Must Listen from the latest KJ Wright show

[chris98251]

This is some amazing revisionist history.

Pete took immediate responsibility for the playcall, all the players who were "alienated" played multiple years after SB49 in Seattle, and the reason they left is because they weren't worth keeping around, or they were hurt and no longer worth their contracts.

The fact is Lynch's success rate from the goalline in 2013 was less than 40%. Match that up against a zero blitz front of the Patriots, and the likelihood of him scoring on the play wasn't a high percentage.

If he would have got stuffed, Pete would have been raked over the coals for not coming up with something more creative.

It's disingenuous to hindsight playcall. From a fans perspective, and players. It wasn't a bad call, it was horrible execution. That's how you win SB's, and that offense didn't execute. Period. To keep beating this false narrative isn't going to make anything better. It's just not.

That was coach speak from Pete, he protects his players and coaches, yo0u know better then that.

 

[BASF]

That was coach speak from Pete, he protects his players and coaches, yo0u know better then that.

There is video of Carroll calling Bevell on the headset and asking for a pass for that down. It is on one of the NFL Films version of the game, I think from Apple as I had it on my ITunes account back then. I have not seen it since, but it has to be out there somewhere. Carroll took the blame for that choice. Definitely not coach speak.

Bevell should have taken the blame for the play call, which was stupid because we only ran one play out of that formation. If he had gone with a variation of that play out of that formation, we get a walk in touchdown. Bevell never took the blame for it. He threw the receivers under the bus for their poor execution, which is the truth, but the coach is definitely not supposed to say that to the media. Bevell should have been fired for that (not protecting the team, which is one of Carroll's cardinal rules). As was alluded to, he was probably the coach that brought up our defense giving up the ten point lead, which helped fracture the locker room more.

 

[scutterhawk]

This is some amazing revisionist history.

Pete took immediate responsibility for the playcall, all the players who were "alienated" played multiple years after SB49 in Seattle, and the reason they left is because they weren't worth keeping around, or they were hurt and no longer worth their contracts.

The fact is Lynch's success rate from the goalline in 2013 was less than 40%. Match that up against a zero blitz front of the Patriots, and the likelihood of him scoring on the play wasn't a high percentage.

If he would have got stuffed, Pete would have been raked over the coals for not coming up with something more creative.

It's disingenuous to hindsight playcall. From a fans perspective, and players. It wasn't a bad call, it was horrible execution. That's how you win SB's, and that offense didn't execute. Period. To keep beating this false narrative isn't going to make anything better. It's just not.

LOL Less than 40%? you mean it wasn't a sure fire bet that Marshawn wouldn't have made it in?....I agree 100%.
IF Pete & Co. would have believed with all their might, that Lynch WOULD HAVE made it, Wilson would absolutely NOT have even been signaled to throw that ball... period.
I've been saying for YEARS that Russ' had piss poor execution on that particular FINAL PLAY.
The fact that everybody just knew for certain that they were going to score & win that game, and they didn't? a lot of people had convinced themselves that it was a guaranteed given that either Marshawn or Wilson himself should have just Run the ball in for the win.
For sure Pete took the heat for calling the play, and it's a no brainer that that's just how he has ALWAYS rolled.

 

[hawkfan68]

There is video of Carroll calling Bevell on the headset and asking for a pass for that down. It is on one of the NFL Films version of the game, I think from Apple as I had it on my ITunes account back then. I have not seen it since, but it has to be out there somewhere. Carroll took the blame for that choice. Definitely not coach speak.

Bevell should have taken the blame for the play call, which was stupid because we only ran one play out of that formation. If he had gone with a variation of that play out of that formation, we get a walk in touchdown. Bevell never took the blame for it. He threw the receivers under the bus for their poor execution, which is the truth, but the coach is definitely not supposed to say that to the media. Bevell should have been fired for that (not protecting the team, which is one of Carroll's cardinal rules). As was alluded to, he was probably the coach that brought up our defense giving up the ten point lead, which helped fracture the locker room more.

I'm not excusing the execution of the play but the personnel grouping for the play was horrible. Lockette as the primary receiver on the play? Yikes. If he had Willson, Matthews, Baldwin, or Lynch in that spot, the interception doesn't happen. Most likely a TD occurs. Personnel grouping, I believe, falls directly under the responsibility of the OC. Sending the wrong personnel on a play can also factor in having poor execution as the result.

 

[scutterhawk]

I'm not excusing the execution of the play but the personnel grouping for the play was horrible. Lockette as the primary receiver on the play? Yikes. If he had Willson, Matthews, Baldwin, or Lynch in that spot, the interception doesn't happen. Most likely a TD occurs. Personnel grouping, I believe, falls directly under the responsibility of the OC. Sending the wrong personnel on a play can also factor in having poor execution as the result.

And still....The Common Denominator? > Russell Wilson.
Everybody wants to pin the blame on somebody, >>ANYBODY BUT<< Russell Wilson, it's actually pretty simple once you break out the scales and do an honest assessment.
I'm NOT NOW nor have I ever been a Russell Wilson "Hater", but facts are facts and always will be..> RW had Poor Execution 'On That Particular Play'. shit happens to even the BEST of the best.

 

[hawkfan68]

And still....The Common Denominator? > Russell Wilson.
Everybody wants to pin the blame on somebody, >>ANYBODY BUT<< Russell Wilson, it's actually pretty simple once you break out the scales and do an honest assessment.
I'm NOT NOW nor have I ever been a Russell Wilson "Hater", but facts are facts and always will be..> RW had Poor Execution 'On That Particular Play'. shit happens to even the BEST of the best.

In no way I'm excusing RW for poor execution. Unlike you, I'm not blaming him solely for that play. Russell Wilson isn't "the common denominator" unless you think Russell calls every play on offense for the Seahawks (minus the input of the OC and PC). Which could be true but you have no way of proving it. Unless you're in that huddle or having the conversation with coaches on the headset, you won't know if RW was the final one to make the call. Really the fact that Bevell was throwing players under the bus suggests that he may be the culprit. If he wasn't, why would he even have to defend himself? He could have just said the play I called was changed. He didn't. Furthermore, Russell wasn't the only one who executed poorly on that play. It was a failure all the way around.

 

[keasley45]

W

In no way I'm excusing RW for poor execution. Unlike you, I'm not blaming him solely for that play. Russell Wilson isn't "the common denominator" unless you think Russell calls every play on offense for the Seahawks. Which could be true but you have no way of proving it. Unless you're in that huddle or having the conversation with coaches on the headset, you won't know if RW was the final one to make the call. Really the fact that Bevell was throwing players under the bus suggests that he may be the culprit. If he wasn't, why would he even have to defend himsel? He could have just said the play I called was changed. He didn't. Furthermore, Russell wasn't the only one who executed poorly on that play. It was a failure all the way aroaround.

who else executed poorly? Lockette ran the route properly. He's supposed to get the ball behind the pick, not beyond it where the ball was thrown. The line blocked. There was no pressure. The wr was where he was supposed to be.

The defender was able to make the play because the ball was where he could get it. Throw it behind the pick... no chance for that to happen.

Lockette sprinting beyond the pick and into the middle of the defensive backfield (and behind the LOS where the throwing lane stands to obscured) would defeat the purpose.

The only question about that play is what passed between Bevell and Russ on the headset. Did Bev offer two plays and Russ preferred the throw and so it was called? Or did Bev out-think himself and despite having designed a play for that exact situation, saw NE go goal line and then decided to go pass.

Only Russ, Bev and Pete know the answer to that.

 

[hawkfan68]

W

who else executed poorly? Lockette ran the route properly. He's supposed to get the ball behind the pick, not beyond it where the ball was thrown. The line blocked. There was no pressure. The wr was where he was supposed to be.

The defender was able to make the play because the ball was where he could get it. Throw it behind the pick... no chance for that to happen.

Lockette sprinting beyond the pick and into the middle of the defensive backfield (and behind the LOS where the throwing lane stands to obscured) would defeat the purpose.

The only question about that play is what passed between Bevell and Russ on the headset. Did Bev offer two plays and Russ preferred the throw and so it was called? Or did Bev out-think himself and despite having designed a play for that exact situation, saw NE go goal line and then decided to go pass.

Only Russ, Bev and Pete know the answer to that.

What if Russ was throwing to a spot rather than a player? Maybe he thought Lockette would be faster to the ball. If Lockette executed it properly then why did Bevell throw him under the bus and say he was slow to the ball? The route was a timing throw. Had Lockette got to the spot Russ was throwing to quicker, maybe the INT doesn't happen either. That's why it was a poorly executed play all around. Timing throws need to have everything almost perfect to work. It was a high risk play from the get go. But they did the same play to Lynch earlier in the regular season with success (I believe it was vs. Panthers).

Here's are couple of paragraphs from an article discussing the play-

"We know the when, the where and the what. Sunday night, final minute of the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl in Arizona, Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson throws a seemingly inexplicable interception from the New England Patriots 1-yard line with his team trailing by four points, sealing his and his team's fate.

But how about the why and the who? Hindsight makes it particularly easy to criticize Seahawks offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell and head coach Pete Carroll for the play call, Wilson for the poor decision and/or throw and wide receiver Ricardo Lockette for the route he ran, and the reality is that in a nuanced game like this, it's rarely possible to place all of the blame on one man."

Link to the full article -

Blame for Malcolm Butler's Interception Goes Well Beyond Seahawks' Play Call

 

[BASF]

Who else executed poorly?

JR Sweezy primarily. Breno Giacomini secondly. Russell Wilson thirdly. Jermaine Kearse fourthly. Ricardo Lockette fifthly.

The line blocked. There was no pressure.

Pressure was not the point. Sweezy was required to stand up his assignment as was Breno Giacomini. Both of them failed spectacularly on that play. The Patriots knew that route was coming and sold out rushing to that side despite Lynch being on the opposite side to potentially take a hand off. In that play Sweezy needs to maintain his defensive linemen to his left, by turning him away from the passing lane. Giacomini needed to steer his defensive linemen to his right, thus opening the passing lane for our way too short to be running this play without a perfect passing lane.

The wr was where he was supposed to be.

Lockette was late to the spot he needed to be due to Browner's contact on Kearse not clearing out the area as it should have been if Browner was not Browner and had faced this play probably hundreds of times in practice while playing for us. Of course he would know it was coming and how to counter it.

The defender was able to make the play because the ball was where he could get it. Throw it behind the pick... no chance for that to happen.

It could not be thrown to where it was supposed to go, because the passing lane never materialized due to poor line play. Russ should have improvised from there or at the very least thrown the ball out of the back of the end zone.

Lockette sprinting beyond the pick and into the middle of the defensive backfield (and behind the LOS where the throwing lane stands to obscured) would defeat the purpose.

The only question about that play is what passed between Bevell and Russ on the headset. Did Bev offer two plays and Russ preferred the throw and so it was called? Or did Bev out-think himself and despite having designed a play for that exact situation, saw NE go goal line and then decided to go pass.

Only Russ, Bev and Pete know the answer to that.

Carroll asked for the pass. He is responsible for that. Pete owned up to it.

Bevell called the failure play. He is responsible for that. Bevell did not own up to this.

Wilson did not execute well after his two offensive linemen got manhandled thus eliminating the passing lane that Wilson, being short, needed to complete that pass. Wilson has taken full responsibility for the interception.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

LOL Less than 40%? you mean it wasn't a sure fire bet that Marshawn wouldn't have made it in?....I agree 100%.
IF Pete & Co. would have believed with all their might, that Lynch WOULD HAVE made it, Wilson would absolutely NOT have even been signaled to throw that ball... period.
I've been saying for YEARS that Russ' had piss poor execution on that particular FINAL PLAY.
The fact that everybody just knew for certain that they were going to score & win that game, and they didn't? a lot of people had convinced themselves that it was a guaranteed given that either Marshawn or Wilson himself should have just Run the ball in for the win.
For sure Pete took the heat for calling the play, and it's a no brainer that that's just how he has ALWAYS rolled.

Right, revisionist history at worst, and hindsight head coaching at best.

I'm just tired of talking about it, like the outcomes going to change if we keep bashing Pete, or Russell, or whoever your scapegoat is for SB49.

 

[keasley45]

JR Sweezy primarily. Breno Giacomini secondly. Russell Wilson thirdly. Jermaine Kearse fourthly. Ricardo Lockette fifthly.


Pressure was not the point. Sweezy was required to stand up his assignment as was Breno Giacomini. Both of them failed spectacularly on that play. The Patriots knew that route was coming and sold out rushing to that side despite Lynch being on the opposite side to potentially take a hand off. In that play Sweezy needs to maintain his defensive linemen to his left, by turning him away from the passing lane. Giacomini needed to steer his defensive linemen to his right, thus opening the passing lane for our way too short to be running this play without a perfect passing lane.


Lockette was late to the spot he needed to be due to Browner's contact on Kearse not clearing out the area as it should have been if Browner was not Browner and had faced this play probably hundreds of times in practice while playing for us. Of course he would know it was coming and how to counter it.

It could not be thrown to where it was supposed to go, because the passing lane never materialized due to poor line play. Russ should have improvised from there or at the very least thrown the ball out of the back of the end zone.


Carroll asked for the pass. He is responsible for that. Pete owned up to it.

Bevell called the failure play. He is responsible for that. Bevell did not own up to this.

Wilson did not execute well after his two offensive linemen got manhandled thus eliminating the passing lane that Wilson, being short, needed to complete that pass. Wilson has taken full responsibility for the interception.

Do you see where that ball was thrown. It was a ball lockette has to reach up (and jump up) for even if he sprints behind the screen.

When you watch the slomo, the thing that's obviously wrong is that the ball is way further inside than the wr expected. And the wr shouldn't have to be sprinting inside. That entirely defeats the purpose. Bev throwing Lock under the bus wasn't truth telling. It was him not placing the blame at the feet of the qb or the playcall.

There was ample room to throw that ball where it needed to go. Lockette looked back to Russ right away. The ball was held and then thrown high and inside.

Look at the images attached. Lock slow drags behind the pick. The completion is open all day. For 3 yards. Russ instead blasts the ball inside. If anything, the way Butler stacked, it was obvious he was sniffing something and Russ should have seen it (Butler is looking right at him) and hit Lock sooner, or given the obvious lane he had to throw through, hit him low on the body. It's obvious from the catch point where both players are 18-24" in the air that the ball placement is poor.

Russ had 2 windows to hit lockette. A catch and release where he slides a step right in the pocket and gets the ball out behind the screen, or in the window he threw it, but low on the body. He did neither and threw it right at the closing M Butler. If Lockette wasn't there, it woukd have looked like Russ was playing pitch and catch with the NE cb.

 

[BASF]

Do you see where that ball was thrown. It was a ball lockette has to reach up (and jump up) for even if he sprints behind the screen.

When you watch the slomo, the thing that's obviously wrong is that the ball is way further inside than the wr expected. And the wr shouldn't have to be sprinting inside. That entirely defeats the purpose. Bev throwing Lock under the bus wasn't truth telling. It was him not placing the blame at the feet of the qb or the playcall.

There was ample room to throw that ball where it needed to go. Lockette looked back to Russ right away. The ball was held and then thrown high and inside.

Look at the images attached. Lock slow drags behind the pick. The completion is open all day. For 3 yards. Russ instead blasts the ball inside. If anything, the way Butler stacked, it was obvious he was sniffing something and Russ should have seen it (Butler is looking right at him) and hit Lock sooner, or given the obvious lane he had to throw through, hit him low on the body. It's obvious from the catch point where both players are 18-24" in the air that the ball placement is poor.

Russ had 2 windows to hit lockette. A catch and release where he slides a step right in the pocket and gets the ball out behind the screen, or in the window he threw it, but low on the body. He did neither and threw it right at the closing M Butler. If Lockette wasn't there, it woukd have looked like Russ was playing pitch and catch with the NE cb.

Ball has to be thrown in your second screenshot into the gut of the receiver. Notice in the picture that Sweezy and Giacomini have been pushed into were the passing lane needs to be.

 

[keasley45]

Ball has to be thrown in your second screenshot into the gut of the receiver. Notice in the picture that Sweezy and Giacomini have been pushed into were the passing lane needs to be.

And sweet Jesus, all the talk about lockette being too slow to the ball. HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DRAGGING BEHIND THE PICK. In the video above breaking down GOTO short yardage passing plays, the narrator comments about 1 minute in about how the receiver who is also running an inside rub, does a great job of not moving too quickly inside for concern of pulling st DB into the play. Different formation. Same concept. And ironically, also a poor throw by the qb.

The ONLY way Butler can get the ball is if it's thrown to spot he can reach. Yes. He did make a great play, but Russ made it unnecessarily easy for him.

 

[scutterhawk]

Right, revisionist history at worst, and hindsight head coaching at best.

I'm just tired of talking about it, like the outcomes going to change if we keep bashing Pete, or Russell, or whoever your scapegoat is for SB49.

Yeah, re-re-redredging up 49 wasn't my doing, it's become a never going to heal, old festered sore that just keeps getting picked at.
Every great philosopher in here is locked in on who's to blame & who in their mind should get a free pass, so it's all a moot point anyway.
Seems that when we win, it's because the Quarterback has taken the team, put it on their back and willed up the victories, but when the team loses, it's always someone other than the QB's fault.
I guess I could just let this particular subject die of a natural death, but we all know that that ain't going to happen, as someone will always bring it back to life. LOL

 

[WmHBonney]

Going back to the interview....Luke said that many of the Seahawks "hated" Jimmy before the trade. I remember that to be true. He also said that the big question everyone had was why would they go and get Jimmy when everyone knew that Jimmy was not a blocking TE and that the Seahawks offense would not use Jimmy properly. He also said that had Jimmy stayed put in New Orleans, he would have finished his career as one of the top TEs in the history of the game. As has been stated here elsewhere, Luke and Jimmy are good friends, even to this day. He wasn't bashing Jimmy. The other interesting statement made by Luke was that one by one, the players that couldn't get over the fiasco of SB49 were sent packing. Great interview and a must see.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Going back to the interview....Luke said that many of the Seahawks "hated" Jimmy before the trade. I remember that to be true. He also said that the big question everyone had was why would they go and get Jimmy when everyone knew that Jimmy was not a blocking TE and that the Seahawks offense would not use Jimmy properly. He also said that had Jimmy stayed put in New Orleans, he would have finished his career as one of the top TEs in the history of the game. As has been stated here elsewhere, Luke and Jimmy are good friends, even to this day. He wasn't bashing Jimmy. The other interesting statement made by Luke was that one by one, the players that couldn't get over the fiasco of SB49 were sent packing. Great interview and a must see.

I think it all went back to when Bruce and Jimmy got into it pre-game before the Saints Hawks game. The Hawk defenders saw Graham as a soft finesse TE that talked a lot of crap, so not hard to see why they didn't like the trade.

Especially now that we know they were also extremely frustrated at the FO's and Pete's coddling of Russ. So they also saw the Graham trade as an unnecessary move that was just made to appease Russ's complaining of not having any playmakers on offense.

Honestly, they weren't wrong on either front.

 

[rcaido]

Graham trade was pretty much the Mighty Ducks storyline.

Adam Banks(Graham) star rival got traded to the Ducks(Seahawks) Charlie(Russell Wilson welcomes him) the rest of the team didnt. Unlike the movie where Coach Bombay used Banks to his potential, PC change Graham role and never got the respect of the players. QUACK QUACK QUACK

 

[bsuhawk]

What I found interesting is that KJ and Gee Scott have a $1,000 bet that RW doesn't finish the season as the Broncos starting QB (with KJ saying he will). To me, this is a tough call, primarily because Sean Payton has been very careful to NOT show any support for RW.

 

[morgulon1]

In no way I'm excusing RW for poor execution. Unlike you, I'm not blaming him solely for that play. Russell Wilson isn't "the common denominator" unless you think Russell calls every play on offense for the Seahawks (minus the input of the OC and PC). Which could be true but you have no way of proving it. Unless you're in that huddle or having the conversation with coaches on the headset, you won't know if RW was the final one to make the call. Really the fact that Bevell was throwing players under the bus suggests that he may be the culprit. If he wasn't, why would he even have to defend himself? He could have just said the play I called was changed. He didn't. Furthermore, Russell wasn't the only one who executed poorly on that play. It was a failure all the way around.

Russell Wilson threw an I'll advised pass to the wrong dude. Doug Baldwin , Willson, anyone . The qb is the guy the gets the glory if they win, he should get the heat when they fail. Wilson could've faked the pass and walked in. Horrible execution in his "Joe Montana moment".



Just give it to 24 . He would've made it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

What I found interesting is that KJ and Gee Scott have a $1,000 bet that RW doesn't finish the season as the Broncos starting QB (with KJ saying he will). To me, this is a tough call, primarily because Sean Payton has been very careful to NOT show any support for RW.

Payton was brought in to clean house and kick Russ's ass back into some semblance of a good QB.

So yeah, I don't think he'll hesitate to yank Russ if he continues to stink up the joint like he did last year. Payton is not beholden to Russ, he's there to win.