I think my season-long concern was amplified today

[AgentDib]

There's also the concern that Wilson may be hard to design a drop-and-throw package for, because of...yep...his height.

there is a concern, ahh form who? No expert I know of says that. PC does not say that, and since he has thrown straight drop backs it is just not true, he has one of the best completion % in the league from inside the pocket and drop backs.

I think you may be overreacting a little here because it sounded critical of Wilson, when it isn't. The only reason why Wilson was not drafted in the top 3 was because every football mind in the NFL had concerns about his height and whether he could play in the pocket. He has proven them wrong and we are all behind him, but you absolutely should compensate for his height when designing your plays. It is by design that Brees is able to slide side to side to utilize throwing lanes for the Saints, not the result of good fortune and coincidence.

 

[Popeyejones]

We've gotten away with the lack of a drop-and-throw package because the shots Wilson does take usually work out. Today most of them got dropped.

There's also the concern that Wilson may be hard to design a drop-and-throw package for, because of...yep...his height.

So how does Brees do it for all these years? He's only got like 1 whole inch on Russell. Is there nothing the hawks can implement from that offense and his drop back ability?

Don't think it's a just a height thing, as unlike Brees, Wilson is still pretty skittish in the pocket and shows a preference to bail on it rather than stepping into more frequently than most QBs. This might just be the way he plays though, and he has a ton of success playing the way he plays. So, one way to look at it IMO is that the lack of "drop-and-throw" packages in the Hawks offense ain't too stupid: it's maximizing their QB's strengths and minimizing his weaknesses. They're doing what the should be doing and it just didn't work out today, which hey, happens sometimes. (he's also still young and still most likely developing)

 

[Sports Hernia]

Dull-ass wants Quinn

Can't have him but they can have Bevell!

 

[noflyzone]

I think the Cardinals did a great job on defense, so give them credit. With that said, I thought losing Brandon Browner to suspension is a bigger loss than many people realize. Personally, I think the Seahawks would of won that game if Browner played.

Maxwell, Sherman, and Lane shut down the receivers today. Other than that one amazing circus touchdown catch by Floyd that got tipped (twice!), not much can be blamed on the secondary.

 

[hawkfannj]

I've been calling it the panic offense . Oh no no no ... Yes yes yes type stuff . RW cannot run around for his whole entire career trying to get guys open . Eventually that will come to an end. At some point he has to make plays from the pocket via quick slants screens etc these plays are lacking in our overall offense . I ain't hating on the kid so don't go there . Just saying this part of his game has to come together . Good Defenses are starting to shut him down. And in the playoffs are there is is good Defenses . Eh just rambling !!

 

[Sarlacc83]

We've gotten away with the lack of a drop-and-throw package because the shots Wilson does take usually work out. Today most of them got dropped.

There's also the concern that Wilson may be hard to design a drop-and-throw package for, because of...yep...his height.

So how does Brees do it for all these years? He's only got like 1 whole inch on Russell. Is there nothing the hawks can implement from that offense and his drop back ability?

The offensive line creates passing lines by block lineman out of the way. This allows for Brees to throw to his routes.


As for Absolut's comment, I agree, but I stated in another thread that I'm worried this is by Carroll's design. Our defense is predicated on causing long drives in which the number of possible mistakes is increased, and as such, the converse is that the offense needs to be quick and powerful - good with the killshot. The fear of turnovers also leads to the lack of use in the middle of the field which further eliminates potential routes. The offense worked last year because the Read-Option forced teams to play in close, but not so much this year. I honestly don't believe that Bevell is dumb enough to close vast gaps of the field.

 

[plyka]

We've gotten away with the lack of a drop-and-throw package because the shots Wilson does take usually work out. Today most of them got dropped.

There's also the concern that Wilson may be hard to design a drop-and-throw package for, because of...yep...his height.

So how does Brees do it for all these years? He's only got like 1 whole inch on Russell. Is there nothing the hawks can implement from that offense and his drop back ability?

Don't think it's a just a height thing, as unlike Brees, Wilson is still pretty skittish in the pocket and shows a preference to bail on it rather than stepping into more frequently than most QBs. This might just be the way he plays though, and he has a ton of success playing the way he plays. So, one way to look at it IMO is that the lack of "drop-and-throw" packages in the Hawks offense ain't too stupid: it's maximizing their QB's strengths and minimizing his weaknesses. They're doing what the should be doing and it just didn't work out today, which hey, happens sometimes. (he's also still young and still most likely developing)

Totally agree here. Wilson still needs experience. Watching Brady for instance, drop back into his pocket, allow his WRs to get open over the middle of the field, and stay focused down field while the rush is going right by him --compare that to Wilson when he is in the pocket. After about 2.5 seconds he gets those happy feet and is looking for a way to get out of the pocket, even when it's not necessary. The Cardinals sacraficed pressure on the QB for containment. There were many times when Wilson had a perfect pocket but after 2.5 seconds took his eyes off the WRs and was looking to escape from the pocket --but due to the containment, there was no place to run.

This is not on Wilson, he will learn to have more patience. Wilson has great patience when he is outside the pocket and moving because it takes more time for defenders to get to him. But more importantly, it is the OC and his playcalling. When you see this happen you MUST ADJUST. The Carinals are telling their edge rushers to contain instead of pressure --the only pressure is coming from the blitz or the interior of the line. So what do you do? Run quick pass plays to your TEs, run quick curls and outs to your WRs. Why just run go routes all over the field? They are playing man to man while giving you time in the pocket, you must take advantage. And the predictability of the offense has to stop.

In the end, I still think they do not trust Russell Wilson as much as they should, and they are too predictable on offense. It's called a freakin screen, bubble screen, horizontal routes over the middle of the field, quick outs. It is almost impossible to man cover 1 v 1 when you have your WRs running complicated routes 5-15 yarsd down field, and you also have your back swinging out of the back field looking for passes.

The biggest piece missing on this team is a great offensive mind able to adjust. Bevell is just not that. What has he done in his career?

 

[RolandDeschain]

High five, Absolut.

 

[brimsalabim]

"watching Brady drop back in the pocket"

umm... yea ...did you happen to notice the pocket? We can't design a "pocket passing offense for Russ because there is no pocket to pass from! There are a myriad of debatable reasons why our offensive line play is bad but there is no getting around the fact that it is so.

 

[formido]

Seattle has shown since at least Tennessee that they can throw short and intermediate regularly if they want. Hardly any receivers ran short routes yesterday. Lockette's slant was one of the only. Wilson wasn't passing up these receivers, they didn't exist. It's easy to see when a short route is the first or second read. Those plays weren't happening, and they should have been.

 

[Anthony!]

So between my friends and I we have been at every home game to date this year, and we have all been plotting the offensive plays called. I have also recorded every game and between that and some analysis available on the internet I have been able to plot most of the plays no the road too. Here are some interesting things of note:

for the purposes of this we will compare NO and before, to the SF game on the road, then to the NY and then to the AZ at home

quick hitters - slants, picks, quick crosses.
From NO and before the number of quick hitters - slants, picks, quick crosses, to the SF game was a decrease of 78%
In the NY game there was only a decrease of 60% form NO and before levels
IN the AZ game they saw a decrease of 84% from NO and before levels.

Screens
From NO and before to SF game a decrease of 65%
From NO and before compared to NY game a decrease of 35%
From NO and before compared to AZ game a decrease of 82%

Intermediate passes
From NO and before to SF game a decrease of 52%
From NO and before compared to NY game a decrease of 42%
From NO and before compared to AZ game a decrease of 90%

Basically we have gone form a team utilizing everything to a team that is basically run or throw long. Usually even on long plays if its not there the WR cut it off, leaving them wide open in the intermediate routes, but in this game it only happened on the one long scoring drive. That all. Our play calling has become stale and predictable, and any time they score it is because they stop and let the players play.

 

[CANHawk]

I'm not a "Bevell hater", and generally don't like throwing any one guy under the bus, but I can admit it's frustrating to watch a Bevell called game sometimes. What makes it painful is that he HAS made adjustments and HAD done some out of the box things in the past. He's done read options, flea flickers, reverse passes with great success (and more regularity than you'd expect for thak kind of shit) and he seemingly effectively adopted a short/quick hit passing attack; quick slants, bubble screens, quick outs, comebacks, etc. at some point in the middle of the season.

But then you see games like yesterday where he did NOTHING but the same old shit he came into the game with. Run right at them...stuffed. Throw the bomb... defended. Run right at them again...stuffed. Punt. Rinse. Repeat. It was like watching Ralph Wiggum call a game on Super Intendo.

I whole heartedly DO NOT believe in coordinators "playing possum" with their playcalling going into the playoffs, but looking at these dog shit, plain vanillia lame ass game plans the past few weeks, I'm almost starting to consider it a possibility...

 

[Anonymous]

We saw a defensive scheme from Arizona that we haven't had to deal with to this point. Russell said in his presser today that they weren't doing anything we weren't prepared for, but it sure gave us fits.

They we dropping the DE's back into coverage to disrupt the TE's which meant Russell had to wait too long for those plays to develop. Throws to the tight ends are a staple for us and a requirement for our offense to succeed. Not getting the run to work meant play action wasn't going to either. Give the Cards credit, they did their homework.

I think that drop-back passing plays should be a part of the O as well. I also think that we had some great special teams fake-play opportunities we didn't take either. Like the "doinked" FG play for example. Would have loved to see Jon Ryan toss a pass to Willson peeling off of the left end. Unlike Maragos, Ryan can throw.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

None of your criticisms are new.

Pete, John and Bevell knew that our small receiver core with average speed have a hard time getting separation and off of press coverage. They also knew that teams, especially in our division have figured out how to contain Wilson's explosiveness..........by slow edge rushing and keeping him contained.

Their solution to teams being overly aggressive against our offense was to go pay a ton of cash for Percy Harvin, who would force the likes of the Niners, Cards and Rams to back off or else get gashed for 50 yard TD runs and quick screens, reverses and quick passes.

Fact: You can have as many creative plays dialed up as you want, but if you don't have the personnel to execute all the stuff you want Bevell to call against these good aggressive defenses, then it's going to fail anyway.

 

[chris98251]

I was watching that kick last night on the late sports broadcast, the laces were faceing Haushka, that can skew a kick badly.

 

[jamsomatic]

None of your criticisms are new.

Pete, John and Bevell knew that our small receiver core with average speed have a hard time getting separation and off of press coverage. They also knew that teams, especially in our division have figured out how to contain Wilson's explosiveness..........by slow edge rushing and keeping him contained.

Their solution to teams being overly aggressive against our offense was to go pay a ton of cash for Percy Harvin, who would force the likes of the Niners, Cards and Rams to back off or else get gashed for 50 yard TD runs and quick screens, reverses and quick passes.

Fact: You can have as many creative plays dialed up as you want, but if you don't have the personnel to execute all the stuff you want Bevell to call against these good aggressive defenses, then it's going to fail anyway.

lol. thanks for trying to help these guys understand. Hahaha. So much easier to just scream for Bevell's head. Lol.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

None of your criticisms are new.

Pete, John and Bevell knew that our small receiver core with average speed have a hard time getting separation and off of press coverage. They also knew that teams, especially in our division have figured out how to contain Wilson's explosiveness..........by slow edge rushing and keeping him contained.

Their solution to teams being overly aggressive against our offense was to go pay a ton of cash for Percy Harvin, who would force the likes of the Niners, Cards and Rams to back off or else get gashed for 50 yard TD runs and quick screens, reverses and quick passes.

Fact: You can have as many creative plays dialed up as you want, but if you don't have the personnel to execute all the stuff you want Bevell to call against these good aggressive defenses, then it's going to fail anyway.

lol. thanks for trying to help these guys understand. Hahaha. So much easier to just scream for Bevell's head. Lol.

Because when the offense looks like crap, it's easier to just chalk it up to playcalling...........as opposed to a bigger systemic problem with the offense. In our case, a WR core and O-Line that's getting beat 80% of the time.

 

[jamsomatic]

None of your criticisms are new.

Pete, John and Bevell knew that our small receiver core with average speed have a hard time getting separation and off of press coverage. They also knew that teams, especially in our division have figured out how to contain Wilson's explosiveness..........by slow edge rushing and keeping him contained.

Their solution to teams being overly aggressive against our offense was to go pay a ton of cash for Percy Harvin, who would force the likes of the Niners, Cards and Rams to back off or else get gashed for 50 yard TD runs and quick screens, reverses and quick passes.

Fact: You can have as many creative plays dialed up as you want, but if you don't have the personnel to execute all the stuff you want Bevell to call against these good aggressive defenses, then it's going to fail anyway.

lol. thanks for trying to help these guys understand. Hahaha. So much easier to just scream for Bevell's head. Lol.

Because when the offense looks like crap, it's easier to just chalk it up to playcalling...........as opposed to a bigger systemic problem with the offense. In our case, a WR core and O-Line that's getting beat 80% of the time.

Yes. The best is when people who hate Bevell hate him for different reasons but still love the hate even though they differ in diametrically opposed ways. Lol.

And thanks for changing your gross avatar lol

 

[kearly]

Great post Absolut.

 

[bellingerga]

My one not-so-random-thought

I've been saying for months that this offense has nothing resembling a legitimate drop back passing game and it was brutal today. Saying this usually just gets me labeled as a "Bevell hater" but all year long this team has lacked ability to drop and throw, and I think its the biggest problem facing this team going into the play offs. When was the last time you saw Russ just take the snap, make his drop, and find an open receiver - let alone one between the hashes? His numbers are a bit skewed in his favor because he's so damn good at scrambling and finding open guys, because we rarely see him find someone open quickly.

I've long thought Bevell has not put together a good drop back package and struggles mightily against good blitzing teams. Today we saw both of those bite the Hawks in the ass. IMO, there's a total lack of creativity we saw at the end of last year, and a REALLY poor blitz package. We struggle to move the ball against "tough" teams that punch us in the jaw and come after us. If you go back to week 1, and look at, Houston, STL, TB, SF, now Arizona, they all gave us fits in a similar manner. Fortunately, we were able to make a few big plays to get things turned into our favor against Houston and TB.

I think it's safe to say there's a blueprint out there to at least give our offense a lot of trouble. Our receivers aren't as good as we'd like to think when it comes to route running, and so far Russ isn't quite the passer that can "throw guys open." I hate that I have to qualify that statement by saying I love the kid and everything he does for this team, but right now that's my take on things as it has been all year. we're finally playing some better teams now though, instead of teams like Houston, TB and STL that weren't quite sure how to win games at that point in the season. The rest of the season is going to get a hell of a lot tougher than it was when we could come back against teams, so hopefully we see some creativity and not just "This is what we do on offense" the rest of the year.

Queue the snarky replies.

I'm right there with you Absolut. No snarky replies here, I just agree.