So What Do We Do About This Defense?

[Mad Dog]

They had the entire off-season to address the pass rush, and they screwed it up and went piecemeal and cheap. Instead of paying the likes of Greg Olsen, BJ Finney and Phillip Dorset (that's what, $13 million right there?) ... they could have and should have put the money towards Everson Griffen or traded for Yannick Ngakoue, or any number of other options across the board. Maybe they tried and it just didn't happen? I don't know.

The whole player management plan this off-season seemed weird.

.

Do you really think the price for Clowney, Griffen and Ngakoue was anywhere close to 13 million at the time we brought in Olsen, Finney and Dorsett? If you do, you don't understand how this works.


And football is a game of attrition. You are sometimes better off having great depth at as many spots as possible than having one great player than can go down at any time. So we've created very good depth at WR, OL, TE, RB so that Wilson can maintain weapons. We are going to ride him all year like the Packers ride Rogers and the Chiefs ride Mahomes. It is a way to win.

We won SB 48 because we had few injuries on a great team and we lost SB 49 because we had too many injuries on a great team. It's as simple as that.

No point in doom and glooming the off season when in the end, injuries determine a team's fate more than FO wheeling and dealing.

 

[HawkerD]

Just saw an item on Amazon for 2 pro bowl DE's going for vet minimum... :roll:

I can get pretty frustrated by PC and JC but don't you think everyone in the football personnel office is beating every bush right now trying to find something that will work under the cap. What they did in the off season is one thing but is water under the bridge. I understand...vent away.

If I was to vent it would be about the crappy early picks that have been not panned out on the D-Line. Sure some guys don't pan out but the fact that there were other more "sure things " on the board is what is really frustrating

Going forward the hawks will need to keep the high flying offense going, Limit YAC in the middle and secondary, create turnovers, etc. JC needs to keep beating those bushes and hopes something falls out.

 

[FlyingGreg]

They had the entire off-season to address the pass rush, and they screwed it up and went piecemeal and cheap. Instead of paying the likes of Greg Olsen, BJ Finney and Phillip Dorset (that's what, $13 million right there?) ... they could have and should have put the money towards Everson Griffen or traded for Yannick Ngakoue, or any number of other options across the board. Maybe they tried and it just didn't happen? I don't know.

The whole player management plan this off-season seemed weird.

.

Do you really think the price for Clowney, Griffen and Ngakoue was anywhere close to 13 million at the time we brought in Olsen, Finney and Dorsett? If you do, you don't understand how this works.

And football is a game of attrition. You are sometimes better off having great depth at as many spots as possible than having one great player than can go down at any time. So we've created very good depth at WR, OL, TE, RB so that Wilson can maintain weapons. We are going to ride him all year like the Packers ride Rogers and the Chiefs ride Mahomes. It is a way to win.

We won SB 48 because we had few injuries on a great team and we lost SB 49 because we had too many injuries on a great team. It's as simple as that.

No point in doom and glooming the off season when in the end, injuries determine a team's fate more than FO wheeling and dealing.

And what did Clowney, Griffen and Ngakoue end up signing for? I'll wait while you look it up. Were Olsen, Finney and Dorsett pressing needs?

Depth is important. Having a great pass rush is important, too. Although looking around the league so far, maybe defense isn't as critical as it used to be?

We won SB 48 because we stayed relatively healthy, but also we had head hunters rushing the passer. We also had several generational players playing on rookie contracts that were incredibly cheap. It's not as simple as just the injuries. They drafted much better building that SB team than they have since 2015, and that's just cold hard fact.

This is a discussion thread about how to fix the defense, not "doom and gloom" which is an utterly abused phrase in here. If you want to contribute to the discussion with something valuable, I'd love to see it.

I will agree with you that the philosophy seems to have been load up on offense, open up Russ, and just simply outscore anyone. It's just a radical departure from yesteryear, when Pete was all about the defense.

 

[sutz]

We're fans. All we can really do is suffer through it. :twisted:

 

[hawkfan68]

Possibly kick the tires on Robert Nkemdiche. This guy was a huge DL talent coming out of Ole Miss. He was drafted by Cards but didn’t live up to his hype. Pete loves reclamation project which Nkemdiche would be. He is currently a FA. He has all the talent, if only he can get his head straight. At this there’s not much to lose.

 

[jammerhawk]

Of course the narrative is more about Pete and 3rd and 1 and RW’s failed bomb to Lockett.

The O scored 35 points against what was the best D in the AFC last season.

The Hawks pass D had a few critical problems Sunday night. Diggs out DSQ, Blair out ACL, Irvin out ACL. Starting FS out, starting NCB out, and best pass rusher out fails to be noticed here.but the DC is to be faulted for not being able to adjust. OK, sure, whatever.

I’m not sure that Coach Norton is a great DC or much more than adequately competent but that situation didn’t give him many horses to work with. The comment here that Cam sucks as a QB is rubbish too. He was the league MVP not long ago. Stats wise he passed well but was weak throwing to his left, which for him looks to footwork related.

The Hawks D shut down a team that was going to run against them and did so when it was critically necessary. Of course the commentary that the passing yardage given up by them so far has merit, but in two games the team has mostly given up passing yardage late when it’s bombs away time. Before I will agree the D sucks I want to see the team get beaten b/c of poor coaching or poor scheme management.

The Patriots still have a very good team and will be a playoff team again, they are still good defensively and are very well coached. The Falcons are better than their results so far but defensively have issues.

There is a lot of knee jerk reactionary commentary in this thread.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There is a lot of knee jerk reactionary commentary in this thread.

Isn't all sports talk knee jerk?

Bottom line is our healthy D ends right now consist of Collier, Mayowa and Moore. So even if we bring Robinson off the practice squad, we're still down at least one DE, if not two to have a healthy rotation.

IMO Irvin playing too many snaps contributed to him getting hurt Sunday, he was only suppose to be a 50-60% snap count DE, but because the cupboards are bare he was playing 90%+ snaps.

This isn't knee jerk, it's a fact. We need DE's. Hell, we also need another DT, right now Ford has no backup.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

They won the game and I'm plenty happy. Nothing wrong with hating a 3rd and 1 call when Carson just got 9 yards on 2 carries. You don't have to get cute when something is working. And yes, I know this thread is about the defense 8)

 

[jammerhawk]

I agree about the 3rd and 1 and thought it was an unusual play. It was however aggressive and there has been much pissing and moaning around here about Pete's conservative play calling. The play was on RW as underneath pass plays were called according to Pete in his press conference. NE had also stacked the box with 9 anticipating a run play, so a run was likely not in the cards although that hasn't stopped Pete before.

Back on point. Apart from the very significant pass yardage given up (the league's most) the D isn't playing badly as they are winning and mostly just giving up pass yardage in garbage time. I really want to see examples of poor schemes and bad defensive play calling before I completely give up on Norton and have been quite anti-Norton before but so far I'm not seeing poor play calling or a weak defensive scheme just weak play from the players and a very weak pass rush.

 

[hawkfan68]

I believe total yards are meaningless. They only count in a fantasy football world. Teams could have 600 yards but only score 10 points. Atlanta had 500+ yards but only had 25 points. NE racked up mega yards but NE's offense only tallied 24 points. I'd like to see the Seahawk defense bring the points allowed down to around 20 points per game.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

This^^ Way too much is put in to how many yards they give up. Win on the scoreboard and make enough plays on Defense. Like they did at the end of the game on Sunday.

 

[aawolf]

For perspective, the Seahawks are Dead F'n Last in yards allowed and points allowed and passing yards allowed. RW has carried this team. At least our run defense looks good because we get large enough leads that nobody wants to run against us late in games, but we are getting TORCHED in passing yards. Maybe being down two safeties didn't help on Sunday night, but this is a big problem.

 

[jammerhawk]

I believe total yards are meaningless. They only count in a fantasy football world. Teams could have 600 yards but only score 10 points. Atlanta had 500+ yards but only had 25 points. NE racked up mega yards but NE's offense only tallied 24 points. I'd like to see the Seahawk defense bring the points allowed down to around 20 points per game.

I very much agree, but believe the only truly meaningful stats are Ws and Ls.

 

[massari]

Have no idea if the Texans would consider trading him, and for what price, but if he's able to stay healthy, he could make the DL close to respectable again.

There's a lot of ways to make cap room for him.

Go all in this season, and trade a 2nd rounder for a stud like this.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1266062371056910337[/tweet]

 

[Appyhawk]

JJ is a difference maker. No doubt about that. We should have had him a long time ago, on rookie salary. Doubt there's any way we could afford him now. It amazes me how many great football players Houston has acquired and let get away.
Picking are very slim on the market now, plus there's a lot of competition for what there is. Incredible number of injuries to headliner players these first 2 weeks.
SF must be feeling like a bullseye for the devils of football.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Too bad he can't just stay healthy. He was on his way to being one of the all time greats imo.

And....………...2-0, downplay it all you want, and that's fine. But they are 2-0.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Pete wanted a team that can protect against the run. We got that. One of the best in the NFL at it.

But we are not good against the pass and likely will struggle with mobile QBs.

You cannot be good at everything.

The problem is, if we have the lead - can we protect it?

So far, the answer is likely no. We struggle to keep a team from marching down the field to stop them from scoring.

Against the better teams, we are going to have to score 30+ points a game and hope it is enough at the end.

We do have Carson so we can run the clock down at the end of games. (No more sliding short of the first down for him though please). So it isn't like we have to go full 'Chip Kelly Eagles' but we have to get used to shootouts.

We need better discipline from the defensive players. Diving onto the pile after the play, playing through and after the whistle, and trying to put big hits on players by lowering both the shoulder and head...have to go. We need sure tackling, no penalties prolonging drives, and no more 'friendly-fire' injuries.

We also need to keep our best players in the box. I understand you don't want to leave giant holes from blitzes but without our best guys applying pressure - they aren't going to help us much in coverage. I want my box safety near the LOS or putting pressure on the QB.

If we give up a few short passes to make it possible? Well we are giving up long passes now so that might actually be preferable.

We need to start games with the understanding we have to score 28 to win (last year average game winner scores 28 in the NFL) and plan accordingly.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Good points. 30 burger every game...…..

 

[Mad Dog]

And what did Clowney, Griffen and Ngakoue end up signing for? I'll wait while you look it up. Were Olsen, Finney and Dorsett pressing needs?

Depth is important. Having a great pass rush is important, too. Although looking around the league so far, maybe defense isn't as critical as it used to be?

We won SB 48 because we stayed relatively healthy, but also we had head hunters rushing the passer. We also had several generational players playing on rookie contracts that were incredibly cheap. It's not as simple as just the injuries. They drafted much better building that SB team than they have since 2015, and that's just cold hard fact.

This is a discussion thread about how to fix the defense, not "doom and gloom" which is an utterly abused phrase in here. If you want to contribute to the discussion with something valuable, I'd love to see it.

I will agree with you that the philosophy seems to have been load up on offense, open up Russ, and just simply outscore anyone. It's just a radical departure from yesteryear, when Pete was all about the defense.

Doesn't matter what Clowney, Griffen and Ngakoue ended up signing for. Are you suggesting we should have kept 13 million aside just in case a bargain showed up at the end of training camp? We could have been out all 3 of those players as well as Olsen, Finney and Dorsett. I'm sure all 3 of those players were adamant at the start of FA than nothing other than top dollar was going to cut it and the Jags were likely asking for 1st round picks for Ngakoue and adamant they wouldn't settle for anything less.

And my suggestion to fix the defense is "next man up". There aren't any solutions out there in FA. Matthews won't save us.
Next option is a trade but any quality pass rusher is going to cost a quality player and also have a challenging salary to fit under the cap. I don't think the defense needs fixing so badly that we trade away Lockett or Carson and a 3rd rounder.

And we had the same players in going into SB 49 but they weren't healthy and we lost so I say it is as simple as injuries making the biggest difference. Does anyone believe that if Kam, Earl, Sherm, Avril, and Lane weren't injured before or during that game that it would have been close?

 

[Mad Dog]

We need to start games with the understanding we have to score 28 to win (last year average game winner scores 28 in the NFL) and plan accordingly.

33 is a better starting point. Probably 40 for the better offenses we face. 28 points will get you past the Dolphins, Jets, Giants and Eagles. Ain't going to cut it against the Cards, Rams, Cowboys level offenses.