Seattle Sounders 2015 Season Thread

Chapow

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
5,362
Reaction score
1,286
It was good to see them put the ball in the back of the net, they needed that desperately IMO. Hopefully they can put this scoreless streak behind them and move forward. That was quite a nice finish by Neagle, near post, just below the crossbar. Keeper wasn't in a bad position and still didn't have much of a chance.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,616
Uncle Si":3ct3xmc4 said:
Has beens...
Good contribution...the two players just signed by the Sounders are what then?

Your points not much different than mine though. Sounders have little talent in the middle or out wide and are thin up top. When needing an influx of young talent they chose two 30+ year olds who weren't playing in the top leagues in Europe regularly last year

The MLS just offered Chicharito 10 million a year.....................and he turned it down.

So you saying that the MLS actually has a CHOICE to sign DP type players in their prime over aging vets isn't exactly fair is it?

The good news is the worm is turning, especially with USMNT players. The MLS is growing in not only popularity and competitiveness........but more importantly as long as the cap and expanded DP rules keep getting bumped up, then it's only a matter of time before players like Chicharito can't say no any longer.
 

Uncle Si

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
Sgt. Largent":2h84jvng said:
Uncle Si":2h84jvng said:
Has beens...
Good contribution...the two players just signed by the Sounders are what then?

Your points not much different than mine though. Sounders have little talent in the middle or out wide and are thin up top. When needing an influx of young talent they chose two 30+ year olds who weren't playing in the top leagues in Europe regularly last year

The MLS just offered Chicharito 10 million a year.....................and he turned it down.

So you saying that the MLS actually has a CHOICE to sign DP type players in their prime over aging vets isn't exactly fair is it?

The good news is the worm is turning, especially with USMNT players. The MLS is growing in not only popularity and competitiveness........but more importantly as long as the cap and expanded DP rules keep getting bumped up, then it's only a matter of time before players like Chicharito can't say no any longer.


First, there is a reason Gerrard, Lampard, Villa, Kaka, etc. were bought. Soccer is part of it (Lampard and Gerrard were featuring in the CL just last year... so let's be careful about denigrating what quality they bring).

Second, where do you see the correlation between my point and your question? (jesus this thread sometimes... it contradicts itself every page). Or better, why do all "quality" signings have to be DP players? Miguel Ibarra was available; young, attack minded US international. He left to the Mexican league for a million dollars. How many others in the NASL (or other leagues with smaller player salaries and potential transfer fees) are overlooked? But somehow they find two 30+ year old attacking players out of contract after stints in La Liga and the Bundesliga? I use that search function in FIFA Career mode as well.

There are literally thousands of players available. The Sounders chose cheap. That was my point, and my issue. You say the "worm is turning" for the MLS... just not the Sounders?
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,616
Uncle Si":1xbtzmh6 said:
Sgt. Largent":1xbtzmh6 said:
Uncle Si":1xbtzmh6 said:
Has beens...
Good contribution...the two players just signed by the Sounders are what then?

Your points not much different than mine though. Sounders have little talent in the middle or out wide and are thin up top. When needing an influx of young talent they chose two 30+ year olds who weren't playing in the top leagues in Europe regularly last year

The MLS just offered Chicharito 10 million a year.....................and he turned it down.

So you saying that the MLS actually has a CHOICE to sign DP type players in their prime over aging vets isn't exactly fair is it?

The good news is the worm is turning, especially with USMNT players. The MLS is growing in not only popularity and competitiveness........but more importantly as long as the cap and expanded DP rules keep getting bumped up, then it's only a matter of time before players like Chicharito can't say no any longer.


First, there is a reason Gerrard, Lampard, Villa, Kaka, etc. were bought. Soccer is part of it (Lampard and Gerrard were featuring in the CL just last year... so let's be careful about denigrating what quality they bring).

Second, where do you see the correlation between my point and your question? (jesus this thread sometimes... it contradicts itself every page). Or better, why do all "quality" signings have to be DP players? Miguel Ibarra was available; young, attack minded US international. He left to the Mexican league for a million dollars. How many others in the NASL (or other leagues with smaller player salaries and potential transfer fees) are overlooked? But somehow they find two 30+ year old attacking players out of contract after stints in La Liga and the Bundesliga? I use that search function in FIFA Career mode as well.

There are literally thousands of players available. The Sounders chose cheap. That was my point, and my issue. You say the "worm is turning" for the MLS... just not the Sounders?

You keep insinuating the Sounders had a choice to sign younger players in their prime, like Montero........as opposed to older players in their 30's. Am I wrong? Cause that's what I'm reading.

And Ibarra for 1M IS a DP in the MLS. See that's the difference Si. Mexican Primera clubs have a 25 million payroll with no DP restrictions, while the MLS clubs have to move heaven and earth with their complicated salary restrictions buying down player with allocation money (If they even have allocation money)..........just for the chance to try and sign a player like Ibarra.

Bottom line right now is is up and coming players on the radar aren't going to sign with the MLS if other top leagues are interested.........UNLESS the MLS overpays them like they are with USMNT players, or aging stars.
 

Uncle Si

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
I know the difference. thanks. Ibarra would not have been a DP. Actually looked that up..and you mentioned Montero to start with.. jesus.

And yes, the Sounders have plenty of options to sign good players at younger ages. Fire have two attacking DP players, one is 24, the other 26. One was just signed last week.. and for free. "Gilberto is in the prime of his career and can immediately help our club push toward the MLS Cup Playoffs this year and for years to come,” said Chicago Fire Head Coach and Director of Soccer Frank Yallop." You can find and sign these players at any window. Its the fault of the organization if you need something different.

You're stricken with thinking these players need to be max talents... and ready to accept two 30+ free players whom you don't know much about to, in your words, replace "over the hill vets" like Gonzo and Barrett. Replacing over the hill with two players the same age?

i'll let it be. I think the assumptions here are used as excuses to mask inadequacies, or just a way to talk in circles.

"Sounders are falling apart...arggghhh. How did they let it get to this?"- Sounders fan

"this is how"- outsider

"no... thats wrong.. the Sounders are doing everything they can."- Sounders fan

You want the (edit) team to be taken seriously, and one someone tries to you give excuses why it can't... Working in a competing organization, I can tell you they aren't looking at the league in the same way.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,616
Uncle Si":1bf9opfn said:
"Sounders are falling apart...arggghhh. How did they let it get to this?"- Sounders fan

"this is how"- outsider

"no... thats wrong.. the Sounders are doing everything they can."- Sounders fan

You want the (edit) team to be taken seriously, and one someone tries to you give excuses why it can't... Working in a competing organization, I can tell you they aren't looking at the league in the same way.

Not sure where you got all this from me.

I never said the Sounders are falling apart, or given the impression I'm frustrated by the direction the organization's going.

When at full strength, the Sounders are as good as any club in the league........and that's the MLS in a nutshell. No depth, because the cap doesn't allow it. Thus major drop off between starters and bench.

Taken seriously? What does that even mean?

You seem like a knowledgeable soccer fan Si that doesn't watch the MLS, or the Sounders. So you like to snipe at the club and league as a whole for going about growing the wrong way.

My advice would be if you consider yourself an educated fan, watch the league and club before giving us your advice on how to improve either.
 

Uncle Si

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
Cliche reply Sgt.

I work with an MLS team, and watch alot more than you probably realize, including last nights tepid CL game with the Whitecaps for an evaluation as part of a coaching course. Edit.. you don't need my resume. I do alot of work with the sport in the region, let's say that.

Don't mask this as some superiority complex a "non" MLS fan might have. I'm as invested in the health of the league (and sport) as any one here. I attend Sporting (on the sidelines last time out) and Fire games, not Sounders games. Doesn't mean I'm not capable of speaking about the Sounders.

The depth you speak of IS the problem. I'm not "sniping" at your team. I'm sniping at your idea that the Sounders cant do anything about their depth issues, that the league itself isn't capable of allowing it. I then show you one other team off the top of my head that has addressed it in a way you say wasn't possible. That's what I can't take seriously. Basically, your circling, contradictory statements are tiring to read through.

Don't cherry pick quotes. You're whining about over the hill vets on page 15, then celebrating the idea of replacing said players with those the same age. That I can't take seriously. The direction of the club is what I have an issue with, and going back 2 years ago when I didn't think they should rehire Sigi and the start of this year when they didn't address a distinct lack of depth in key positions. I don't like teams buying 30+ DP "stars" to maintain attraction at the expense of soccer either. But atleast they are better players.

I can talk about the MLS and Sounders as well as anyone on here. I want to see the Sounders succeed (everyone in the MLS does). I see their moves as shortsighted at worst, lateral at best. Shown you why. It's my opinion on those moves. Your reply was to "educate" myself...

Maybe take your own advice? Or go do one. I could care less.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,616
Uncle Si":19pfvtag said:
Maybe take your own advice? Or go do one. I could care less.

Alright, as long you stop declaring any signing that's not a 23 year old future star as rubbish without even seeing them play one minute.

You crapped on these two signings since I posted them. Dudes haven't even cleared customs and you've already labeled it business as usual for the Sounders.

The fact is the Sounders have signed quite a few good young players over the years. Montero, Ozzie, Flaco, Yedlin to name a few.......just haven't seen much lately. Probably why Adrian's out and Lagerwey's in.
 

Uncle Si

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
Sgt. Largent":yswfhbn1 said:
Uncle Si":yswfhbn1 said:
Maybe take your own advice? Or go do one. I could care less.

Alright, as long you stop declaring any signing that's not a 23 year old future star as rubbish without even seeing them play one minute.

You crapped on these two signings since I posted them. Dudes haven't even cleared customs and you've already labeled it business as usual for the Sounders.

The fact is the Sounders have signed quite a few good young players over the years. Montero, Ozzie, Flaco, Yedlin to name a few.......just haven't seen much lately. Probably why Adrian's out and Lagerwey's in.

Go back and look (sifting through your own contradictions to do so). I didn't crap on them. Admitted I knew very little about the players (and that others didn't as well). I pointed out I didn't think they addressed the issues at hand (adding talented depth with youth to a squad with 11 field players over 30), and that it disappointed. Showed a couple of astute recent signings by just one team (one in particular.. 26 not 23) that I'd prefer the Sounders (league for that matter) look to as a strategy. And then pointed out the ridiculousness of suggesting two players the same age are better than the "over the hill" vets you think they should replace... ffs. You told me to "educate" myself. I'll try to watch more Sounders games while, you know, actually working with a competing MLS team. Would that count?

Seems I probably care more about the direction of the team (league) than you do.. or atleast understand it better. You validated my whole concern by suggesting GMs jobs may have been lost due to it. So it does seem as business as usual?

The two could be just the right fit. But I don't like the moves. I'm allowed to question it, and supported it as well. (I also don't like that they fit into the roles of the Sounders best players, which seems to make them more replacements than support... but we will see what Sigi does. He's been less than Merlin since Dempsey's debacle vs. Portland). You're response, again... "educate" myself. Dear me....
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,616
A caring pissing match, lol.

Discussing topics with you Si is about as painful as it gets, so I'll bow out of this little soccer talk act of futility. God speed.
 

Uncle Si

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
Sgt. Largent":529zjxgt said:
A caring pissing match, lol.

Discussing topics with you Si is about as painful as it gets, so I'll bow out of this little soccer talk act of futility. God speed.


Back to your kennel then...

Come back with a point next time.

(I genuinely do like you Sgt.)
 

hawkfan68

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
10,027
Reaction score
1,723
Location
Sammamish, WA
I'm not sure that Lagerway has been much of an upgrade over Hanauer. I know it's still early in the Lagerway era but at this point his deals aren't that impressive over what Adrian has done. Most of the early young talent, such as Montero, Ozzie, etc came during their expansion season. At that time, the Sounders were pressed to look at younger talent. They did have Ljungberg and Keller but most of the team was built around younger players. Trading away draft picks is not helping to acquire younger talent.
 

knownone

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
5,308
Reaction score
2,266
Read the last few posts and got a little bored at work...
Average age of LA Galaxy best XI(most starts) in 2014 29.90. Average age of the Sounders projected XI with new signings 29.36. Oddly enough every galaxy team of the last 4 years was between 28.5 and 30 with the exception being this year.

Dating back to 2010 every Supporters Shield winner has an average XI age over 27.5 which ranks among the oldest in the League...
 

Uncle Si

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
knownone":4hh795ds said:
Read the last few posts and got a little bored at work...
Average age of LA Galaxy best XI(most starts) in 2014 29.90. Average age of the Sounders projected XI with new signings 29.36. Oddly enough every galaxy team of the last 4 years was between 28.5 and 30 with the exception being this year.

Dating back to 2010 every Supporters Shield winner has an average XI age over 27.5 which ranks among the oldest in the League...

Valid point...and as I said (and Glasgow reiterated) relying on these older players will only take the league so far. This is an MLS problem. Don't be fixated on average age but what at whst age the quality exists.

Given Galaxy's trophies however we can assert they are buying better older players, which was my argument in regards to the two new boys. Either go in for the higher end DP or try something different. I don't think Seattle can win a trophy with the current roster.

Given Seattle's been the assumed face of the MLS for so long, don't they need one soon?

If you think the two new signings get it done then that's good.
 

Smurf

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
0
Location
Brier, WA
So....Researching the Ibarra thing...curious how you find that he wouldn't be a DP. It is my understanding that transfer fee's are integrated into the players salary cap hit (which is why you see LOTS of free transfers in MLS).

In general, the total amount of the acquisition cost of a player is charged against the salary budget in the year in which it is paid. For one player on a club’s roster (a “Special Discovery Player”), a club is able to amortize the total amount of acquisition costs (transfer fee) over the term of the player’s contract. The amortized amount and the player’s salary cannot exceed the Maximum Salary Budget Charge.

This is the reason Alvaro Fernandez was a DP when he came to the Sounders. It wasn't due to his contract, it was the combination of his contract and transfer fee. Ibarra being more expensive than Fernandez, I would assume this would make Ibarra a DP, unless allocation funds were used to buy down below the threshold...which could be difficult because there is only around 4 million in allocation funds in the league.....

This is issue has sort of been resolved with the introduction of TAM, but Ibarra was sold before that introduction occurred.


That being said, I understand your point and use of Ibarra as an example, Si.

I see how it can appear the Sounders are short-sighted in these signings...and thats because they 100% are. These signings are about ensuring we make the playoffs. Which given the last 6 weeks is absolutely necessary, and reactionary.

The team needs an infusion of fresh blood. I would have preferred younger players. But the players we acquired should be able to solidify the team in the short term. Will they be better than Pineda and Barrett? Maybe. Hopefully. We spent money on them. So hope they are. At the same team, the signings don't necessarily mortgage our financial future.


That being said, only a handful of names of young sounders were thrown out in Fisher, Jones and Kovar...who have been 3 stand outs of S2...which is where we are signing our young talent. All are U-25, most U-23. Not to mention Academy players get minutes here and there on the team.

Oalex Anderson, a 19 year old Saint Vincent international, has been tearing it up for club and country. 8 Goals in 14 appearances for his national team alone. Fast, nimble, and has a few tricks up his sleeve too. Really exciting player.

Pablo Rossi also likely has a first team future. 23 years old, attacking midfielder. Set piece specialist. 7 Goals in 20 games this season, I think 3 of those from free kicks. Good with the ball at his feet too.

Kind of feel like I'm rambling...but point is. We have youth. Its just not with the first team. They are developing. S2 and Academy. A TON of focus has been put on that area of the organization and should yield results soon. The Academy has really only now come out of its first "class" of true academy players. Players brought into the system young and coached from their. Yedlin and Morris aren't even apart of that. They had already developed elsewhere before the Sounders academy was established....

Anyway....I'm disappointed we haven't signed Morris. He is exactly what we need...but I feel we've done everything we can to get him. Just doesn't want to sign right now. Perhaps in the winter.
 

Uncle Si

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
20,596
Reaction score
3
Infusion of fresh blood....

Perfectly said...and whole league could use it.

Let's all move on
 

Smurf

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
0
Location
Brier, WA
Besides Ivanschitz and Valdez (who has yet to been confirmed by the club) the Sounders don't appear to have stopped there.

The Sounders are also rumored to be in negotiations for 29 year old CB Roman Torres, a Panamanian International. I know next to nothing about Torres other than he looks like a monster of a man. People who know more than I say he played well at the Gold Cup....so who knows....


Anyway, Sounders have announced there will be a DP signing tomorrow. We'll see who it is.

Could be Valdez or Torres...I doubt both...but I honestly have no idea about how either's contract will shape up.
 

Smurf

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
0
Location
Brier, WA
Uncle Si":20tuzbz3 said:
Infusion of fresh blood....

Perfectly said...and whole league could use it.

Let's all move on


Why do I always get the sense you're frustrated with me.... :/
 

hawkfan68

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
10,027
Reaction score
1,723
Location
Sammamish, WA
Guys and Gals, I appreciate your all posts and insights. It's pretty cool that we have a forum to share our opinions on several topics. It can also be frustrating especially if we believe our points aren't getting through. The discussion here is really outstanding. I'm learning more about soccer/football than I imagined. I don't follow the European and other leagues as closely. Although I know teams in UK/Europe and some of the South American clubs. I'm extremely green when it comes to tactics, players beyond the recognizable names, etc. So the incredible knowledge that many of you provide is just amazing. I thank you for that. This is one of my favorite threads on here. You folks are the reason why.

Back to topic, the Sounders (my opinion) don't have trouble making the playoffs or winning the US Open Cup. They've made it to the playoffs each year they've existed in the MLS. They've won the US Open Cup more than anyone else. They run into difficulties getting to the MLS Cup. They die in the playoffs for some reason or another. They can't seem to parlay their success during the regular season into the playoffs. Hopefully they can turn that around soon.
 

Smurf

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
0
Location
Brier, WA
hawkfan68":pv1ylpcb said:
Guys and Gals, I appreciate your all posts and insights. It's pretty cool that we have a forum to share our opinions on several topics. It can also be frustrating especially if we believe our points aren't getting through. The discussion here is really outstanding. I'm learning more about soccer/football than I imagined. I don't follow the European and other leagues as closely. Although I know teams in UK/Europe and some of the South American clubs. I'm extremely green when it comes to tactics, players beyond the recognizable names, etc. So the incredible knowledge that many of you provide is just amazing. I thank you for that. This is one of my favorite threads on here. You folks are the reason why.

Back to topic, the Sounders (my opinion) don't have trouble making the playoffs or winning the US Open Cup. They've made it to the playoffs each year they've existed in the MLS. They've won the US Open Cup more than anyone else. They run into difficulties getting to the MLS Cup. They die in the playoffs for some reason or another. They can't seem to parlay their success during the regular season into the playoffs. Hopefully they can turn that around soon.


Can't win the US Open Cup this year unfortunately....that game kind of started our entire free fall :/
 
Top