BRADY/PATS PUNISHMENT OVER TURNED BY JUDGE. (Updated 9/3/15)

[Fudwamper]

John Clayton on with Danny, Dave, and Moore show today said he expects around a 4-8 game suspension for Tom Brady.

These numbers being tossed around blow my mind. He has been cheating for at least 1 year. Those are the facts that are used for the AFC Championship game. The punishment is a low level 4-8 games????? We are talking about texts from before the season started. At minimum he should be suspended 1 year.

Has the nfl had to deal wit this type of blatant cheating?

 

[kearly]

It sounds like Belichick is probably safe from punishment. There was no evidence that linked him to anything. The report did not explicitly indict the team either.

However, the language used by the league on this matter was that Brady and the ball handlers 'circumvented the rules' of the league which allows for the commissioner to hand out any punishment he feels like. This has been determined to be more than a simple case of balls not being within parameters which would only be a small fine. They are basically convicting Tom Brady of cheating, and his lack of cooperation and likely lying over it will not help his case.

I think there will definitely be a suspension for Brady of some kind, even if it's only one game. I am guessing the team will not lose draft picks since the report seems to think it was just three people in on this. A moderately large suspension, maybe 6 games, would not surprise me. The 4-8 game estimate feels realistic to me.

Probably goes without saying, the two ball handlers are out of a job if they aren't already.

 

[Exittium]

I wont lie... this was almost as satisfying as an orgasm ..

Man i really hate the patriots and brady..

 

[Fudwamper]

It sounds like Belichick is probably safe from punishment. There was no evidence that linked him to anything. The report did not explicitly indict the team either.

However, the language used by the league on this matter was that Brady and the ball handlers 'circumvented the rules' of the league which allows for the commissioner to hand out any punishment he feels like. This has been determined to be more than a simple case of balls not being within parameters which would only be a small fine. They are basically convicting Tom Brady of cheating, and his lack of cooperation and likely lying over it will not help his case.

I think there will definitely be a suspension for Brady of some kind, even if it's only one game. I am guessing the team will not lose draft picks since the report seems to think it was just three people in on this. A moderately large suspension, maybe 6 games, would not surprise me. The 4-8 game estimate feels realistic to me.

Probably goes without saying, the two ball handlers are out of a job if they aren't already.

Ignorance is not an excuse.... Roger Goodell.

Again why so light on the suspension? That seems so miniscule.

 

[Blitzhawk]

Am I the only one who doesn't really care about the whole deflategate thing? I was at a restaurant earlier today and they had the story on espn and everyone was cheering and slamming the pats. IMO, the whining reminds me a lot of 49er fans crying about the Seahawks. People love to hate the best. Deflate gate had no effect on the SB or their win over the colts in the AFC Championship game.

Maybe I'm wrong, but i could just care less about deflate gate.

You are not wrong for feeling the way you do, that's your prerogative.

But to not think that deflated footballs could have effect games, seems kinda crazy to me.
IIRC the pats were close to leading the the league in not fumbling.
No doubt in my mind that a softer ball is easier to hold onto.
How long had this been going on?
We have no idea how many games could have been effected. Sure we also don't know how many were effected but we do know that at a very minimum, Tom Brady believed he was gaining an advantage. He wouldn't have been doing it AND lied about it otherwise.
Deflated balls may not have played a part in SB49 but they very well may have been a factor in what teams played in SB 49.

The Pats not only led the league in not fumbling but were nearly twice as good at it. Here is a link to the thread with the info regarding the touches per fumble suddenly jumping from league average to nearly twice as many the same year the "Brady" rule went into effect.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=106905&p=1579042&hilit=patriots+fumbles#p1579042

 

[RolandDeschain]

Goodell can secure his job for years and years to come with the right decision (harsh punishment) here, or he can fast-track his way out of the NFL with the wrong one.

I'm very curious to see which path he chooses.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Goodell can secure his job for years and years to come with the right decision (harsh punishment) here, or he can fast-track his way out of the NFL with the wrong one.

I'm very curious to see which path he chooses.

Couldn't agree more. As one of Rog's biggest critics here, I will say that he impressed me with the length of suspensions of Aldon Smith and Greg Hardy. I'm still not a fan of his by any stretch but I have to give him credit in those 2 situations.

If he gives Brady and or Bellicheat severe punishment (1/2 a season to a year+ ) it's going to hurt Rog personally because of close ties to Bob "the assistant commish" Kraft. Hopefully he puts the "good of the game" over the personal relationships with the pats.

It will be interesting to watch it all unfold.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Goodell can secure his job for years and years to come with the right decision (harsh punishment) here, or he can fast-track his way out of the NFL with the wrong one.

I'm very curious to see which path he chooses.

I would love to agree with you, but who would fast track him out? The owners love him, because he absorbs all the beatings that are meant for them. That's all that really matters. I guess if enough of the public became outraged and made it an issue, they could get the government involved...but who wants that mess?

If the NFL fan base at large strongly dislikes what Goodell does here, there's a good chance it's the start of the downfall of his regime. I meant "fast-track" in a long-term sense, like it'd probably start the series of events that lead to him only being commissioner through this coming season as his last. I'm not guaranteeing anything, I could easily be wrong about it if he does go light on Brady, but it's a suspicion I have should he not "do right" by the fan base at large.

 

[RedAlice]

Goodell can secure his job for years and years to come with the right decision (harsh punishment) here, or he can fast-track his way out of the NFL with the wrong one.

I'm very curious to see which path he chooses.

I would love to agree with you, but who would fast track him out? The owners love him, because he absorbs all the beatings that are meant for them. That's all that really matters. I guess if enough of the public became outraged and made it an issue, they could get the government involved...but who wants that mess?

If the NFL fan base at large strongly dislikes what Goodell does here, there's a good chance it's the start of the downfall of his regime. I meant "fast-track" in a long-term sense, like it'd probably start the series of events that lead to him only being commissioner through this coming season as his last. I'm not guaranteeing anything, I could easily be wrong about it if he does go light on Brady, but it's a suspicion I have should he not "do right" by the fan base at large.

It would be wonderful if you are correct here, but having gone through the last time this team cheated - I don't see it happening.

Is this the "tipping point" for Goodell? Not unless the casual fan sees it as a big issue, enough to cause actual public care and backlash. The report was vague enough to not let this happen.

 

[RolandDeschain]

The report wasn't vague at all.

Well...I'd say it was "careful", certainly.

 

[RedAlice]

The report wasn't vague at all.

Well...I'd say it was "careful", certainly.

Vague may be the wrong word, Ro is correct. It was "careful" enough. They never say Brady did anything, just that it is "more than probable" and "at least generally aware" - very careful wording.

Based on the evidence, it also is our view that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady (the quarterback for the Patriots) was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls," the report reads.


Here is my favorite comment I've seen and it's from a Hawk fan -

"I'm sure Goodell is going to fine Marshawn Lynch for this."


Kinda sums it up in a symbolic but true way.


I'd love to be wrong and see Brady and the Pats get what they deserve, I just believe they will.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Here is my favorite comment I've seen and it's from a Hawk fan -

"I'm sure Goodell is going to fine Marshawn Lynch for this."


Kinda sums it up in a symbolic but true way.

Similarly, I saw a comment somewhere where a Seahawks fan mentioned that the NFL threatened to eject Marshawn Lynch from the NFCCG if he wore gold cleats. A suspension for gold cleats. If Brady doesn't spend at least six or more games riding the pine, I'll be very annoyed.

 

[vonstout]

Where are the Pats homers that were over hear saying everyone just hates the Pats and they didn't do anything wrong?

 

[RedAlice]

Here is my favorite comment I've seen and it's from a Hawk fan -

"I'm sure Goodell is going to fine Marshawn Lynch for this."


Kinda sums it up in a symbolic but true way.

Similarly, I saw a comment somewhere where a Seahawks fan mentioned that the NFL threatened to eject Marshawn Lynch from the NFCCG if he wore gold cleats. A suspension for gold cleats. If Brady doesn't spend at least six or more games riding the pine, I'll be very annoyed.

And if the casual fan knew enough about the Pats constant cheating, there would be a tipping point to Goodell yet again not delivering justice when he does things like you just stated. Just not sure they do.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I'll probably get banned at that Patriots forum for the comment I just added, but I'm curious to see how they react, if they bother acknowledging me: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-pat ... st-4197373

The NFL publicly said they would eject Marshawn Lynch from the NFC Championship Game if he wore gold cleats. A one-game suspension for gold-freaking-cleats. Link: http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...h ... son-011815

I'm just a visiting Seahawks fan, but after reading a lot of this report and all the text messages in it, Brady deserves to be suspended for a good number of games. Sorry, most of you won't like it, but too bad. Compare what the league was threatening to do to Lynch in a critical playoff game FOR THE COLOR OF HIS CLEATS to what everyone now FACTUALLY knows about Brady from this report and there is literally no defense in favor of not suspending Brady.

Fact, not opinion.

 

[RedAlice]

The report wasn't vague at all.

Well...I'd say it was "careful", certainly.

Vague may be the wrong word, Ro is correct. It was "careful" enough. They never say Brady did anything, just that it is "more than probable" and "at least generally aware" - very careful wording.

Based on the evidence, it also is our view that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady (the quarterback for the Patriots) was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls," the report reads.

I think a lot of people are confusing what this ruling actually means. More than probable, in this case, is the only standard needed to make the ruling they did. If this was a court of law, more than probable would be enough to convict someone. These are not "careful" words, they are THE standard definitions the NFL uses in these situations.

I am not a PFT fan, but Florio has a great take on it:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... l-meaning/

“More probable than not” equates to a “preponderance of the evidence,” the standard that applies in most civil lawsuits. It means that the evidence makes it more likely than not, in the opinion of the investigator, that “New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules,” and that “Tom Brady . . . was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities.”

That’s a standard perhaps even higher than the one that applies to players accused of violating the Personal Conduct Policy, where “credible corroborating evidence” (even without cooperation from the alleged victim) can result in a significant suspension. Regardless, it’s enough proof on which the NFL can base punishment of a team.

The ruling, in common terms, says these guys are GUILTY. No ifs ands or buts about it.

You are missing my entire point. I am not referring to fans like you, Ro, me, those on this NFL board or any other board. I am referring to the "casual" fan. That is where the numbers come from to make a public enough issue that is viewed as a real changing factor.

That is why spousal/girlfriend abuse / rape charges, etc garner such public opinion and reactions. Nothing you, me Ro or any other NFL fan board types to each other with facts is going to make The View or Oprah, etc. And, unless there is a massive public care about this, it is nothing to Goodell.

Now, IF it can gain casual, public support against the Pats - that is something.

 

[RedAlice]

You are missing my entire point. I am not referring to fans like you, Ro, me, those on this NFL board or any other board. I am referring to the "casual" fan. That is where the numbers come from to make a public enough issue that is viewed as a real changing factor.

That is why spousal/girlfriend abuse / rape charges, etc garner such public opinion and reactions. Nothing you, me Ro or any other NFL fan board types to each other with facts is going to make The View or Oprah, etc. And, unless there is a massive public care about this, it is nothing to Goodell.

Now, IF it can gain casual, public support against the Pats - that is something.

I understand your point. I guess my point is, the report is not vague at all, even in the ruling. Maybe people's understanding of it is incorrect, because of the terminology used.

Maybe Goodell's ruling of punishment for the very clear cheating will make it clear to the public. The casual fan will only see what is reported, not read the report.

At least there is no evidence he can destroy this time. It will just be words in his justification of it all.

 

[penihawk]

I'm content that Brady got exposed as the real plick that he is. Anyone that didn't already know that Brady instructs those guys exactly how he wants the balls and is a D-bag while doing it ain't paying to close attention. He should get 8 games for being a D-bag and a liar alone.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Every single Pats fan on that forum is ignoring the fact that proof is not needed for the NFL to punish someone. If you are even in the same room as something happening that tarnishes the shield, they can penalize you.

Pathetic, the responses I'm getting on that forum.

 

[RedAlice]

Every single Pats fan on that forum is ignoring the fact that proof is not needed for the NFL to punish someone. If you are even in the same room as something happening that tarnishes the shield, they can penalize you.

Pathetic, the responses I'm getting on that forum.

Welcome to Pats fans. They are the scum of the NFL.