Mort: Seahawks looking at Vince Young as a back-up

[The Outfield]

We should offer Oakland a 7th for Matt Flynn. Just to see if they're paying attention.

Haha, thanks for the laugh!

 

[Stoned Cold]

I think Young would fall in line with all the other big name free agents we've brought in....T.O., Winslow Jr., Edwards, Vince Young.
They'll bring him in to compete, but also bring some rookie in to make it interesting.
Within weeks Young will show if he is professional enough or not, or his talent will show what he really is.
He or someone else will get a shot in preseason and than they will be cut before contracts are guaranteed. Kicking tires, turning over rocks, etc.
If he makes it he deserves it, but don't be fooled into thinking the back up won't have competition. Thats what Pete is all about.

Personally I think they want Leinart. They wanted him when they pulled the offer from Hasselbeck in the lock out year. But he chose the Texans.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

We should offer Oakland a 7th for Matt Flynn. Just to see if they're paying attention.

Very nice. I'm still laughing.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

We should offer Oakland a 7th for Matt Flynn. Just to see if they're paying attention.

:lol:

 

[hawker84]

Nice. Vince Young is my top choice of the available dudes.

mine as well... Heck i'd take Seneca over the rest of the candidates at this point... he played RW-esk when Russ was in pop-warner...

 

[MLOhawks]

Pete knows what Vince can do, especially because of that big game against him at USC, but I doubt Pete seriously considers Vince because of his complete opposite list of strengths compared to Wilson.

 

[Subzero717]

I thought this has already been put to bed?

 

[Giedi]

Signing VY for anything would be a bad decision. I'd rather see Portis get PT over him. VY Can barely handle 1 read when dropping back let alone 2...can't get through progressions for ish. He's terrible.

I agree, from my understanding - he had some mental problems which aren't easily cured. Probably still has them.

 

[jammerhawk]

Ain't happening, nothing to see here, let's move along now to the Thigpen sucks thread.

 

[olyfan63]

Vince Young shows all the signs of being a sociopath. His particular flavor also shows numerous signs that seem to align with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

For you Tacoma people, do you remember a guy named Dale Washam, who randomly got elected as Pierce County Treasurer, then cost the county millions in lawsuit settlements? Yeah, we're talking about the same kind of "leadership" influence. Google it and have some laughs (and some cries, real and local people are involved). As much as I like VY's talent, I just don't think the tiger can change his stripes.

Since I'm not a psychologist, that means I can say things that are obvious to most observers, without it being an "ethics violation"-because-I-haven't-examined-him. Life brought me a cornucopia of sociopaths over the last 10 years, and I'm getting all too skilled at noticing the signs. My ex-wife's attorney (Narcissistic PD), a nearly-disastrous romantic relationship with a sociopathic Borderline PD, and for several years dated gals whose exes were Narcissist PD's. I paid attention and noticed the patterns. The absolute BEST thing you can do with sociopaths is not to get into any significant business or personal relationship in the first place.

There's enough data out there to reasonably conclude that VY shows numerous signs of being a sociopath, most likely of the Narcissist PD variety. If you want to know what VY would be like in any kind of extended leadership role, Google the Dale Washam saga, though honestly, VY in a backup role wouldn't be able to do THAT much damage, but he sure would be a cancer and a divisive influence and distraction, and could single-handedly derail the team even in that role.

Some sociopath traits, from Wikipedia (ICD-10)

It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
Callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.

Does VY's publicly known behavior align with many of those? How about this list:
Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, as defined by the DSM-IV-TR include:[1]
Reacting to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
Taking advantage of others to reach own goals
Exaggerating own importance, achievements, and talents
Imagining unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
Requiring constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
Becoming jealous easily
Lacking empathy and disregarding the feelings of others
Being obsessed with self
Pursuing mainly selfish goals
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Becoming easily hurt and rejected
Setting goals that are unrealistic
Wanting "the best" of everything
Appearing unemotional
In addition to these symptoms, the person may also display dominance, arrogance, show superiority, and seek power.[6] The symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder can be similar to the traits of individuals with strong self-esteem and confidence; differentiation occurs when the underlying psychological structures of these traits are considered pathological. Narcissists have such an elevated sense of self-worth that they value themselves as inherently better than others. However, they have a fragile self-esteem and cannot handle criticism, and will often try to compensate for this inner fragility by belittling or disparaging others in an attempt to validate their own self-worth. It is this sadistic tendency that is characteristic of narcissism as opposed to other psychological conditions affecting level of self-worth.[7]

For comparison, Brandon Marshall of the Bears has "come out" as having Borderline PD, which often goes along with sociopathic tendencies. He's been honest about it, I would say courageous, and obviously worked hard to get better. (Most Borderline's would shoot the messenger and say YOU have it, not them.) Anyway, Marshall sure torched us, and the rest of the league But I don't see VY's behavior changing enough, since I have no idea if he's doing the work it would take, and he would just be extremely "high risk" and a distraction in the Seahawks locker room. Wise decision by PC/JS to discuss him, but NOT actually bring him in. I wouldn't be surprised if the sociopath + PD issues have been observed and catalogued by the rest of the league and found to be so profound that nobody wants to take a chance on him.

 

[olyfan63]

Signing VY for anything would be a bad decision. I'd rather see Portis get PT over him. VY Can barely handle 1 read when dropping back let alone 2...can't get through progressions for ish. He's terrible.

I agree, from my understanding - he had some mental problems which aren't easily cured. Probably still has them.

Didn't see your post first, but wrote a book there on that issue. The issue with VY wouldn't necessarily be making reads, it would be when something went wrong, he would emotionally berate and criticize others, including WR's and the OC and the Head Coach, and basically do everything but examine and acknowledge his responsibility in the breakdown. Not exactly conducive to a good problem-solving reaction in real time during a game. VY could even be "right" much of the time, but his reaction would still be toxic to the team problem-solving and learning process; not a good thing in an X's and O's strategy and adjustments, nuance-rich sport like football. But there is definitely still a time for a QB leader to demand that an OL knock the DT on his ass on the next play, and I'm sure RW does that, though probably in a disappointingly (for drama junkies) "nice and professional" way.

 

[Rat]

He has some battles with depression and other issues in the past, but shouldn't be vilified for them. If he can play, he could be useful here.

 

[TheRealDTM]

agreed. if mental problems aren't allowed go take back all of kobe's rings.

 

[warden]

Locker room problems,

Well 600 + roster moves have proven that Pete has no problem sending a guy packing if he is an issue.

 

[scutterhawk]

And note on Portis:

Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport

As Seahawks evaluate a few veteran QB options (add Vince Young to list), they do plan to re-sign Josh Portis, cut late last November.

This just isn't true, because it's already known, that Tyler Thigpen has reached an agreement with the Seahawks :stirthepot:
Mort's just throwing more busketti against the wall, and I aren't dum eenuf to get suckerd again.

 

[horns_n_hawks]

Bringing in Young wouldn't just be dumb.

It would be moronic. Maybe even moronic enough to tip team chemistry.

Ask the Texas fans, they will tell you stories of Vince telling his coaches to shut the hell up. They will tell you stories about him creating an us vs them mentality between the players and coaches.

Not to mention that the guy has the IQ of a sandflea. How exactly would this help us?

Backup QBs are actually important. Ask Steelers fans about it but it doesn't have to just be something that severe.

There have been times where a good team gets their QB hurt in a hard fought game, the next game is against a lesser team so they rest the guy to let him heal. The backup keeps the team on track for a game or two. Then the starter comes back in fully healed without nagging injuries that will affect the team through the playoffs.

We are neck and neck with the 49ers in chasing after the division, based just on last year. The rest of the teams in our division are getting better and teams like Atlanta are getting better but getting an easier schedule. Contrary to popular belief, we do not have a road to the Super Bowl paved with pillows. One or two games lost because of a freak injury can hurt us. Heck last year, one game might have been the difference between homefield throughout the playoffs.

Bringing in a guy who would lose an IQ contest to a tube of toothpaste is not going to help things.

A backup needs to do two of the three:

1. Be a possible QB in development for the future or for trades
2. Be a resource to help further develop Wilson
3. Be able and effective enough to win games if the starter goes down.

Bringing in Young would accomplish none of those 3. It wouldn't just be stupid. It would be mindblowingly stupid. Charlie Whitehurst-level stupid.

Weird, I've been a Texas fan since Major Applewhite was the QB, and I'd love to have VY here as a backup. You’d have to make it clear to him that he was coming in only as a backup, and that he’d have to compete for any spot on the team, but he has seemed to always thrive in that environment. He did great at Texas, and he never had any publicized issues there. Mack Brown has nothing but good things to say about him, even to this day. Plus, PC would be just fine with trying him out, and wouldn’t have any problems sending him packing if it didn’t work out, just look at what he did with Lendale White, one of his own players. He’s not excessively bright, but what does that really matter? He’s obviously smart enough to learn a system and play football. And he’s much more talented than most of the other options. I see they’ve stopped talking to him, for whatever reason, but I endorse the FO giving it a shot.

 

[horns_n_hawks]

Signing VY for anything would be a bad decision. I'd rather see Portis get PT over him. VY Can barely handle 1 read when dropping back let alone 2...can't get through progressions for ish. He's terrible.

I agree, from my understanding - he had some mental problems which aren't easily cured. Probably still has them.

Didn't see your post first, but wrote a book there on that issue. The issue with VY wouldn't necessarily be making reads, it would be when something went wrong, he would emotionally berate and criticize others, including WR's and the OC and the Head Coach, and basically do everything but examine and acknowledge his responsibility in the breakdown. Not exactly conducive to a good problem-solving reaction in real time during a game. VY could even be "right" much of the time, but his reaction would still be toxic to the team problem-solving and learning process; not a good thing in an X's and O's strategy and adjustments, nuance-rich sport like football. But there is definitely still a time for a QB leader to demand that an OL knock the DT on his ass on the next play, and I'm sure RW does that, though probably in a disappointingly (for drama junkies) "nice and professional" way.

This is the thing that interests me so much about this discussion. When has there been reports of him doing this to anyone other than his previous head coach? Coach Fisher obviously didn't want to start or play Vince Young, look at when his team went 0-6 and he stuck with his other QB over a guy who went 28-12 in his first 40 games? I don't think Young handled it approprately, but imagine how you would if your boss hated you but the company's owner dictated that you stay? It was a bad situation, one that I for-sure would have quit from, and one that they should have traded him out of long before it got to where it did. He didn't have any published issues with the Eagles, other than playing poorly in their system. He never quit or gave up when he was frustrated anywhere other than Tennessee, so why think he'd do it here?

 

[Sarlacc83]

I thought this has already been put to bed?

There's at least 3 more pages to go before people read the news.

 

[canfan]

[/quote] You’d have to make it clear to him that he was coming in only as a backup[/quote]

Vince and legalized pot....wouldn't that be magical? I think there are many things you'd have to make clear to this bonehead.

 

[TheRealDTM]

I don't think pot has ever been an issue for him. You guys really like to pile on a guy when he's a had problems huh?