-The Glove-
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He shouldn't even apologized except for not being more clear with his point
Yep. As mentioned earlier on this thread, a half season for smoking weed and 2 games for beating the wife. Seems about right Rog.nanomoz":w3555wg1 said:On topic: count me among those that thing the NFL's featherweight 2-game suspension for domestic violence--that was captured on tape--is absolutely horrifying.
Yes, there's circumstances we don't know. But no one's who's seen that footage can justify such an assault on a woman (let alone a woman that is clearly inebriated).
kearly":1utsyq4i said:With Rice, we didn't actually see the attack, we just saw that she was knocked out. Him dragging her around was just him trying to get her off the elevator, and most likely, to seek medical attention. What he did is inexcusable, I just don't find the dragging itself to be anything of note.
Lmao.Marvin49":9g2czzeu said:loafoftatupu":9g2czzeu said:Marvin49":9g2czzeu said:OK...then why SHOULDN'T the 5 games count toward the suspension?
I think they should count towards the suspension he would get for the DUI, it is the other 3 convictions I think he should be suspended for. Even that doesn't really bother me though, I don't think it should even be illegal, but it is.
This is what gets me though, dudes get tested for Substance abuse and suspended. Smith, Lockette, Patton and KaeperSpaz all were associated with the cheeb, Smith had it in the car, Lockette and KaeperSpaz had it in the hotel room, yet no one is taking/failing any tests that we know of.
Dude that hits his woman should be DONE, until he can prove that he addressed his problem. The guy did it on video, that is some jacked up stuff. Now Rice went through some kind of program, but players are getting NAILED for smoking pot like it is a serious crime.
RE: Weed. As far as I know, the weed in Aldons car was a false report. Supposedly the Police said that there was no weed found. He was also never charged for possession. As for Kap, the only person claiming it was there is a woman who stalked Kap, freaked out when he had other women in the house (even though he didn't invite her there), ran into the bedroom, stripped naked, and started yelling about angels and demons. She then told the police she didn't know how she got to the hospital and that Kap took her clothes off. To say her credibility is stretched is an understatement.
RE: Hitting a woman. Agreed. In my book, that's all she wrote. That's why I continue to have an issue with Parrish Cox and why I was pretty upset when the first reports came out about the incident with Kap.
kearly":133bltdn said:With Rice, we didn't actually see the attack, we just saw that she was knocked out. Him dragging her around was just him trying to get her off the elevator, and most likely, to seek medical attention. What he did is inexcusable, I just don't find the dragging itself to be anything of note.
UPDATE – Tuesday, July 29, 2014, 4:35 p.m. ET: “ESPN announced today that Stephen A. Smith will not appear on First Take or ESPN Radio for the next week. He will return to ESPN next Wednesday.”
Smelly McUgly":146220mw said:I do think your points are fair except for your assertion that bringing up Dungy's conservative religious views (that he has publicly offered) or his race (in this context, in which his inability to empathize is laid bare) is at all bigoted.
Archer":146220mw said:You watch that video of him dragging her off the elevator... letting her drop to the floor, kicking her legs out of the way of the door, and you actually think he is worried about her medical state? That's insane to me and I really think that you are seeing what you want to see.
Archer":146220mw said:There is never an excuse for it and putting the onus on the woman to not "provoke her man" is horrible and the exact wrong message we need to be sending.
kidhawk":146220mw said:Stephen A Smith was suspended from ESPN for a week for his comments, likely costing him a similar sum as Rice and only one week less and Rice actually committed the act. Not saying that Smith's suspension isn't warranted, just that it makes Rices look even lighter in view of the two actions.
Sgt. Largent":146220mw said:Even if she was hitting him and freaking out, he had to have hit her hard enough to knock her unconscious. Either way, NOT good........and certainly deserving of more than two games.
kearly":1zoqaznf said:Smelly McUgly":1zoqaznf said:I do think your points are fair except for your assertion that bringing up Dungy's conservative religious views (that he has publicly offered) or his race (in this context, in which his inability to empathize is laid bare) is at all bigoted.
The majority hold the same views and many of them are non-black and/or non-christian. To cite race/religion only for Dungy selectively is making unfair assumptions based on his race and religion. It also strikes me as a way of disregarding the points he makes by wiping them away with the pretense that he's close-minded. Which is also unfair. Dungy makes fair points and most people in the NFL saw it the same way he did.
kearly":qmbctedl said:I see it the exact opposite. Yes, there are a lot of deadbeat guys who are 100% guilty and their women are the victims 100%. But there are also a lot of men who would not go so far as this without significant, intentional provocation. If the ultimate goal is to reduce domestic violence, then why only ask men to show restraint? Ask both sexes to be mindful of their behavior and fewer incidents will occur. As glove and many others have observed, our cultural double standard can actually exacerbate domestic violence because it creates an environment where some women become emboldened as instigators thinking they are untouchable rather than taking responsibility by not escalating violence themselves.
It doesn't justify the violence, nobody thinks that. But if you want less violence, then we need to stop creating a fertile environment for instigators and then giving them a free pass when they contribute to domestic violence. Less instigation means less violence. Less violence is the goal, and we should be open-minded about ways to achieve it. That's all Stephan A. is saying and I think his message is helpful, even if society isn't ready to hear it.
I see this issue equated to "she shouldn't have worn that" all the time. Provocation in this case is doing something explicitly to deserve an equal or greater reaction. The fact that she was also charged with simple assault is proof she wasn't completely innocent-unlike a girl dressing provocatively. Of course, Ray Rice's reaction was extreme but to say she didn't provoke him is completely falseArcher":1gzd3fu4 said:kearly":1gzd3fu4 said:I see it the exact opposite. Yes, there are a lot of deadbeat guys who are 100% guilty and their women are the victims 100%. But there are also a lot of men who would not go so far as this without significant, intentional provocation. If the ultimate goal is to reduce domestic violence, then why only ask men to show restraint? Ask both sexes to be mindful of their behavior and fewer incidents will occur. As glove and many others have observed, our cultural double standard can actually exacerbate domestic violence because it creates an environment where some women become emboldened as instigators thinking they are untouchable rather than taking responsibility by not escalating violence themselves.
It doesn't justify the violence, nobody thinks that. But if you want less violence, then we need to stop creating a fertile environment for instigators and then giving them a free pass when they contribute to domestic violence. Less instigation means less violence. Less violence is the goal, and we should be open-minded about ways to achieve it. That's all Stephan A. is saying and I think his message is helpful, even if society isn't ready to hear it.
The issue is that you're victim blaming, akin to "she shouldn't have worn that dress" or "been drinking". I know you don't and won't see it that way, so I won't keep harping on this after this post.
Trying to draw that line is impossible and nebulous territory... is it provocation if she tells him to "screw off" or looks at another man? How much slapping is enough to result in her getting knocked unconscious? This is besides the fact, that a lot of domestic violence turns deadly, and 99% of the time that is toward the woman. I know you're against violence and think Rice is scum, but...
It doesn't justify rape, nobody thinks that. But if you want less sexual assault, then we need to stop creating a fertile environment for instigators and then giving them a free pass when they contribute to sexual assault.
Men and women live in different worlds and victim blaming is a dangerous game.
Archer":210ekg06 said:The issue is that you're victim blaming, akin to "she shouldn't have worn that dress" or "been drinking". I know you don't and won't see it that way, so I won't keep harping on this after this post.
Trying to draw that line is impossible and nebulous territory... is it provocation if she tells him to "screw off" or looks at another man? How much slapping is enough to result in her getting knocked unconscious? This is besides the fact, that a lot of domestic violence turns deadly, and 99% of the time that is toward the woman. I know you're against violence and think Rice is scum, but...
It doesn't justify rape, nobody thinks that. But if you want less sexual assault, then we need to stop creating a fertile environment for instigators and then giving them a free pass when they contribute to sexual assault.
Men and women live in different worlds and victim blaming is a dangerous game.
Smelly McUgly":29pb6shq said:I don't see how an appeal to bandwagon makes Dungy immune from criticism.