Another Fire Bevell Thread

[WindCityHawk]

He's stubborn and uncreative which leads to him being transparent and predictable. He absolutely needs to be fired.

To his defenders: of course he can put on a show when this all-star team is healthy, but that's not an accomplishment. An accomplished OC would find ways for his team to succeed despite their weaknesses or short-term obstacles. Instead we're seeing the exact opposite--the defense and often Russ's improvising are bailing HIM out on a weekly basis. When was the last time Bevell out-schemed anyone? Or garnered praise for an excellent game plan?

Some of you are looking for a defense for him like a needle in a haystack of evidence against him. The cold truth is that Bevell is a not good at his job, and the whole league knows it. It's why he's never been hired away for a promotion, and why he doesn't even get interviewed at the NFL level anymore.

 

[Siouxhawk]

He's stubborn and uncreative which leads to him being transparent and predictable. He absolutely needs to be fired.

To his defenders: of course he can put on a show when this all-star team is healthy, but that's not an accomplishment. An accomplished OC would find ways for his team to succeed despite their weaknesses or short-term obstacles. Instead we're seeing the exact opposite--the defense and often Russ's improvising are bailing HIM out on a weekly basis. When was the last time Bevell out-schemed anyone? Or garnered praise for an excellent game plan?

Some of you are looking for a defense for him like a needle in a haystack of evidence against him. The cold truth is that Bevell is a not good at his job, and the whole league knows it. It's why he's never been hired away for a promotion, and why he doesn't even get interviewed at the NFL level anymore.

Yeah, I don't know if you've looked at the standings lately, but the Hawks have only lost 1 time in 6 games. So for all the things you state our OC isn't doing, he likely is. And yes, I know our D has been leading the way for us -- that's not a new thing and it's been highly successful -- but the offense has done its part too and will be an even greater contributor once Rawls returns, Russ gains greater mobility and our line takes the needed surge it will.

 

[canfan]

I find these Bevell threads to be tedious beyond bearing. Unless somebody here has the ear of Pete Carroll, Bevell is the OC for at least this season. Plus anybody that looks at our offensive line and still thinks that changing OC in mid-season will have a meaningful impact may be just fooling themselves. The only result I could foresee from changing OC right now would be to force the offence to learn a new system and terminology while at the same time dealing with a talent bereft pair of tackles and a QB that is adjusting to life without legs that work. Changes to coordinators should happen in the off season when there is time at OTA's and training camp to install the new offense. Pete didn't even fire Jeremy Bates until the end of the 2010 season.

Save your tar and feathers, pitchforks and burning torches for February. I fear that until that time, everybody is just wasting a lot of energy on a situation that has no chance of changing, at least for this season.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

So it's a duplicate thread and a bait and switch.

Mods?

:irishdrinkers:

 

[edogg23]

Guess its hard to face the truth!

 

[WindCityHawk]

He's stubborn and uncreative which leads to him being transparent and predictable. He absolutely needs to be fired.

To his defenders: of course he can put on a show when this all-star team is healthy, but that's not an accomplishment. An accomplished OC would find ways for his team to succeed despite their weaknesses or short-term obstacles. Instead we're seeing the exact opposite--the defense and often Russ's improvising are bailing HIM out on a weekly basis. When was the last time Bevell out-schemed anyone? Or garnered praise for an excellent game plan?

Some of you are looking for a defense for him like a needle in a haystack of evidence against him. The cold truth is that Bevell is a not good at his job, and the whole league knows it. It's why he's never been hired away for a promotion, and why he doesn't even get interviewed at the NFL level anymore.

Yeah, I don't know if you've looked at the standings lately, but the Hawks have only lost 1 time in 6 games. So for all the things you state our OC isn't doing, he likely is. And yes, I know our D has been leading the way for us -- that's not a new thing and it's been highly successful -- but the offense has done its part too and will be an even greater contributor once Rawls returns, Russ gains greater mobility and our line takes the needed surge it will.

This is exactly what bugs me. Bevell's defense is that once he has a star RB and a healthy star QB and a good offensive line, THEN he's good at his job. Well yeah! He'd better be! Under those conditions, anyone could look good at OC.

If someone is only good at their job when everything is going their way, then they're not actually good at their job. It's the guys who can find success among obstacles, or guys like Russ himself who can succeed on the fly, when everything is going wrong that want on your sideline.

Bevell has never shown that he can adjust to different situations, work to individual strengths, or target opponents' weaknesses. And we shouldn't have to wait for a perfect alignment of star players to put a touchdown on the board.

 

[mrt144]

He's stubborn and uncreative which leads to him being transparent and predictable. He absolutely needs to be fired.

To his defenders: of course he can put on a show when this all-star team is healthy, but that's not an accomplishment. An accomplished OC would find ways for his team to succeed despite their weaknesses or short-term obstacles. Instead we're seeing the exact opposite--the defense and often Russ's improvising are bailing HIM out on a weekly basis. When was the last time Bevell out-schemed anyone? Or garnered praise for an excellent game plan?

Some of you are looking for a defense for him like a needle in a haystack of evidence against him. The cold truth is that Bevell is a not good at his job, and the whole league knows it. It's why he's never been hired away for a promotion, and why he doesn't even get interviewed at the NFL level anymore.

Yeah, I don't know if you've looked at the standings lately, but the Hawks have only lost 1 time in 6 games. So for all the things you state our OC isn't doing, he likely is. And yes, I know our D has been leading the way for us -- that's not a new thing and it's been highly successful -- but the offense has done its part too and will be an even greater contributor once Rawls returns, Russ gains greater mobility and our line takes the needed surge it will.

This is exactly what bugs me. Bevell's defense is that once he has a star RB and a healthy star QB and a good offensive line, THEN he's good at his job. Well yeah! He'd better be! Under those conditions, anyone could look good at OC.

If someone is only good at their job when everything is going their way, then they're not actually good at their job. It's the guys who can find success among obstacles, or guys like Russ himself who can succeed on the fly, when everything is going wrong that want on your sideline.

Bevell has never shown that he can adjust to different situations, work to individual strengths, or target opponents' weaknesses. And we shouldn't have to wait for a perfect alignment of star players to put a touchdown on the board.

To be fair, the Cards game was a fiasco on several levels, many of which don't start with Bevell but just the position group at OL being booboo crew. But the thrust of your argument rings true - the best among us triumph in adversity and remain vigilant in the best times.

 

[RichNhansom]

He's stubborn and uncreative which leads to him being transparent and predictable. He absolutely needs to be fired.

To his defenders: of course he can put on a show when this all-star team is healthy, but that's not an accomplishment. An accomplished OC would find ways for his team to succeed despite their weaknesses or short-term obstacles. Instead we're seeing the exact opposite--the defense and often Russ's improvising are bailing HIM out on a weekly basis. When was the last time Bevell out-schemed anyone? Or garnered praise for an excellent game plan?

Some of you are looking for a defense for him like a needle in a haystack of evidence against him. The cold truth is that Bevell is a not good at his job, and the whole league knows it. It's why he's never been hired away for a promotion, and why he doesn't even get interviewed at the NFL level anymore.

Yeah, I don't know if you've looked at the standings lately, but the Hawks have only lost 1 time in 6 games. So for all the things you state our OC isn't doing, he likely is. And yes, I know our D has been leading the way for us -- that's not a new thing and it's been highly successful -- but the offense has done its part too and will be an even greater contributor once Rawls returns, Russ gains greater mobility and our line takes the needed surge it will.

This is exactly what bugs me. Bevell's defense is that once he has a star RB and a healthy star QB and a good offensive line, THEN he's good at his job. Well yeah! He'd better be! Under those conditions, anyone could look good at OC.

If someone is only good at their job when everything is going their way, then they're not actually good at their job. It's the guys who can find success among obstacles, or guys like Russ himself who can succeed on the fly, when everything is going wrong that want on your sideline.

Bevell has never shown that he can adjust to different situations, work to individual strengths, or target opponents' weaknesses. And we shouldn't have to wait for a perfect alignment of star players to put a touchdown on the board.

When have we ever had a complete offense like you describe?

Last check outside of Lynch and Wilson we have zero pro bowl players and our O-line has been amonst the worst in football for years.

Those guys you like so much like Baldwin, Kearse and Lockett have all developed under Bevell as has Wilson.

Now we are dealing with a ton of injuries and just played one of the top defenses. And if not for some critically time penalties we may have won easily.

This last game was a shit show but there were lots of reasons for it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

When have we ever had a complete offense like you describe? .

2015............#4 overall, #3 rushing, #20 passing.

Damn you Bevell!!!!

 

[West TX Hawk]

He's stubborn and uncreative which leads to him being transparent and predictable. He absolutely needs to be fired.

To his defenders: of course he can put on a show when this all-star team is healthy, but that's not an accomplishment. An accomplished OC would find ways for his team to succeed despite their weaknesses or short-term obstacles. Instead we're seeing the exact opposite--the defense and often Russ's improvising are bailing HIM out on a weekly basis. When was the last time Bevell out-schemed anyone? Or garnered praise for an excellent game plan?

Some of you are looking for a defense for him like a needle in a haystack of evidence against him. The cold truth is that Bevell is a not good at his job, and the whole league knows it. It's why he's never been hired away for a promotion, and why he doesn't even get interviewed at the NFL level anymore.

Yeah, I don't know if you've looked at the standings lately, but the Hawks have only lost 1 time in 6 games. So for all the things you state our OC isn't doing, he likely is. And yes, I know our D has been leading the way for us -- that's not a new thing and it's been highly successful -- but the offense has done its part too and will be an even greater contributor once Rawls returns, Russ gains greater mobility and our line takes the needed surge it will.

This is exactly what bugs me. Bevell's defense is that once he has a star RB and a healthy star QB and a good offensive line, THEN he's good at his job. Well yeah! He'd better be! Under those conditions, anyone could look good at OC.

If someone is only good at their job when everything is going their way, then they're not actually good at their job. It's the guys who can find success among obstacles, or guys like Russ himself who can succeed on the fly, when everything is going wrong that want on your sideline.

Bevell has never shown that he can adjust to different situations, work to individual strengths, or target opponents' weaknesses. And we shouldn't have to wait for a perfect alignment of star players to put a touchdown on the board.

When have we ever had a complete offense like you describe?

Last check outside of Lynch and Wilson we have zero pro bowl players and our O-line has been amonst the worst in football for years.

Those guys you like so much like Baldwin, Kearse and Lockett have all developed under Bevell as has Wilson.

So Jimmy Graham is not a pro-bowl caliber player nor is Doug Baldwin (2nd Team All-Pro PFF 2015) or our 2015 kick returner pro bowler with world class speed Tyler Lockett?

And Wilson, Baldwin, Kearse and Lockett would not have "developed" under any other coach or coordinator??

Lots of coordinators would love to have those weapons plus Wilson to work with, despite our crap Oline. New England has a poor Oline almost every year too.

 

[Siouxhawk]

And we've done just as well as New England this decade.

 

[West TX Hawk]

When have we ever had a complete offense like you describe? .

2015............#4 overall, #3 rushing, #20 passing.

Damn you Bevell!!!!

2016.............tied for dead last in total scoring (111 points), #22 overall, #27th rushing, #14 passing

Bevell obviously isn't the only problem, but I believe he's a factor.

 

[West TX Hawk]

And we've done just as well as New England this decade.

NE has been to the AFC championship or better every season since since 2011, the year Bevell became our OC. We have not done quite as well.

NE has historically had poor olines but Belichick and McDaniels continually adjust, evolve and work with the personnel they have to their advantage, even when they go through stretches with major injuries or suspensions.

Maybe, just maybe we could do better with someone new with fresh ideas and concepts that still flow with Pete's overall philosophy.

 

[RichNhansom]

So Jimmy Graham is not a pro-bowl caliber player nor is Doug Baldwin (2nd Team All-Pro PFF 2015) or our 2015 kick returner pro bowler with world class speed Tyler Lockett?

And Wilson, Baldwin, Kearse and Lockett would not have "developed" under any other coach or coordinator??

Lots of coordinators would love to have those weapons plus Wilson to work with, despite our crap Oline. New England has a poor Oline almost every year too.

Was Jimmy probowl level last year?

Has Baldwin been at his current level for 4 years?

Lockett made the probowl for speacial teams not his receiving and while I love the kid he also is not at a probowl level.

You want to just assume these guts and Wilson would be just as good in any system? Is that because you believe it or it suits your argument.

New England has played in the easiest division and the AFC. Didn't the Broncos beat knock them out of the playoffs?

I'll tell you what. Show me a team as banged up as we are now, with no running threat and poor O-line play, playing against a top tier defense(not to mention a division opponent) while having 10 drive killing penalties on them and I'll show you a team that looks like they suck.

Look past your pitchfork and you may notice alot of things went against us in that game. Not just play calling.

And statistically Bevell has been one of the most successful since he arrived here. While developing talent.

 

[Siouxhawk]

And we've done just as well as New England this decade.

NE has been to the AFC championship or better every season since since 2011, the year Bevell became our OC. We have not done quite as well.

NE has historically had poor olines but Belichick and McDaniels continually adjust, evolve and work with the personnel they have to their advantage, even when they go through stretches with major injuries or suspensions.

Maybe, just maybe we could do better with someone new with fresh ideas and concepts that still flow with Pete's overall philosophy.

Same amount of Super Bowl appearances in the decade. Both teams do have the same philosophy about the Oline it seems.

 

[West TX Hawk]

So Jimmy Graham is not a pro-bowl caliber player nor is Doug Baldwin (2nd Team All-Pro PFF 2015) or our 2015 kick returner pro bowler with world class speed Tyler Lockett?

And Wilson, Baldwin, Kearse and Lockett would not have "developed" under any other coach or coordinator??

Lots of coordinators would love to have those weapons plus Wilson to work with, despite our crap Oline. New England has a poor Oline almost every year too.

Was Jimmy probowl level last year?

Has Baldwin been at his current level for 4 years?

Lockett made the probowl for speacial teams not his receiving and while I love the kid he also is not at a probowl level.

You want to just assume these guts and Wilson would be just as good in any system? Is that because you believe it or it suits your argument.

New England has played in the easiest division and the AFC. Didn't the Broncos beat knock them out of the playoffs?

I'll tell you what. Show me a team as banged up as we are now, with no running threat and poor O-line play, playing against a top tier defense(not to mention a division opponent) while having 10 drive killing penalties on them and I'll show you a team that looks like they suck.

Look past your pitchfork and you may notice alot of things went against us in that game. Not just play calling.

And statistically Bevell has been one of the most successful since he arrived here. While developing talent.

So my pitchfork huh? I was here to discuss, listen and present logical arguments, but if you wish to go that route, fine. My disappointment with Bevell goes back 4 years to the ATL playoff game where he failed to make any adjustment at all in the first half and this became an unsightly trend over the years. My biggest issue with both Bevell and Pete is their seemingly lack of urgency on the offensive side for the first 3 quarters. Only when they have to play catch-up or the game's on the line do we see a quicker tempo and the playbook open up.

I guess the Vikings look like they suck huh? Their HOF RB is out, their starting QB before the season is out and they rank dead last in run blocking DVOA and a whopping 17th in pass blocking. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
And yet they're 5-1. Interesting.

And yes, I do believe that Wilson would thrive in just about any system. He made and developed himself against a multitude of obstacles. Nothing is stopping that man from any form of success. And an ultra competitor like Baldwin? Do you really feel he would not be excelling elsewhere? Imagine him in the slot in any of these full-time spread offenses taking quick slants for 8-10 yards a pop. For another comparable, look at Tate's success with Detroit. He played under Bevell and performed even better in another system.

And regarding Graham last year, how many total redzone targets did he have? How many does he have this year? Not many. Any competent OC would be using him as a first read target a majority of the time in the redzone.

Finally, with regards to NE, yep they lost to Denver in the AFC title-again, they've made it to the AFC championship or better every year since '11 in part because they evolve and adjust on offense. And meanwhile, we got our tails handed to us by Carolina-once again shut out in the first half.

Perhaps with new blood in here for OC and OL coach we could achieve even more.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

When have we ever had a complete offense like you describe? .

2015............#4 overall, #3 rushing, #20 passing.

Damn you Bevell!!!!

2016.............tied for dead last in total scoring (111 points), #22 overall, #27th rushing, #14 passing

Bevell obviously isn't the only problem, but I believe he's a factor.

Of course he's a factor..........but 2015 tells you that when the offense is healthy, especially Russell, this is a top 10 offense, even top 5. WITH most of it's cap space dedicated to the defense.

Doesn't that tell you Bevell's a good coordinator when given a healthy Russell? That what that tells me. Cause I don't know any coordinator that could have this offense in the top 10 with this terrible line and major injuries to 3/5ths of it's core skill position players (Russell, Rawls, Lockett and Graham).

It's amazing how some of you discount so greatly the time it takes for coaches, coordinators and players to gel and develop the chemistry needed to succeed. Go ask QB's like Cutler, Tannehill and Luck who have had numerous offensive coordinators screwing up their careers because it takes years to learn systems and develop chemistry and communication with everyone.

You trust Pete in literally EVERY other aspect of this team, yet for some reason not the O-coordinator. Why?

 

[Threedee]

o lets not Fire Bevell yet, lets get healthy and talk about it at seasons end, I am not a fan of Bevell but there are few out there to pick from at the moment that are better and more importantly available.

There has always been a solution to not wanting to fire an OC midseason, and that was to fire Bevell at the end of last season, or, ideally, at the end of 2014.

 

[WindCityHawk]

His defenders keep pointing to the most previous game for exceptions and anomalies every week. Every week! If you have to defend someone every week, he's probably not worth defending!

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

His defenders keep pointing to the most previous game for exceptions and anomalies every week. Every week! If you have to defend someone every week, he's probably not worth defending!

He gets defended every week because every week there's one of these blummin threads.

This basically sums it up perfectly:

You trust Pete in literally EVERY other aspect of this team, yet for some reason not the O-coordinator. Why?