Seahawks reportedly make huge contract offer to Russell

[lobohawk]

For those obsessed with Rodgers and the apparent blasphemy of Wilson possibly being the highest paid QB in APY quick question: next year when Luck signs for 25 million APY and in 2 years when Rodgers signs for 27+ million APY what does it matter if Russell's APY is 21-22 million?

I think 21 - 22 million is fair... I've heard reports he wants 25 million....

And then reports came out that the supposed deal of 21 million was apparently rejected because the fully guaranteed number was pretty low not because the 21 per wasn't enough.

All I know is that none of us know. So that's why I bring up cap numbers and comparing the salaries when Rodgers signed his to what is being rumored for Wilson to be "wanting". Giving Russell 22 is hardly a declaration that he's the best QB in the league. More timing than anything with how ridiculously high the cap is and is going to be.

The Roethlisberger deal is a better example. It is a recent contract that pays out a large amount of money in the first three years. His annual contract average is 21.9 million.

I guess we can argue whether Roethlisber is better than Wilson.

The Seahawks don't want to pay RW for the elite QB he might become. They want to pay him for the above average QB he has been.

No, they want to leverage the last year of his contract which makes him cheaper than some backups. They aren't going to rip up his original contract. They are going to spread his new contract to shuffle money over his fourth year. This allows them to shrink the impact of his new contract to make it less than advertised.

Remember, in four years Russell will have made less than half ($2,996,702) of what Matt Flynn made in one year sitting on the bench. While it benefits the Hawks for Wilson to play his last year with such a low base salary, it runs counter to the idea that Wilson will get fairly compensated once the Hawks can change his contract.

 

[lobohawk]

For those obsessed with Rodgers and the apparent blasphemy of Wilson possibly being the highest paid QB in APY quick question: next year when Luck signs for 25 million APY and in 2 years when Rodgers signs for 27+ million APY what does it matter if Russell's APY is 21-22 million?

I think 21 - 22 million is fair... I've heard reports he wants 25 million....

And then reports came out that the supposed deal of 21 million was apparently rejected because the fully guaranteed number was pretty low not because the 21 per wasn't enough.

All I know is that none of us know. So that's why I bring up cap numbers and comparing the salaries when Rodgers signed his to what is being rumored for Wilson to be "wanting". Giving Russell 22 is hardly a declaration that he's the best QB in the league. More timing than anything with how ridiculously high the cap is and is going to be.

This is the main point that's worth discussing, not the rumored amounts, but the changes in cap since Rodgers signed his deal. I'll grant that Rodgers is the better QB, but not by much. That said, If you were signing Rodgers today how much would he be offered? How much would he want? Take the number you come up with and pay Wilson a bit less and it will likely still be more than what Rodgers is currently being paid.

SC

This +21,000,000

 

[BlueTalon]

This is absolutely the worst part of the football year. What we're experiencing is the football fan equivalent of cabin fever. We don't need a Wilson deal to lose the craziness (although that would be tremendous), we just need a flow of information about some actual news of something really happening. The start of training camp for us will be like the first few breaths of someone who almost drowned.

 

[Narniaman]

Bull crap! Rogers numbers would be about like they are when Greenbay plays a team that gets in his face as the Hawks do! You guys don't realize how little tallent Wilson has been working with. Heck he is about to get a TE that will be the second player on the offense that would start on most other NFL teams. Lynch and Russell have done what they have done behind an Oline who's most consistent performer is a converted DE. Russell has been throwing to undrafted free agent WRs and back up TE's. You are batty if you actually believe that any QB could have faired better in our offense with the personell we have had.

Except that in the NFCCG Rodgers didn't have any pressure in his face...

"Pitsme" is quite right. . . Aaron Rogers, who is possibly the best passer to ever play in the NFL, didn't have hardly any pressure at all in his face in the NFC championship game against the Seahawks. . . he was only sacked once.

Russell Wilson, at best a pale imitation of Aaron Rogers, was sacked five times.

And you can certainly see the difference in the stats. . . Rogers, the best NFL passer that ever was, gashed the Seahawk defense for. . . .190 yards of offense. Meanwhile, Russell Wilson, in perhaps the worse game of his NFL career, was only able to produce 234 yards of offense against the team that seemed to be sacking him at will.

Another metric to put things in perspective showing Aaron Rogers vastly superior passing ability is the fact that the Rogers had 178 yards of passing offense against a Seattle Defense that gave up an average of 185 yards of passing a game. . . in other words, Rogers was almost as productive as the average quarterback the Seahawks faced during the regular season. Russell Wilson, on the other hand, was only able to pass for 209 yards against the Green Bay defense, which gave up 226 passing yards a game.

And as far as a disparity in talent between the receiving corps. . . any objective observer could see that Green Bay's receivers were much less talented than the group that Russell Wilson was throwing to. Just consider the draft positions of the respective receivers who caught passes in the game. . .

First, for Green Bay. . . .Jordy Nelson, drafted second round in 2008; Randell Cobb. . .drafted second round 2011; Richard Rogers, drafted 3rd round, 2014; Davante Adams, 2nd round 2014; John Kuhn, UDFA; James Starks; sixth round, 2010.

And here's Seattle's pass catchers. . .Doug Baldwin, UDFA, 2011; Jerome Kearse, UDFA, 2012; Marshawn Lynch, 1st round 2007; Ricardo Lockette, UDFA 2011; Garry Gilliam UDFA 2014; Luke Willson, 5th round, 2014; Will Tukuafu; UDFA, 2010; Robert Turbin, 4th round 2012.

So there. . . any objective observer will immediately notice that Russell Wilson had more receivers he could target as compared to Aaron Rogers -- 8 pass catchers, versus only six for Aaron Rogers, and that Russell Wilson had a first round draft choice he was able to throw passes to, while Rogers had to settle for receivers drafted in the second and third rounds.

In spite of this incredible disparity in talent, Rogers was only 44 yards shy of producing as much offense as Russell Wilson.

So. . . that's why it's absurd to think that Russell Wilson should get anywhere near as much compensation for playing quarterback as Aaron Rogers. . . .

 

[onanygivensunday]

This is the main point that's worth discussing, not the rumored amounts, but the changes in cap since Rodgers signed his deal. I'll grant that Rodgers is the better QB, but not by much. That said, If you were signing Rodgers today how much would he be offered? How much would he want? Take the number you come up with and pay Wilson a bit less and it will likely still be more than what Rodgers is currently being paid.

SC

Rodgers would probably want something in the neighborhood of $24M/year, which we cannot afford this year unless Wilson's signing bonus (assumed amount of) $20M is spread out over 5 years instead of 4 years.

Clayton's article discusses this aspect in detail.... http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13325 ... g-camp-nfl
.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

This is absolutely the worst part of the football year. What we're experiencing is the football fan equivalent of cabin fever. We don't need a Wilson deal to lose the craziness (although that would be tremendous), we just need a flow of information about some actual news of something really happening. The start of training camp for us will be like the first few breaths of someone who almost drowned.

The NFL is a 24/7/365 media churning machine now. So unfortunately all training camp is going to bring is more stories of injuries, holdouts, contract demands and unhappy players.

I guarantee you next week at this time the main stories aren't going to be training camp football related issues. It's going to be

- Where's Michael Bennett?
- Why isn't Marshawn participating?
- Does Russell look comfortable?
- OMG Bruce got mad at somebody, is he still pissed?

The media knows now what gets clicks, and it ain't who's got the lead at the left guard battle.

 

[StoneCold]

This is the main point that's worth discussing, not the rumored amounts, but the changes in cap since Rodgers signed his deal. I'll grant that Rodgers is the better QB, but not by much. That said, If you were signing Rodgers today how much would he be offered? How much would he want? Take the number you come up with and pay Wilson a bit less and it will likely still be more than what Rodgers is currently being paid.

SC

Rodgers would probably want something in the neighborhood of $24M/year, which we cannot afford this year unless Wilson's signing bonus (assumed amount of) $20M is spread out over 5 years instead of 4 years.

Clayton's article discusses this aspect in detail.... http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13325 ... g-camp-nfl
.

Understood that we couldn't afford 24, but I said give Wilson a bit less. How about 22.5. Less than Rodgers is worth and more than Rodgers current contract is paying him. Life is good. Everything is in balance. We can now start the season. OOOOMMMMMM.

Peace.
SC

 

[vonstout]

Bull crap! Rogers numbers would be about like they are when Greenbay plays a team that gets in his face as the Hawks do! You guys don't realize how little tallent Wilson has been working with. Heck he is about to get a TE that will be the second player on the offense that would start on most other NFL teams. Lynch and Russell have done what they have done behind an Oline who's most consistent performer is a converted DE. Russell has been throwing to undrafted free agent WRs and back up TE's. You are batty if you actually believe that any QB could have faired better in our offense with the personell we have had.

Except that in the NFCCG Rodgers didn't have any pressure in his face...

"Pitsme" is quite right. . . Aaron Rogers, who is possibly the best passer to ever play in the NFL, didn't have hardly any pressure at all in his face in the NFC championship game against the Seahawks. . . he was only sacked once.

Russell Wilson, at best a pale imitation of Aaron Rogers, was sacked five times.

And you can certainly see the difference in the stats. . . Rogers, the best NFL passer that ever was, gashed the Seahawk defense for. . . .190 yards of offense. Meanwhile, Russell Wilson, in perhaps the worse game of his NFL career, was only able to produce 234 yards of offense against the team that seemed to be sacking him at will.

Another metric to put things in perspective showing Aaron Rogers vastly superior passing ability is the fact that the Rogers had 178 yards of passing offense against a Seattle Defense that gave up an average of 185 yards of passing a game. . . in other words, Rogers was almost as productive as the average quarterback the Seahawks faced during the regular season. Russell Wilson, on the other hand, was only able to pass for 209 yards against the Green Bay defense, which gave up 226 passing yards a game.

And as far as a disparity in talent between the receiving corps. . . any objective observer could see that Green Bay's receivers were much less talented than the group that Russell Wilson was throwing to. Just consider the draft positions of the respective receivers who caught passes in the game. . .

First, for Green Bay. . . .Jordy Nelson, drafted second round in 2008; Randell Cobb. . .drafted second round 2011; Richard Rogers, drafted 3rd round, 2014; Davante Adams, 2nd round 2014; John Kuhn, UDFA; James Starks; sixth round, 2010.

And here's Seattle's pass catchers. . .Doug Baldwin, UDFA, 2011; Jerome Kearse, UDFA, 2012; Marshawn Lynch, 1st round 2007; Ricardo Lockette, UDFA 2011; Garry Gilliam UDFA 2014; Luke Willson, 5th round, 2014; Will Tukuafu; UDFA, 2010; Robert Turbin, 4th round 2012.

So there. . . any objective observer will immediately notice that Russell Wilson had more receivers he could target as compared to Aaron Rogers -- 8 pass catchers, versus only six for Aaron Rogers, and that Russell Wilson had a first round draft choice he was able to throw passes to, while Rogers had to settle for receivers drafted in the second and third rounds.

In spite of this incredible disparity in talent, Rogers was only 44 yards shy of producing as much offense as Russell Wilson.

So. . . that's why it's absurd to think that Russell Wilson should get anywhere near as much compensation for playing quarterback as Aaron Rogers. . . .

Our defense is a little better than GBs so comparing stats against common opponents would make more sense. Everyone is downplaying Rodgers mobility compared to RW. That may be true, but he is pretty mobile too. I think the biggest difference is that until Lacy, GB had an terrible running game. I'd be interested to see how RW would perform without a running game. He may find out at some point when Lynch is gone. I think he can adjust, I'm just not sure he can carry the offense by himself consistently. Time will tell.

 

[ptisme]

This is absolutely the worst part of the football year. What we're experiencing is the football fan equivalent of cabin fever. We don't need a Wilson deal to lose the craziness (although that would be tremendous), we just need a flow of information about some actual news of something really happening. The start of training camp for us will be like the first few breaths of someone who almost drowned.

I agree... Boring... That's why I'm on here, nothing new over on Packer boards... When do you start training camp?

 

[ptisme]

Bull crap! Rogers numbers would be about like they are when Greenbay plays a team that gets in his face as the Hawks do! You guys don't realize how little tallent Wilson has been working with. Heck he is about to get a TE that will be the second player on the offense that would start on most other NFL teams. Lynch and Russell have done what they have done behind an Oline who's most consistent performer is a converted DE. Russell has been throwing to undrafted free agent WRs and back up TE's. You are batty if you actually believe that any QB could have faired better in our offense with the personell we have had.

Except that in the NFCCG Rodgers didn't have any pressure in his face...

"Pitsme" is quite right. . . Aaron Rogers, who is possibly the best passer to ever play in the NFL, didn't have hardly any pressure at all in his face in the NFC championship game against the Seahawks. . . he was only sacked once.

Russell Wilson, at best a pale imitation of Aaron Rogers, was sacked five times.

And you can certainly see the difference in the stats. . . Rogers, the best NFL passer that ever was, gashed the Seahawk defense for. . . .190 yards of offense. Meanwhile, Russell Wilson, in perhaps the worse game of his NFL career, was only able to produce 234 yards of offense against the team that seemed to be sacking him at will.

Another metric to put things in perspective showing Aaron Rogers vastly superior passing ability is the fact that the Rogers had 178 yards of passing offense against a Seattle Defense that gave up an average of 185 yards of passing a game. . . in other words, Rogers was almost as productive as the average quarterback the Seahawks faced during the regular season. Russell Wilson, on the other hand, was only able to pass for 209 yards against the Green Bay defense, which gave up 226 passing yards a game.

And as far as a disparity in talent between the receiving corps. . . any objective observer could see that Green Bay's receivers were much less talented than the group that Russell Wilson was throwing to. Just consider the draft positions of the respective receivers who caught passes in the game. . .

First, for Green Bay. . . .Jordy Nelson, drafted second round in 2008; Randell Cobb. . .drafted second round 2011; Richard Rogers, drafted 3rd round, 2014; Davante Adams, 2nd round 2014; John Kuhn, UDFA; James Starks; sixth round, 2010.

And here's Seattle's pass catchers. . .Doug Baldwin, UDFA, 2011; Jerome Kearse, UDFA, 2012; Marshawn Lynch, 1st round 2007; Ricardo Lockette, UDFA 2011; Garry Gilliam UDFA 2014; Luke Willson, 5th round, 2014; Will Tukuafu; UDFA, 2010; Robert Turbin, 4th round 2012.

So there. . . any objective observer will immediately notice that Russell Wilson had more receivers he could target as compared to Aaron Rogers -- 8 pass catchers, versus only six for Aaron Rogers, and that Russell Wilson had a first round draft choice he was able to throw passes to, while Rogers had to settle for receivers drafted in the second and third rounds.

In spite of this incredible disparity in talent, Rogers was only 44 yards shy of producing as much offense as Russell Wilson.

So. . . that's why it's absurd to think that Russell Wilson should get anywhere near as much compensation for playing quarterback as Aaron Rogers. . . .

Rodgers was also going against an all time great defense at its home where it's very hard to operate and presnap stuff.. Also, there were numerous third downs where I thought Rodgers had a ton of room to scramble and pick up the first down, where he threw the ball away because of the calf.... I'm really looking forward to this matchup at Lambeau... If Seattle can shut him down there I will have even more respect for Seattle's defense, if that's possible...

 

[onanygivensunday]

Understood that we couldn't afford 24, but I said give Wilson a bit less. How about 22.5. Less than Rodgers is worth and more than Rodgers current contract is paying him.
SC

According to Clayton, you're close.

He believes that the Hawks could offer a 4-year extension at "might get the average slightly more than $22M/year".

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Why should he sign for $21M starting in '16 before the '15 season...? One chance in a thousand that he can't get more by waiting UNTIL '16 to sign.

It'll take him years to make up the first season playing for 1.5 mil.

 

[BadgerVid]

Why should he sign for $21M starting in '16 before the '15 season...? One chance in a thousand that he can't get more by waiting UNTIL '16 to sign.

It'll take him years to make up the first season playing for 1.5 mil.

One of the few thing upon which every report has agreed is that none of the offers include any increase in compensation for '15 other than the signing bonus which is part of the "$21M per year" for the other 4 years. He loses nothing.

 

[MVP53]

Everyone knows that Rodgers makes those receivers. There's no Dez Bryant playing for Green Bay. Name one Packer receiver that ever did anything after they left Green Bay?
3. Regarding the hits Rodgers would take if he left Green Bay: You are aware they had one of the worst Olines in the league until recently with regard to pass pro? quote]
So, both Donald Driver and Johrdy (sp.) Nelson were a product of Aaron Rodgers? that just blows my mind, Not everyone is going to buy that line of dookie either :roll.
and to #3.?, No, I'm not aware that the GB Packers HAS a worse O-Line than the Seahawks when it comes to pass protection, because that bit of info that you're trying to sell as the Gospel, isn't true either....Nice try though.

Nelson and Driver aren't athletically gifted. But they have good hands and run great routes. You saw how average Nelson looked when Rodgers was out for six weeks... Those guys continually get the ball thrown in the perfect spot. As for the Packer OLINE: I said the Packers had a poor pass protection oline UNTIL RECENTLY.

Jordy Nelson isn't athletically gifted? He ran a 4.5 40 at the combine.

"Nelson was an outstanding track and field athlete, and won a national AAU championship in the 400 meters as a 10-year-old. In 2003, his senior year at Riley County High School, he won the state titles in Class 3A in the: 100 meters, with a time of 10.63 seconds; 200 meters, with a time of 21.64 seconds; 400 meters, with a time of 48.79; and long jump, with a leap of 7.00 meters.[7]"

"On Riley County's basketball team, he averaged 17.2 points as a senior and set school career records for blocks (161), steals (225) and assists (325)"

Sounds pretty athletic to me.

 

[scutterhawk]

Our perfect scenario is that he plays out his rookie contract! And with the addition of Jimmy Graham there is zero I mean Nada not an inkling of an excuse that we don't have a wide receiver even though he is a tight end .Drew Brees gets him the ball quite often. And the way he wants to get paid he is saying he is better so I'd like to see that and am willing to roll the dice . Because if he sucks it up we going to get a great discount and he plays awesome he is worth the money. but as it stands right now he's not worth that kind of money to run around the broken plays aka backyard football

AKA, a Legitimate scrambling to buy time, and make a lot of REALLY good NFL Defenses look like shit trying to stop him, yet he still manages to rack up nearly 900 Yards, helping to push the Seahawks Run Game to be one of the best in the League type "Back Yard Football?
Nice try at attempting to down play on one of Wilson's best attributes, The Seahawks are damned lucky to have a Quarterback that has the abilities to play the Tom Cable style of Football.

 

[ptisme]

Everyone knows that Rodgers makes those receivers. There's no Dez Bryant playing for Green Bay. Name one Packer receiver that ever did anything after they left Green Bay?
3. Regarding the hits Rodgers would take if he left Green Bay: You are aware they had one of the worst Olines in the league until recently with regard to pass pro? quote]
So, both Donald Driver and Johrdy (sp.) Nelson were a product of Aaron Rodgers? that just blows my mind, Not everyone is going to buy that line of dookie either :roll.
and to #3.?, No, I'm not aware that the GB Packers HAS a worse O-Line than the Seahawks when it comes to pass protection, because that bit of info that you're trying to sell as the Gospel, isn't true either....Nice try though.

Nelson and Driver aren't athletically gifted. But they have good hands and run great routes. You saw how average Nelson looked when Rodgers was out for six weeks... Those guys continually get the ball thrown in the perfect spot. As for the Packer OLINE: I said the Packers had a poor pass protection oline UNTIL RECENTLY.

Jordy Nelson isn't athletically gifted? He ran a 4.5 40 at the combine.

"Nelson was an outstanding track and field athlete, and won a national AAU championship in the 400 meters as a 10-year-old. In 2003, his senior year at Riley County High School, he won the state titles in Class 3A in the: 100 meters, with a time of 10.63 seconds; 200 meters, with a time of 21.64 seconds; 400 meters, with a time of 48.79; and long jump, with a leap of 7.00 meters.[7]"

"On Riley County's basketball team, he averaged 17.2 points as a senior and set school career records for blocks (161), steals (225) and assists (325)"

Sounds pretty athletic to me.

NFL.com draft profile:
A better athlete than given credit for, but isn't the elite athlete his senior production may have you believe. ... Good route-runner, but lacks explosiveness out of his breaks and elite deep ball speed. ... Primary target in this offense, receiving more than twice as many passes his way than any other Wildcat receiver. ... Big play artist for KSU, but may lack the acceleration to be anything more than a possession receiver at the next level. ... Suffered a sprained PCL in his left knee that hampered him throughout the 2006 season.

 

[MVP53]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... lege-track

Jordy Nelson is plenty athletic.

 

[ptisme]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-11-19/jordy-nelson-green-bay-packers-wide-receiver-fantasy-stats-schedule-nfl-numbers-40-time-speed-high-school-college-track

Jordy Nelson is plenty athletic.

What were his stats when Rodgers was out two years ago?

 

[hawkfannj]

Wilson's not going anywhere people he's under contract and if he plays well again this year he will be franchised next year if he doesn't sign it's that simple. Is it possible that Wilson and Seattle have a falling out if he doesn't sign before the start of the regular season , yes anything is possible he could get hurt he could have a down year or he could play great and make more money but there's far more risk on Wilson's side that's why the consensus is he will sign .

Our perfect scenario is that he plays out his rookie contract! And with the addition of Jimmy Graham there is zero I mean Nada not an inkling of an excuse that we don't have a wide receiver even though he is a tight end .Drew Brees gets him the ball quite often. And the way he wants to get paid he is saying he is better so I'd like to see that and am willing to roll the dice . Because if he sucks it up we going to get a great discount and he plays awesome he is worth the money. but as it stands right now he's not worth that kind of money to run around the broken plays aka backyard football

Why would he "suck it up"? You may not like him, but he's never been anything but an efficient QB in this league in his 3 years here

yes the key word is efficient . Not top paid player of all time . I never said I didn't like him I think he is a very good leader even great . But I'm not blinded by rose colored glasses either and think we overrate him a bit.

 

[hawkfannj]

When you compare numbers he is not on the same level as Rogers period.

You're right. Aaron Rodgers isn't nearly as good as Russell Wilson. Not in our system.

Just curious to know what kinda system we have . Great defense run the ball panic run around offense blame everything on WRs kinda system? :1: come on give us Rodgers and see what kinda "system" we have

The kind of system where the QB had to run for his life so often. Seriously, put Rodgers behind our O-line last season, and his season comes to an end long before the rest of the NFL's season comes to an end.

Russell Wilson led the league in 3rd down rushing last year, IIRC. No way Rodgers does that, and no way we make it to the Super Bowl without those yards.

If you define a good QB only in terms of passing accuracy, defense recognition, and at-line adjustments, then sure, put Rodgers at the top. But a QB is never just those things -- a QB is the sum total of all his attributes. And the sum total of Russell Wilson's attributes got us to two Super Bowls.

That sounds like a pro NFL QB resume to me .