Pete is destroying Russell Wilson career

[Seymour]

Faster starts in the 1st half are a real issue that can't just be ignored. Folding your arms and saying "this is what we do" and not adjusting is going to cost them more games in the future. Just because the formula works MOST of the time (mainly with Russ saving the day and/or overcoming crap 1st half predictable play calling) doesn't mean that it's no big deal. The D was brutal most of the time this season, yet they still went 11-5 and won a playoff game.
They look out place and confused on defense all the time imo.

So basically the system works 90% of the time so why change it. Hmm I don't know maybe to see if we can go for 95% of the time., The other question are we succeeding because of this system or despite it.? Also as it relates to the system since the end goal is the SB you could argue it has not worked since 2014. All mots of us are saying and a lot of experts is change one thing, stop wasting a half of football, stat using the uptempo/change tempo system from the beginning.

So I dig some digging into stats John so we can really see what this particular criticism looks like. Here are the splits for 2019 for the offense;

First Quarter:
Yards: 864
TD: 6

Second Quarter:
Yards: 1173
TD: 10

Third Quarter:
Yards: 735
TD: 7

Fourth Quarter:
Yards: 1171
TD: 7

So if you're keeping score at home that's 2,037 yards and 16 TD's in the first half of games this year, and 1,926 yards and 14 TD's in 2nd half of games.

There you have it, we not only have more yards in the first half, but more TD's. So while the fall behind too far narrative is certainly true for the Divisional round road games specifically................the narrative that we start too slow, and that's some sort of indictment on how Pete runs his offense is just not true. At least not anymore.

I await your non stats based knee jerk reaction based in feelings.

Something very wrong with those numbers!!

Total yards = 3943 and yet our total offense is 5990.

Wilson alone had 4110 passing!

I think not....

 

[bmorepunk]

Faster starts in the 1st half are a real issue that can't just be ignored. Folding your arms and saying "this is what we do" and not adjusting is going to cost them more games in the future. Just because the formula works MOST of the time (mainly with Russ saving the day and/or overcoming crap 1st half predictable play calling) doesn't mean that it's no big deal. The D was brutal most of the time this season, yet they still went 11-5 and won a playoff game.
They look out place and confused on defense all the time imo.

So basically the system works 90% of the time so why change it. Hmm I don't know maybe to see if we can go for 95% of the time., The other question are we succeeding because of this system or despite it.? Also as it relates to the system since the end goal is the SB you could argue it has not worked since 2014. All mots of us are saying and a lot of experts is change one thing, stop wasting a half of football, stat using the uptempo/change tempo system from the beginning.

So I dig some digging into stats John so we can really see what this particular criticism looks like. Here are the splits for 2019 for the offense;

First Quarter:
Yards: 864
TD: 6

Second Quarter:
Yards: 1173
TD: 10

Third Quarter:
Yards: 735
TD: 7

Fourth Quarter:
Yards: 1171
TD: 7

So if you're keeping score at home that's 2,037 yards and 16 TD's in the first half of games this year, and 1,926 yards and 14 TD's in 2nd half of games.

There you have it, we not only have more yards in the first half, but more TD's. So while the fall behind too far narrative is certainly true for the Divisional round road games specifically................the narrative that we start too slow, and that's some sort of indictment on how Pete runs his offense is just not true. At least not anymore.

I await your non stats based knee jerk reaction based in feelings.

They've actually gotten a lot better on this the last couple of years, and it really showed this year. Three and four years ago the short drives, particularly early in games, occurred a lot more. The difference was really getting the run game going last year.

It's easy to get into a trap on perception with when scoring is happening. If they don't score enough points soon enough in the game, it's considered a slow start. If they score early, then don't much later on it's "taking your foot off the gas". Unless you score a TD ore more every quarter, you will get criticized as doing one of the two things.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Faster starts in the 1st half are a real issue that can't just be ignored. Folding your arms and saying "this is what we do" and not adjusting is going to cost them more games in the future. Just because the formula works MOST of the time (mainly with Russ saving the day and/or overcoming crap 1st half predictable play calling) doesn't mean that it's no big deal. The D was brutal most of the time this season, yet they still went 11-5 and won a playoff game.
They look out place and confused on defense all the time imo.

So basically the system works 90% of the time so why change it. Hmm I don't know maybe to see if we can go for 95% of the time., The other question are we succeeding because of this system or despite it.? Also as it relates to the system since the end goal is the SB you could argue it has not worked since 2014. All mots of us are saying and a lot of experts is change one thing, stop wasting a half of football, stat using the uptempo/change tempo system from the beginning.

So I dig some digging into stats John so we can really see what this particular criticism looks like. Here are the splits for 2019 for the offense;

First Quarter:
Yards: 864
TD: 6

Second Quarter:
Yards: 1173
TD: 10

Third Quarter:
Yards: 735
TD: 7

Fourth Quarter:
Yards: 1171
TD: 7

So if you're keeping score at home that's 2,037 yards and 16 TD's in the first half of games this year, and 1,926 yards and 14 TD's in 2nd half of games.

There you have it, we not only have more yards in the first half, but more TD's. So while the fall behind too far narrative is certainly true for the Divisional round road games specifically................the narrative that we start too slow, and that's some sort of indictment on how Pete runs his offense is just not true. At least not anymore.

I await your non stats based knee jerk reaction based in feelings.

Something very wrong with those numbers!!

Total yards = 3943 and yet our total offense is 5990.

Wilson alone had 4110 passing!

I think not....

Offensive passing splits, cause I assume if the criticism is based on Russell and Pete, then that's what should look at.

But you can look at the the entire offense

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... qtr_splits

 

[Seymour]

OK but you posted 2019 offense not just passing offense and I could clearly see that was wrong.

I'm not getting into the debate because the title goes too far with the issue I see. I see him being held back with oline run blocking focus and poor pass protection his entire career, generally poor WR support and depth, poor, outdated and predictable offensive scheme that often ignores our greatest strength...Russ.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

OK but you posted 2019 offense not just passing offense and I could clearly see that was wrong.

I'm not getting into the debate because the title goes too far with the issue I see. I see him being held back with oline run blocking focus and poor pass protection his entire career, generally poor WR support and depth, poor, outdated and predictable offensive scheme that often ignores our greatest strength...Russ.

Fair enough, and I'd agree with the too predictable criticism all day long.

But the truth is production and stats wise, very little difference between the first and second halves of games.

But like I've said, I'm still confused with fans concentrating on this and other offensive criticisms, and not the defensive side of the ball ,where I REALLY think Pete and John have failed.

We have a top 5 offense, top 3 passing offense. Why is 90% of the focus and criticism on that and not how bad our defense was and how Pete and John are struggling to rebuild it into a top 10 defense.

 

[Largent80]

Hey, The D-Line is destroying Tre Flowers career.

 

[Seymour]

OK but you posted 2019 offense not just passing offense and I could clearly see that was wrong.

I'm not getting into the debate because the title goes too far with the issue I see. I see him being held back with oline run blocking focus and poor pass protection his entire career, generally poor WR support and depth, poor, outdated and predictable offensive scheme that often ignores our greatest strength...Russ.

Fair enough, and I'd agree with the too predictable criticism all day long.

But the truth is production and stats wise, very little difference between the first and second halves of games.

But like I've said, I'm still confused with fans concentrating on this and other offensive criticisms, and not the defensive side of the ball ,where I REALLY think Pete and John have failed.

We have a top 5 offense, top 3 passing offense. Why is 90% of the focus and criticism on that and not how bad our defense was and how Pete and John are struggling to rebuild it into a top 10 defense.

That surprises me some but I can see how that is possible. It's not an every week problem, and people tend to remember the most glaring fails more than success.

Look at the playoff division stats on this and scoring. That truly is the time it matters most and it is absurd the scoring difference.

(5 road divisional playoff games) 112-13 or point differential of -99 in five halves of football.

 

[GeekHawk]

Hey, The D-Line is destroying Tre Flowers career.

Yeah, that's it!

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Look at the playoff division stats on this and scoring. That truly is the time it matters most and it is absurd the scoring difference.

(5 road divisional playoff games) 112-13 or point differential of -99 in five halves of football.

And I said this in my original post above, Divisional discrepancy is not up for debate. Putrid.

I would like to see the stats on how every road team has fared in the Divisional round of the playoffs. I'm sure it's not pretty as a whole.

It's why getting that #1 seed was so important. All that talk of road warriors is nonsense, stats don't lie. Very hard to go on the road for three games and get to a SB. Just is, you're banged up, tired, going against a well rested team at home. Twice.

Especially with a defense as bad as ours was.

 

[pittpnthrs]

But like I've said, I'm still confused with fans concentrating on this and other offensive criticisms, and not the defensive side of the ball ,where I REALLY think Pete and John have failed.

We have a top 5 offense, top 3 passing offense. Why is 90% of the focus and criticism on that and not how bad our defense was and how Pete and John are struggling to rebuild it into a top 10 defense.

I think the issue is that everybody realizes that the defense stinks and is in need of serious help, so with that being a given, attention is being paid to the one area that gives us any hope of winning and thats the offense. The frustration appears when we see that a victory was in reach with how the offense changed and was moving the ball and scoring at a fair rate in the second half of the game, but was totally wasted and stagnant in the first. Instead of filling us up with hope, the loss would have been much easier to swallow if we would have gotten blown out. The fact that a successful equation was found in the second half for a possible victory (despite the awful defense) but it took so long to implement is horribly frustrating. The fact that its such a reoccurring theme makes it even more so. The fact that we have a coach that refuses to change,,,,,,,well, now you can understand where some of us are coming from now.

 

[Natethegreat]

Yes, since the defense was putrid lets rave about how the offense isn't being run right to make up for it. Makes sense. Ken Norton Jr. should be fired. If he is not I am going to be pretty annoyed. He has run 2 defenses into the ground while heading the ship. It has not been for lack of talent either. HE ISNT GOOD AT HIS CURRENT JOB!

 

[SirTed]

Yes, since the defense was putrid lets rave about how the offense isn't being run right to make up for it. Makes sense. Ken Norton Jr. should be fired. If he is not I am going to be pretty annoyed. He has run 2 defenses into the ground while heading the ship. It has not been for lack of talent either. HE ISNT GOOD AT HIS CURRENT JOB!

I say this, not as a Norton defender (I'd be fine with letting him go, honestly) but I'm not really sure if there's a coach out there that could have gotten more from this group, as far as scheme goes. Just my opinion. I can't really speak to Norton's ability to develop players, how much that falls into a DC's job.

IMO, the thing to be alarmed about, when it comes to the defense is,

1. Where was Collier? getting a flat out ZERO from him this season is absolutely unacceptable. The fact that he couldn't dress for numerous games is alarming.
2. What about Reed? Obviously, being suspended put him behind the eight ball, but I was surprised by his lack of production at the end of the season. Clowney is getting doubled, and occasionally TRIPPED, and we can't get interior pressure?
3. What the hell did they see in Ansuh? I mean this as far as the signing. My gosh that dude is washed. Not that I would know better necessarily from a workout, but I would expect them to.
4. Their handling of the nickle back throughout the year, all the way back to training camp, was terrible. I do think that (unfortunately) the Hawks staying in base for much of the season was a sound(ish) strategy, but that says a lot more about our mismanagement of the draft and the roster than it does scheme. Three of our top (7?) best defensive players were LB's, arguably the least important defensive position in modern football.


I'm not arguing that Norton shouldn't be fired, but I think too often, fans look at strictly results, and then blame the coordinator / scheme, when player production, and roster could have just as much to do with it. When the talent isn't there, often there aren't schemes that can miraculously produce results.

 

[Largent80]

Drivin the Russ Bus for 8 years.

 

[Natethegreat]

Yes, since the defense was putrid lets rave about how the offense isn't being run right to make up for it. Makes sense. Ken Norton Jr. should be fired. If he is not I am going to be pretty annoyed. He has run 2 defenses into the ground while heading the ship. It has not been for lack of talent either. HE ISNT GOOD AT HIS CURRENT JOB!

I say this, not as a Norton defender (I'd be fine with letting him go, honestly) but I'm not really sure if there's a coach out there that could have gotten more from this group, as far as scheme goes. Just my opinion. I can't really speak to Norton's ability to develop players, how much that falls into a DC's job.

IMO, the thing to be alarmed about, when it comes to the defense is,

1. Where was Collier? getting a flat out ZERO from him this season is absolutely unacceptable. The fact that he couldn't dress for numerous games is alarming.
2. What about Reed? Obviously, being suspended put him behind the eight ball, but I was surprised by his lack of production at the end of the season. Clowney is getting doubled, and occasionally TRIPPED, and we can't get interior pressure?
3. What the hell did they see in Ansuh? I mean this as far as the signing. My gosh that dude is washed. Not that I would know better necessarily from a workout, but I would expect them to.
4. Their handling of the nickle back throughout the year, all the way back to training camp, was terrible. I do think that (unfortunately) the Hawks staying in base for much of the season was a sound(ish) strategy, but that says a lot more about our mismanagement of the draft and the roster than it does scheme. Three of our top (7?) best defensive players were LB's, arguably the least important defensive position in modern football.


I'm not arguing that Norton shouldn't be fired, but I think too often, fans look at strictly results, and then blame the coordinator / scheme, when player production, and roster could have just as much to do with it. When the talent isn't there, often there aren't schemes that can miraculously produce results.

Almost every problem you pointed out is KNJ job.

Edit: KNJ inability to create pressure on QB's is probably my biggest issue with him. He had the fewest sacks in the league (25) in 2016 with Khalil Mack and Bruce Irvin. Its not a talent issue here.

 

[Largent80]

There is no "blame"...It's a football team going thru an entire season. BTW. But if there is blame I blame Pete and John for getting us into the divisional round. How DARE THEY HAVE SUCCESS?

 

[SirTed]

Yes, since the defense was putrid lets rave about how the offense isn't being run right to make up for it. Makes sense. Ken Norton Jr. should be fired. If he is not I am going to be pretty annoyed. He has run 2 defenses into the ground while heading the ship. It has not been for lack of talent either. HE ISNT GOOD AT HIS CURRENT JOB!

I say this, not as a Norton defender (I'd be fine with letting him go, honestly) but I'm not really sure if there's a coach out there that could have gotten more from this group, as far as scheme goes. Just my opinion. I can't really speak to Norton's ability to develop players, how much that falls into a DC's job.

IMO, the thing to be alarmed about, when it comes to the defense is,

1. Where was Collier? getting a flat out ZERO from him this season is absolutely unacceptable. The fact that he couldn't dress for numerous games is alarming.
2. What about Reed? Obviously, being suspended put him behind the eight ball, but I was surprised by his lack of production at the end of the season. Clowney is getting doubled, and occasionally TRIPPED, and we can't get interior pressure?
3. What the hell did they see in Ansuh? I mean this as far as the signing. My gosh that dude is washed. Not that I would know better necessarily from a workout, but I would expect them to.
4. Their handling of the nickle back throughout the year, all the way back to training camp, was terrible. I do think that (unfortunately) the Hawks staying in base for much of the season was a sound(ish) strategy, but that says a lot more about our mismanagement of the draft and the roster than it does scheme. Three of our top (7?) best defensive players were LB's, arguably the least important defensive position in modern football.


I'm not arguing that Norton shouldn't be fired, but I think too often, fans look at strictly results, and then blame the coordinator / scheme, when player production, and roster could have just as much to do with it. When the talent isn't there, often there aren't schemes that can miraculously produce results.

Almost every problem you pointed out is KNJ job.

I mean this earnestly, not disrespectfully - do you know that factually, or are you just throwing it under the umbrella of "he's in charge of the defense?"

1. Who's job is it to coach up a defensive lineman, and get him in position to play on Sundays?
2. If Reed isn't producing, how much of that is on his late start, how much of that is the DL coaches job?
3. What role did he play in the signing of Ansuh?
4. Who's decision was it to Cut Taylor, bring him back, cut him again, and not roll out Amadi until late in the year, in what seemed like a reactionary decision more than a planned one?

I understand completely that ultimately it all falls to the DC - but do we know who brings in the position coaches? Do we know what responsibility falls to them? to Quality Control coaches? I don't - and if you can break that down for me, I'd be happy to learn. But I do know - Fans all too often look for a quick fix by hiring and firing coordinators, in the hopes that it fixes everything, and I don't think it does. DC's and OC's are plenty responsible for mistakes. Poor situational play calling, etc. Not saying that there isn't criticism to be found there, I just don't personally think that's their biggest problem - and until some of those other issues get fixed, it's hard to really diagnose just how good or likely bad, KNJR is at his job.

 

[chris98251]

Yes, since the defense was putrid lets rave about how the offense isn't being run right to make up for it. Makes sense. Ken Norton Jr. should be fired. If he is not I am going to be pretty annoyed. He has run 2 defenses into the ground while heading the ship. It has not been for lack of talent either. HE ISNT GOOD AT HIS CURRENT JOB!

I say this, not as a Norton defender (I'd be fine with letting him go, honestly) but I'm not really sure if there's a coach out there that could have gotten more from this group, as far as scheme goes. Just my opinion. I can't really speak to Norton's ability to develop players, how much that falls into a DC's job.

IMO, the thing to be alarmed about, when it comes to the defense is,

1. Where was Collier? getting a flat out ZERO from him this season is absolutely unacceptable. The fact that he couldn't dress for numerous games is alarming.
2. What about Reed? Obviously, being suspended put him behind the eight ball, but I was surprised by his lack of production at the end of the season. Clowney is getting doubled, and occasionally TRIPPED, and we can't get interior pressure?
3. What the hell did they see in Ansuh? I mean this as far as the signing. My gosh that dude is washed. Not that I would know better necessarily from a workout, but I would expect them to.
4. Their handling of the nickle back throughout the year, all the way back to training camp, was terrible. I do think that (unfortunately) the Hawks staying in base for much of the season was a sound(ish) strategy, but that says a lot more about our mismanagement of the draft and the roster than it does scheme. Three of our top (7?) best defensive players were LB's, arguably the least important defensive position in modern football.


I'm not arguing that Norton shouldn't be fired, but I think too often, fans look at strictly results, and then blame the coordinator / scheme, when player production, and roster could have just as much to do with it. When the talent isn't there, often there aren't schemes that can miraculously produce results.

Almost every problem you pointed out is KNJ job.

I mean this earnestly, not disrespectfully - do you know that factually, or are you just throwing it under the umbrella of "he's in charge of the defense?"

1. Who's job is it to coach up a defensive lineman, and get him in position to play on Sundays?
2. If Reed isn't producing, how much of that is on his late start, how much of that is the DL coaches job?
3. What role did he play in the signing of Ansuh?
4. Who's decision was it to Cut Taylor, bring him back, cut him again, and not roll out Amadi until late in the year, in what seemed like a reactionary decision more than a planned one?

I understand completely that ultimately it all falls to the DC - but do we know who brings in the position coaches? Do we know what responsibility falls to them? to Quality Control coaches? I don't - and if you can break that down for me, I'd be happy to learn. But I do know - Fans all too often look for a quick fix by hiring and firing coordinators, in the hopes that it fixes everything, and I don't think it does. DC's and OC's are plenty responsible for mistakes. Poor situational play calling, etc. Not saying that there isn't criticism to be found there, I just don't personally think that's their biggest problem - and until some of those other issues get fixed, it's hard to really diagnose just how good or likely bad, KNJR is at his job.

Clint Hurtt

 

[KiwiHawk]

I think the very fact that we are discussing the point differential in our 5 road divisional playoff games is testament to how successful the we've been, regardless of what that differential is.

In 10 seasons, we have been to the divisional playoffs 7 times. We've only lost one Wild Card game in that time, and in the other two seasons we didn't make the playoffs.

By the way, in each of our 5 road divisional playoff games, the opponent had a bye week preceding the game. This means that in each case they were a #1 or #2 seed with an extra week to prepare, rest, and get healthy, while we had an extra week to get beaten up.

Just goes to show how important it is to get the bye. So what happens when WE have the bye? The first time, we beat the Saints, going 16-0 in the first half leading to a 23-15 victory. The second time, beat the Panthers 31-17 where the halftime score was 14-10. Both comfortable wins where we led at halftime.

So we only have these epically slow divisional playoff starts against #1 or #2 seeds who have had extra time to prepare, and when it's our turn, half the time we do the same to our opponent. Often when stats are put into context the overall picture gains clarity.

 

[Largent80]

 

[DomeHawk]

Change/Adapt and do what, exactly?

You're not gonna get an answer of any substance.

It has been said many times what change and adapt means. We all see it every 2nd half of a game were we fall behind. So let stop acting like it has bnpt been made clear.

It hasn't. Not one person has come out and given detailed answers on what specific plays and out of what formations those plays should be run and against what defensive looks we should be running those plays. You can't just say be more aggressive or less conservative. You can't just say stop holding Russell back or let Russell loose. If you're gonna say those things bring some "FOOTBALL" detail along with them or stop pretending to know what you're talking about. There isn't anyone on this forum that doesn't want them to score more points in the 1st half of games. Unless you can have that level of knowledge, STFU about it already.

What an idiotic post, we aren't coaches, there are many different plays, we are fanS BUT that doesn't mean we can't see the forest for the trees. And, quit talking "FOOTBALL" you probably were a scrub on your peewee team the way you talk.

It's obvious what's going on with the Seahawks. WE ARE FAR TOO PREDICTABLE AND WE STUBBORNLY RUN PLAYS THAT AREN'T WORKING!

There, is that simple enough for you?