Revisiting the call - last play of Super Bowl XLIX

[Vancanhawksfan]

[youtube]zAHO6L5tM-w[/youtube]

Not the same play dude. But that's ok...I can post a play where Brandon Browner makes a 100+ yard fumble return from a handoff just to prove the ridiculousness of this discussion:

[youtube]NX1zir_1lb8[/youtube]

Agreed, you started this discussion and after the Super Bowl it was relevant, now it is ridiculous. so what does that say?

It says that the Bevell haters looking to lynch him because of the last play of the Super Bowl are ridiculous and deluded by their blind hatred for him.

 

[chris98251]

You can argue that Browner knows virtually every Seahawks play. That doesn't mean you throw away the entire offensive playbook.

Yes...Browner made a great play but he couldn't know for sure what routes everyone was going to run. Give Browner the credit he deserves, and every SS should take note and do what he did on that formation but the reality is that most safeties don't make that play (including Browner in the past)

In that situation you count on him knowing it and run a different route or have a different primary, not run the play to the person he knows is going to get the ball, again bad judgment on the OC.

In fact post game and weeks after he said he had lined Butler up exactly where he needed to be and knew who and where everyone was going to be, him crashing down on Kearse was the key to blowing it all up.

This is almost as bad as the Bucs knowing all the formations and calls and line calls and signals in their Super Bowl and the Raiders not changing any of them.

 

[drdiags]

Slant or run, to me the bigger issue is the team ran a play out of fear. They had a time-out, play clock is at 27. Instead of trying to figure out how to insure you have 4 plays to get a TD, why not play the way you have always played and that is doing what you do?

The pass play was called so the team could leverage 4 plays. Why not run it, if you don't score call time-out and try again. You could even try a pass on third down and still have a chance to run on 4th. Hindsight being 20/20, the options are endless.

Still to me the thinking seem to deviate from what this team's identity is all about. If the Slant works, we are partying like crazy and it was open but if Wilson doesn't lead Lockette like he did, we probably have to call timeout since he most likely gets tackled short of the goal line if the pass is more into his body.

To me, execution was poor and in a larger picture I felt the team was operating out of fear more than imposing their will in the thinking that lead to the pass. But I don't get paid millions to plan against the best coaches in the NFL just complain about the results.

 

[Largent80]

Look, let's keep it simple. This was, and maybe is, the worst call EVER at a particular moment.

Also, personnel wise, The WORST person to throw a ball to. So........

This play is my definition of EPIC FAIL.

And with that, I throw my last shovel load of dirt on this.

I completely disagree. I think it was the most disappointing result of a play ever for a Seahawks fan and that the Patriot's safety Butler made a once in a lifetime play.

Nope. The play was easy to figure out, and couple that with Kearses' lack of driving Browner back. Game over.

Terrible call. Terrible choice of target. Terrible result = EPIC FAIL. Done. I suggest you get there, you seem obsessed with this. You seem pretty insecure actually in your posts, you remind me of Marvin49 who has 1,000,000,000 excuses for everything, but that's ok, for you at least. I'm not attacking you, just stating my observations.

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

You can argue that Browner knows virtually every Seahawks play. That doesn't mean you throw away the entire offensive playbook.

Yes...Browner made a great play but he couldn't know for sure what routes everyone was going to run. Give Browner the credit he deserves, and every SS should take note and do what he did on that formation but the reality is that most safeties don't make that play (including Browner in the past)

In that situation you count on him knowing it and run a different route or have a different primary, not run the play to the person he knows is going to get the ball, again bad judgment on the OC.

In fact post game and weeks after he said he had lined Butler up exactly where he needed to be and knew who and where everyone was going to be, him crashing down on Kearse was the key to blowing it all up.

This is almost as bad as the Bucs knowing all the formations and calls and line calls and signals in their Super Bowl and the Raiders not changing any of them.

This play wasn't some top secret navy seals offensive where nobody on earth would ever know what they were looking at but insiders. Every offense in the NFL runs this play, and even if Browner hadn't been on the team the Patriots coaches would have seen Seahawks film where they ran this at one point. I even pointed out the play that they ran previously 1 1/2 years ago - its not like any of us wouldn't know that this was in the playbook.

The playbook has hundreds of different plays, many of them similar to this with a myriad of variations to it and the Seahawks have run a myriad of variations of this play since Browner left. Teams play against other teams with former players all the time (how many free agents left the Hawks this year?). Are we going to reinvent the entire playbook because of it? Of course not.

Browner and Belichek guessed this one right. Kudos to them.

 

[Sports Hernia]

[youtube]jE3W6rDpHUM[/youtube]

Should I be stretching???

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

Look, let's keep it simple. This was, and maybe is, the worst call EVER at a particular moment.

Also, personnel wise, The WORST person to throw a ball to. So........

This play is my definition of EPIC FAIL.

And with that, I throw my last shovel load of dirt on this.

I completely disagree. I think it was the most disappointing result of a play ever for a Seahawks fan and that the Patriot's safety Butler made a once in a lifetime play.

Nope. The play was easy to figure out, and couple that with Kearses' lack of driving Browner back. Game over.

Terrible call. Terrible choice of target. Terrible result = EPIC FAIL. Done. I suggest you get there, you seem obsessed with this. You seem pretty insecure actually in your posts, you remind me of Marvin49 who has 1,000,000,000 excuses for everything, but that's ok, for you at least. I'm not attacking you, just stating my observations.

Obsessed? Dude...I don't have 27,000 posts (I'm not attacking you, just stating my observations)

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

Slant or run, to me the bigger issue is the team ran a play out of fear. They had a time-out, play clock is at 27. Instead of trying to figure out how to insure you have 4 plays to get a TD, why not play the way you have always played and that is doing what you do?

The pass play was called so the team could leverage 4 plays. Why not run it, if you don't score call time-out and try again. You could even try a pass on third down and still have a chance to run on 4th. Hindsight being 20/20, the options are endless.

Still to me the thinking seem to deviate from what this team's identity is all about. If the Slant works, we are partying like crazy and it was open but if Wilson doesn't lead Lockette like he did, we probably have to call timeout since he most likely gets tackled short of the goal line if the pass is more into his body.

To me, execution was poor and in a larger picture I felt the team was operating out of fear more than imposing their will in the thinking that lead to the pass. But I don't get paid millions to plan against the best coaches in the NFL just complain about the results.

I truly do not believe they ran that play out of fear because I think they believed they could score with that play and that if they didn't the clock would be stopped.

And then they could run two more plays with Marshawn if they so chose too. Without fear.

 

[chris98251]

This play wasn't some top secret navy seals offensive where nobody on earth would ever know what they were looking at but insiders. Every offense in the NFL runs this play, and even if Browner hadn't been on the team the Patriots coaches would have seen Seahawks film where they ran this at one point. I even pointed out the play that they ran previously 1 1/2 years ago - its not like any of us wouldn't know that this was in the playbook.

The playbook has hundreds of different plays, many of them similar to this with a myriad of variations to it and the Seahawks have run a myriad of variations of this play since Browner left. Teams play against other teams with former players all the time (how many free agents left the Hawks this year?). Are we going to reinvent the entire playbook because of it? Of course not.

Browner and Belichek guessed this one right. Kudos to them.

It's not a guess if you know it and specifically dialed things up for it out of hundreds and hundreds of plays in the playbook. They did not guess.


The argument is over, Pete will back Bevell cause he is a class guy, unlike Bevell who immediately thru Lockette under the bus as soon as he was challenged on it. Classy coach and guy using your players as a scape goat. He put him in a unfamiliar roll and position and then blames him for a call that should not have been made.

Just another reason people have an issue with him.

 

[grizbob]

I once had a neighbor that had a Chihuahua I'm starting to remember the disdain I had for that damn little dog :roll:

 

[drdiags]

We can agree to disagree. I can understand wanting to squeeze every minute out of the clock but they did run their sequence of plays based on Pete's interview so that they could have the ability to run all 4 of their plays if needed.

Smart coaching but "to me" it appears to deviate from their bravado of doing what they do and having the other team defend them.

Maybe some of those disastrous end of the half Redzone plays with Jeremy Bates/Carroll/Bevill/Cable made them rethink how they sequence plays? Maybe fear is not the correct word but I am thinking Big Balls Pete when he first got here isn't thinking about a 4 play sequence to milk the clock and keep Brady from ripping the defense a new one.

This is all conversation anyway but those are my point of view regarding the end of the game. I have no skin in the game in the Pro/Anti-Bevell debate. Pete swears by him, so whether folks like him or not, he is here until further notice.

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

This play wasn't some top secret navy seals offensive where nobody on earth would ever know what they were looking at but insiders. Every offense in the NFL runs this play, and even if Browner hadn't been on the team the Patriots coaches would have seen Seahawks film where they ran this at one point. I even pointed out the play that they ran previously 1 1/2 years ago - its not like any of us wouldn't know that this was in the playbook.

The playbook has hundreds of different plays, many of them similar to this with a myriad of variations to it and the Seahawks have run a myriad of variations of this play since Browner left. Teams play against other teams with former players all the time (how many free agents left the Hawks this year?). Are we going to reinvent the entire playbook because of it? Of course not.

Browner and Belichek guessed this one right. Kudos to them.

It's not a guess if you know it and specifically dialed things up for it out of hundreds and hundreds of plays in the playbook. They did not guess.


The argument is over, Pete will back Bevell cause he is a class guy, unlike Bevell who immediately thru Lockette under the bus as soon as he was challenged on it. Classy coach and guy using your players as a scape goat. He put him in a unfamiliar roll and position and then blames him for a call that should not have been made.

Just another reason people have an issue with him.

Of course its a guess. Browner could not know they weren't going to run a variation of the play or even something completely different just because he recognized the formation. Its no different than a hitter "guessing" slider or a fastball or a poker player making a read on his opponent. Its an educated guess but its still a guess...and he got it right. Defensive players get plays right all the time...and they get them wrong all the time too.

Or are you going to tell me that the Seahawks have never run any other play out of this formation in the years that Browner was on this team?

p.s. - but I do agree with you on the comments that Darrell made about his player. That was poor form.

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

We can agree to disagree. I can understand wanting to squeeze every minute out of the clock but they did run their sequence of plays based on Pete's interview so that they could have the ability to run all 4 of their plays if needed.

Smart coaching but "to me" it appears to deviate from their bravado of doing what they do and having the other team defend them.

Maybe some of those disastrous end of the half Redzone plays with Jeremy Bates/Carroll/Bevill/Cable made them rethink how they sequence plays? Maybe fear is not the correct word but I am thinking Big Balls Pete when he first got here isn't thinking about a 4 play sequence to milk the clock and keep Brady from ripping the defense a new one.

This is all conversation anyway but those are my point of view regarding the end of the game. I have no skin in the game in the Pro/Anti-Bevell debate. Pete swears by him, so whether folks like him or not, he is here until further notice.

Fair enough. Just remember that with Pete's decision, he still gets to run Marshawn twice more if the 2nd down play goes incomplete (and disaster doesn't strike of course)...no less than the number of times than they would have had the opportunity to run him if they chose to run on 2nd down right away like you would want instead...

 

[Year of The Hawk]

Would it have been a bad play call if we would have scored? Would everyone be calling for Bevels head then? I think not. The only reason it was a failed play is because the DB mad a great play. Simple. They beat us on that play. It could also have been executed better as well but like I said the biggest factor on that play was the DB making a great read and jump on the ball. Plenty of other plays int he game that could have made things different. Is anyone calling out our defensive coordinator for letting up 2 touchdown near end of game. I am not.

 

[drdiags]

Yeah, I realize the 2nd down pass ending in an incomplete pass sets up the 2 runs. I don't have an issue with how the play sequence went considering their rationale. The play was there to be made. I don't have an issue with Bevell.

I just raised my thoughts on the end. My agenda is not to defend or bash the coaches or the play call. I am just considering the mindset about insuring you can use all your downs. Shows the level of understanding required when coaching at the highest level vs Joe Fan (me) who says just run it twice and tip your hat if the Pats stop you.

Then of course we would see folks asking why the coaches didn't playcall so they could get 4 cracks at it. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

Again, no feelings one way or the other on the coaches since I think that is what this discussion really is centered on.

 

[chris98251]

This play wasn't some top secret navy seals offensive where nobody on earth would ever know what they were looking at but insiders. Every offense in the NFL runs this play, and even if Browner hadn't been on the team the Patriots coaches would have seen Seahawks film where they ran this at one point. I even pointed out the play that they ran previously 1 1/2 years ago - its not like any of us wouldn't know that this was in the playbook.

The playbook has hundreds of different plays, many of them similar to this with a myriad of variations to it and the Seahawks have run a myriad of variations of this play since Browner left. Teams play against other teams with former players all the time (how many free agents left the Hawks this year?). Are we going to reinvent the entire playbook because of it? Of course not.

Browner and Belichek guessed this one right. Kudos to them.

It's not a guess if you know it and specifically dialed things up for it out of hundreds and hundreds of plays in the playbook. They did not guess.


The argument is over, Pete will back Bevell cause he is a class guy, unlike Bevell who immediately thru Lockette under the bus as soon as he was challenged on it. Classy coach and guy using your players as a scape goat. He put him in a unfamiliar roll and position and then blames him for a call that should not have been made.

Just another reason people have an issue with him.

Of course its a guess. Browner could not know they weren't going to run a variation of the play or even something completely different just because he recognized the formation. Its no different than a hitter "guessing" slider or a fastball or a poker player making a read on his opponent. Its an educated guess but its still a guess...and he got it right. Defensive players get plays right all the time...and they get them wrong all the time too.

Or are you going to tell me that the Seahawks have never run any other play out of this formation in the years that Browner was on this team?

p.s. - but I do agree with you on the comments that Darrell made about his player. That was poor form.

You mean like the variation of the Bubble screen plays that Bevell runs over and over again without deviations, it's why we are easy to defend, our route trees are the most simplistic in the league, if you have read anything from the opposition on us we have the easiest system to defend in the league, it's when we run a rare variation that we burn teams badly, and it's typically on deep routes.

Why we have defenses stacking the box on us, they know our route trees almost as good as we do based on our packages.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Would it have been a bad play call if we would have scored? Would everyone be calling for Bevels head then? I think not. The only reason it was a failed play is because the DB mad a great play. Simple. They beat us on that play. It could also have been executed better as well but like I said the biggest factor on that play was the DB making a great read and jump on the ball. Plenty of other plays int he game that could have made things different. Is anyone calling out our defensive coordinator for letting up 2 touchdown near end of game. I am not.

Here I go again.... I've never been a fan of Bevell, so my dislike of his playcalling just didn't happen because of the epic fail of a call in SB 49......... IMHO the talent of his stud QB and RB bail his poor playcalling out more times than not..........

yes I would have said it was a bad call even if it they scored..... It's about taking an unnecessary risk with a championship on the line, while needing only half a yard with the best RB in the league yards after contact wise against the 31st ranked goal line defense........ If Lynch would have fumbled as the other guy thinks he would have, I would have been able to accept that easier since it would be the safer and more logical play call.


Ok, I'm done with this debate, and I mean it this time.......... 8)

It's "I'm Jimmy" time! :th2thumbs:

 

[Sac]

[youtube]jE3W6rDpHUM[/youtube]

Should I be stretching???

It's probably a good idea if you're going to be swinging around anything heavy.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

I dont think this team was making the "safe" calls all game. Look at the touchdown at the end of the 1st half. Nobody is criticizing that because it worked. If not well...... I can understand why people are critical of Bevel in general but this play was not "the dumbest play". Like Pete said it was the WORST OUTCOMES of a play. IMHO people are directing more of the blame to Bevell (and yes he definitely deserves some after several 3 and outs) since it culminated in the last play. Lots of blame to go around in this game. There should also be some praise as well. Just a close one that we lost. Dam it.

And no you will never be done. We will drag you in until you break and learn to praise Bevell as the greatest OC in the History of the game

 

[themunn]

Vancanhawksfan, In the locked thread you stated in one of your posts, please allow me to rephrase, that you believe handing off to Marshawn Lynch from 1 yd line is a higher risk than throwing the ball. The only evidence you give to support that is that Lynch fumbled in the 2013 NFCCG. Lynch fumbled only once....yet you believe that giving him the ball is a high risk? He's scored more touchdowns than he's fumbled from that distance, yet giving him the ball is a higher risk? Hmmm....I disagree.

For what it's worth, Lynch also fumbled against the Redskins on the 1 yard line in 2012.