How do we fix the run defense?

[CortezKennedyfan]

Results for rushing attempts-yards this season against the Hawks...

Week 1: DeAngelo Williams 17-86
Week 2: Frank Gore 9-16
Week 3: Maurice Jones-Drew 19-43
Week 4: Arian Foster 27-102
Week 5: Trent Richardson 18-56
Week 6: Chris Johnson 12-33
Week 7: Rashard Mendenhall 13-22
Week 8: Zac Stacy 26-134
Week 9: Mike James 28-158

The last two weeks have been an absolute nightmare. With our pass rushers, and our LOB back there, we are good against most passing offenses but if this...which used to be a strength becomes an achilles heel....we are screwed.

Questions:

1) What the hell has happened the last two weeks?

2) How do we fix it?

Today Coach Carroll said Malcolm Smith could see "elevated opportunities" in the linebacker rotation to help keep the unit at its best.

To me, it goes back to the O-line problems, not running the ball enough (in the Rams game) and thus the D being on the field too long.

Thoughts?

 

[twisted_steel2]

Reading between the lines of what Carroll has said, and some comments on twitter, it just seems like our front 7 is getting sloppy and undisciplined in their gap assignments.

We got the talent to clean it up and do better, I think it's just discipline at this point.

 

[SDHawk]

Interesting correlation. BWags was DNP wk 6 and 7. KJ was playing middle backer for those games. The run defense fell apart after BWags returned from his ankle sprain. My guess is that Wagner isn't 100% and is responsible for a few of those missed assignments/tackles. Can anyone with All 22 confirm?

 

[blkhwk]

Its completely assignment related, which has been sloppy IMO.

Also add in not having much of a lead, if any, allows teams to keep their entire playbook open. The Tampa game could have gotten ugly early had Seattle went down and got 7 instead of an int on the first possession. Look at the number of carries in the closer games.

The lack of offensive TOP is really hurting the defense.

It appeared that the defense was trying to make big plays in the 2nd quarter to try and get 'em back in the game. The second half, they played a much more disciplined game vs. the run.

Malcolm Smith is better than Bruce as an LB.

 

[kidhawk]

Reading between the lines of what Carroll has said, and some comments on twitter, it just seems like our front 7 is getting sloppy and undisciplined in their gap assignments.

We got the talent to clean it up and do better, I think it's just discipline at this point.

I do think that is what is happening, but I'm not 100% convinced there isn't an underlying cause. Personally I think we need to do two things and if we do them both we'll see a tremendous upswing in our run defense stats

1) First and foremost, we need to sustain drives on the offense. A tired defense may have the legs to play, but can quickly lose that instantaneous judgement that is necessary to find yourself in the exact right place to make plays.

2) The other thing, I think this defense is so focused on getting the ball, that sometimes they spend too much effort in trying to jar it loose and not enough time in just wrapping them up for the tackle and keeping them to a short gain.

 

[seahawks08]

It boils down to do your job first before over doing or over thinking stuff. Teams have game tapes where they see tendencies and build trap plays accordingly. TB was constantly shifting their Oline after lining up if you look closely, that makes our D line shuffle and before they settle down, the ball gets hiked. Those are trap plays basically and if we are not disciplined enough to fill the gaps, they can gash up to the second or third level. If you notice, because of ET's speed we could stop some but he is manning the whole field. So if you remember the game in SFO last year, this is exactly the same thing that happened. To stop this, you have to hit them hard and let them know that it is going to hurt, then they will be more shy to run those plays. Thats exactly we did to 49ers when they played here at Clink last year and this year. The key however is not to have the defense in long and grind drives, then the players are hurting and tired and sometimes not able to react or play with that level of intensity the Pete always wants them to play in.

Over pursuit, not having gap discipline, defense being on the field for long and the mindset of considering the opponent easy mentally can all play a factor.

 

[hawk45]

I think kidhawk nailed it, poor discipline is part of, but not the entire problem. There may be something underneath. I mean I suppose it's possible that out of the clear blue sky, after being coached the same way and playing well against the run for 6 games, the LBs just all fall to crap at the same time, but it just seems unlikely to me unless there's something tying it together.

Anemic offense, Wagz v KJ, Malcom Smith being on the sidelines, these are all plausible IMO.

 

[HawkFan72]

Wagner and Irvin were both horrible in run support Sunday. When 2/3 of your LB group are doing terrible, you are going to see big run totals like the last 2 weeks.

 

[DavidSeven]

I wouldn't be surprised if St. Louis noticed something on tape and then targeted certain players in the run game. I think someone might have mentioned Avril and Irvin as likely targets. Maybe Tampa just copied what St. Louis did.

I don't think it has much to do with the offense at all TBH. In fact, I think the opposite might be true. The defense can't get off the field, and it's limiting the opportunities that the offense has. This was especially true of the St. Louis game and partially explains Marshawn's limited carries (as much as people would like to blame solely Bevell).

 

[CortezKennedyfan]

Well if you look at our OT games, our Rams last second goal line win, and the loss, clearly running the ball 20-25 times is what teams will be doing from now on against the Hawks.

 

[Scottemojo]

Wagner and Irvin were both horrible in run support Sunday. When 2/3 of your LB group are doing terrible, you are going to see big run totals like the last 2 weeks.

Avril got run over a few times as well, Mcdonald had some bad plays, Bryant got trapped more than once.

 

[hawk45]

Well if you look at our OT games, our Rams last second goal line win, and the loss, clearly running the ball 20-25 times is what teams will be doing from now on against the Hawks.

TBH, if that's what teams do, I'm okay with it. In the Bucs game we gave, via turnover, more opportunities to their offense. In the Rams game, despite the ineptitude of the run D, we still limited scoring pretty effectively. Sooner or later the QB will have to make a play, and our pass D is still on point.

Edit: I'm less comfortable with it against teams not playing their backup QB

 

[CortezKennedyfan]

Bleacher Report Touched on it with nice analysis and photos:


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1838 ... nd-the-run

 

[DavidSeven]

Wagner and Irvin were both horrible in run support Sunday. When 2/3 of your LB group are doing terrible, you are going to see big run totals like the last 2 weeks.

Avril got run over a few times as well, Mcdonald had some bad plays, Bryant got trapped more than once.

Would definitely be interested to know if the opposing blocking schemes are funneling the action toward Avril and Irvin (or any other player, in particular).

 

[HawkFan72]

I wouldn't be surprised if St. Louis noticed something on tape and then targeted certain players in the run game. I think someone might have mentioned Avril and Irvin as likely targets. Maybe Tampa just copied what St. Louis did.

This wouldn't surprise me at all. Which means those players either need to get better or we need to do something different. Because every team is going to be doing the same thing from here on out until we stop it.

 

[Wartooth]

Pete said people aren't wrapping up the runner.
Trying hard to pop the ball loose instead of tackling properly.
He said they were going to get back to fundamentals.
Atlanta has no running game to speak of 32 overall.
I'd hate to see S. Jackson get going this week!
So I hope Pete's right.

 

[Tical21]

Interesting thought, Wagner coming back also coincided with Smith going out of the lineup. To be honest, that is really reaching at straws, and I don't think any of the personnel is the problem, but it may be worth looking at if the trend continues. To be brutally honest, I think we didn't come to the stadium all jacked up to stop Mike James and Zac Stacy. We're a team of young guys. It is logical to think they get up for the bigger teams/names.

The second thought I have is, who cares? We need to stop the pass. Running teams don't score big points. Adrian Peterson, one of the best in yards per game in NFL history, has rarely had a winning record. Who cares if you can't stop the run? Good teams don't run anyways. As long as our front seven plays well against the pass, which is why Irvin, Wagner, Avril, etc. are here, I don't see a major problem.

 

[Starrman44]

Pete said people aren't wrapping up the runner.
Trying hard to pop the ball loose instead of tackling properly.
He said they were going to get back to fundamentals.
Atlanta has no running game to speak of 32 overall.
I'd hate to see S. Jackson get going this week!
So I hope Pete's right.

Yep, I think they are going for the forced fumble. It's supposed to be the first guy in secures the tackle, the second, third, fourth, etc., rip the ball.

In regards to Steven Jackson, it seems like we do a lot better against bigger backs. Stacy and James are both on the smaller end. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it kind of reminds me of our small weakness against smaller faster WR's (may be more of a perception thing, I don't know).

We kind of built ourselves to compete against the bigger WR's and RB's in our division.

I don't think we are as bad off as others seem to think. I don't think Wagz is 100%. I also think our D is a little gassed.

Really, more than anything, when I watch the TB game I see some unfortunate things (like the INT's which Wilson has been good at limiting, a horrific PI call, and a desperate TB team calling unusual plays - one of which Wagz read beautifully and mistimed his jump). I think we played better than first glance, it was just kind of a comedy of errors for a while like the Tennessee game. We have things to clean up, but I have confidence we will.

TL/DR - We're going to be fine. Need to clean things up. End note: I told my wife I think we are going to have a game in which we put everything together and we curb stomp somebody.

 

[CortezKennedyfan]

Interesting thought, Wagner coming back also coincided with Smith going out of the lineup. To be honest, that is really reaching at straws, and I don't think any of the personnel is the problem, but it may be worth looking at if the trend continues. To be brutally honest, I think we didn't come to the stadium all jacked up to stop Mike James and Zac Stacy. We're a team of young guys. It is logical to think they get up for the bigger teams/names.

The second thought I have is, who cares? We need to stop the pass. Running teams don't score big points. Adrian Peterson, one of the best in yards per game in NFL history, has rarely had a winning record. Who cares if you can't stop the run? Good teams don't run anyways. As long as our front seven plays well against the pass, which is why Irvin, Wagner, Avril, etc. are here, I don't see a major problem.

St Louis and Tampa almost beat us.

I see a major problem.

 

[Sac]

We run, we're a good team...