Must Listen from the latest KJ Wright show

[rcaido]

I think the layer in there that Luke / KJ were careful to walk around was why Jimmy was there in the first place. I guarantee you it wasn't Petes first thought to trade away Unger for a TE, regardless of how good. Tearing out the heart of your road grading oline for a TE? Doesn't sound like him.
I'm sure the QB was lobbying for more weapons to prove his worth opposite the D (and push off criticism from them) and alongside Lynch, and the OC was having to fight off criticism himself for questionable calls from outspoken players on defensea and so, was all for it. And it wouldn't be the only time Russ made his desires for a better offensive player known. He'd just become more vocal in later years after all of his critics were invited to take their leave.

And Graham came in just after the SB loss. The team was obviously in the midst of a fracture. I think it's pretty clear given the resentment and vocal criticism of how things went down, that shifting power to RW and away from those who were honest about what went wrong was a HUGE part of why Jimmy was brought in. He was caught in the middle of a family feud.

I don't think Luke carried any bias at all. I think he called it accurately and by Luke's account, he and Jimmy are great friends - he mentioned they were getting together this week.

This all is just verification that that article in The Athletic following the 2020 season was spot on. The coddling of the Qb prior to the SB loss, the final call in that loss, and then the deliberate shift of power and influence away from players critical of #3, destroyed the team.

It's fascinating to hear first hand how it all went down, but heartbreaking as well. Makes me pull for this new incarnation even more now as they seem to be the re incarnation of the old guard, come to finish the job their predecessors started. So many lost years.

Sorry that's a bit of hard pill to swallow. Wilson was only in his 3rd year, he wasn't putting up superstar stats yet. He hasn't even been paid. He hasn't even met Ciara. I find that hard to believe. Did he orchestrated the Percy Harvin trade too?

 

[hawkfan68]

Great podcast. Bevell being handcuffed was interesting. Not knowing where the play originally came from? Somebody knows and it'll come out at some point. The defense giving up 10 points but Earl saying if he and the rest of the secondary wasnt so beat up, that would have never have happened (people never take that into account when they bring it up).

One play destroyed the team. Just run the damn ball.

I don't fully buy the Bevell being handcuffed part. The only person handcuffing Bevell was Bevell himself. He hasn't done anything since he left the Seahawks.

 

[keasley45]

Sorry that's a bit of hard pill to swallow. Wilson was only in his 3rd year, he wasn't putting up superstar stats yet. He hasn't even been paid. He hasn't even met Ciara. I find that hard to believe. Did he orchestrated the Percy Harvin trade too?

Wilson was at the moment the pivot. He and Jimmy were bffs from the beginning. Hard to believe he wouldn't have lobbied for him coming in and skewing influence away from others.. Drew Brees's best weapon and Payton's prize receiver... its literally out of his personal wishlist.
Don't know about Harvin, but he lobbied hard and vocally for Antonio Brown (idiocy), Brandon Marshall(idiocy), and an over the hill Greg Olson(idiocy and we paid him like he was coming off an all pro season).

 

[keasley45]

I don't fully buy the Bevell being handcuffed part. The only person handcuffing Bevell was Bevell himself. He hasn't done anything since he left the Seahawks.

I think either Bev and Russ sorted it out on the headet, or Bev out-dumbed himself. Bev and Russ would always talk pre series on the sideline. The call that Luke mentioned in the NFC CG... theres video of Bevell telling Russ before their last possession that he'd give him that audible / call.

For the record, I don't think it was a bad call to pass, but out of an option look or with Russ on the edge.

But to know now that they chose pass over a designed play for that situation... and to know it was a new wrinkle to Lynch...

That stings.

 

[rcaido]

Wilson was at the moment the pivot. He and Jimmy were bffs from the beginning. Hard to believe he wouldn't have lobbied for him coming in and skewing influence away from others.. Drew Brees's best weapon and Payton's prize receiver... its literally out of his personal wishlist.
Don't know about Harvin, but he lobbied hard and vocally for Antonio Brown (idiocy), Brandon Marshall(idiocy), and an over the hill Greg Olson(idiocy and we paid him like he was coming off an all pro season).

If that was the case, why did they make Graham a blocking TE and reduce 50% of thrown balls to him compared too NO.

As for Antonio Brown, the bucs won a super bowl. Marshall was like a WR4, not really important and had no impact. Olson was over paid i give you that. That was dumb.

 

[Jville]

I think the layer in there that Luke / KJ were careful to walk around was why Jimmy was there in the first place. I guarantee you it wasn't Petes first thought to trade away Unger for a TE, regardless of how good. Tearing out the heart of your road grading oline for a TE? Doesn't sound like him.
I'm sure the QB was lobbying for more weapons to prove his worth opposite the D (and push off criticism from them) and alongside Lynch, and the OC was having to fight off criticism himself for questionable calls from outspoken players on defensea and so, was all for it. And it wouldn't be the only time Russ made his desires for a better offensive player known. He'd just become more vocal in later years after all of his critics were invited to take their leave.

And Graham came in just after the SB loss. The team was obviously in the midst of a fracture. I think it's pretty clear given the resentment and vocal criticism of how things went down, that shifting power to RW and away from those who were honest about what went wrong was a HUGE part of why Jimmy was brought in. He was caught in the middle of a family feud.

I don't think Luke carried any bias at all. I think he called it accurately and by Luke's account, he and Jimmy are great friends - he mentioned they were getting together this week.

This all is just verification that that article in The Athletic following the 2020 season was spot on. The coddling of the Qb prior to the SB loss, the final call in that loss, and then the deliberate shift of power and influence away from players critical of #3, destroyed the team.

It's fascinating to hear first hand how it all went down, but heartbreaking as well. Makes me pull for this new incarnation even more now as they seem to be the re incarnation of the old guard, come to finish the job their predecessors started. So many lost years.

Around the time of the trade, Max Unger was heavily concerned about concussions. It was the lead NFL media story of that time. Media stories continually tied Max Unger to stories about concussion concerns over an extended period of time. Unger expressed reservations about continuing to play in the face of concerns about brain damage. For him, an early retirement was an active consideration. In the face of that climate, the Seahawks made a value trade for a TE who was unhappy with his his existing contract. Both went on to have continued success with their new teams.

For me, the what, why and how of the Unger for Graham trade was rather transparent and straight forward.

 

[KinesProf]

I don't fully buy the Bevell being handcuffed part.

Any OC with Russell Wilson as their QB is handcuffed or limited to an extent. For all of Russ' strengths and excellence, you can't run a full playbook with him as your QB. A lot of middle of the field concepts have to be scrapped with Russ at QB. Timing, rhythm, pace in and out of the huddle, a lot of pre-snap work are bigtime limitations in his game that make being a Russ OC a very tough gig. Luke pretty much drew a direct line from Bevell's coaching to the conference winning overtime TD against the Packers - of which Russ and Kearse justifiably get credit for executing.

Bevell, Schottenheimer, Hackett, and Outten have all, in recent memory, lost their gigs after trying to coach Russ. Eventually the same player becoming the common denominator says a lot. Great QBs get their OCs promoted - Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Hurts, and Allen, off the top of my head, have seen their OCs become HCs in recent memory. Meanwhile Geno's 2022 led to Canales getting a promotion to Bucs OC from Seahawks QB coach.

 

[Aircrew]

When 49 happened, like most Hawk fans, I was gutted. But alot has happened since then and as a fan I'm at peace with it. My logic is that it's easier to take the 49 loss because we beat ourselves versus 40 when we were robbed by the league. Fair versus unfair.

 

[keasley45]

Around the time of the trade, Max Unger was heavily concerned about concussions. It was the lead NFL media story of that time. Media stories continually tied Max Unger to stories about concussion concerns over an extended period of time. Unger expressed reservations about continuing to play in the face of concerns about brain damage. For him, an early retirement was an active consideration. In the face of that climate, the Seahawks made a value trade for a TE who was unhappy with his his existing contract. Both went on to have continued success with their new teams.

For me, the what, why and how of the Unger for Graham trade was rather transparent and straight forward.

I have to say I don't at all remember him talking about considering early retirement. I recall him being upset he was traded:

Max Unger 'was annoyed with trade decision' - Sports Mole

Offensive lineman Max Unger admits that he was initially annoyed at being traded to the New Orleans Saints by the Seattle Seahawks. : american football new orleans saints transfer talk news unger was annoyed with trade decision 211693

amp.sportsmole.co.uk

And I recall that around that time there were many players around the NFL speaking out on concussions and player safety and that Max, being a vocal leader on the team was maybe one of them. Just don't remember there being a fear on his part or the Hawks that his career might be shortened.

And I still don't know why from an x's and o's perspective they made the trade in the first place. It made no sense then. Makes no sense now.

Harvin, head-case aside, I could understand. He was electric. Kick return, punt return. Out wide, in the slot. Jet sweeps... he was a dagger.

Jimmy for Unger?

I think the shift in power away from the LOB and Lynch and to Russ and his future 'crew' was a factor.

But maybe you're right.

 

[Jville]

I have to say I don't at all remember him talking about considering early retirement. I recall him being upset he was traded:

Max Unger 'was annoyed with trade decision' - Sports Mole

Offensive lineman Max Unger admits that he was initially annoyed at being traded to the New Orleans Saints by the Seattle Seahawks. : american football new orleans saints transfer talk news unger was annoyed with trade decision 211693

amp.sportsmole.co.uk

And I recall that around that time there were many players around the NFL speaking out on concussions and player safety and that Max, being a vocal leader on the team was maybe one of them. Just don't remember there being a fear on his part or the Hawks that his career might be shortened.

And I still don't know why from an x's and o's perspective they made the trade in the first place. It made no sense then. Makes no sense now.

Harvin, head-case aside, I could understand. He was electric. Kick return, punt return. Out wide, in the slot. Jet sweeps... he was a dagger.

Jimmy for Unger?

I think the shift in power away from the LOB and Lynch and to Russ and his future 'crew' was a factor.

But maybe you're right.

From the standpoint of team fit, the trade certainly didn't make sense .... then or now. I hated the trade. It damaged the scheme and chemistry of the offense. My assumption, at the time, was that the front office panicked over the potential loss of retiring value and with a lot of assistance and prodding from the Saints made the trade. The Saint's definitely were motivated to move Graham ..... as they had no choice. Graham wasn't a fit in Seattle. Unger was an outstanding fit for both teams.

 

[rcaido]

I dont recall Unger considered retiring either. I think it had more to do with the injuries that season and the amount he got paid. He missed half of the season and was in the top 5 salary as a Center in the NFL. They drafted Justin Britt that season too, so they may have already been planning a replacement. They just got done making Thomas & Kam the highest paid safeties. Sherman was due. I think Avril & Bennett too. Also Wagner and Wilson were next.

Its also possible, he could have been the few people who were very vocal of the SB49 play. KJ mention that they move players that couldn't get over it. Ungar could have been one of them.

 

[BASF]

The Graham trade was a direct result of our red zone efficiency. Everyone saw what the big receiver in Chris Matthews did for Me3 in the super bowl in the first half. The problem was he was not good enough to sustain that play. Too limited in moves and routes, but Graham didn't have those limitations.

 

[pmedic920]

The Graham trade was a direct result of our red zone efficiency. Everyone saw what the big receiver in Chris Matthews did for Me3 in the super bowl in the first half. The problem was he was not good enough to sustain that play. Too limited in moves and routes, but Graham didn't have those limitations.

Not at you specifically but to all in general.

The fact is, we now have a first hand “player” perspective of what that trade meant to players and how it contributed to the “decline” if you will.

My takeaway is, it appears to have been a perfect storm scenario that led to what our team became.
I personally think it’s a testament to how important chemistry is in terms of a NFL football team.

I’m thankful that we are currently in a situation where none of those things should be effecting this team. Just another reason for all of us to be stoked about the future.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

When 49 happened, like most Hawk fans, I was gutted. But alot has happened since then and as a fan I'm at peace with it. My logic is that it's easier to take the 49 loss because we beat ourselves versus 40 when we were robbed by the league. Fair versus unfair.

It would have been a lot worse had we not won 48. Look at the Falcons. Never won, then 28-3 and not close since.

I always felt like Luke said about what could have been: 2 champsinships in a row: The 13 and 14 Hawks would have been in the conversation with every other back to back winner. That was taken away.

 

[CactusJack]

The biggest take away for me was the vibe around the team in 2021. The whole Russ situation clearly played a role. But it would be fascinating to know why that was the case? Lack of leadership?

 

[Year of The Hawk]

The biggest take away for me was the vibe around the team in 2021. The whole Russ situation clearly played a role. But it would be fascinating to know why that was the case? Lack of leadership?

Probably a culmination of many things. Many of the players (even some vets) were disenfranchised after the Owl.Now in 2021 there were less than a handful of players left from that time. The problem probably seemed from the attitude from vets no longer buying in while new players were onboarding (before 2021). The Pete philosophy was no longer bought into. Sherman even alluded to this after things went south after the owl. The Russ situation probably also played into this. Often it is hard to see the situation holistically when you are so close to it. We have the luxury of being on the outside and hindsight. Trading Russ and YES even letting BWags go was probably what the team needed to get reset (not rebuild) and have people buy into the Pete philosophy. It is apparent that original Pete energy is back and the train is back on its track. Lots of hungry alpha rookies and a QB truly leading. Really excited for this season.

 

[CouchLogic]

Cool interview and insight, but at this point I just don't care anymore, haha. Who gives a crap, it was a decade ago. It's like giving a damn about a fender bender that happened 10yrs after the fact. Doesn't matter at this point, got a new car. I don't think for one minute Mahomes gives second thought about KC getting lambasted by TB outside of being asked about it.

SB49 are the cds you left in your bfs truck, to be used as an excuse not to dump their ass and move on. Get over it already, haha.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I don't fully buy the Bevell being handcuffed part. The only person handcuffing Bevell was Bevell himself. He hasn't done anything since he left the Seahawks.

Who knows. I take a couple things away from it. I may not have given bevell the credit he deserves and bevell didn’t have the talent anywhere else that he had in Seattle. Hard to disagree with the actual players but again, who knows.

 

[chris98251]

Threefold, someone called that play or Wilson ran it as a option, Coaches were not accountable for it, bs excuse that nobody bought and also alienated the players. Blame thrown at the players from some staff, which now created a whole trust issue. Players who questioned this were shipped out further destroying the team unity.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Threefold, someone called that play or Wilson ran it as a option, Coaches were not accountable for it, bs excuse that nobody bought and also alienated the players. Blame thrown at the players from some staff, which now created a whole trust issue. Players who questioned this were shipped out further destroying the team unity.

This is some amazing revisionist history.

Pete took immediate responsibility for the playcall, all the players who were "alienated" played multiple years after SB49 in Seattle, and the reason they left is because they weren't worth keeping around, or they were hurt and no longer worth their contracts.

The fact is Lynch's success rate from the goalline in 2013 was less than 40%. Match that up against a zero blitz front of the Patriots, and the likelihood of him scoring on the play wasn't a high percentage.

If he would have got stuffed, Pete would have been raked over the coals for not coming up with something more creative.

It's disingenuous to hindsight playcall. From a fans perspective, and players. It wasn't a bad call, it was horrible execution. That's how you win SB's, and that offense didn't execute. Period. To keep beating this false narrative isn't going to make anything better. It's just not.