DeSean Jackson thread (stay on topic please)

[Lynch'sLamborghini]

One thing worth pointing out about this question: Carroll and Schneider are playing with house money, aren't they? They've already won the Super Bowl. Doesn't that free them up to take a shot?

Furthermore, they don't actually have to extend Russell Wilson until after the 2015 season. The worst case scenario if you trade for DeSean Jackson, even if we were to trade the #32 pick, is that he plays for a year and doesn't restructure. The $12.5 million comes off the books at the end of the year and the Seahawks still have a chance to sign Earl Thomas long-term and franchise Richard Sherman, if need be.

I certainly understand the concerns about DSJ in the locker room. But from a risk perspective, I don't think there's much holding JS/PC back from taking this gamble.

 

[Ziggyy108]

Jax, Percy, Marshawn, Russ would be impossible to stop

 

[Tokadub]

I think it's all just posturing to drive his value up for other rival teams like the 49ers. I don't think we could afford him unless it's a one year deal with no guarantees for 2015. Kind of a knee-jerk reaction after realizing how stupid it was to lose Tate.

I think Jared Allen is the only guy we are really trying to get but he may not play for our price.

If we don't get Allen or we are forced to overpay him really makes me wonder why they didn't restructure Clemons. Clemons got a 4 year deal for 18 million which is 4.5 million a year. Seems like that would of been a pretty good deal for us to keep him but I'd rather go for 2 years not 4.

 

[m0ng0]

Ask yourself why does Philly want to get rid of him so badly?

 

[Smelly McUgly]

If he is released and we can get him around what DET got Tate for, something like 5/30 with 12-15M guaranteed, absolutely we should do it, then immediately pivot to re-upping Thomas and Sherman.

I don't know if it would be prudent to go much higher than that and I don't know if Jackson would settle for that on the open market, however.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Jax, Percy, Marshawn, Russ would be impossible to stop

Not if we bust out more run-run-pass brilliance.

 

[jkitsune]

If he is released and we can get him around what DET got Tate for, something like 5/30 with 12-15M guaranteed, absolutely we should do it, then immediately pivot to re-upping Thomas and Sherman.

I don't know if it would be prudent to go much higher than that and I don't know if Jackson would settle for that on the open market, however.

It would take an absolute miracle to get DeSean Jackson for Tate's contract, and it would be highway robbery if we did. I would be shocked if his agent doesn't point out that a much less productive WR got 5/30M and request a lot higher.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I think it's all just posturing to drive his value up for other rival teams like the 49ers. I don't think we could afford him unless it's a one year deal with no guarantees for 2015. Kind of a knee-jerk reaction after realizing how stupid it was to lose Tate.

I think Jared Allen is the only guy we are really trying to get but he may not play for our price.

If we don't get Allen or we are forced to overpay him really makes me wonder why they didn't restructure Clemons. Clemons got a 4 year deal for 18 million which is 4.5 million a year. Seems like that would of been a pretty good deal for us to keep him but I'd rather go for 2 years not 4.

Dude, stay on topic. Jeez, you're worse than Anthony! with all of your insecurities.

 

[QuahHawk]

Keep him away from SF. With a deep threat like Jackson and Kaepernicks arm I'd actually be a little scared of their offense.

 

[OffseasonChampions]

Keep him away from SF. With a deep threat like Jackson and Kaepernicks arm I'd actually be a little scared of their offense.

Scared of their offense with Kaepernick? LOL. I was way more scared of SF in 2011 under Alex Smith. That was probably their best all-around team from the past 3 years. Only problem was they had some bum named Kyle Williams on the roster.

 

[plyka]

DSJ = 5'10''
ADB = 5'10''
PH = 5'11''

6'1'' Kearse and 6'2'' Lockette don't have much of a hope to get significant time behind that lineup. That CFL guy is a longshot and a half to make the final 53.

RW = 5'11'' and struggled visibly with our starting big WR gone.

How do you project RW will do with a midget WR corps and big TE's that don't figure heavily in our offensive statistics?

This post in concise fashion showed why this tade/pickup will simply not happen. It is a stupid and irrational move --superbowl winning Pete/JS are not idiots. I just cannot see how this is possible.

1) He costs a lot of money
2) He is redundant
3) Hawks require draft picks to fill out roster with talent while paying 6-7 guys around 10m per year

If Desean will cost around Tate money, then it is a possibility. If he costs more, it is not going to happen. And if it does, you can count it as one of the horrible errors of judgment made by Pete/JS in their era, as Wilson/Earl/Sherm will be put at risk. Percy Harvin is a better version of Desean Jackson. God only knows why you would want a poor man's Percy for 10m per year. Makes ZERO sense.

 

[formido]

DSJ = 5'10''
ADB = 5'10''
PH = 5'11''

6'1'' Kearse and 6'2'' Lockette don't have much of a hope to get significant time behind that lineup. That CFL guy is a longshot and a half to make the final 53.

RW = 5'11'' and struggled visibly with our starting big WR gone.

How do you project RW will do with a midget WR corps and big TE's that don't figure heavily in our offensive statistics?

Golden is only 5'11" and we did just fine, we even won the super bowl. So to quote Jon Gruden, "your talking about that much" the difference between Tate and Jackson is "that much".

that said, I dont want Jackson on this team.

We did well enough with a historic defense and great field position that could help the offense a lot. Otherwise RW hung on to the ball too long and absorbed too many hits, and not all of that can be blamed on our OL.

He'd be the first diminutive QB in the past 2 decades to run primary receiving targets as short is he is or shorter, without heavily targeted pass catching TE's. Vick, Brees (both in SD and NO), Flutie, Joe Thiesmann, etc.

Do we really want RW to be the guinea pig after the abuse he took last year?

Wilson hanging onto the ball too long isn't a problem considering he had >100 passer rating and even though the pass blocking WAS a problem. If the pass blocking were only average, and Wilson still hung onto the ball "too long", he'd lead the NFL in passer rating easily (as he did for the entire second half of his rookie season).

The claim that the offense can't thrive with a bevy of short receivers is provably false[1]. Last season Seattle averaged well over 3 points/drive with Harvin on the field[2], which would have been best in the NFL if done over the course of the season. The mismatches created by Harvin are obvious and it is extremely likely to project similarly in every game he plays in.

By the way, although the defense was the story of the Super Bowl, Seattle's offense dominated that game and, no, it wasn't just due to field position. Seattle's offensive DVOA (which adjusts for field position) in the Super Bowl (with Harvin) was 28%, which would have been good enough for 2nd in the NFL if they maintained that average over the season.

[1] Not that I wouldn't mind getting a nice big receiving target, because it makes the offense more multiple.

[2] Against Minnesota (bad defense), New Orleans (good defense), and Denver (average defense), so a nice average sample, a set of defenses better by average DVOA than Denver faced last year.

 

[plyka]

Even if he were released, hard to imagine the Hawks getting into a bidding war for him. If they signed him to a big deal it may be at the cost of Sherman.

The market for WRs has been weak this year, FAs have been undermined by a stellar draft alternative. Right now you could probably get Jackson for a day three pick if you were okay with paying $10 million a season, but nobody is going for it, so it's safe to assume that his final asking price will be significantly less than $10 million per year.

There also isn't a lot of money left to spend, at least among the good teams. I wouldn't be shocked at all if a UFA Jackson signs for close to $8 million per year. Seattle can afford that, if they don't end up with Allen. At the very least, they will be involved to make sure SF doesn't get Jackson on a bargain deal.

That's a lot of money to put into WR, but with Jackson and Harvin both on the field you will see teams stack the box a lot less, blitz less, and generally play softer to take away the big play, allowing guys like Kearse and Baldwin to make killing like they did in the SB. Makes a ton of sense that Seattle would be interested, especially since Jackson is another big fish that got away for Pete.

Too much is being put into this "Pete let him get away, now he is itching to get him back, damn the consequences." This idea has a presumption --that Pete/JS make decisions based on emotions, that they make decisions with the Seahawks in order to settle personal scores from the past. This again, would mean Pete/JS are idiots. Let's turn this team into Pete's toy thing, making moves to satiate Pete's emotional needs. Obviously this couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[formido]

DSJ = 5'10''
ADB = 5'10''
PH = 5'11''

6'1'' Kearse and 6'2'' Lockette don't have much of a hope to get significant time behind that lineup. That CFL guy is a longshot and a half to make the final 53.

RW = 5'11'' and struggled visibly with our starting big WR gone.

How do you project RW will do with a midget WR corps and big TE's that don't figure heavily in our offensive statistics?

I project that every game Harvin plays in, Seattle offense will average AT LEAST top 5 offensive DVOA (much like last year on the drives Harvin played in) but probably #1. If you add Jackson to that, it becomes figuratively literally unfair. Every game Harvin and Jackson play together, Seattle will certainly lead the NFL in DVOA by a large margin. It would be mind blowingly fun. It's not even a question.

 

[jkitsune]

I'm not gauging WRs by their height alone, I am gauging their height along with our QBs height and issues while comparing his plight to similar successful QBs of his stature. RW's height isn't anymore of an issue than Drew Brees' is, yet Brees' teams provided him with at least one tall outside WR in Colston, or heavily featured TE's like Jimmy Graham or Antonio Gates in their passing attack. Flutie had two 6'2'' WRs, and two pretty productive tall TEs.

Why would we sink a large part of the cap into a WR corps to not give him an outside mismatch that can win short to intermediate contested jump balls when pass pro breaks down? He'll eat that sack or my favorite, run backwards 10 yards and take it anyway. No other team has handcuffed a shorter QB in this manner lol.

I see what you're getting at, but you're still making your presumptions based nearly entirely on height (QB and WR height, in this case). I see your point with Brees and Flutie, but the players you mention - Colston, Graham, and Gates are pretty special players all around, and I'd argue it's not even mostly due to height. Those players are agile, run routes, have great hands, and many other qualities which make them potent.

As for jump balls, height is important sure, but vertical leap can make up for a lack of height if players are excellent at timing their jumps. Tate was excellent at high-pointing the ball, and won a lot of jump balls despite his height. I don't think it's a necessity that you have a wideout of a minimum height.

Not sure what the point of the lol at the end is.

 

[vin.couve12]

Just say no.

 

[Ziggyy108]

Just say yes

 

[QuahHawk]

I'm sure I could get myself excited for this but I just have a hard time convincing myself it makes much sense.

 

[seahawkfreak]

Ultimate competition,,,, Harvin vs Jackson. I say bring it!

 

[Lady Talon]

I'm not gauging WRs by their height alone, I am gauging their height along with our QBs height and issues while comparing his plight to similar successful QBs of his stature. RW's height isn't anymore of an issue than Drew Brees' is, yet Brees' teams provided him with at least one tall outside WR in Colston, or heavily featured TE's like Jimmy Graham or Antonio Gates in their passing attack. Flutie had two 6'2'' WRs, and two pretty productive tall TEs.

Why would we sink a large part of the cap into a WR corps to not give him an outside mismatch that can win short to intermediate contested jump balls when pass pro breaks down? He'll eat that sack or my favorite, run backwards 10 yards and take it anyway. No other team has handcuffed a shorter QB in this manner lol.

I see what you're getting at, but you're still making your presumptions based nearly entirely on height (QB and WR height, in this case). I see your point with Brees and Flutie, but the players you mention - Colston, Graham, and Gates are pretty special players all around, and I'd argue it's not even mostly due to height. Those players are agile, run routes, have great hands, and many other qualities which make them potent.

As for jump balls, height is important sure, but vertical leap can make up for a lack of height if players are excellent at timing their jumps. Tate was excellent at high-pointing the ball, and won a lot of jump balls despite his height. I don't think it's a necessity that you have a wideout of a minimum height.

Not sure what the point of the lol at the end is.

What did I presume? That no team in recent times times has purposefully paired a diminutive QB with starting WRs shorter than him without at the least a large DEDICATED pass catching TE? That isn't a presumption.

We don't have Tate anymore. A taller Kearse saw significant time with Rice out of the mix, and both aren't exactly slackers at high pointing either.

Please show me some DSJ high pointing highlights cause I mostly see him being hit in stride flat footed and pretty quick tackles if the the ball was a few inches off of perfection with a DB close to him. I'll show you who Foles was throwing to when he was under pressure. It was not his leading receiver making the majority of contested acrobatic grabs to bail him out of trouble. And Wilson will be in far more trouble facing NFC West DL's that have battered him, than Foles got away with in the toothless NFC East.