.Net scoop is hitting the internet - opponents penalties

[Cartire]

Curtis is not impressed. I guess I see his point. While I obviously find this statistical anomaly rather curious, the conclusion can not be verified, and thus, this is just a bunch of numbers.

Call it a night boys.

Nope, just because Curtis Crabtree doesn't want to take bias against the Seahawks into account, doesn't mean it's not happening.
There's a booger in the bowl of rice, it's pretty damned hard to ignore.
There is a There...There.

I was being sarcastic. I think most got that, but my bad for not using the emoticon.

 

[scutterhawk]

Curtis is not impressed. I guess I see his point. While I obviously find this statistical anomaly rather curious, the conclusion can not be verified, and thus, this is just a bunch of numbers.

Call it a night boys.

Nope, just because Curtis Crabtree doesn't want to take bias against the Seahawks into account, doesn't mean it's not happening.
There's a booger in the bowl of rice, it's pretty damned hard to ignore.
There is a There...There.

I was being sarcastic. I think most got that, but my bad for not using the emoticon.

Oh I caught your jesting alright , I just don't like CC's lazy cop-out to the matter.

 

[scutterhawk]

Roger Goodell straight up saying, "Seattle being good does little good for the NFL. Put them back in their place."

And in spite of this all, they're still right in the thick of it.

Go Hawks.

Might be so, BUT, things could sour up pretty quick, because at any time Goodell and his Goons could decide to jerk the rug out from under the Seahawks, "To Put Them Back In Their Place"
Goodell is an asshole with NO SCRUPLES, look no further that his bungling and denial of the Ray Rice fiasco.

 

[irocdave]

Spike O'Neal's take on the penalty situation.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=86 ... =3&theater

Lol, almost forgot how old I am compared to some posters. The song that is being spoofed was really popular in the late 80's, you know, back when MTV used be about music videos. Georgia Satellites, keep yo hands to yo self.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2UBazrGNSs easy listening dumb southern rock. Man I miss those days...

 

[SalishHawkFan]

...and voila! A new champ.

This is the driving force. The $N$F$L$ would make no where near the amount of money to stuff in their coffers if there was a repeat champion as they stand to make off of a new champion each year... sales of all things Superbowl champion, ad revenue, etc. would drop off significantly. Especially when we're talking a team like the Seahawks... less emphasis to ensure a new champion if it was, say, Dallas repeating...

If you believe the games are rigged why do you watch?

SC

I believe you refuse to accept the game is rigged because you want to keep watching.

 

[StoneCold]

...and voila! A new champ.

This is the driving force. The $N$F$L$ would make no where near the amount of money to stuff in their coffers if there was a repeat champion as they stand to make off of a new champion each year... sales of all things Superbowl champion, ad revenue, etc. would drop off significantly. Especially when we're talking a team like the Seahawks... less emphasis to ensure a new champion if it was, say, Dallas repeating...

If you believe the games are rigged why do you watch?

SC

I believe you refuse to accept the game is rigged because you want to keep watching.

Just like the fat girl in the Big Lots commercial, you nailed it.

SC

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Kings/Lakers Western Conference Finals.

I rest my case.

Blazers/Lakers Western Conference Finals.

I rest my case.

Spike O'Neal's take on the penalty situation.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=86 ... =3&theater

Lol, almost forgot how old I am compared to some posters. The song that is being spoofed was really popular in the late 80's, you know, back when MTV used be about music videos. Georgia Satellites, keep yo hands to yo self.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2UBazrGNSs easy listening dumb southern rock. Man I miss those days...

I'm so old I saw Georgia Satellites open for Bob Seger at the (Seattle) Coliseum and I was already 30 year old. Fun song, very fun.

.......Goodell is an asshole with NO SCRUPLES, look no further that his bungling and denial of the Ray Rice fiasco.

Yes, yes he is.
.
.
.
IMO of course.

 

[Ruminator]

From reddit,

Classic example of a non-call. Look at the running back, ref is literally right there looking in that direction, Hawk players are pointing.... seriously wtf

"Nah man, no worries, all good."

So Arizona averages 6.364 penalties a game, against us, 3.

-112.1%

Man I love watching that clip. Our guys look like pissed-off dobermans itching to rip a giggling baby Elmo to shreds.

 

[trharder]

I would just like to say that I appreciate those of you that think we are getting screwed and should not be afraid to complain about it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The Seahawks organization needs to be classy about their complaints and I believe Pete has been. Us fans are under no such obligation. Especially when the numbers indicate a problem. Those of you that just can't get over your frustration with the lack of discipline and stupid penalties, WE HEAR YOU! We are pissed too, but your frustration does not preclude our theories about us getting screwed. Everybody who watches football hates flags. Too many of them ruin the flow of a game. They are probably necessary to keep the game somewhat within the rules, but they shouldn't affect the outcome and should be used sparingly. A ref knows when they call a costly penalty and they should then be at the ready to call a similar costly penalty to the other team if it's a clear violation. What we've seen lately is a different level of scrutiny for the Seahawks and the opponent.

And Curtis Crabtree, FU.

 

[RiverDog]

I've looked at this issue all week, and I've come to the conclusion that there is a bias, not on the penalties called on us but the penalties called on our opponents.

In game after game, a heavily penalized team will play us and finish the game with by far the least number of penalties they have had all season then the following game, resume their propensity to draw flags. The fact that we are a run orientated team explains some, but not nearly enough of this oddity. However, I am stopping short of endorsing the various conspiracy theories.

Here's what I believe is the answer: We are very heavily scrutinized, for a number of very good reasons. First of all, it is a well known fact that Pete Carroll coached teams commit a lot of penalties, so much so that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy with the refs. You go into a game expecting to see holding and that's what you will see. Secondly, we've been very successful recently, and there's been a lot of accusations flying around about how our DB's get away with murder, so much so that it inspired a league mandated special emphasis on certain fouls. IMO the refs concentrate so much on keeping an eye on us that they overlook what our opponents are doing. It's as if they've compartmentalized themselves into watching just the blue colored jerseys and mentally blocking out the opposite colored shirts. I do not believe that our opponents are subjected to the same degree of scrutiny as we are, to the contrary, when they play us, they are not as scrutinized as much as they normally are because the refs are so preoccupied with keeping an eye on us, kinda like being too close to the trees to see the forest.

I do not think that there is a conscious awareness of this bias. I think that the refs are so intensely focused on us that they don't see anything except for the most blatant fouls on our opponents.

 

[seahawkfreak]

I've looked at this issue all week, and I've come to the conclusion that there is a bias, not on the penalties called on us but the penalties called on our opponents.

In game after game, a heavily penalized team will play us and finish the game with by far the least number of penalties they have had all season then the following game, resume their propensity to draw flags. The fact that we are a run orientated team explains some, but not nearly enough of this oddity. However, I am stopping short of endorsing the various conspiracy theories.

Here's what I believe is the answer: We are very heavily scrutinized, for a number of very good reasons. First of all, it is a well known fact that Pete Carroll coached teams commit a lot of penalties, so much so that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy with the refs. You go into a game expecting to see holding and that's what you will see. Secondly, we've been very successful recently, and there's been a lot of accusations flying around about how our DB's get away with murder, so much so that it inspired a league mandated special emphasis on certain fouls. IMO the refs concentrate so much on keeping an eye on us that they overlook what our opponents are doing. It's as if they've compartmentalized themselves into watching just the blue colored jerseys and mentally blocking out the opposite colored shirts. I do not believe that our opponents are subjected to the same degree of scrutiny as we are, to the contrary, when they play us, they are not as scrutinized as much as they normally are because the refs are so preoccupied with keeping an eye on us, kinda like being too close to the trees to see the forest.

I do not think that there is a conscious awareness of this bias. I think that the refs are so intensely focused on us that they don't see anything except for the most blatant fouls on our opponents.

I've heard the theory of refs watching us more because of all the penalties we commit. Well even if that is true, it does not absolve the refs and NFL for the discrepancy. Makes me think of " blaming the victim " mantra.

The refs should not be watching us more, end of story. They are suppose to be objective and by paying more attention to us is by default,,,,bias.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I have a theory...I have tried to read all of the response, so forgive me if this has been mentioned before.

Whenever you hear statistics about a referee and his squad, you hear about TOTAL penalties. Then there is typically a breakdown of how many of each type of penalty was called. I believe there is conscious or unconscious compensating by the refs. Because there are so many penalties called on the Hawks, the refs tend to not call as many on the opponents. Maybe because they don't want to slow the game down by calling too many overall penalties, maybe they are slightly graded lower because of a high number of overall penalties, etc... There are a lot of reasons to not call an overabundance of overall penalties.

Before you respond in bold cap's that this has nothing to do with the Hawks penalties...it only has to do with opponents penalties. I understand your point. But I don't think you can look at this in a vacuum without considering the high number of penalties that are being called on the Hawks.

Let me try to illustrate it: Imagine you have two kids that you give an allowance to. You give each kid $1 when they give a compliment to their sibling. Let's say Petey loves giving compliments, while Johnny is not quite as strong at complimenting. Typically Johnny is good at giving compliments, but when you compare him to Petey it's no contest. So half way through the week, you realize that Petey is racking up the bucks and your wallet is going to be feeling it at the end of the week. So you start letting some of Johnny's compliments go unrecognized. That way your are not giving as much total cash out at the end of the week. Theoretically you should be giving out money fairly to each kid, but you are slightly compensating for one kid because the other kid is so extreme. That way the combined result is closer to what is expected.

I think that may be what is going on. The ref's are thinking twice before calling penalties on the opponents because they are forced to call so many pre-snap and other obvious penalties on the Hawks.

I'm not saying that is fair or right, it is just a potential theory.

 

[PlinytheCenter]

Kings/Lakers Western Conference Finals.

I rest my case.

Yep. And I hate basketball...

 

[RichNhansom]

I have a theory...I have tried to read all of the response, so forgive me if this has been mentioned before.

Whenever you hear statistics about a referee and his squad, you hear about TOTAL penalties. Then there is typically a breakdown of how many of each type of penalty was called. I believe there is conscious or unconscious compensating by the refs. Because there are so many penalties called on the Hawks, the refs tend to not call as many on the opponents. Maybe because they don't want to slow the game down by calling too many overall penalties, maybe they are slightly graded lower because of a high number of overall penalties, etc... There are a lot of reasons to not call an overabundance of overall penalties.

Before you respond in bold cap's that this has nothing to do with the Hawks penalties...it only has to do with opponents penalties. I understand your point. But I don't think you can look at this in a vacuum without considering the high number of penalties that are being called on the Hawks.

Let me try to illustrate it: Imagine you have two kids that you give an allowance to. You give each kid $1 when they give a compliment to their sibling. Let's say Petey loves giving compliments, while Johnny is not quite as strong at complimenting. Typically Johnny is good at giving compliments, but when you compare him to Petey it's no contest. So half way through the week, you realize that Petey is racking up the bucks and your wallet is going to be feeling it at the end of the week. So you start letting some of Johnny's compliments go unrecognized. That way your are not giving as much total cash out at the end of the week. Theoretically you should be giving out money fairly to each kid, but you are slightly compensating for one kid because the other kid is so extreme. That way the combined result is closer to what is expected.

I think that may be what is going on. The ref's are thinking twice before calling penalties on the opponents because they are forced to call so many pre-snap and other obvious penalties on the Hawks.

I'm not saying that is fair or right, it is just a potential theory.

I have a theory too, it is called not ignoring the obvious because you don't like the answer.

ABC, NBC, FOX and others are paying enormous amounts of money in fact the lions share of the billions the NFL earns each year and for that to be a good investment some things work better than others. Blowouts are bad for their return because people tune out. Unbalanced competition is even worse because they don't tune in to begin with.

You know what is good? Parity. A competitive game between two evenly matched opponents, You know what's even better than Parity? Rivalries. No game is more entertaining than two teams that want to kill each other. Even better if those two opponents are at an apparent elite level.

Here's the thing. Those broadcast companies paying all that money don't do it without some input. So what kind of input do you think they have? What kinds of requests do you think they would make?

Pro wrestling has been fixed from all the way back to the 1960's but people didn't catch on until the 80's and that was completely fixed. The moves, hits and outcomes were determined before anyone stepped in the ring. Even after it became obvious they still raked in the bucks. Even today some 30 years of knowing it is fixed it still has market value and is still on the air, even though it is nothing more that a soap opera.

I don't believe the NFL is anything like pro wrestling but I definitely believe they affect the the flow of the game for the purpose of keeping the game interesting and keeping people turned in.

The evidence is right in front of your face if you don't willfully ignore it.

A stat I would like to see is how do our opponents fair when getting called for holding against us vs other teams? Teams do research of what officiating crew they have each weak for the purpose of knowing what might be the emphasis of the calls so they can prepare for that. Do you believe our opponents are not aware they are getting called less against us? What do you think they would do with that type of information? Do you think they would make a point at halftime if our pass rush was killing them, to point out to their o-line hey, the officials won't call holding against us so do whatever it takes to keep our QB clean?

Sorry for the rant but at some point coincidence is no longer an acceptable answer.

 

[RiverDog]

I've heard the theory of refs watching us more because of all the penalties we commit. Well even if that is true, it does not absolve the refs and NFL for the discrepancy. Makes me think of " blaming the victim " mantra.

The refs should not be watching us more, end of story. They are suppose to be objective and by paying more attention to us is by default,,,,bias.

I'm not absolving the refs of anything. You're exactly right, they should be watching our opponents just as carefully as they do us. I am only trying to explain how the discrepancy came about. I am recognizing the fact that the refs are human and whether they are conscious about it or not, they will respond to external influences, and in this case, the external input they've been receiving has been our reputation for drawing flags.

We need to start exerting our own external influence.

 

[RichNhansom]

The Ravens were the most penalized team in football the year they beat the Niners in the super bowl so obviously they had the same reputation but they received exactly the opposite treatment as we are getting the year following their super bowl win.

When you consider all the facts you really cannot just explain it away as just some unlucky coincidence.

Take the compliment. The NFL and broadcasting agencies that pay the NFL believe the Seahawks really are that much better than the norm. Look at the only two games the officiating has been even. Green Bay (a team that shouldn't need help) and the Cowboys when they were on fire.

Look at the Niner game also. 14-3 on penalties? That is just crazy but we are talking about the hottest rivalry in the league currently with more matchups coming. A blow out ruins the marketing of that and other games.

Go watch the playoff games from last year and see how much help the Niners got to make it the the Clink. Somehow the officials missed multiple head buts by the Niners against the Panthers but nail the Panthers for one. Imagine how big the marketing was for the NFC C game. It's not a coincidence.

 

[BASF]

It comes down to controlling ratings. This is entertainment. There is no purity of the game going on from the top. It is about ratings and advertising money. The Seahawks fans who continued to watch after the fixed XL will continue to watch. Those ratings will not suffer, but our opponents and casual viewer ratings will suffer if we are too overwhelming. The powers that be know that. When we started blowing teams away half way through 2012 we started killing ratings. In 2013 we started seeing penalties that were affecting us more than the opponents. We continued to be successful and in the playoffs it got worse. The Niners penalties were very light in the NFC Championship game. The refs have swallowed their whistles for our opponents, not really to hurt our chances but to keep the opponents closer. It is not simply a Seahawks phenomenon. It happens league wide to keep ratings consistent to maximize advertising dollars. It is more pronounced with us after we ruined the ratings for the second half of the Super Bowl. Some person with time on their hands could go through to check the following years for the Raiders after they blew out the Redskins, the Bears after they blew out the Patriots, the Skins after they blew out the Broncos, the Niners blew out the Broncos, the Cowboys blew out the Bills, the Niners blew out the Chargers, and the Ravens blew out the Giants and I am positive that they would find the same thing.

The most important thing to any owner of an NFL team is keeping the cash flowing towards themselves. The only way to ensure that is a competitive league where the customers believe that their team always has a chance to win a game. Just look at the franchises that have moved cities. It takes years of their teams being devalued by their fans for an owner to get the permission to move to a different location. It's not like an owner just wakes up one day and says to themselves, "We're moving today to another location." It is planned out years in advance and executed. Hell Behring tried to do it to us. Do you really think that people who are capable of sabotaging their own product to get a "fresh start" aren't capable of agreeing among each other that the games have to remain competitive and the easiest way is to have the refs control the flow of the game?

 

[RichNhansom]

How is it we have only the predetermined prime time season opener at home and zero optional prime time home games after? When was the last time a super bowl champion had that happen?

How about our schedule in general? Another Thursday night game in San Fran? All the division games at the end of the season? How about our biggest competitor (and rival) not having to play us until their players are back? And then (again) the Thursday noght game.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is a Seattle bias. Plug any team in that is demoralizing all their prime time victims and they will get the same treatment but it is definitley something that is not just an ulucky string of events.

 

[RiverDog]

How is it we have only the predetermined prime time season opener at home and zero optional prime time home games after? When was the last time a super bowl champion had that happen?

How about our schedule in general? Another Thursday night game in San Fran? All the division games at the end of the season? How about our biggest competitor (and rival) not having to play us until their players are back? And then (again) the Thursday noght game.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is a Seattle bias. Plug any team in that is demoralizing all their prime time victims and they will get the same treatment but it is definitley something that is not just an ulucky string of events.

The lack of prime time home games has zero effect on competitiveness, so I could care less about the one PT home game.

The entire league is playing most of their divisional games in the back half of the schedule. It's something they did to try to generate excitement in the divisional races, and it seems to be paying off. Just take a look at Eagles-Cowboys. They play twice within 3 weeks, the exact same scenario as Hawks-Niners. IMO I'm glad we're playing a back loaded schedule this season as we're hotter than a firecracker now. I would not have wanted to play 3 or 4 divisional games in the middle of the Harvin debacle and when we were slumping. The way the schedule is breaking seems to be working out perfectly for us this year. The only opponent left on our schedule that's playing decent football is the Rams, and we get them at home.

We need to count our blessings. The league hasn't forced us to go across the pond yet, let alone surrender a home game to those frigging Brits.

 

[StoneCold]

What happened to Goodell's minions? Did they not get the memo? Did they, god forbid, ignore the Poobah's wishes? I thought the NFL was doing everything it can to make certain there wasn't a repeat Super Bowl champ? Wouldn't last nights game been the perfect place for Seattle to appear to have laid an egg? Who would have questioned going into Philly and losing to the Chipper and the Sanchize? Would have been impossible to detect their thumb on the scales. But wait...it didn't happen. :stirthepot:

SC