Pete’s not going anywhere

[mrblitz]

instead of saying, 'it's not how you start, but how you finish', maybe they should say, 'let's win every quarter'.

 

[12AngryHawks]

Your a hard man to argue with 12 and i can appreciate that. Don't forget that the in year 2 with Shotty and Norton and the offesne statically has been just one of the best in franchise history and while the defense has sucked let's not forget they lost a bunch of studs all at once, which is tough to bounce from.

Yeah, I realize that. I don't say all that to make you think you're wrong or that I'm right, we all have our opinions, and I respect yours as well. This season has just been a roller coaster. I agree on the offense, it was firing on all cylinders, then it took a nosedive, and the injuries were just salt on the wound.

 

[12AngryHawks]

If they're that much better, how did they let their teams get into a hole in the first place? Seattle hasn't been in a "hole" yet.

Well, I would say, in Harbaugh's case, he didn't have Russell Wilson under center, and as for Payton, he didn't have either enough talent, or the right staff, I remember their D was pretty horrid those 3 years.

They obviously are still great coaches, if they weren't, their teams would still be mediocre. As for this team, I wouldn't say they've never been in a hole, their hole just wasn't as deep, and I think Wilson mitigated that. 2017 was the deepest their hole went, but they had those few seasons since SB49, where the players themselves got the shovels out, and started sabotaging the team.

Not saying Pete is a bad coach, if he was, Seattle wouldn't be the team that they've been for the past decade, all I was saying, was that Payton & Harbaugh were better at certain aspects of being a HC than Carroll. I think my point just got lost in the shuffle.

 

[John63]

For me it comes down to this. PC needs to stop playing like he has the 2012-2014 team, on both sides of the ball. He does not. He needs to play like he did when Lynch went down and the defense was struggling.

We saw yesterday and all year what works. A tempo changing, motion offense with a combo man/zone run blitzing defense.

Good coaches adapt to the talent they have.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I think he needs a new OC and an assistant that can help with game management

What good is that going to do if he wont let them do their job? Team went that route already by getting rid of Bevell and all Pete did was hire another 'yes man' in Shotty with the same stagnant offense in place. Its a Pete issue, not the coordinators.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Remember the Mora era?

We've got it pretty good.

Does one season as head coach really make for an era?

 

[JGreen79]

This is an 11-5 team that missed 12-4 and a division championship by 2 millimeters..

People can certainly complain about the inefficiencies in game planning and clock management. Its hyperbolic to make this team out like they just went 6-10.

The system works because its been the most effective and consistent way to win football games for decades. Noone has proved that differently.. and the Patriots are not much different.

hmm well since 2014 we are 2-3 in the playoffs, what good is s system that wins in the regular season but can't in the post season.

Out of the 16 teams to make the playoffs this year... Two have been to a Super Bowl since 2014, four of them have a winning record in the playoffs, four of them have made the playoffs three times or more.

Here is another what if 1 year you loose the first game, next year you loose the 2nd, then the 3rd. Its called improving.

Another point to go with your 'What if' scenario.
2017 Sea missed the playoffs
2018 Sea lost in round one
So by your logic... If they beat the Eagles, Pete is a good coach and his system works because they are improving.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Look I love me some Pete. But his time management stuff is beyond maddening. Him calling those last 2 timeouts.....so stupid. Not being prepared at the end of the game with the plays etc. AGAIN.
Sure they lost it as a team and Russ didn't finish like he usually does. But, Pete wasting timeouts over and over again needs to flat out stop. That delay is inexcusable. Even more than the non PI call.

 

[Spin Doctor]

If they're that much better, how did they let their teams get into a hole in the first place? Seattle hasn't been in a "hole" yet.

Well, I would say, in Harbaugh's case, he didn't have Russell Wilson under center, and as for Payton, he didn't have either enough talent, or the right staff, I remember their D was pretty horrid those 3 years.

They obviously are still great coaches, if they weren't, their teams would still be mediocre. As for this team, I wouldn't say they've never been in a hole, their hole just wasn't as deep, and I think Wilson mitigated that. 2017 was the deepest their hole went, but they had those few seasons since SB49, where the players themselves got the shovels out, and started sabotaging the team.

Not saying Pete is a bad coach, if he was, Seattle wouldn't be the team that they've been for the past decade, all I was saying, was that Payton & Harbaugh were better at certain aspects of being a HC than Carroll. I think my point just got lost in the shuffle.

Talent acquisition is a big one for Carroll. Since he is both the HC and final say on player acquisition he can get guys that are tailored to fit his system. Most HC's have to finagle whatever the GM gives them. Holmgren for example of this with Ruskell. Carroll is good at finding value from free agents as depth, and while drafting hasn't been nearly as good he still has found good role players. HC's such as Payton and Harbaugh don't get as big of a say. In Payton's case they've had to deal with some very bad defenses, like historically bad in some cases due to lack of talent.

The QB is also a big one. Wilson has been one of the most durable QB's in the NFL. He hasn't missed a single game yet. Wilson is also a top tier QB with a knack for closing out big games. There are some good QB's that wouldn't be able to seal the deal. For example this would be a losing team with Kirk Cousins, maybe a six win team due to the situations Pete puts the team in -- even in some of the years that we had a decent team.

As for a game day and scheme coach I don't think he isn't very good. It's mostly the stuff that he does behind the scenes that make this a winning team, along with Wilson. That is also why I don't believe he will ever be in a Super Bowl ever again. He surrounds himself with yes men and has some of the most horrific in time/game management I've seen from an NFL level HC. If Carroll took a step back and became just the big picture guy, let Schottenheimer and a new DC do their work, and took a more hands off approach I think the Seahawks would have more success. Something like what Tomlin does in Pittsburgh.

Carroll is a great team manager and big picture guy but his idea of how some things should be done are like a boat anchor on the team in some ways.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Can someone tell what a good coach is? Outside of BB who is a good coach and why?

John Harbaugh & Sean Payton, I think are good examples of good head coaches.....

And each have the same number of Super Bowl wins as Pete. Payton has one of the all-time greatest QBs ever and runs the exact kind of system John63 and others here want to see the Seahawks run yet he's made fewer playoff appearances in the last 10 years than Pete has. I will agree Harbaugh was hamstrung by Flacco but results still speak for themselves. Those are facts folks. Look 'em up.

 

[KiwiHawk]

This is an 11-5 team that missed 12-4 and a division championship by 2 millimeters..

Holy crap don't use metric - if people can't figure out why Pete should stay, the metric system is well beyond their reach.

 

[chris98251]

Pete reminds me a lot of Knox, almost everything he does mirrors him, the one difference is he at least trusts Wilson to throw the ball Safely, Knox wanted to pound till there was no choice or no Running Backs.

Knox hated to trust a QB to win for him, Pete will trust Wilson when the teams back is against the wall but not early to win as some say in the first quarter.

Knox didn't adjust the teams play for the playoffs much and adapt to counter a team strengths, Pete doesn't do that well either, as we all know his defense was so dominant it was able to match up with just about any scheme, we don't have that type of defense today.

Trusting Wilson and when you find something that works use it till they can stop it is the key I think, how many times do we see a series where we do something in the first quarter or half and it works and we score but never go back to it again.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Can someone tell what a good coach is? Outside of BB who is a good coach and why?

John Harbaugh & Sean Payton, I think are good examples of good head coaches.....

And each have the same number of Super Bowl wins as Pete. Payton has one of the all-time greatest QBs ever and runs the exact kind of system John63 and others here want to see the Seahawks run yet he's made fewer playoff appearances in the last 10 years than Pete has. I will agree Harbaugh was hamstrung by Flacco but results still speak for themselves. Those are facts folks. Look 'em up.

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[12AngryHawks]

Can someone tell what a good coach is? Outside of BB who is a good coach and why?

John Harbaugh & Sean Payton, I think are good examples of good head coaches.....

And each have the same number of Super Bowl wins as Pete. Payton has one of the all-time greatest QBs ever and runs the exact kind of system John63 and others here want to see the Seahawks run yet he's made fewer playoff appearances in the last 10 years than Pete has. I will agree Harbaugh was hamstrung by Flacco but results still speak for themselves. Those are facts folks. Look 'em up.

[youtube]K8E_zMLCRNg[/youtube]

I'm sorry, was I supposed to say more than I've already said? All I said was Harbaugh & Payton were good coaches. Can you argue with that? People seem to think I'm singing their praises while pleading for PC to be fired. Read my words again if you're confused. There's no need to get so defensive just because I shared an opinion.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

John Harbaugh & Sean Payton, I think are good examples of good head coaches.....

And each have the same number of Super Bowl wins as Pete. Payton has one of the all-time greatest QBs ever and runs the exact kind of system John63 and others here want to see the Seahawks run yet he's made fewer playoff appearances in the last 10 years than Pete has. I will agree Harbaugh was hamstrung by Flacco but results still speak for themselves. Those are facts folks. Look 'em up.

[youtube]K8E_zMLCRNg[/youtube]

I'm sorry, was I supposed to say more than I've already said? All I said was Harbaugh & Payton were good coaches. Can you argue with that? People seem to think I'm singing their praises while pleading for PC to be fired. Read my words again if you're confused. There's no need to get so defensive just because I shared an opinion.

Really wasn't directed your way, more in general because those are 2 of the better HCs in the NFL and Pete stacks up very well against them and everyone else not names Belichick.

 

[12AngryHawks]

Really wasn't directed your way, more in general because those are 2 of the better HCs in the NFL and Pete stacks up very well against them and everyone else not names Belichick.

I agree, that was basically my point, I wasn't saying they were overall better than PC, just in certain aspects. The wins speak for themselves, Pete's philosophy is a big reason why, but Pete falls short in those aspects I said Payton and Harbaugh excelled more in. What we see on the field is not the only part of being a head coach, and the other parts are a reason why we get frustrated with Pete so many times.

My apologies if I misdirected your post, I just felt like keeping the argument alive was unnecessary at this point.