John Clayton sets the Record Straight

[John63]

So you want to debate imaginary narratives, but not the actual plays and game?

unbelievable.

I just have a different opinion. Thats all. I see a team getting physically dominated at the los on offense and defense the actual playcall doesnt bother me. The opposing team was more physical in the trenches and that is what lost the game IMO.

Ahh so you gave up, you do not think they should have tried anything different, Hey we are a run first team, we can't run lets just loose. Once again you refuse to see the point the few times they mixed it up we moved the ball and score. Last I checked the idea is to win, not give up, or say they are beating us up. You make adjustments when they work you stick with them. PC already said they should have thrown more, so that tells you the play calling was bad. It's not a difference of opinion it is fact against fiction as the play when passing more as opposed to running factually proved that we should have passed more earlier.

We didnt RRP on the first 3 drives.

1st drive 2 4 yrd runs had us at 3rd and 2 exactly where we want to be. Pocket collapses and Wilson scrambles and throws the ball away. I dont see a problem.You cant really tell why the 3rd down failed.Wilson seemed to get jumpy early.

2nd drive.
1st play motion jet sweep right,Wilson looks right turns to throw a screen left. LT gets bumrushed back into carson and by the time the cluster uck gets straightened out the DT wrecks the play. If the Rams run that play with there talent its a genius call by wonder boy. We lose 8 yrds. 2nd down and another 4 or 5 yrd run by Carson. 3rd and 13 Wilson drops back WRs clear out the right side and Wilson doesnt hit the TE who was wide open and would have gotten 7 or 8 yrds,maybe a 1st down you cant see the field on TV. Not a bad playcall IMO.

3rd drive. 1st down run for 4 yrds good play good call.2nd run read option right. Wilson should have kept it. He would have had 4 easy yds maybe a 1st downGood call
3rd down. Blitz resulting in a sack. Who is to blame? Schotty? Fluker for blocking the LB and ignoring the RDT who wrecks the play?Davis was there, he could have stopped the LB. Britt for double teaming the LDT with Sweezy and not touching the RDT? Britt for missing a line call,Wilson for not recognizing it? I blame the ref for missing a flagrant face mask.

4th drive. 2 great calls. 2 1 st down playactiion in a row,set up by Carsons running up to that point. 1st and 10 at the 12. Another good 3 or 4 yrd run in the redzone.Another run for no gain and a 3rd and 7 bad pass by RW under pressure. FG to tie.

We shorten the game with some runs, a few breakdowns stop drives, a blown call by the refs,a few great 1st down play actions and at 7 mins left in the half we are tied. We didnt lose the game in the 1st 3 drives.

OKay still wht this as I already showed you 7 yards is not what is considered 3rd adn long it is 6 oir more. that woudl make only 3. Also you can argue all you want but in the end the HC Pete Carroll said they should have started throwing sooner, Enogh said

 

[justafan]

I just have a different opinion. Thats all. I see a team getting physically dominated at the los on offense and defense the actual playcall doesnt bother me. The opposing team was more physical in the trenches and that is what lost the game IMO.

Ahh so you gave up, you do not think they should have tried anything different, Hey we are a run first team, we can't run lets just loose. Once again you refuse to see the point the few times they mixed it up we moved the ball and score. Last I checked the idea is to win, not give up, or say they are beating us up. You make adjustments when they work you stick with them. PC already said they should have thrown more, so that tells you the play calling was bad. It's not a difference of opinion it is fact against fiction as the play when passing more as opposed to running factually proved that we should have passed more earlier.

We didnt RRP on the first 3 drives.

1st drive 2 4 yrd runs had us at 3rd and 2 exactly where we want to be. Pocket collapses and Wilson scrambles and throws the ball away. I dont see a problem.You cant really tell why the 3rd down failed.Wilson seemed to get jumpy early.

2nd drive.
1st play motion jet sweep right,Wilson looks right turns to throw a screen left. LT gets bumrushed back into carson and by the time the cluster uck gets straightened out the DT wrecks the play. If the Rams run that play with there talent its a genius call by wonder boy. We lose 8 yrds. 2nd down and another 4 or 5 yrd run by Carson. 3rd and 13 Wilson drops back WRs clear out the right side and Wilson doesnt hit the TE who was wide open and would have gotten 7 or 8 yrds,maybe a 1st down you cant see the field on TV. Not a bad playcall IMO.

3rd drive. 1st down run for 4 yrds good play good call.2nd run read option right. Wilson should have kept it. He would have had 4 easy yds maybe a 1st downGood call
3rd down. Blitz resulting in a sack. Who is to blame? Schotty? Fluker for blocking the LB and ignoring the RDT who wrecks the play?Davis was there, he could have stopped the LB. Britt for double teaming the LDT with Sweezy and not touching the RDT? Britt for missing a line call,Wilson for not recognizing it? I blame the ref for missing a flagrant face mask.

4th drive. 2 great calls. 2 1 st down playactiion in a row,set up by Carsons running up to that point. 1st and 10 at the 12. Another good 3 or 4 yrd run in the redzone.Another run for no gain and a 3rd and 7 bad pass by RW under pressure. FG to tie.

We shorten the game with some runs, a few breakdowns stop drives, a blown call by the refs,a few great 1st down play actions and at 7 mins left in the half we are tied. We didnt lose the game in the 1st 3 drives.

OKay still wht this as I already showed you 7 yards is not what is considered 3rd adn long it is 6 oir more. that woudl make only 3. Also you can argue all you want but in the end the HC Pete Carroll said they should have started throwing sooner, Enogh said

Pete says a lot of stuff.

 

[John63]

Ahh so you gave up, you do not think they should have tried anything different, Hey we are a run first team, we can't run lets just loose. Once again you refuse to see the point the few times they mixed it up we moved the ball and score. Last I checked the idea is to win, not give up, or say they are beating us up. You make adjustments when they work you stick with them. PC already said they should have thrown more, so that tells you the play calling was bad. It's not a difference of opinion it is fact against fiction as the play when passing more as opposed to running factually proved that we should have passed more earlier.

We didnt RRP on the first 3 drives.

1st drive 2 4 yrd runs had us at 3rd and 2 exactly where we want to be. Pocket collapses and Wilson scrambles and throws the ball away. I dont see a problem.You cant really tell why the 3rd down failed.Wilson seemed to get jumpy early.

2nd drive.
1st play motion jet sweep right,Wilson looks right turns to throw a screen left. LT gets bumrushed back into carson and by the time the cluster uck gets straightened out the DT wrecks the play. If the Rams run that play with there talent its a genius call by wonder boy. We lose 8 yrds. 2nd down and another 4 or 5 yrd run by Carson. 3rd and 13 Wilson drops back WRs clear out the right side and Wilson doesnt hit the TE who was wide open and would have gotten 7 or 8 yrds,maybe a 1st down you cant see the field on TV. Not a bad playcall IMO.

3rd drive. 1st down run for 4 yrds good play good call.2nd run read option right. Wilson should have kept it. He would have had 4 easy yds maybe a 1st downGood call
3rd down. Blitz resulting in a sack. Who is to blame? Schotty? Fluker for blocking the LB and ignoring the RDT who wrecks the play?Davis was there, he could have stopped the LB. Britt for double teaming the LDT with Sweezy and not touching the RDT? Britt for missing a line call,Wilson for not recognizing it? I blame the ref for missing a flagrant face mask.

4th drive. 2 great calls. 2 1 st down playactiion in a row,set up by Carsons running up to that point. 1st and 10 at the 12. Another good 3 or 4 yrd run in the redzone.Another run for no gain and a 3rd and 7 bad pass by RW under pressure. FG to tie.

We shorten the game with some runs, a few breakdowns stop drives, a blown call by the refs,a few great 1st down play actions and at 7 mins left in the half we are tied. We didnt lose the game in the 1st 3 drives.

OKay still wht this as I already showed you 7 yards is not what is considered 3rd adn long it is 6 oir more. that woudl make only 3. Also you can argue all you want but in the end the HC Pete Carroll said they should have started throwing sooner, Enogh said

Pete says a lot of stuff.

LOL of course he does, goodbye

 

[justafan]

We didnt RRP on the first 3 drives.

1st drive 2 4 yrd runs had us at 3rd and 2 exactly where we want to be. Pocket collapses and Wilson scrambles and throws the ball away. I dont see a problem.You cant really tell why the 3rd down failed.Wilson seemed to get jumpy early.

2nd drive.
1st play motion jet sweep right,Wilson looks right turns to throw a screen left. LT gets bumrushed back into carson and by the time the cluster uck gets straightened out the DT wrecks the play. If the Rams run that play with there talent its a genius call by wonder boy. We lose 8 yrds. 2nd down and another 4 or 5 yrd run by Carson. 3rd and 13 Wilson drops back WRs clear out the right side and Wilson doesnt hit the TE who was wide open and would have gotten 7 or 8 yrds,maybe a 1st down you cant see the field on TV. Not a bad playcall IMO.

3rd drive. 1st down run for 4 yrds good play good call.2nd run read option right. Wilson should have kept it. He would have had 4 easy yds maybe a 1st downGood call
3rd down. Blitz resulting in a sack. Who is to blame? Schotty? Fluker for blocking the LB and ignoring the RDT who wrecks the play?Davis was there, he could have stopped the LB. Britt for double teaming the LDT with Sweezy and not touching the RDT? Britt for missing a line call,Wilson for not recognizing it? I blame the ref for missing a flagrant face mask.

4th drive. 2 great calls. 2 1 st down playactiion in a row,set up by Carsons running up to that point. 1st and 10 at the 12. Another good 3 or 4 yrd run in the redzone.Another run for no gain and a 3rd and 7 bad pass by RW under pressure. FG to tie.

We shorten the game with some runs, a few breakdowns stop drives, a blown call by the refs,a few great 1st down play actions and at 7 mins left in the half we are tied. We didnt lose the game in the 1st 3 drives.

OKay still wht this as I already showed you 7 yards is not what is considered 3rd adn long it is 6 oir more. that woudl make only 3. Also you can argue all you want but in the end the HC Pete Carroll said they should have started throwing sooner, Enogh said

Pete says a lot of stuff.

LOL of course he does, goodbye

It was a 50/50 run pass after the 4th drive.

 

[John63]

OKay still wht this as I already showed you 7 yards is not what is considered 3rd adn long it is 6 oir more. that woudl make only 3. Also you can argue all you want but in the end the HC Pete Carroll said they should have started throwing sooner, Enogh said

Pete says a lot of stuff.

LOL of course he does, goodbye

It was a 50/50 run pass after the 4th drive.

Yes and we scored but it was too little too late, by then the defense was gassed due to being on the field too long. Like I said you can argue till your blue in the face with arguments that at best are dubious, the fact still remains your head coach said they should have started passing sooner.

 

[justafan]

Pete says a lot of stuff.

LOL of course he does, goodbye

It was a 50/50 run pass after the 4th drive.

Yes and we scored but it was too little too late, by then the defense was gassed due to being on the field too long. Like I said you can argue till your blue in the face with arguments that at best are dubious, the fact still remains your head coach said they should have started passing sooner.[/qu

You miss read that. The first 4 drives were balanced.

 

[John63]

The Seahawks were down 2 scores in the 4th qtr.

14 to 24.

Clayton arguing that throwing too much at the end of the game is a false correlation and is asinine, especially when they were far more effective throwing the whole night than running.


The defense was gassed because the offense forced the run and continued going 3-'n-out too many times.

First 3 possessions. All 3-'n-outs, 9 plays 5 yards total.


Pete Carroll, Russell Wilson, and many intelligent football people have admitted, or stated they should've thrown more.

Bro,

When Seattle scored to go up 14-10, our defense then allowed a touchdown on a 9 play 67 yard drive that took 4:31 of clock . 17-14 Cowboys.

Seattle then goes 3 and out on a -1 yard run by Carson (last run play of the game for Seattle) and two throws (5 yards to Baldwin. Incomplete deep to Lockett on 3rd and 6).

Next drive for the Cowboys was the KJ Wright pick in the end zone. Could have been PI. I thought it was okay, but I'm a defense guy and liked how he played it.

Seattle goes 3 and out again on 4 straight short passes (could have been 2nd and 4 on the first throw, but holding was called...). No runs.

Cowboys get the killer drive. Seattle answers. Onside kick sucked. Game.

Can't really blame that Seattle ran it too much when they ran it only once after their TD drive that gave them the 14-10 lead.

The D failed us in the 4th, man. Simple as that. That was the game. The 3 quarters before that when they ran it "too much", they had the lead...was it a 20 point lead and total domination? No. Could they have mixed it up more to have a better lead going into the 4th? Yes! But they ended that game passing it. That's all OP and Clayton are saying...

The D had to deal with the effect.

There was a cause.

Which was the D gassed out. Thanks to the offense going 3-'in-out 6 times, and leaving them on the field for far too long.

This.^^^^^^at least SOMEONE HERE gets it. The Offensive game plan was NOT fluid, not enough in game adjustments were made early in the game, and the sputtering Defense paid for it with their sweat (Defense was Okay, but not good enough to keep up with the Boycows attack.
You just can't hang the Defense out to dry for that long, and expect them to keep rising to the swarming challenges.

agreed and by the time they adjusted it was too late, the D was gassed. Pete Carroll admitted they should have adjusted sooner. so game over.

 

[BigMeach]

Pretty lame attempt at a hot take on Clayton's part. Lame and lazy and disingenuous, but other than that he might have a point. :stirthepot:

You are aware that you don't have to pretend to be a Seahawks fan to take part in this forum right? You can make your avatar the Bears and post as a Bears fan ... We're pretty welcoming of other teams fans.

 

[jlwaters1]

Guys IMO it all boils down to this. If the defense could have stopped a 3rd and 12 (or was it 14) QB Draw chances are we win that game. The defense needed 1 play and couldn't come through.

 

[TwistedHusky]

The defense never should have been expected to because we should have been scoring more.

I firmly believe that Carroll would be doing this crap even if he had Joe Montana as his QB. He likes to trust his defense, not demand more from his offense.

He has a process he believes in and relies on it regardless of roster.

Our defense was a weakness of the team, our offense was a strength. Our least significant players were playing on defense (especially in the secondary) and our most significant player we barely used until the 3rd quarter.

Yes we passed more in the later part of the game, because we were down by 2 scores. But we should have expected the defense would give up more points because the league average said it would and because our defense tended to give up at least the average regularly.

Expecting the defense to be better than it was became the problem. The 2nd problem was not demanding more from an offense that was better than we were using them as.

Defense only wins championships if you have a good enough defense. You cannot shoehorn a weakness into a strength. But when we were watching a team that was selling out against the run, our response was to try to get the defense to hold instead of using one of our best players to actually score the TDs we would need to bank so that when our defense gave up a score it was not a door closer.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He does often "struggle" against the blitz, but makes plays to offset the "struggle."

That is like saying you struggle to live through a tornado when 99 people died and you lived.

It is how he does OVERALL compared to the field that matters, nothing more.

You don't think there's a difference between struggling to read coverage, change the play and get the ball out on time..........and evading blitzers and making a play?

Yeah Russell's great at escaping the pocket and making a play, but that doesn't mean he doesn't struggle to identify the blitzers, get the protection called, change the play if necessary.................and then get the ball out on time against the blitz.

He is getting better at it, but he still struggles against the blitz in the traditional sense of how other great veteran QB's succeed against it, as I explained above.

In the end does it matter? I guess success is success, but Russell isn't getting any faster, and will become less and less effective at escaping the blitz. We're already seeing it.

 

[John63]

He does often "struggle" against the blitz, but makes plays to offset the "struggle."

That is like saying you struggle to live through a tornado when 99 people died and you lived.

It is how he does OVERALL compared to the field that matters, nothing more.

You don't think there's a difference between struggling to read coverage, change the play and get the ball out on time..........and evading blitzers and making a play?

Yeah Russell's great at escaping the pocket and making a play, but that doesn't mean he doesn't struggle to identify the blitzers, get the protection called, change the play if necessary.................and then get the ball out on time against the blitz.

He is getting better at it, but he still struggles against the blitz in the traditional sense of how other great veteran QB's succeed against it, as I explained above.

In the end does it matter? I guess success is success, but Russell isn't getting any faster, and will become less and less effective at escaping the blitz. We're already seeing it.

Okay so please find me a stat to prove this, Because he is top 5 against the blitz, so to me, you don't have anything but an opinion which is fine, but has no fact to support it. In fact, Brady was the worst against the blitz, ah oh he sucks/

https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/stat...sser-rating-against-blitz-in-nfl-this-season/

This is called presenting facts to support your stance, in this ca,se that you are wrong he is very good agasint the blitz.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He does often "struggle" against the blitz, but makes plays to offset the "struggle."

That is like saying you struggle to live through a tornado when 99 people died and you lived.

It is how he does OVERALL compared to the field that matters, nothing more.

You don't think there's a difference between struggling to read coverage, change the play and get the ball out on time..........and evading blitzers and making a play?

Yeah Russell's great at escaping the pocket and making a play, but that doesn't mean he doesn't struggle to identify the blitzers, get the protection called, change the play if necessary.................and then get the ball out on time against the blitz.

He is getting better at it, but he still struggles against the blitz in the traditional sense of how other great veteran QB's succeed against it, as I explained above.

In the end does it matter? I guess success is success, but Russell isn't getting any faster, and will become less and less effective at escaping the blitz. We're already seeing it.

Okay so please find me a stat to prove this, Because he is top 5 against the blitz, so to me, you don't have anything but an opinion which is fine, but has no fact to support it. In fact, Brady was the worst against the blitz, ah oh he sucks/

https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/stat...sser-rating-against-blitz-in-nfl-this-season/

THis is called presenting facts to support your stance, in this case that you are wron ghe is very good agasint the blitz.

Did you read my post? I said Russell is good against the blitz, but it's HOW he's good against it that people are challenging, including Clayton.

Escaping pressure and making broken plays downfield vs. recognizing, changing the play, protection, and getting the ball out on time.

That's all I'm saying. Both are good, just making a distinction.

 

[Scorpion05]

He does often "struggle" against the blitz, but makes plays to offset the "struggle."

That is like saying you struggle to live through a tornado when 99 people died and you lived.

It is how he does OVERALL compared to the field that matters, nothing more.

You don't think there's a difference between struggling to read coverage, change the play and get the ball out on time..........and evading blitzers and making a play?

Yeah Russell's great at escaping the pocket and making a play, but that doesn't mean he doesn't struggle to identify the blitzers, get the protection called, change the play if necessary.................and then get the ball out on time against the blitz.

He is getting better at it, but he still struggles against the blitz in the traditional sense of how other great veteran QB's succeed against it, as I explained above.

In the end does it matter? I guess success is success, but Russell isn't getting any faster, and will become less and less effective at escaping the blitz. We're already seeing it.

Where is this false stereotype coming from? It’s akin to defenses all year saying “they have to prevent Russ from getting outside of the pocket” when he remained in the pocket for most of the year

Russ’ numbers against the blitz have little to do with him scrambling away from pressure. He’s not even fast enough to do that any more. How is it that several defensive players, analysts, and coaches acknowledge Russ is great at pre-snap reads, except for some Hawks fans? Russ escaping and making a play might have explained his Blitz numbers in 2013 but definitely not in 2018, and arguably since 2015

 

[John63]

That is like saying you struggle to live through a tornado when 99 people died and you lived.

It is how he does OVERALL compared to the field that matters, nothing more.

You don't think there's a difference between struggling to read coverage, change the play and get the ball out on time..........and evading blitzers and making a play?

Yeah Russell's great at escaping the pocket and making a play, but that doesn't mean he doesn't struggle to identify the blitzers, get the protection called, change the play if necessary.................and then get the ball out on time against the blitz.

He is getting better at it, but he still struggles against the blitz in the traditional sense of how other great veteran QB's succeed against it, as I explained above.

In the end does it matter? I guess success is success, but Russell isn't getting any faster, and will become less and less effective at escaping the blitz. We're already seeing it.

Okay so please find me a stat to prove this, Because he is top 5 against the blitz, so to me, you don't have anything but an opinion which is fine, but has no fact to support it. In fact, Brady was the worst against the blitz, ah oh he sucks/

https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/stat...sser-rating-against-blitz-in-nfl-this-season/

THis is called presenting facts to support your stance, in this case that you are wron ghe is very good agasint the blitz.

Did you read my post? I said Russell is good against the blitz, but it's HOW he's good against it that people are challenging, including Clayton.

Escaping pressure and making broken plays downfield vs. recognizing, changing the play, protection, and getting the ball out on time.

That's all I'm saying. Both are good, just making a distinction.

But the problem is he is agood at both and even Clayton has said so , so if he is now trying to say the oppositie he is just trying to get clicks.