ESPN highlights Seahawk weaknesses

[EastCoastHawksFan]

Schlereth is on the money, as always.

I don't agree with Carter on the "billboard material" thinking- it didn't do opponents much good when Seattle went 8-2 during their last 10 in 2012, and Seattle talked plenty of smack then. Carter makes a good point about the road struggles though- it's very hard to win a SB going 3-5 on the road, because if you go 3-5 on the road you almost certainly aren't getting a bye, which guarantees at least one, probably two road playoff games.

For me, Seattle's biggest weakness, until proven otherwise, is how they handle the Chris Clemons situation. For all we know, he could be "done" as an effective pass rusher in the NFL, it's hard to bounce back from an ACL as a 32 year old who weighs 265 pounds. Avril is a useful player, but he's more like Irvin than Clemons, and we won't have Irvin for the first four games. I would expect our pass rush to struggle early this season, and perhaps throughout the year given the delicate health status of Avril (foot), Bennett (shoulder), and Clemons (knee).

I am also concerned about Seattle's repeated struggles on defense in clutch situations late in games. It could have just been a fluke, or it could have (maybe) been coverage scheme incompetence by Bradley. If it's a fluke it probably won't continue, and if it was Bradley's fault, he's gone now. But still, it's something that I'm a bit worried about. It's possible that our team's big, physical secondary is vulnerable to up-tempo or no-huddle.[/quote]

Good Post

During the Atlanta game I was so uneasy knowing there was 25 seconds still on the clock. Too many times our defense shut down during the final minutes of the game. You can argue that late game defense cost us 75% of our losses last season.

I hope it improves but next year during the season I will not feel good with 2mins or less on the clock only up 3.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Schlereth is on the money, as always.

I don't agree with Carter on the "billboard material" thinking- it didn't do opponents much good when Seattle went 8-2 during their last 10 in 2012, and Seattle talked plenty of smack then. Carter makes a good point about the road struggles though- it's very hard to win a SB going 3-5 on the road, because if you go 3-5 on the road you almost certainly aren't getting a bye, which guarantees at least one, probably two road playoff games.

For me, Seattle's biggest weakness, until proven otherwise, is how they handle the Chris Clemons situation. For all we know, he could be "done" as an effective pass rusher in the NFL, it's hard to bounce back from an ACL as a 32 year old who weighs 265 pounds. Avril is a useful player, but he's more like Irvin than Clemons, and we won't have Irvin for the first four games. I would expect our pass rush to struggle early this season, and perhaps throughout the year given the delicate health status of Avril (foot), Bennett (shoulder), and Clemons (knee).



I am also concerned about Seattle's repeated struggles on defense in clutch situations late in games. It could have just been a fluke, or it could have (maybe) been coverage scheme incompetence by Bradley. If it's a fluke it probably won't continue, and if it was Bradley's fault, he's gone now. But still, it's something that I'm a bit worried about. It's possible that our team's big, physical secondary is vulnerable to up-tempo or no-huddle.[/quote]

Good Post

During the Atlanta game I was so uneasy knowing there was 25 seconds still on the clock. Too many times our defense shut down during the final minutes of the game. You can argue that late game defense cost us 75% of our losses last season.

I hope it improves but next year during the season I will not feel good with 2mins or less on the clock only up 3.

I know many will disagree but I lay that at the feet of Gus Bradley and his "timid"' play calling. His love for the soft zone defensive play calls was maddening!

 

[ClumsyLurk]

I thought Gus was a great coordinator last year. Maybe he wasn't after all.

 

[Scottemojo]

I thought Gus was a great coordinator last year. Maybe he wasn't after all.

Don't buy that drivel. The end of game issues rest with Pete.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

I thought Gus was a great coordinator last year. Maybe he wasn't after all.

Don't buy that drivel. The end of game issues rest with Pete.

How so Scotte?

 

[FlyingGreg]

I thought Gus was a great coordinator last year. Maybe he wasn't after all.

Don't buy that drivel. The end of game issues rest with Pete.

How so Scotte?

I'm no Scotte, but I surmise his answer will be -- "Pete is the head coach, plain and simple. He should have fixed the repeated breakdowns".

 

[bestfightstory]

I thought Gus was a great coordinator last year. Maybe he wasn't after all.

Don't buy that drivel. The end of game issues rest with Pete.

Thank you!

 

[bestfightstory]

Don't buy that drivel. The end of game issues rest with Pete.

How so Scotte?

I'm no Scotte, but I surmise his answer will be -- "Pete is the head coach, plain and simple. He should have fixed the repeated breakdowns".

Not only that, but he is a Defense-minded head coach. If he watched the Miami breakdown, AZ breakdown, Chicago breakdowns, Lions breakdown yet still allowed the EVIL GUS BRADLEY to play the inherently flawed soft zone in ATL against his better judgement as those here who need a scapegoat would have you believe, then he ain't much of a coach.

 

[sutz]

Valid points made by the talking heads and here.

Yes, we do need more pass rush. They made some off season moves. It remains to be seen how they pan out. Hopefully, it'll be better. Sacks always tend to come in bunches, I don't worry too much about that, but we do need more games with multiple sacks to be sure. Having one game with eight and not many other games with more than two won't cut it. I've always thought that 40 sacks/season was kind of a minimum necessary to call oneself 'good' in the league, so we have work to do. Great defenses rack up 50 or more.

I don't worry too much about the trash talking, either. IMHO, the players DID back it up on the field of play, so there. Having said that, Carter makes a good point that mature teams win on the road. We lost several games we probably should have won, and might have with better play in key areas. I actually don't blame coaching that much. We need better execution, and improving the pass rush with the front 4/7 would have a major affect in that area, too, I think.

One thing I like about Quinn that hasn't been mentioned. Pete is a defensive minded head coach, yes, but his 'specialty' is more aligned with the secondary. Quinn, OTOH has a background in DL coaching. It sounds like a pretty good match, assuming they can work together. Since they already have worked together in the past, I think we'll see some interesting and great things on D this year.

 

[bestfightstory]

One thing I like about Quinn that hasn't been mentioned. Pete is a defensive minded head coach, yes, but his 'specialty' is more aligned with the secondary. Quinn, OTOH has a background in DL coaching. It sounds like a pretty good match, assuming they can work together. Since they already have worked together in the past, I think we'll see some interesting and great things on D this year.

Great observation, sutz. Guess who else's 'specialty' was more aligned with the secondary?

Gus Bradley.

 

[FlyingGreg]

Not only that, but he is a Defense-minded head coach. If he watched the Miami breakdown, AZ breakdown, Chicago breakdowns, Lions breakdown yet still allowed the EVIL GUS BRADLEY to play the inherently flawed soft zone in ATL against his better judgement as those here who need a scapegoat would have you believe, then he ain't much of a coach.

Very true. Good point.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Oh, apparently we have an anti-Bradley conspiracy group, and the man could do no wrong. :roll:

Carroll definitely deserves some of the blame for not forcing Bradley to stick with what has worked well through the game until the end, considering before the playoffs arrived we had a couple of solid examples that it didn't work for us. If it was Carroll's order to Bradley that he switch to the soft zone garbage 6,000 yards away from the line of scrimmage, then Carroll deserves all of the blame; but I don't get what the Bradley Defense Team is working so hard over, with BFS talking about people needing scapegoats and Scotte talking about spewing drivel. Unless there's some "it's all Carroll's fault" proof I'm not aware of? If the whole defense of Bradley rests on "Carroll is the head coach", that's a somewhat specious argument. Coaches that micromanage everything generally don't fare well long-term, which is why it's important to have good coaches and assistants.

 

[Tical21]

Carroll always played very vanilla schemes in college also. His thinking seems to be that if you are the team with the better players, put your guys in good position to make plays and make the other team beat them. Get superior talent on the D-Line and make them do their jobs, they shouldn't need help. Make the opposing make plays against your pro-bowl secondary if they want to win. I don't really have a problem with it, and I don't think anybody else really would either if Ryan and Gonzalez didn't make a ridiculous read resulting in a perfect play. You're not going to see anything much different from Quinn. Hopefully he can get his d-lineman to get home more often without help. If you HAVE to blitz to create pass rush, you're flirting with potential problems.

 

[LudwigsDrummer]

Carroll always played very vanilla schemes in college also. His thinking seems to be that if you are the team with the better players, put your guys in good position to make plays and make the other team beat them. Get superior talent on the D-Line and make them do their jobs, they shouldn't need help. Make the opposing make plays against your pro-bowl secondary if they want to win. I don't really have a problem with it, and I don't think anybody else really would either if Ryan and Gonzalez didn't make a ridiculous read resulting in a perfect play. You're not going to see anything much different from Quinn. Hopefully he can get his d-lineman to get home more often without help. If you HAVE to blitz to create pass rush, you're flirting with potential problems.

I tend to agree with that and I would like to add something.

The assistant coach's are hand picked by Pete. They pretty much see eye to eye on what the position coach's responsibility's are.
I believe Pete delegate's the play calling to Bevelle and the DC.
Yep, we gave up lots of game ending drives that resulted in losses and that's just how the cards were dealt. We are a solid team, but we aren't top 5 NFL at every position. I am very happy with what we have, but Bruce getting suspended and Clem's status won't stop our offense from smacking around our competition.

 

[vin.couve12]

Schlereth is on the money, as always.

I don't agree with Carter on the "billboard material" thinking- it didn't do opponents much good when Seattle went 8-2 during their last 10 in 2012, and Seattle talked plenty of smack then. Carter makes a good point about the road struggles though- it's very hard to win a SB going 3-5 on the road, because if you go 3-5 on the road you almost certainly aren't getting a bye, which guarantees at least one, probably two road playoff games.

For me, Seattle's biggest weakness, until proven otherwise, is how they handle the Chris Clemons situation. For all we know, he could be "done" as an effective pass rusher in the NFL, it's hard to bounce back from an ACL as a 32 year old who weighs 265 pounds. Avril is a useful player, but he's more like Irvin than Clemons, and we won't have Irvin for the first four games. I would expect our pass rush to struggle early this season, and perhaps throughout the year given the delicate health status of Avril (foot), Bennett (shoulder), and Clemons (knee).

I am also concerned about Seattle's repeated struggles on defense in clutch situations late in games. It could have just been a fluke, or it could have (maybe) been coverage scheme incompetence by Bradley. If it's a fluke it probably won't continue, and if it was Bradley's fault, he's gone now. But still, it's something that I'm a bit worried about. It's possible that our team's big, physical secondary is vulnerable to up-tempo or no-huddle.

As far as Clem, Irvin, and Avril are concerned I have many of the same concerns. However, what the FO has shown is that they're aware of it and were even last year with the drafting of Irvin. Furthered this offeseason with the additions of Avril and the one you left out, Bennett.

What really sticks out to me that the FO is aware of this is the asking of Irvin and Avril to pick up some LB duties. IMHO, this is an indication that we're developing this hybrid defense even more and incorporating more traditional 3-4 elements to go with out Under, Over, and specialty packages. Irvin hurts us the 1st 4 games, but Avril and Bennett should be able to keep the edges good for those 4 games. Interior at that time will likely consist of Hill and Howard on 3rd downs. When Irvin comes back we add flexibility. If and when Clem comes back even more so, but I too wonder about Clem coming back. One thing I've found in watching Clems career though...any doubt brought to Clem lends to his rather harsh disposition and fuels him. Having seem him since his days as a Skin, you don't like Clem when he's angry.

I cannot say I don't have doubts though.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I think Carroll is underestimated because of his continued success in college and the way he left. Media perception is huge, and there is this perception of "crap in the NFL and cheated in college". The great thing about life is that you can always change minds and Carroll and Schneider years from now WILL be talked about, they basically have been already as their personnel choices have influenced the league.

Seattle has the best secondary in the league, a C+ in their LBs, and a D as far as the front goes. I am highly optimistic with the additions of Bennett, Avril (who will play a key role - he's not going to be a superstar but a Clemonsesque type important player) and with Red hopefully regaining his health, Mebane who is so solid, Irvin coming back fresh off of suspension and hopefully Clemons at least back to normal mid-season. When you have arguably the best outside CB in Sherman, FS in Thomas and Nickle in Winfield... with Browner a top 10 CB by stats and Thurmond a great talent if he can stay healthy.... I can't wait for this year. I'm not even worried about the O, Wilson is for real.

 

[vin.couve12]

Well, I can't say that I think Carroll, or Schneider for that matter, have underestimated the pass rush when they drafted the single best athlete at DE last year as well as Scruggs and then signed two upper tier pass rushers in FA this year along with the draft and UDFA players added. I can't agree with that and I'll just leave it at that....

OK, OK.....I think they've tried to address it and, in fact, have addressed it, but I also know that even when you add a 1st rounder, two higher tier pass rushers in FA, and other draft picks and UDFAs at a position in two years, that it can possibly fall out from under you as well. It's possible. Likely? I don't know about that given this front office's track record over these few years. Pete and John are worth betting on at the craps table.

 

[kearly]

I don't know if Bradley was to blame. I'm just open to the concept. I still remember Philip Rivers having a career record day against our defense in Seattle back in 2010, and Pete turning to Bradley and pretty much just said "wtf is that?" If Bradley was involved, there is certainly a chance he could have contributed to the problem, and if he wasn't (if he was just a figurehead) then exactly what did he do anyway? I don't think he was a figurehead though- I got the impression that Pete trusted Bradley with playcalling and appeared to be given input.

Of course, it's Pete's blueprint. Pete made the call to switch to press after 2010, and he also handles in-game adjustments.

At the same time, I don't think Bradley was any more or less involved with the defense than Bevell is on offense. Pete fired a talented OC because (in part) he refused to run the ball more, which if you watched the 2010 season, you'd wonder what Pete was thinking because the Seahawks O-line and run offense were both among the worst in the league. Seattle's offense went from the 20s to #1 in FO's efficiency rankings in just 1 year, and though I like Bevell, I think he gets minimal credit for that. Most of it goes to Russell, though even with T-Jack our offense would probably be top half next season. Pete is just as much a genius at offense than at defense, but he can't do it all, and some control is ceded. Pete doesn't call the plays, but he does just about everything else.

The one thing I will blame Pete for is his over-emphasis on specialists on the D-line. Pete is so obsessed with stopping the run that for the majority of downs the last two seasons Clemons was our only real pass rusher, they were hesitant to blitz as well.

So who's fault is it for the lack of blitzing? Seattle blitzed aggressively in 2009 but I sense that was on Jim Mora (who constantly preached about wanting aggressiveness and dirtbags). Seattle blitzed less in 2010 than 2009, less in 2011 than 2010, and less in 2012 than 2011. Now Quinn comes in and the first thing he talks about is being "aggressive" on defense. In every interview he does he talks about aggressiveness and pressure in almost every sentence. Not long after that, it was revealed that the team was modifying the SAM position to make it much more pass rush oriented and much less run defense oriented. Was that Pete's idea or Quinn's? I guess we can't know for sure, but the indications point at Quinn.

My view of Pete is, he's like a NASCAR owner. He builds the best car he can, he hires the best pit crew he can, and he recruits the best driver he can find, and he might even give suggestions to the driver during the race, but in the end, he's not the one behind the wheel.

As far as coverage goes, part of it is just mental breakdowns by young players (Sherman in final seconds of regulation vs. Chicago), part of it is a flawed pass rush, and part of it is playing "bend but don't break" defense. The last of which is in Pete's blood as he's a Kiffin disciple, but so was Bradley. It sounds like Quinn might have more of a risk taker philosophy with his defense. If Pete cedes control to such a degree, then it wouldn't matter if it really was Pete's fault in the first place as doing so would mean Pete signed off on a step in a new direction.

Maybe I am terribly wrong and/or disgracefully full of shit. But I don't think it's possible to know until next season is over and we've seen the differences between a Gus Bradley defense and a Dan Quinn one.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Our pass rush was either really good or completely anemic for most of the year. Considering how great our defense was overall, especially with our secondary delaying passes like crazy, our pass rush is definitely a weak spot. Hopefully, it's improved for 2013 by more than a small margin.

Schlereth is 100% correct, in my opinion.

:13:

 

[Evil_Shenanigans]

In 2009 Patrick Kearney retired due to injury. At that time He was my favorite player on the team and an all pro pass rushing force to be reckoned with. When he left I thought that no one would ever be able to fill that role, at least in the short term. They brought in Chris Clemons on a trade that year. I have to say I wasn’t going to be easily impressed, but Clemons made me a believer over the last three seasons. His absence after his injury at the Washington Game left what was likely the biggest glaring weakness in the defense aside from coaching in the Atlanta game. The pass rush evaporated without him and Irvin was totally ineffective alone. The additions of Bennett and Avril in the off season will help. But I am still not seeing what I had hoped to see from Irvin in that role, especially with his upcoming suspension. If Clemons can come back healthy for game 1 I would rest a lot better. But if he doesn’t, then we will have to keep looking. My moneys on Clem!