RW after week 1 last season

[Zebulon Dak]

Bo Jackson, Tim Brown...

 

[JSeahawks]

Fred Biletnikoff and Art Shell are pretty good.

 

[pehawk]

Fred Biletnikoff and Art Shell are pretty good.

Didn't they acquire Willie Gault?

 

[Blitzer88]

Not gonna lie.....I thought that we should of given Flynn a look at that point. Glad I was wrong though!

 

[RichNhansom]

Let me put it this way, if we had started Flynn, he could've done well but we wouldn't see the magic that was in Wilson. I really liked what I saw from Wilson in that game. He led a great 4th quarter drive that didn't end so well.

Flynn is not a good QB. People will get a chance to see that this year.

Just wait. The people who overly hitched their wagon to Flynn last offseason have already started the "Too bad Flynn is playing for Oakland. He has no chance to succeed. Poor guy," talk. It's funny how that works. Most of them were also the same people who thought trading him was a gigantic mistake. Guess it's hard to back down when you jump the gun so bad.

For the record I thought trading him was a necessity, But you also have those people who are going to want to either ignore the supporting cast or are just plain ignorant to the fact it matters. It will likely be alot of those guys who hitched their wagon to Flynn sucks even though they could never explain why and either ignored his performances or were ignorant to them.

It also depends on how you measure success. If it is only in the win loss column then yeah I think Flynn is screwed for next year but much like the premise of this thread, you should be able to see if he is comfortable in the pocket, goes through his progressions, makes accurate throws, stays calm under pressure on and on. Sometimes it takes more than a good QB to bail a team out. Look at the Seahawks from 2008 to 2010. First thing Pete and John did was have a fire sale. If you think Wilson would have looked anything in those offenses like he did last year you are dreaming.

A good supporting cast will make an average QB look much better and vice verse.

I think you will also see Ponder and Papaki both take huge steps back this season in large part to the supporting cast.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Having or not having rings has no direct relation to the IT factor it's just the result of circumstances combining into the perfect storm. Marino had IT but no rings Flacco, Dilfer and Gannon have rings but no IT factor.

What the IT factor allows are results like Eli winning 2 SB's with teams supposedly inferior statistically or Tom Brady/Joe Montana results when on superior teams. Or a rookie throwing as many TD's as Peyton Manning with half the attempts and interceptions, winning their franchise's first road playoff game in 30+ years and nearly a second.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Having or not having rings has no direct relation to the IT factor it's just the result of circumstances combining into the perfect storm. Marino had IT but no rings Flacco, Dilfer and Gannon have rings but no IT factor.

What the IT factor allows are results like Eli winning 2 SB's with teams supposedly inferior statistically or Tom Brady/Joe Montana results when on superior teams. Or a rookie throwing as many TD's as Peyton Manning with half the attempts and interceptions, winning their franchise's first road playoff game in 30+ years and nearly a second.

 

[scutterhawk]

I don't completely agree. Having IT to me is being capable of overcoming obstacles at the most crucial time. A lot of people that are considered to have IT previously have been blessed with enormous talent surrounding them. Eli and Brady have never really been surrounded by high talent IMO. This doesn't mean they always win obviously. But more often than not they beat the odds.

There are only a few people in the league who have IT IMO, and Eli and Brady are the only ones who come to mind right now.

I swear you guys keep agreeing with me and just dont realize it.

Eli has 2 superbowls
Brady has 3.

Of course you say they have 'IT'. They Proved it.

I will say it again, if Eli didnt get those 2 rings, you wouldnt include him in the IT list you just posted.

OHH! :34853_doh: , now I get "IT"
So until Wilson wins a Super Bowl, he won't be PROVEN to have the "IT FACTOR", :th2thumbs: GOTCHA!

 

[SharkHawk]

There were ALOT of people questioning Wilson for the first 8 games. And, IMO, it weeded out the stat geeks, from those who truly understood the game.

Anyone who knows the game could, just tell, Wilson had that Eli, Montana, Brady, 2012 Flacco, whatever you want to call it intangible. Because it was an abstract, the stat geeks couldn't quantify it, so reverted to all they know how to do, let the stats dictate their opinion.

It was obvious to quite a few that Eli would most likely end up with just as many, or even more, rings than his brother. That made zero sense to people without just a "tao" understanding of the game. Same with Wilson.

I mean this with no offense, but if you we're unable to see the forest past the trees with Wilson, you showed all of us, you're kind of a hack.

Badda bing badda boom. This is a great explanation. I will throw another one out, and that's all of the same guys who couldn't go on long enough about how worthless Ichiro was to the 2001 Mariners, and how they were seeing stuff that wasn't there, because the stats PROVED he wasn't good. They PROVED IT. Look at his amount of walks and his OBP and his OPS and there is PROOF that Ichiro SUCKED and that the team was headed nowhere.

Last time I checked, that was the last competitive baseball team that took the field as the home squad in Safeco and Ichiro was clearly the difference on that team, but statheads were having their brains explode because their metric said he sucked, and they couldn't deny hard enough that there was no such thing as "it" and "it" doesn't make a team better from top to bottom when you all of a sudden inject "it" into the equation.

We saw it with Ichiro, we saw it with Russ, I'll go so far as to say we saw it with the guy with the "worst stats" on the 90's Sonics in Nate McMillan. Facts showed that the Sonics were a better team when they had both Payton and Mac on the court at the same time, and that's what they did. When Payton was running the point on his own and Mac was on the bench early in Glove's career then he struggled, the team struggled. Then "Glue" started getting extended minutes with "Glove" and the team as a whole became exponentially better and Glove became one of the best players to ever suit up. Interesting to watch statheads blow up when they would go off and say Mac needed to sit down and blahbedy blah blah, but the evidence was in the success that the TEAM was having. Same with Russ. Same with Ichi-balls (thank Buhner for that one), and same with the Sonics rotations in about 95-96-ish. Even Derrick McKey started to play like he was always supposed to.

 

[12thMode]

Not to take any magic from Wilson, but we will never know how are seaon would have ended if we started Flynn.

 

[SharkHawk]

We also will never know how our season would have ended if Clemons had been taken out for one play for a breather and not blown out his knee, or if we had kept Mike Williams around instead of Braylon Edwards, or let TO stick on the roster. There are always a million possibilities. I think the fact that we got the season we did with a rookie QB is one of the greatest success stories ever, so I am not one who really cares what Flynn might have done. Just as I'm not all that interested in seeing what T-Jack might have done. I really liked both guys, and thought they were both great teammates and hard workers, but we have our guy now, and that's what we really needed more than anything out of last year. Now it's time to move forward, and we took that one big step that needed to take place. Everything after qualifying for the playoffs was a bonus. Actually everything beyond smashing the holy hell out of the 49ers on a week where the 9ers were a "shoo-in" to win due to the media's infatuation with Captain Comeback and his tantrums was pretty much gravy in my book.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

Not to take any magic from Wilson, but we will never know how are seaon would have ended if we started Flynn.

We don't know how it would have gone at all. I'm guessing it'd be closer to 8-8 and no playoffs than :30 away from the NFCCG though. Flynn doesn't appear to have IT IMO.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

Badda bing badda boom. This is a great explanation. I will throw another one out, and that's all of the same guys who couldn't go on long enough about how worthless Ichiro was to the 2001 Mariners, and how they were seeing stuff that wasn't there, because the stats PROVED he wasn't good. They PROVED IT. Look at his amount of walks and his OBP and his OPS and there is PROOF that Ichiro SUCKED and that the team was headed nowhere.

Last time I checked, that was the last competitive baseball team that took the field as the home squad in Safeco and Ichiro was clearly the difference on that team, but statheads were having their brains explode because their metric said he sucked, and they couldn't deny hard enough that there was no such thing as "it" and "it" doesn't make a team better from top to bottom when you all of a sudden inject "it" into the equation.

We saw it with Ichiro, we saw it with Russ, I'll go so far as to say we saw it with the guy with the "worst stats" on the 90's Sonics in Nate McMillan. Facts showed that the Sonics were a better team when they had both Payton and Mac on the court at the same time, and that's what they did. When Payton was running the point on his own and Mac was on the bench early in Glove's career then he struggled, the team struggled. Then "Glue" started getting extended minutes with "Glove" and the team as a whole became exponentially better and Glove became one of the best players to ever suit up. Interesting to watch statheads blow up when they would go off and say Mac needed to sit down and blahbedy blah blah, but the evidence was in the success that the TEAM was having. Same with Russ. Same with Ichi-balls (thank Buhner for that one), and same with the Sonics rotations in about 95-96-ish. Even Derrick McKey started to play like he was always supposed to.

The irony of this is the best scouting departments use both traditional methods and statistics to evaluate players. The stat geek vs fundamentalist meat-head debate is useless because people can be both or combine their skills with the differing skills of others, and this is exactly what the best scouts and scouting departments do. If you're throwing statistics under the bus when it comes to evaluating players, that's like trying to win a boxing match with your non-dominant hand tied behind your back. It can be done but why voluntarily handicap yourself so severely?

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

The "IT factor" isn't real. It's like "muscle memory" or "intelligence" in that it's a phrase or word we use to describe a variety of different biological nuances and traits combining together to form some immense quality in a person. ("Muscle memory" is used to describe mainly the white matter brain tissue myelin and the very important job it does. "Intelligence" is usually used to describe innate ability and expertise/experience in a given task or set of tasks.) "IT factor" is likely along similar lines with only a subtle advantage separating the good from the great, or there's no advantage at all and we're just saying people have "it" to attribute what's truly a streak of good luck to a person's skill (this is in fact a well-documented bias we all have to some extent or another, although it's based on studying occupations where it's easier to separate luck from skill). Either way, we can't actually say if anyone has "it" or not until we actually know what "it" is. We can keep guessing though.

 

[pehawk]

Good stuff, BirdsCommaAngry. But, I think we are getting close to quantifying "it"...we're getting closer with every nerdy stats sight put up.

And, honestly, I dont know if I'll like the game as much when/if a time comes where the "humanity" portion of the game is able to be measured with a %. I just dont know..

 

[SeaTown81]

It factor is most certainly real. Especially when it comes to NFL qb's. Anyone who argues otherwise works for Skynet and should not be trusted.

 

[Throwdown]

Not gonna lie.....I thought that we should of given Flynn a look at that point. Glad I was wrong though!

OF COURSE YOU DID! Why am I not surprised?!