Pete caused the Adams fiasco from the start

[RiverDog]

I've always thought it was Pete.

I did, too. But there were others that thought it was Schneider's brainchild. This article supports what you and I have assumed for some time. It's relevant.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I did, too. But there were others that thought it was Schneider's brainchild. This article supports what you and I have assumed for some time. It's relevant.

You mean, you want your dues.

 

[Maelstrom787]

You're telling me that John Schneider wanted to trade 2 firsts and more for a 2-time All-Pro safety so he could convert him into a 210lb. linebacker?

He couldn't even hold up at safety, and you're telling me that in hindsight it would've been better to play Jamal as a full-time LB?

That's the most fanciful load of shite I've ever heard in my life, and if true, thank god Pete Carroll was around to put the kibosh on that Madden-tier degeneracy.

 

[RiverDog]

I see revisionist history going on here as people look to confirm their own biases. Huard said nothing today about the initial trade, he was purely speculating that there could be a place for Jamal as a weak-side LB if he was healthy now.

The Jets version of healthy Jamal Adams was an all-pro strong safety who played all over the place and brought intensity that we felt we badly needed but hadn't had since Kam retired. Jamal's problem here was not in how he was used, and had everything to do with him constantly being injured to the point where he could no longer play. Go back to before Jamal first got hurt when he set the NFL sack record and show me one example of anybody claiming he was being mis-used.

It was a dumb trade because we under valued our draft capital and gave up too much for a safety (or a LB). It turned out to be a terrible trade because Jamal couldn't stay healthy.

No revisionism here. The year Adams was brought in, the 2020 season when he recorded a league record for QB sacks, and yes, we were all mesmerized. In retrospect, a lot of his success can be attributed to a historically inept front 7.

But in 2021, the balloon popped. Even though he was healthy for most of the season, he didn't record a single sack. Offenses started to account for him, moving a tight end or running back to his side any time he threatened to blitz. Plus, his pass coverage deficiencies became apparent. He was frequently out of position. He took bad angles chasing down running backs. He was having interceptions bounce off his face mask. Adams played in 12 games that season, and we finished ranked 32nd in pass defense. We were not a better defense with him.

So no, there were more problems with Adams than just his injuries.

 

[RiverDog]

You mean, you want your dues.

No, I don't. I want to know who was responsible. If JS had a lot to do with that trade and resigning, he's not getting cut any slack from me. If he didn't, then I'm more likely to give him a break.

 

[jammerhawk]

As ever there is a pathological need to blame for the acquisition of any player that doesn't pan out. JS agreed with the trade and with the player being re-signed to a contract that the player underperformed upon. The player was released this spring and the team has had to eat a dead cap hit as a result. The player did get voted to the Pro Bowl during his first year here. After that he was hurt all the time and tried to come back way too early. Adams has to be regarded as a very expensive mistaken acquisition.

The team significantly overpaid for a player who had initial promise here then flamed out. Sadly for Adams he kept on getting injured and certainly lost a step in a position where speed is needed. Anyone who thought he was ballhawk didn't understand the player's strengths. He's more of a hybrid linebacker/SS who is better playing going forward rather than in coverage.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Here's why I lean towards this trade and the aggressive moves being more a Pete thing. I am basing it on the way Pete has always been more "in the moment / win now" vs long term. Part of what I am basing this on is including the way he coaches in game. I will go as far as to use the word reckless when you think of how he burns challenges and timeouts early.
As for Adams, well based on his body of work as a Hawk, I would say whoever wanted him close to the line of scrimmage vs in coverage was probably right

John seems more of the long term guy...I see him as the big trade back guy in the draft. Even this year on that inside the war-room article that game out where even with Murphy available they considered trading back for the right haul. Personally I am glad that right haul never happened cause we needed what Murphy potentially brings now.

Edit. BTW, how credible is Tim Weaver?

 

[JayhawkMike]

As ever there is a pathological need to blame for the acquisition of any player that doesn't pan out. JS agreed with the trade and with the player being re-signed to a contract that the player underperformed upon. The player was released this spring and the team has had to eat a dead cap hit as a result. The player did get voted to the Pro Bowl during his first year here. After that he was hurt all the time and tried to come back way too early. Adams has to be regarded as a very expensive mistaken acquisition.

The team significantly overpaid for a player who had initial promise here then flamed out. Sadly for Adams he kept on getting injured and certainly lost a step in a position where speed is needed. Anyone who thought he was ballhawk didn't understand the player's strengths. He's more of a hybrid linebacker/SS who is better playing going forward rather than in coverage.

As ever there is a pathological need by some to never have anyone accept responsibility and to offer every excuse to absolve everyone from blame. Everyone gets trophies! No one comes in last! Every GM and Coach is as good as any others and as a fan you are far more stupid about everything football related than them so just don't have an opinion and shut up and trust management. Sigh.

(more a general rant then directed specifically at a poster though there are a few . . .)

 

[cymatica]

 

[Maelstrom787]

As ever there is a pathological need by some to never have anyone accept responsibility and to offer every excuse to absolve everyone from blame. Everyone gets trophies! No one comes in last! Every GM and Coach is as good as any others and as a fan you are far more stupid about everything football related than them so just don't have an opinion and shut up and trust management. Sigh.

(more a general rant then directed specifically at a poster though there are a few . . .)

It's not about trust. It's just about the acknowledgment that we have a prohibitively narrow band of information which which we cannot truly say with full confidence that we're right and they're wrong, as well as the acknowledgment that most of our grumbles are based on hindsight.

Doesn't mean you can't disagree. I've disagreed with them a bunch this offseason. Opinions are opinions. They only get dicey when people start stating them as fact.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I don't think some of you are fully thinking this through.

Playing Jamal Adams at linebacker would've been a certifiably bad decision. He can't even hold up at safety.

In hindsight, playing him at linebacker makes even LESS sense than the trade itself made. We traded for a 2 time All-Pro safety in an attempt to make a final run with Russell. Playing him as a severely undersized linebacker would've meant benching Jordyn Brooks for him on many downs, and that would've been a terrible move for both our run defense and our defense as a whole, considering he'd get planted into the turf and be out for the year by week 4.

It makes no sense. This is conjecture and if John seriously wanted that, then he should've gotten canned because that is dumb. That is dumb as hell. No one trades over 2 first rounders for a conversion project who'd be 30 pounds under-weight for their position. No one.

They obviously don't mean that, though. They mean he'd be fulfilling the role of a weakside linebacker by rotating into the box a la Kam Chancellor. Nothing whatsoever indicated anyone had any interest in making Jamal a literal linebacker.

 

[seabowl]

Whoever made the decision to trade two first round picks PRIOR to having a long-term contract in place is the biggest one to blame for this disaster of a trade. I negotiate for a living and know that you lose all leverage because the player and their agent are aware that you need to do whatever you can and pay whatever it takes to re-sign them or else you’ll look like a fool for making the trade if the player leaves in free agency. Absolutely, 100% a downright dumb and not well thought out transaction.

 

[Jac]

Whoever made the decision to trade two first round picks PRIOR to having a long-term contract in place is the biggest one to blame for this disaster of a trade. I negotiate for a living and know that you lose all leverage because the player and their agent are aware that you need to do whatever you can and pay whatever it takes to re-sign them or else you’ll look like a fool for making the trade if the player leaves in free agency. Absolutely, 100% a downright dumb and not well thought out transaction.

This is what I was going to say. The biggest problem was the trade compensation itself. They had to pay him a fortune because they invested two first rounders. He had all the leverage. But if they did all that AND there was disagreement on how to use him, that makes the story even worse. Of course, then they go into the 2021 draft with three draft picks and get D'Wayne Eskridge, Tre Brown, and Stone Forsythe. It was all just a giant red flag that the current front office dynamic was broken, and they completely lost their way on roster construction.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I see revisionist history going on here as people look to confirm their own biases. Huard said nothing today about the initial trade, he was purely speculating that there could be a place for Jamal as a weak-side LB if he was healthy now.

The Jets version of healthy Jamal Adams was an all-pro strong safety who played all over the place and brought intensity that we felt we badly needed but hadn't had since Kam retired. Jamal's problem here was not in how he was used, and had everything to do with him constantly being injured to the point where he could no longer play. Go back to before Jamal first got hurt when he set the NFL sack record and show me one example of anybody claiming he was being mis-used.

It was a dumb trade because we under valued our draft capital and gave up too much for a safety (or a LB). It turned out to be a terrible trade because Jamal couldn't stay healthy.

The problem was that he could have stayed healthy and they still gave to much for him. Everybody brings up the sacks, but seem to forget that the defense was being torched when they happened. It was an absolute travesty to depend on a safety for the pass rush, leaving the secondary short handed. They were giving up passing yards at a historical rate. The defense didn't settle in until Dunlap (a true pass rusher) was signed mid season.

The Adams trade can't be defended. It was wrong on every level.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Part of what I am basing this on is including the way he coaches in game. I will go as far as to use the word reckless when you think of how he burns challenges and timeouts early.

You can call it reckless, i'll call it something else.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

 

[seabowl]

This is what I was going to say. The biggest problem was the trade compensation itself. They had to pay him a fortune because they invested two first rounders. He had all the leverage. But if they did all that AND there was disagreement on how to use him, that makes the story even worse. Of course, then they go into the 2021 draft with three draft picks and get D'Wayne Eskridge, Tre Brown, and Stone Forsythe. It was all just a giant red flag that the current front office dynamic was broken, and they completely lost their way on roster construction.

Trading high draft picks for a soon to be free agent player almost never works out. What made this even worse was Adams and the Jets were not getting along and he pretty much was forcing his way out and it was public. Usually the team trading for for a player in this predicament has leverage, but we obviously did not use that at all giving two first round picks for him. It was seriously an amateur move all around.

 

[JayhawkMike]

View attachment 66226

There it is ROFL

Bad trade:
Bad Trade/Pick happens: Shhhhhh, Too early to judge
Bad Year 1: Too early to judge so don’t
Bad Year 2: This will be the year … but wasn’t so don’t judge
Player finally cut: Just move on and don’t discuss. Quit living in the past.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It was a crap trade, we all know it. Dwell if you want, I'm glad he's gone. No need to get all sensitive about it, Jay. Can't change what happened.
I couldn't care less how much people talk about it. It's just funny, TO ME. It was a disaster of a trade. It's over and done with. They took a big L on that one.
They've also done a lot of very good things as a front office.
New team.

 

[Ozzy]

I think Pete pushed for this trade because of his always win now mode which isn't meant as an insult and this misused him. Greg Williams laughed when talking about the trade and basically said he wouldn't be used right in Seattle and Seahawks fans got pissed but he was right. The league is super connected to everyone so they have a really good idea on how people coach and their tendencies etc. If scouts, John and the rest of the building saw it one way, Pete was on an island and did it his way the results sort of speak for themsleves fair or unfair.

I don't get too hung up on the LB thing, There are other guys around the league that play in a hybrid role or around the line of scrimmage, I don't think scouts and John saw him as a KJ replacement or anything. Kam played around the line of scrimmage and a lot of safeties do regardless of what their title is.

I've always thought Pete pushed for this and screwed this whole thing up and this validates it for me. Before the defenders start throwing spears, this doesn't mean Pete didn't do a lot of great things too. This one just has Pete written all over it.