Petes Cryptic Message

[Steve Hawk]

Pete doesn't seem the type to just bow out. I realize he left SC, but that was different circumstances.

I think he is still in it for the long haul, possibly even longer than his current contract. No body ever said this was his last contract. It has just been assumed.

 

[pittpnthrs]

People keep saying this, but it doesn't make sense.

Pete and John have three years left on their deal, plenty of time to rebuild if that's the way they want to go. It's done all the time, look at what NE did, cleared their cap space, went hard after free agents and found their next young QB.

We did it 10 years ago, took 2-3 years to build the SB champs.

That's what makes the NFL the greatest league on the planet, there are no haves and have nots perennially. With revenue sharing any organization if ran properly, drafts well and makes good free agent and personnel decisions can win it all.

Now are Pete and John the right coach and GM to pull off another rebuild? That's another conversation. But to say there's no time? That's not correct at all.

The last part is the most important part. Even if they had a ton of high draft picks and a ton of cap cash, I have zero confidence in Pete and John to be able to rebuild. Just way to many misses for to many years now.

 

[ZagHawk]

As it is the Seahawks are not a legitimate contender and without trade options or draft picks, it isn't going to get better any time soon. Imagine losing Rus, Wagner, Metcalf and Penny? What's left?

And do you think with the regressing play/aging combined with the continued/increased cost of some of those players suddenly the team is going to be able to become a legitimate contender even in the next 2 years without having to give up some of those players while they are still even remotely valuable?

If the NFL had no salary cap then by all means keep every amazing player and just keep adding to it, but that's not how it works. Teams do have to make some sacrifices, pay some players that are just absolutely crucial despite their market cost and then let others go and try to find rookies to plug that hole. It is a gamble, but it's what it takes. Otherwise you just prolong the inevitable sinking ship that eventually becomes a big mess that needs a full rebuild which this team is rapidly headed to

 

[TwistedHusky]

It makes sense because Pete's process requires a few years of aggregating draft picks to work.

You need to have 1-2 years with a few picks at each slot.

That takes preparation.

And a good replacement QB does not come by every year. You have to find one of the good diamonds in the rough, they can't be a top 3 draft pick, and then you have to be in position to get him.

Someone like that appears maybe every 3 years if you optimistic, probably only every 4-5.

Additionally, last time he had Scott, who was good at picking winners. Now he does not.

With Scott you have a good chance at building a stacked roster in 2-3 years.

Without him, figure 3-5.

Does Pete have 3-5 years to rebuild the roster before we even get competitive/good again?

Because that is how long it would take.

 

[GaiusMarius]

Pete does not have time to rebuild this team.

People keep saying this, but it doesn't make sense.

Pete and John have three years left on their deal, plenty of time to rebuild if that's the way they want to go. It's done all the time, look at what NE did, cleared their cap space, went hard after free agents and found their next young QB.

We did it 10 years ago, took 2-3 years to build the SB champs.

That's what makes the NFL the greatest league on the planet, there are no haves and have nots perennially. With revenue sharing any organization if ran properly, drafts well and makes good free agent and personnel decisions can win it all.

Now are Pete and John the right coach and GM to pull off another rebuild? That's another conversation. But to say there's no time? That's not correct at all.

How old is Pete?

Realize he may not be as patient as you to sniff success again.

Pete's 70. Belichick's 69 and just went through a roster overhaul.

Guarantee you Pete's age is not a factor in this conversation. Pretty sure he also isn't interested in being the 3rd or 4th best team in his own division for the rest of his contract either.

You can't guarantee that, neither can I since we don't know what Carroll actually thinks. He is the oldest head coach in the NFL now and in a division where younger coaches have kicked his tail (Niners being the big exception).

But we can tell by his actions. Is he someone that comes across as wanting to build a contender or making crazy, high risk moves to push us "over the top"?

The Jamal Addams trade was born out of that misguided thinking, which hurt us big time in the draft and for longer term building prospects.

He wants to win NOW.

 

[TwistedHusky]

The other issue with the rebuild is can he be patient?

How is he going to deal with Seahawk fans ripping him up and down for over a year, if he trades Wilson, and Wilson lights it up somewhere else while the Seahawks struggle?

Are we going to mortgage our future to get to 9 wins in Year 2 because we want to win now? So will we sell off more picks and players to try to get aging vets to keep us afloat? All hamstringing the actual recovery process?

Because that is my fear.

 

[James in PA]

I bet Pete and John think they CAN win now if they get a middle of the road, veteran QB to manage the game while adding some impact players via FA and via the draft (with the picks they'll get for Russ). I know there would be fans who highly doubt that, but I bet Pete and John think they can do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[xray]

Ok xray, you go ahead and crawl back to your basement and get in your Trump PJ's you miserable old buzzard. You're a whiner. Pure and simple.

^
You're so fun to play with and piss-off . TUVM...Muaaaaaaaaaah

 

[toffee]

Well, let us hope that Pete's ego does not get in the way of Pete realizing that he could not succeed without Wilson.

Unless the plan is to be terrible for 1-2 years to get a coveted high draft pick to potentially get a top QB (or trade for a high draft pick the next year) - it would make no sense.

Pete does not have time to rebuild this team.

This is going to be like when we traded Randy Johnson away because he was 'too old', 'cranky', 'hurt'.

Sure the Mariners got some pieces back, but Randy went to win a World Series and the Mariners never really were a playoff threat again. With Randy, they were.

If a player is a key reason you are a playoff threat, and you trade that player - then expect your ability to continue to be a playoff threat will significantly diminish if not disappear altogether.

Top QBs, for the most part, get in the playoffs consistently. Because the rules are all canted to benefit the passing team offenses and limit the defenses' ability to stop same.

Take away all those games we won by those Wilson 4 qtr comebacks and you get a .500 team...if that.

Let's not pretend that Pete could do the same thing with another QB that we could reasonably get. (Unless we trade Wilson to the 49ers for Jimmy G and their rookie QB)

Pete Carroll is Russell Wilson's biggest Homer, he is not going to set Russell free unless Russ publicly demands a trade and sit out long enough to show his determination.

Pete Carroll is also on hot seat and Jody may have put him on one year probation, he doesn't have time and luxury to draft and develop a new QB.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[olyfan63]

I think the answer to the question is that there are more than one way to win a SB. I think it just depends on how good the teams are at doing what they do. perfect example is the 2013 Seahawks vs the Bronco's
LTH

THIS. Pete tried the model of "Pay your top 10 game manager QB as if he were a top 3 elite passing QB while being 5-7 talented players short of being a legit contender" and found that with this model he still made the playoffs but lost in the wildcard or divisional round.

Pete and the Seahawks SB playoff runs were based on the model, "Have a mobile, running top 10 game manager QB on a cheap rookie contract, behind a cheap road-grader O-Line, pay a bell-cow RB, and load up on game-changing Defensive talent".

I think Pete (rightly) knows he can be successful again with this model. The current team is much closer to being successful with this model again than most people realize. The emergence of Rashaad Penny and Jake Curhan were key, and the D is very close to being good again with young stars like Jordyn Brooks and Darrell Taylor.

Trading Russell for picks and players, getting lucky with a rookie contract QB, or a cheap vet QB who massively outplays his contract, ala Case Keenum of the Viking's Minnesota Miracle, and signing some key, high value Free Agents on D, hitting a couple-three or even five picks in the draft, and this team could surpass everyone's expectations and get past the divisional round for once. It's really not even that farfetched.

Pete has shown his evolution as a coach on both sides of the ball, even if so many here stubbornly refuse to see it. Proof: committing to Shane Waldron, enough to see the late-season success. Proof: Firing KNJ, going with smaller, non-Richard Sherman CBs, finally cutting Tre Flowers.

Pete's original model still works, with minor adaptations. Essentially a variation of Pete's model has gotten SF to the NFCCG. Can't forget to also include Pete's emphasis on quality special teams play as a key part of his model. The Niners special teams put them in the NFCCG. The 2014 Seahawks Special Teams put them into SB49. (Fake punt TD Jon Ryan to Garry Gilliam, Onside kick recovery, 2-point conversion to Luke Willson) Poor Packers have been screwed by Special Teams failures in playoffs twice in recent memory now.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

People keep saying this, but it doesn't make sense.

Pete and John have three years left on their deal, plenty of time to rebuild if that's the way they want to go. It's done all the time, look at what NE did, cleared their cap space, went hard after free agents and found their next young QB.

We did it 10 years ago, took 2-3 years to build the SB champs.

That's what makes the NFL the greatest league on the planet, there are no haves and have nots perennially. With revenue sharing any organization if ran properly, drafts well and makes good free agent and personnel decisions can win it all.

Now are Pete and John the right coach and GM to pull off another rebuild? That's another conversation. But to say there's no time? That's not correct at all.

How old is Pete?

Realize he may not be as patient as you to sniff success again.

Pete's 70. Belichick's 69 and just went through a roster overhaul.

Guarantee you Pete's age is not a factor in this conversation. Pretty sure he also isn't interested in being the 3rd or 4th best team in his own division for the rest of his contract either.

You can't guarantee that, neither can I since we don't know what Carroll actually thinks. He is the oldest head coach in the NFL now and in a division where younger coaches have kicked his tail (Niners being the big exception).

But we can tell by his actions. Is he someone that comes across as wanting to build a contender or making crazy, high risk moves to push us "over the top"?

The Jamal Addams trade was born out of that misguided thinking, which hurt us big time in the draft and for longer term building prospects.

He wants to win NOW.

I'm not saying either way is the right way, obviously both ways carry risk.

I'm merely saying Pete's age has nothing to do with his and John's decision to blow it up and start over or try to win with Russ and add pieces.

 

[chris98251]

I think the answer to the question is that there are more than one way to win a SB. I think it just depends on how good the teams are at doing what they do. perfect example is the 2013 Seahawks vs the Bronco's
LTH

THIS. Pete tried the model of "Pay your top 10 game manager QB as if he were a top 3 elite passing QB while being 5-7 talented players short of being a legit contender" and found that with this model he still made the playoffs but lost in the wildcard or divisional round.

Pete and the Seahawks SB playoff runs were based on the model, "Have a mobile, running top 10 game manager QB on a cheap rookie contract, behind a cheap road-grader O-Line, pay a bell-cow RB, and load up on game-changing Defensive talent".

I think Pete (rightly) knows he can be successful again with this model. The current team is much closer to being successful with this model again than most people realize. The emergence of Rashaad Penny and Jake Curhan were key, and the D is very close to being good again with young stars like Jordyn Brooks and Darrell Taylor.

Trading Russell for picks and players, getting lucky with a rookie contract QB, or a cheap vet QB who massively outplays his contract, ala Case Keenum of the Viking's Minnesota Miracle, and signing some key, high value Free Agents on D, hitting a couple-three or even five picks in the draft, and this team could surpass everyone's expectations and get past the divisional round for once. It's really not even that farfetched.

Pete has shown his evolution as a coach on both sides of the ball, even if so many here stubbornly refuse to see it. Proof: committing to Shane Waldron, enough to see the late-season success. Proof: Firing KNJ, going with smaller, non-Richard Sherman CBs, finally cutting Tre Flowers.

Pete's original model still works, with minor adaptations. Essentially a variation of Pete's model has gotten SF to the NFCCG. Can't forget to also include Pete's emphasis on quality special teams play as a key part of his model. The Niners special teams put them in the NFCCG. The 2014 Seahawks Special Teams put them into SB49. (Fake punt TD Jon Ryan to Garry Gilliam, Onside kick recovery, 2-point conversion to Luke Willson) Poor Packers have been screwed by Special Teams failures in playoffs twice in recent memory now.

We don't have Penny now, he is a F.A.

 

[camdawg]

THIS. Pete tried the model of "Pay your top 10 game manager QB as if he were a top 3 elite passing QB while being 5-7 talented players short of being a legit contender" and found that with this model he still made the playoffs but lost in the wildcard or divisional round.

Pete and the Seahawks SB playoff runs were based on the model, "Have a mobile, running top 10 game manager QB on a cheap rookie contract, behind a cheap road-grader O-Line, pay a bell-cow RB, and load up on game-changing Defensive talent".

I think Pete (rightly) knows he can be successful again with this model. The current team is much closer to being successful with this model again than most people realize. The emergence of Rashaad Penny and Jake Curhan were key, and the D is very close to being good again with young stars like Jordyn Brooks and Darrell Taylor.

Trading Russell for picks and players, getting lucky with a rookie contract QB, or a cheap vet QB who massively outplays his contract, ala Case Keenum of the Viking's Minnesota Miracle, and signing some key, high value Free Agents on D, hitting a couple-three or even five picks in the draft, and this team could surpass everyone's expectations and get past the divisional round for once. It's really not even that farfetched.

Pete has shown his evolution as a coach on both sides of the ball, even if so many here stubbornly refuse to see it. Proof: committing to Shane Waldron, enough to see the late-season success. Proof: Firing KNJ, going with smaller, non-Richard Sherman CBs, finally cutting Tre Flowers.

Pete's original model still works, with minor adaptations. Essentially a variation of Pete's model has gotten SF to the NFCCG. Can't forget to also include Pete's emphasis on quality special teams play as a key part of his model. The Niners special teams put them in the NFCCG. The 2014 Seahawks Special Teams put them into SB49. (Fake punt TD Jon Ryan to Garry Gilliam, Onside kick recovery, 2-point conversion to Luke Willson) Poor Packers have been screwed by Special Teams failures in playoffs twice in recent memory now.

You really think Russell Wilson is a game manager? A guy that's thrown 292 touchdowns in his regular season career to only 87 interceptions is a game manager? You think a top 10 quarterback is a game manager?

You should watch the 2011 season over again on Game Pass. You can skip the first eight games and watch from the Baltimore upset onwards. Even with our game manager QB playing well by his standards....watch the Redskins and 49ers games. See how we don't get the big offensive play when we need it. And watch that great defense choke a ten point 4th quarter lead away versus the Skins, and give up a late go ahead TD to Alex Smith and the 49ers when they had a 17-14 lead with just a few minutes to go. Without a playmaker like Russ, that model was never going to be good enough.

Any good veteran game manager now costs good money. Instead of $35 million dollar Russ, let's use $15 million to get a guy the level of Case Keenum during his good single season in Minnesota. That savings allows you to get two Pro Bowl ish upgrades elsewhere on the roster. Does that difference come close to the downgrade at quarterback?

During that one good season Keenum had in Minnesota, he still only threw 22 touchdowns. Russell's done better than that during every year of his career, except 2014. Keenum's 7.4 yards per attempt that season has been bettered by Russ every single year except 2017. Bad Russ....is better than Good Keenum.

The only way to save a ton of money at the QB position so you have huge cap room is to draft a guy. And most likely, you're getting a guy that struggles like Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Mitch Trubisky, Blake Bortles, etc. A Mac Jones is as good as you can hope for. And as good as he was for the Pats this year, Jones threw for more INTS, less TDs, and had a lower yards per attempt than 2012-2013 Russ.

And then there's the part that always gets left out when saying young Russ was just a game manager - and that's his rushing ability. There isn't a QB we can draft that's going to add 500 yards of rushing per season to our totals, and can throw the ball well at the same time like young Russ could. If Lamar Jackson was in this draft? Sure, trade Russ and draft him. But if you want a dynamic runner at QB, you're most likely taking a Trey Lance type. A guy who's nowhere near as good a passer as Russ was at NC State and Wisconsin.

As the Packers loss to the 49ers showed, special teams is definitely key. Question is - is Pete the coach we can count on to take care of this? He did have the brilliant draft pick of Dickson. However, he's also the guy that decided he didn't like Clint Gresham anymore, screwing up our reliable battery of Gresham, Ryan, and Haushka. It messed Haushka up, so Pete replaces him with Blair Walsh, who singlehandedly cost us a 2017 playoff berth. So not sure his judgement can be trusted.

 

[Elemas]

/curtains.

Great post camdawg.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

.....

 

[Jville]

THIS. Pete tried the model of "Pay your top 10 game manager QB as if he were a top 3 elite passing QB while being 5-7 talented players short of being a legit contender" and found that with this model he still made the playoffs but lost in the wildcard or divisional round.

Pete and the Seahawks SB playoff runs were based on the model, "Have a mobile, running top 10 game manager QB on a cheap rookie contract, behind a cheap road-grader O-Line, pay a bell-cow RB, and load up on game-changing Defensive talent".

I think Pete (rightly) knows he can be successful again with this model. The current team is much closer to being successful with this model again than most people realize. The emergence of Rashaad Penny and Jake Curhan were key, and the D is very close to being good again with young stars like Jordyn Brooks and Darrell Taylor.

Trading Russell for picks and players, getting lucky with a rookie contract QB, or a cheap vet QB who massively outplays his contract, ala Case Keenum of the Viking's Minnesota Miracle, and signing some key, high value Free Agents on D, hitting a couple-three or even five picks in the draft, and this team could surpass everyone's expectations and get past the divisional round for once. It's really not even that farfetched.

Pete has shown his evolution as a coach on both sides of the ball, even if so many here stubbornly refuse to see it. Proof: committing to Shane Waldron, enough to see the late-season success. Proof: Firing KNJ, going with smaller, non-Richard Sherman CBs, finally cutting Tre Flowers.

Pete's original model still works, with minor adaptations. Essentially a variation of Pete's model has gotten SF to the NFCCG. Can't forget to also include Pete's emphasis on quality special teams play as a key part of his model. The Niners special teams put them in the NFCCG. The 2014 Seahawks Special Teams put them into SB49. (Fake punt TD Jon Ryan to Garry Gilliam, Onside kick recovery, 2-point conversion to Luke Willson) Poor Packers have been screwed by Special Teams failures in playoffs twice in recent memory now.

You really think Russell Wilson is a game manager? A guy that's thrown 292 touchdowns in his regular season career to only 87 interceptions is a game manager? You think a top 10 quarterback is a game manager?

You should watch the 2011 season over again on Game Pass. You can skip the first eight games and watch from the Baltimore upset onwards. Even with our game manager QB playing well by his standards....watch the Redskins and 49ers games. See how we don't get the big offensive play when we need it. And watch that great defense choke a ten point 4th quarter lead away versus the Skins, and give up a late go ahead TD to Alex Smith and the 49ers when they had a 17-14 lead with just a few minutes to go. Without a playmaker like Russ, that model was never going to be good enough.

Any good veteran game manager now costs good money. Instead of $35 million dollar Russ, let's use $15 million to get a guy the level of Case Keenum during his good single season in Minnesota. That savings allows you to get two Pro Bowl ish upgrades elsewhere on the roster. Does that difference come close to the downgrade at quarterback?

During that one good season Keenum had in Minnesota, he still only threw 22 touchdowns. Russell's done better than that during every year of his career, except 2014. Keenum's 7.4 yards per attempt that season has been bettered by Russ every single year except 2017. Bad Russ....is better than Good Keenum.

The only way to save a ton of money at the QB position so you have huge cap room is to draft a guy. And most likely, you're getting a guy that struggles like Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Mitch Trubisky, Blake Bortles, etc. A Mac Jones is as good as you can hope for. And as good as he was for the Pats this year, Jones threw for more INTS, less TDs, and had a lower yards per attempt than 2012-2013 Russ.

And then there's the part that always gets left out when saying young Russ was just a game manager - and that's his rushing ability. There isn't a QB we can draft that's going to add 500 yards of rushing per season to our totals, and can throw the ball well at the same time like young Russ could. If Lamar Jackson was in this draft? Sure, trade Russ and draft him. But if you want a dynamic runner at QB, you're most likely taking a Trey Lance type. A guy who's nowhere near as good a passer as Russ was at NC State and Wisconsin.

As the Packers loss to the 49ers showed, special teams is definitely key. Question is - is Pete the coach we can count on to take care of this? He did have the brilliant draft pick of Dickson. However, he's also the guy that decided he didn't like Clint Gresham anymore, screwing up our reliable battery of Gresham, Ryan, and Haushka. It messed Haushka up, so Pete replaces him with Blair Walsh, who singlehandedly cost us a 2017 playoff berth. So not sure his judgement can be trusted.

Did you read his post all the way thru?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Clearly I didn't :irishdrinkers:
Go Hawks