very organized structure for development"----they just foul....

I mean come on

MLS teams will have or already do have 7 and 8 Smurf. The PDL at this point serves as the MLS academy/reserve league (for its older players, the DA still serves for youth leagues. There are currently upwards of 56 teams in the PDL. Nearly double of 4 years ago). The use of the DA and PDL very much mirrors the standard set up in England. Note that this isnt new. The Sounders DA is 5 years old at least. The USL will serve as junior pro league if you will. Like arena football league, or more like the semi pro baseball teams (not minor leagues). If the MLS drew more talented players they would all associate with these teams. Truth is the USL (and NASL) doesn't offer much of a resource yet.

3. Really? So Portlands off the table (Gate?) I doubt Sounders FC management shares your disdain.

4....that's a bit naive. But you're welcome to your opinion. Europe is coming (hell, they're here). The relationship if embraced can only help progress the game in this nation. It needs to be looked at from a national perspective in my mind and not just a club one.

I'd like to elaborate on this as i see this as why the Sigi thing really bothers me. I will say this, European and South American clubs are investing time, money, coaches and players into the MLS in a hopes that this league can stand as another resource for the world's best leagues. This isnt a bad thing. While the US may lose a dozen or so players a year in this relationship, what it gets back is exponential. City and Chelsea, for example, recently sent a couple highly touted youth players to the MLS as "loanees". They are playing at clubs in which their is already a coaching and developmental relationship. P*%!land is one of the clubs that embraces this (and I'm sure Caleb Porter is a main reason why). These players will help bring up the game at those clubs around them. As more of these players come over, the better the game gets. More competition, means more urgency at our youth levels. I think you would all be astonished at the level of coaching going on from u8-16. But, the gap in talent is massive.

Its interesting that you view Bradley as the biggest move the MLS has ever made. I find it endemic of this same antiquated approach to the game as I do keeping Sigi around. Bradley epitomizes US Soccer. He may be our best current product. He's industrious, hard working, "dug in".... but he lacks the same technical abilities that a Jordan Henderson, Jack Wilshere, Ross Barkley (English players who fill the same role as Bradley in Englands side). In fact, he's not close. Bradley represents both the success and failure of the US set up. Dempsey is our most technical player, and is nowhere near the level of his European counterparts. He's had a couple nice goal scoring years with Fulham, very true. But this nations soccer programs have yet to develop a world class player. watching our best slink back home is somewhat defeating, especially with a World cup approaching.

It will be very interesting to watch us with Germany and Portugal. Germany's youth development surpassed even the Spanish over the last 8 years. This is their golden generation(s). I look forward to watching us try and compete with them. Heck, they have players like Max Meyer, Draxler, Goetze who at 18, 20 and 21 are already light years ahead of any dynamic player this nation has ever produced. Ony Goetze would be considered for the first 11 in Germany, such is the depth of their program.

anyways... i hope my angst towards Sigi makes sense. I guess I use his approach as a reflection of the same staleness I feel soccer in this country needs to move away from. We've had 30 years of the same and seemed content with its rewards. however, the investment in the youth programs require a vastly different approach at the Senior levels, or we are just wasting our time.

 

[knownone]

So you don't like Sigi because he's not European? Seriously the guy is one of the best at developing young talent in this league. This isn't Europe, Sigi should be judged for the product on the field, not your micro-analyzing of USA soccer as a whole.

Developing the lower leagues and bringing in talent like Michael Bradley does as much or more for competition and development than bringing in a few highly touted European youngsters.

 

[Uncle Si]

So you don't like Sigi because he's not European? Seriously the guy is one of the best at developing young talent in this league. This isn't Europe, Sigi should be judged for the product on the field, not your micro-analyzing of USA soccer as a whole.

Developing the lower leagues and bringing in talent like Michael Bradley does as much or more for competition and development than bringing in a few highly touted European youngsters.

Thats what you got from all that?

christ on a bike....

I've watched the Sounders under Sigi get thumped the last couple years. we are watching teams pass the Sounders by, technically and tactically... nothing to do with Europe (is Caleb Porter European?)

forget it. keep your head where it is and keep the excuses. honestly could care less at this point. Done repeating myself to you, you're not reading anyways

 

[knownone]

So you don't like Sigi because he's not European? Seriously the guy is one of the best at developing young talent in this league. This isn't Europe, Sigi should be judged for the product on the field, not your micro-analyzing of USA soccer as a whole.

Developing the lower leagues and bringing in talent like Michael Bradley does as much or more for competition and development than bringing in a few highly touted European youngsters.

Thats what you got from all that?

christ on a bike....

English a second language then?

forget it. keep your head where it is

What am I supposed to take away from that? You're rambling incoherently, drawing a wide range of conclusions as to why you don't like Sigi, because he represents what you perceive is wrong with US soccer as a whole. Am I wrong?

 

[Uncle Si]

What didnt you understand? What was too incoherent for you? That the topic went deeper than just Sigi? To the Sounders as an organization? to soccer as a sport in this country? Was that too "broad" for you? Back when I compared Sigi's team to Calebs you so smartly pointed out that Portland lost their next round.... brilliant juice. does it somehow take away from Sigi getting outcoached, again? Despite the ridiculousness of that we carried on...

But on his own, he's been shown the door in major competitions the last three years. His team was trounced its last time out in CONCACAF... but somehow one success despite regular beatings is a good thing? he's made little tactical adjustments to his team, and this offseason brought in Kenny Cooper, where he has him out wide. His midfield has made little to no adaptations or development in the last 3 years. he runs the same versions of a 442 that he has done since he got here. This is where the whole conversation started. its Sigi's constant inability to think other than one way.

Sigi does represent what I think is wrong with soccer in this country. (the perception is quite wide, for those that do more than watch). No, its not Europe... Caleb Porter isnt from Europe either is he? Its purely American. The rest of it was to show how far the league is going in developing itself, and how far behind the Sounders are in that (what lower leagues are you on about? The PDL? All MLS teams have a PDL team. USL? they dont even have a team there)

My point is he doesnt add anything new to a team that cant get to the next level. You can keep pointing to near misses, Open Cups and his past. More power to you. I think he's stale. I thought i "coherently" pointed out examples as to why. get gems like "Portland lost" and "Sporting fouls" and "Toronto just spent money"

 

[Uncle Si]

we will just agree to disagree at this point.

I dont like Sigi. I didnt like Holmgren at the end of his tenure.

Sometimes things get too stale. Thats how I feel the Sounders are over the last couple years. Nothing done in the offseason made me think differently.

I'll keep pulling for them.

 

[SeatownJay]

Don't feel bad, Si. I'm a Sounders fan and I don't like Sigi or the direction of the club either. I just know that it's pointless to argue about it with some people.

 

[Smurf]

I dont see the jabs Smurf. I havent called anyone names. Theres is an element of Gate in this thread though...

"Portland is playing an innovative system"---Portland lost...Portland causes cancer and steals money from church boxes.

"Sporting has a very organized structure for development"----they just foul....

I mean come on

MLS teams will have or already do have 7 and 8 Smurf. The PDL at this point serves as the MLS academy/reserve league (for its older players, the DA still serves for youth leagues. There are currently upwards of 56 teams in the PDL. Nearly double of 4 years ago). The use of the DA and PDL very much mirrors the standard set up in England. Note that this isnt new. The Sounders DA is 5 years old at least. The USL will serve as junior pro league if you will. Like arena football league, or more like the semi pro baseball teams (not minor leagues). If the MLS drew more talented players they would all associate with these teams. Truth is the USL (and NASL) doesn't offer much of a resource yet.

3. Really? So Portlands off the table (Gate?) I doubt Sounders FC management shares your disdain.

4....that's a bit naive. But you're welcome to your opinion. Europe is coming (hell, they're here). The relationship if embraced can only help progress the game in this nation. It needs to be looked at from a national perspective in my mind and not just a club one.

I'd like to elaborate on this as i see this as why the Sigi thing really bothers me. I will say this, European and South American clubs are investing time, money, coaches and players into the MLS in a hopes that this league can stand as another resource for the world's best leagues. This isnt a bad thing. While the US may lose a dozen or so players a year in this relationship, what it gets back is exponential. City and Chelsea, for example, recently sent a couple highly touted youth players to the MLS as "loanees". They are playing at clubs in which their is already a coaching and developmental relationship. P*%!land is one of the clubs that embraces this (and I'm sure Caleb Porter is a main reason why). These players will help bring up the game at those clubs around them. As more of these players come over, the better the game gets. More competition, means more urgency at our youth levels. I think you would all be astonished at the level of coaching going on from u8-16. But, the gap in talent is massive.

Its interesting that you view Bradley as the biggest move the MLS has ever made. I find it endemic of this same antiquated approach to the game as I do keeping Sigi around. Bradley epitomizes US Soccer. He may be our best current product. He's industrious, hard working, "dug in".... but he lacks the same technical abilities that a Jordan Henderson, Jack Wilshere, Ross Barkley (English players who fill the same role as Bradley in Englands side). In fact, he's not close. Bradley represents both the success and failure of the US set up. Dempsey is our most technical player, and is nowhere near the level of his European counterparts. He's had a couple nice goal scoring years with Fulham, very true. But this nations soccer programs have yet to develop a world class player. watching our best slink back home is somewhat defeating, especially with a World cup approaching.

It will be very interesting to watch us with Germany and Portugal. Germany's youth development surpassed even the Spanish over the last 8 years. This is their golden generation(s). I look forward to watching us try and compete with them. Heck, they have players like Max Meyer, Draxler, Goetze who at 18, 20 and 21 are already light years ahead of any dynamic player this nation has ever produced. Ony Goetze would be considered for the first 11 in Germany, such is the depth of their program.

anyways... i hope my angst towards Sigi makes sense. I guess I use his approach as a reflection of the same staleness I feel soccer in this country needs to move away from. We've had 30 years of the same and seemed content with its rewards. however, the investment in the youth programs require a vastly different approach at the Senior levels, or we are just wasting our time.

Said Jabs didn't come in the form of insults...How you've ended your last 5 or so posts have been along the same lines...and I get it, you're frustrated because you don't think people are listening to your completely valid points.


USA Soccer as a whole. For the most part you're right. We aren't on par with other countries youth development systems. But we are getting there....it just appears to be slower than you'd like...which may be a byproduct of how long you've been personally pushing for such development of the system. You see the progress, you just want it to move faster, and with your experience you see a general pattern in which it needs to be done to ensure success. That's what I've taken from the "Broad US Soccer" conversation from you. You see the progression. You like it. It's slower than you'd hoped.

For me, I would take Bradley over Barkley everyday of the week...Henderson most days...and not even close on Wilshere. But thats just me.

Yeah, when it comes to Portland, I am Gate. Yep. 100% I'll admit to it. You should know that by now.




I guess Overall I see your point.

Sigi is Old world MLS living in new world MLS and is, in your opinion, holding back one of the biggest clubs in the league from future success...and while he's at it he is also hindering the development of our youth system.

It's not happening fast enough.



Did i get that right?

 

[kidhawk]

Just saw on my Seahawks app that the Sounders FC business operations will become independent from Seahawks beginning April 30, 2014. Not sure if anyone really cares, but just thought I'd put it out there for those interested who may not know.

 

[Smurf]

Just saw on my Seahawks app that the Sounders FC business operations will become independent from Seahawks beginning April 30, 2014. Not sure if anyone really cares, but just thought I'd put it out there for those interested who may not know.

Yep, Part owner and GM Adrian Hanauer said: "It's time to take the training wheels off."

 

[Uncle Si]

Yeah Smurf...that sums it up well..

You'd really take Bradley over Henderson/Barkley/Wilshere?

 

[Smurf]

I'd take Bradley over Barkley.

It's a toss up between Henderson and Bradley.

and I'd take Wilshere every day of the week and twice on sunday.

I'd take Ramsey over Bradley too.

 

[Smurf]

FYI, Tomorrows game has been postponed due to unsafe conditions for the fans due to snow accumulation on the roof. The game will be played Sunday at 1pm. The game will be on JoeTV locally.

 

[SeatownJay]

Dempsey's received a two-match ban for violent conduct.

 

[Smurf]

Dempsey's received a two-match ban for violent conduct.

Shocker.

:sarcasm_off:

 

[Smurf]

anyone interested in doing a .NET chat during tomorrows game?