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jdblack

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I am not a lawyer, so I looked for one. David Franklin is a lawyer and also a chess player. Here are his comments on the case…



Some key take-aways from the interview:

1. The case against Nakamura is virtually nonexistent. He will easily get himself removed from the case.


2. Most of the allegations against Magnus and chess.com are also weak and will likely get dropped.

4. Hans might be able to win the defamation case but it is an “uphill battle.”

5. To win the defamation case he needs to prove that he never cheated over the board, and that is impossible.

6. #4 and #5 are mutually exclusive (my opinion) and he never explained how both can be true.

7. The case could go to trial, but more likely that it will not. It is more likely to end in dismissal, summary judgment, or settlement.

8. Like many federal cases, it could drag out for years, so don’t expect a quick result.

9. Chess as a sport now has a big problem, because there is usually no way to catch a “smart cheater” who only uses his cheating method for one or two moves in an over the board game.

The only thing Franklin says that I question is his claim that Hans can’t prove financial damage. It has already happened! Chess.com has its own upcoming tournament with $1,000,000 in prize money. Hans was eligible to compete prior to getting banned by chess.com. Franklin’s argument is that Hans can still make money from other online sources. That is true, but does not negate the fact that he could make more, if he were not banned from all prize money on chess.com for his entire future career.

The thing that troubles me most about this interview is the conclusion that you can accuse over the board cheating and have no legal liability, because the burden of proof is on alleged to prove that he never cheated. The bottom line seems to be that Magus is guilty of “defamation by implication”, but Hans has no viable means to prove himself innocent and, therefore, can’t prove that Magnus’ cheating allegation is false, and, that is one of the three things plaintiff is required to show in order to win a defamation case. In other defamation cases not related to chess, it may be possible (or even easy) to prove the allegation false (e.g., Kanye West’s bullshit), but not here.

Now that I understand the legal issues better, I feel more sympathy for Hans. Do you?


There is always tension between different rights, where one right is suspended in favor of a more important right. The right to free speech hurts other individuals all the time, but being unable to speak would be worse. If everyone was held to the bar you were previously thinking Magnus should be held to, there would be an incredible amount of lawsuits flying around. You could create laws that apply unequally depending on how much influence you wield, but that would require some sort of dystopian social structure (like China wants and has partially built) to accurately apply. Further, if that law was created and applied to Magnus, that could also extend to forcing him to play Hans, because the action of resigning speaks for itself. That's even more dystopian.

I only feel a little bad for Hans. All he has to do is deny it and go on his way. Rumors are always circulating about sports players and PED usage, politicians and dirty deals, corporations and backroom monopoly deals, etc. It's a potential price of being famous. The reaction is overblown because of the novelty, compounded by Magnus being involved, but it will eventually die down.

One of two things would blow it up into a bigger deal -

1. Rumors gain more substance, either from real evidence or circumstantial like Hans' board performance dropping. I don't think Hans cheats in board play, and even if he did he won't be able to going forward. Past evidence unlikely to exist, else it would have already been presented.

2. An organization bans Hans based on rumors, rather than the depth of reasons given by chess.com. This also seems unlikely; would require an organization to be idiotic in legal matters, or for them to have proof that Hans cheats, and the latter would have already surfaced.
 
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Bear-Hawk

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The consequences are very different between a cheating dispute between two amateurs at a local chess club vs. two professionals at one of the most prestigious tournaments on the pro chess tour.

In both cases, as I understand it, the requirements for what must be shown in a defamation lawsuit are the same.

The difference lies in the potential damages incurred. I suppose the worst that can happen for the amateurs is that the alleged cheater gets kicked out of the chess club, but there is no significant financial loss. For the professional chess player, however, chess is his livelihood. He makes his living playing for prize money in tournaments and teaching chess.

Getting banned by chess.com is no small thing financially. I believe they are the largest online tournament organizer in the world. Their Global Championship tournament alone has a $1,000,000 prize fund…


Hans was able to play in that tournament prior to getting banned.

It would be interesting to see how other tournament organizers deal with him when Magnus is participating. There are 16 players invited to the tournament. They eliminate 8 players in round-robin preliminary matches. Magnus has already declared that he will never play another game with Hans. So imagine what happens if it comes down to Hans vs. Magnus for the trophy. Magnus would just concede the championship to him. In the preliminaries, Hans essentially begins with a one game advantage, since Magus will forfeit their match. That puts all other players at a disadvantage for qualifying. For the weaker players, this could keep them from qualifying. It would be a total mess for everyone involved.

We could argue about whether Hans will get invited to the Sinquefield Cup tournament next year. Unless Magnus changes his stance, I don’t see it happening. It would create chaos and a circus atmosphere.

I am studying defamation laws at the moment, and may post more on that later.
 
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Bear-Hawk

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Mate in 2
This is a little chess puzzle for you guys. It is for white to mate in two moves. No cheating with chess engines allowed!

It came up this week at the Champions Chess Tour Finals tournament. Magnus Carlsen solved it on the live broadcast in under two minutes. It is really a tough one for us mere mortals. So far, he has a performance rating over 3,000 in the tournament.
 

fenderbender123

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Move the bottom rook 3 spaces to the left for a discovered check with the Bishop, forcing the king to move left one square, and then move the knight on the right down two spaces and right one space for checkmate.

That's my best guess.
 
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Bear-Hawk

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Move the bottom rook 3 spaces to the left for a discovered check with the Bishop, forcing the king to move left one square, and then move the knight on the right down two spaces and right one space for checkmate.

That's my best guess.
White bishop on G1 prevents King from moving, but he can block your first check with his pawn.

I still have not seen FIDE report. Either they are slower than DOJ indictment of Trump, or they just want the whole thing to disappear quietly.
 

fenderbender123

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I had to cheat to see the solution. I wouldn't have found it. I'm not that good at chess.
 

JustTheTip

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Queen takes rook, only move black has is to take queen with queen, bottom rook one up to take pawn.

Edit: nevermind, king can move down and left.
 
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JustTheTip

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Gave it another look and finally found it. Trick is eliminating the threat to the knight in one of the two places it can put the king into check. One move does that in one way or another because black has to move 1 of 2 pieces.
 
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Bear-Hawk

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Gave it another look and finally found it. Trick is eliminating the threat to the knight in one of the two places it can put the king into check. One move does that in one way or another because black has to move 1 of 2 pieces.
One of the grand masters in the tournament found the solution in 10 seconds on live broadcast! These guys are incredible.

Meanwhile, Magnus won every match and wrapped up the tournament even before the start of the final round. He is absolute genius endgame player.
 

JustTheTip

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One of the grand masters in the tournament found the solution in 10 seconds on live broadcast! These guys are incredible.

Meanwhile, Magnus won every match and wrapped up the tournament even before the start of the final round. He is absolute genius endgame player.
While I always understood the game, I never really had people to play against (outgrew my grandmother and dad pretty fast) so never really played that much and so never honed the skill. Haven't played at all in over 20 years.
 
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Bear-Hawk

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While I always understood the game, I never really had people to play against (outgrew my grandmother and dad pretty fast) so never really played that much and so never honed the skill. Haven't played at all in over 20 years.
If you like the game, get a good computer chess game for your iPad. You can adjust the difficulty level. I have mine set where I win about 40%. It’s a great way to pass the time on long plane trips, too.
 

JustTheTip

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If you like the game, get a good computer chess game for your iPad. You can adjust the difficulty level. I have mine set where I win about 40%. It’s a great way to pass the time on long plane trips, too.
I tried playing computer chess games a lot when I was younger and was never entertained. Just not the same.
 

JustTheTip

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Figured there have probably been strides in chess software since I last tried. Did some reading, found something I think is in line with what I would want and bought it. Hoping it will be much better than last time I tried, I do really enjoy playing.
 
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Bear-Hawk

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Figured there have probably been strides in chess software since I last tried. Did some reading, found something I think is in line with what I would want and bought it. Hoping it will be much better than last time I tried, I do really enjoy playing.
I use Chess Tiger Pro. You can set it to play at any elo level from beginner to grand master in 50 point increments. All the old chess programs were weak and slow. Not anymore.
 

Bobblehead

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View attachment 55778
This is a little chess puzzle for you guys. It is for white to mate in two moves. No cheating with chess engines allowed!

It came up this week at the Champions Chess Tour Finals tournament. Magnus Carlsen solved it on the live broadcast in under two minutes. It is really a tough one for us mere mortals. So far, he has a performance rating over 3,000 in the tournament.
I haven't found it, but you know what? It don't matter, Black is royaly screwed anyway.. 2 moves 3 moves.. or more.. they guy should have resigned.
 

balakoth

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Here is Antonio's analysis of the game....



Having studied the game, I also see no nearly conclusive evidence. Magnus owes him an apology and the rest of the chess world an explanation. He just dropped a bomb and walked away.

ROFL
 

fenderbender123

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Well, here we are several months later, and no evidence of Hans cheating has surfaced.

Magnus doesn't just accuse anyone who beats him of cheating. He observed Hans' behavior while playing him. That's about all he has to go off of. He probably should have kept his mouth shut about the whole thing.
 
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Bear-Hawk

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Magnus lost two classical games in a row in January. He can be beaten without cheating. One of those was to Giri, which was a shock to me. He hasn’t beaten Magnus in 12 years.
 
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Bear-Hawk

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This is another little chess puzzle for you guys who have not been following the world championship match in progress. This was the key position in game 4.
White to move. Good luck!
 

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