Frank Clark's Police Report (For Off Field Discussion)

[lukerguy]

If you've ever had a wife, child, or sister hit by a man, you know the anger this type of topic can create within you. I'll cheer for the team, not the player. I also believe in restoration and second chances. I hope this kid learns from this, experiences forgiveness and helps make Seattle a better place.

 

[hawknation2015]

If you've ever had a wife, child, or sister hit by a man, you know the anger this type of topic can create within you. I'll cheer for the team, not the player. I also believe in restoration and second chances. I hope this kid learns from this, experiences forgiveness and helps make Seattle a better place.

:13:

Great post.

 

[TheWebHead]

the media evolution in covering this issue post Ray Rice has its positives and negatives. The scrutiny I would hope would have a deterrent effect on players beyond legal fears now, and the bar where teams would consider acquiring or retaining someone with that stain in their history is raised so their numbers in the NFL will diminish, but the downside is that there seems to be a desire to banish anyone charged with domestic abuse from every seeking employment anywhere again, which has negative repercussions for anyone charged with crimes. I think if you want to "save" people, giving them second chances after they pay a penalty, which Clark did via the courts and getting kicked off Michigan, is a good thing.

Also, part of the NFL's response to this issue should be a expert evaluation of criminal activity of those declaring for the draft, from a league and not team level, where these people with background in the field can talk to prosecutors, law enforcement, counselors and witnesses and know the questions to ask to make a proper evaluation. John Schneider is not an expert in the field of criminal justice, spousal abuse, etc.. he's a football evaluator. I wish he would have prefaced his lack of legal or investigative expertise when commenting on Clark and avoided proclamations of innocence or other sides to stories.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Sounds to me like there was a fight. It's that simple.

this is what it sounded like to me...nowhere near the ray rice situation where he just decked her.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Im all for second chances and we don't know the full story so who am I to judge.

I'll cheer for the player and team. Those that are offended I find some what hypocritical as they are picking/choosing who and when to be offended. There are other hawks with issues in the past fwiw.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

He was hired to do a job and if he does it, then I don't care.

I don't even understand why I am supposed to care.

It's a matter of association. The NFL hiring convicted killers to play football would obviously be off the table because of the message it would send about the kind of social behaviors the NFL does and doesn't condone. The NFL has decided to place domestic violence in the same category, even if it is a lower offense. I agree with their decision to do so. What I don't agree is

a) That this is the most egregious or one-sided case of DV in view

b) That it's part of a pattern that will most likely continue in the future

c) That second chances shouldn't be granted by the NFL in such cases as the above

d) That the media is expressing the case properly.

 

[Our Man in Chicago]

Ugh. Terrible looks all around.

I'm certainly no Erie County investigator; none of us is. Yet as a fan poised to cheer this man on in a neutral situation, I have somewhat of a stake in the matter, if only a personal one.

Based on what I can see, nothing that happened on that day in that hotel room presented a serious threat to Frank Clark, and yet he responded with a strong degree of force towards a woman potentially a third his size. Furthermore, any potential drunkenness on his part certainly does not excuse his actions - it makes matters worse.

Some of the ethos in this this thread is directly evocative of fellow Seahawks fans 13 years ago when faced with news about Jerramy Stevens' draft and his further unsavory personal matters. It's also the same cadence we heard from Vikings fans regarding Adrian Peterson and Ravens fans regarding Ray Rice.

What's the difference, honestly, between Clark and Peterson/Rice? A few years of age and pro status. That's it. There is pictorial evidence and dodgy policework in all three instances. The video evidence in the latter matter is more visceral, certainly, but it only serves to animate a similar situation. Do any of you really want to read a headline screaming "New Video Evidence In Clark Matter" right now?

At some point, cognitive dissonance should lead to a re-examination of facts. John Schneider pretty obviously did not succeed in this task, and his uncharacteristic PR blunders have made it worse.

Compounding matters: it's the offseason, there's nothing to talk about other than A Scumbag That Seattle Drafted. Moral high-horsing is easy to sell to the public, and John Schneider should have realized in the past year - hand-in-glove - that the NFL is different now than it has been in the past. The boys' club/cabal of powerful silence is clearly not what it used to be. But that's a good thing. That's a good thing.

A sad situation. I'm not sure how this gets straightened out.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Ugh. Terrible looks all around.

I'm certainly no Erie County investigator; none of us is. Yet as a fan poised to cheer this man on in a neutral situation, I have somewhat of a stake in the matter, if only a personal one.

Based on what I can see, nothing that happened on that day in that hotel room presented a serious threat to Frank Clark, and yet he responded with a strong degree of force towards a woman potentially a third his size. Furthermore, any potential drunkenness on his part certainly does not excuse his actions - it makes matters worse.

Some of the ethos in this this thread is directly evocative of fellow Seahawks fans 13 years ago when faced with news about Jerramy Stevens' draft and his further unsavory personal matters. It's also the same cadence we heard from Vikings fans regarding Adrian Peterson and Ravens fans regarding Ray Rice.

What's the difference, honestly, between Clark and Peterson/Rice? A few years of age and pro status. That's it. There is pictorial evidence and dodgy policework in all three instances. The video evidence in the latter matter is more visceral, certainly, but it only serves to animate a similar situation. Do any of you really want to read a headline screaming "New Video Evidence In Clark Matter" right now?

At some point, cognitive dissonance should lead to a re-examination of facts. John Schneider pretty obviously did not succeed in this task, and his uncharacteristic PR blunders have made it worse.

Compounding matters: it's the offseason, there's nothing to talk about other than a scumbag that Seattle drafted. Moral high-horsing is easy to sell to the public, and John Schneider should have realized in the past year - hand-in-glove - that the NFL is different now than it has been in the past. The boys' club/cabal of powerful silence is clearly not what it used to be. But that's a good thing. That's a good thing.

A sad situation. I'm not sure how this gets straightened out.

AP and Ray Rice were WAY WAY worse..did you see the images and video in both cases AND the circumstances...AP went off on a defensless kid FFS and Ray Rice KNOCKED OUT his girl and then drug her body around. Not to mention in both they were the aggressors and obv started the violence first

 

[Our Man in Chicago]

The Seattle Times article is pretty harsh, friend. The two female witnesses can safely be called neutral, even if Hurt's relatives cannot. It doesn't read like a hit piece. Hurt appears to have been forcefully thrown onto a wall and then the ground - potentially with the aid of a fist - and might have been jumped on or knocked out very briefly. Even the best-case scenario is not a pleasant picture.

The neighbors had heard enough through the wall to knock on Clark's door - of their own volition - before they saw anything.

It's an ugly scene. We can agree on that, right?

 

[Our Man in Chicago]

I'm not trying to concern-troll or get anyone's goat, by the way. We all love our team.

 

[Exittium]

Ugh. Terrible looks all around.

I'm certainly no Erie County investigator; none of us is. Yet as a fan poised to cheer this man on in a neutral situation, I have somewhat of a stake in the matter, if only a personal one.

Based on what I can see, nothing that happened on that day in that hotel room presented a serious threat to Frank Clark, and yet he responded with a strong degree of force towards a woman potentially a third his size. Furthermore, any potential drunkenness on his part certainly does not excuse his actions - it makes matters worse.

Some of the ethos in this this thread is directly evocative of fellow Seahawks fans 13 years ago when faced with news about Jerramy Stevens' draft and his further unsavory personal matters. It's also the same cadence we heard from Vikings fans regarding Adrian Peterson and Ravens fans regarding Ray Rice.

What's the difference, honestly, between Clark and Peterson/Rice? A few years of age and pro status. That's it. There is pictorial evidence and dodgy policework in all three instances. The video evidence in the latter matter is more visceral, certainly, but it only serves to animate a similar situation. Do any of you really want to read a headline screaming "New Video Evidence In Clark Matter" right now?

At some point, cognitive dissonance should lead to a re-examination of facts. John Schneider pretty obviously did not succeed in this task, and his uncharacteristic PR blunders have made it worse.

Compounding matters: it's the offseason, there's nothing to talk about other than A Scumbag That Seattle Drafted. Moral high-horsing is easy to sell to the public, and John Schneider should have realized in the past year - hand-in-glove - that the NFL is different now than it has been in the past. The boys' club/cabal of powerful silence is clearly not what it used to be. But that's a good thing. That's a good thing.

A sad situation. I'm not sure how this gets straightened out.

See this post.. well lets start here:

Based on what I can see, nothing that happened on that day in that hotel room presented a serious threat to Frank Clark,

Agreed to an extent.. up until she bit his nose with enough force to draw blood and leave some skin hanging..
But then you do what the media has been doing and thats focusing purely on a Him vs Her, HE vs SHE, MALE vs "harmless female" (even though she openly admits she's a hot head instigated it and bit him and he didn't grab her throat etc etc etc) and then say this:

and yet he responded with a strong degree of force towards a woman potentially a third his size. Furthermore, any potential drunkenness on his part certainly does not excuse his actions - it makes matters worse.

Which leads us to.. what A LOT of people seemingly keep ignoring or choosing not to do and thats

re-examination of facts

though in this thread I believe rocket has given us the sources to look at ourselves. Which I have, which is why I'm scratching my head at half the comments in this thread, how many of you have actually clicked the links and read the police report and compared it to the articles, and how many have just read what other have said and just decided respond with out actually reading the material provided ..

 

[rideaducati]

The interesting thing I find about the whole thing is why she wasn't charged with domestic violence? From what I gather she threw at least 2 things at him and bit his nose. Does that not count as physical violence?

She threw a remote control at him. That's not going to get you charged with DV. She bit his nose while he was choking her against a wall. C'mon, man.


EDIT: I should also say that I had completely reserved judgement in this case until I read the police report. I simply didn't know enough about it, and have seen enough recent examples of media reports not matching police reports/what actually happened.

I don't know how anyone could read that police report and not interpret it as incredibly clear case of domestic violence, TBH. You have physical evidence, you have pictures, you have witness testimony. I don't know what else anybody would be looking for.

How is it possible for his nose to be bitten if he was choking her against the wall? Does she have the neck of a giraffe? Niner fan logic escapes me, please explain.

 

[Our Man in Chicago]

I'm not trying to concern-troll or get anyone's goat, by the way. We all love our team.

concern troll is best troll.

As North Korea is Best Korea? :lol:

 

[Rocket]

I was given this by someone who felt intimidated... it bears on the crime and on an alleged double standard.
PLEASE lets not bring up sexual preference and try, for a while, to ignore that aspect.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/wnba--usa- ... 51603.html

 

[KiwiHawk]

Quite frankly, it;s not our job to interpret the police report and guess at what happened, and it's not the NFL's job to do so either. It's a police matter and the police have dealt with it.

 

[Hawkfan77]

I personally feel that JS mismanaged his explanation to the media. He should have taken as much time as neccessary to explain to them why he thought it was the right thing to do, instead of giving vague answers and copping out to the media's witch hunt philosophy by saying Clark never hit her instead of doing the more proper thing and playing the 2nd chances angle. JS is only setting himself up to be an easy target of scrutiny.

But I don't think it will matter much. This will likely be a forgotten topic by October, unless Clark has another incident, of course.

I hope so. Reports are coming out that the team didn't interview any witnesses about the incident, which makes it sound like we took his word for it and ignored the police report/photos.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/05/seattl ... estigation


http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seah ... raft-pick/

There are not "reports" coming out, it was one report that everyone is now citing. One report from Geoff Baker claiming the Hawks didn't talk to two "witnesses" who didn't actually witness anything.

Schneider said they conducted interviews with multiple parties that they will keep confidential and thats how it's going to stay. If you don't believe, fine. But trusting Geoff Baker, who has a history of stirring up garbage for the sake of selling papers most likely isn't the wisest of moves especially when it concerns such a poorly written and vetted article.

 

[Hawkfan77]

If Geoff Baker is writing it, I'm not reading it. That's all.

 

[mikeak]

Haha, just stop. Did you read anything anyone posted or pick out what you wanted to argue? SHE said he never grabbed her by the throat. And fact is every damn man drunk or sober will get physical in one way or another if a female bit them in the nose hard enough to draw blood.

Now like most idc wtf he's done off the field. Its been cleared up move the hell on. The only reason this is being stirred up could be how JS handled it, but let me ask you all this. Would it be the same or different if say the Patriots or Cowboys drafted him? A great player, and physical freak. Or is the media all butthurt because Seattle (the team the media has a love/hate fest with) got possibly one hell of a steal in the draft, and the only way they can accept it is by destroying someone's image/career before it even has a second chance to take off.

[/quote][/quote]


I read everything. I elected to NOT ignore the fact that victims usually protects those that hit them. I elected not to ignore that stating the truth could remove a future paycheck for that woman. I elected to believe that two young kids aren't coherced to lying.

Also I wrote throat / t-shirt. Both agreed that she ended up on the floor. Did you miss that part??? So your opinion is since he was drunk he can react uncontrollable and it is her fault for throwing such a feared item as a remote? Got it

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I personally feel that JS mismanaged his explanation to the media. He should have taken as much time as neccessary to explain to them why he thought it was the right thing to do, instead of giving vague answers and copping out to the media's witch hunt philosophy by saying Clark never hit her instead of doing the more proper thing and playing the 2nd chances angle. JS is only setting himself up to be an easy target of scrutiny.

But I don't think it will matter much. This will likely be a forgotten topic by October, unless Clark has another incident, of course.

I hope so. Reports are coming out that the team didn't interview any witnesses about the incident, which makes it sound like we took his word for it and ignored the police report/photos.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/05/seattl ... estigation


http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seah ... raft-pick/

There are not "reports" coming out, it was one report that everyone is now citing. One report from Geoff Baker claiming the Hawks didn't talk to two "witnesses" who didn't actually witness anything.

Schneider said they conducted interviews with multiple parties that they will keep confidential and thats how it's going to stay. If you don't believe, fine. But trusting Geoff Baker, who has a history of stirring up garbage for the sake of selling papers most likely isn't the wisest of moves especially when it concerns such a poorly written and vetted article.

Now it's all making complete sense thanks for the heads up.

 

[rideaducati]

If people want to nail this guy for domestic abuse, it seems like a witch hunt. Those pictures don't look like he punched her or choked her. It looks like he grabbed her shirt and tried to hold her away from him.

Some of you guys may not believe that a small woman can do any kind of damage to a big strong man, but they can. I'd like to see what some of you guys would do if a small woman was going nuts while you were trying to get dressed to leave. She even said that he was trying to leave in the police report and that she had a short fuse.

For their difference in size, those injuries don't jive with what some of you guys are trying to argue.

They had been together for TWO YEARS and there were never any signs of domestic violence. There aren't any other police reports from incidences prior to this one that I can find.