Am I The Only One Advocating Luke Willson to WR?

[SouthSoundHawk]

I don't care where he lines up, I want to see more Wollverine on the field!

 

[kearly]

Willson played mostly in the slot in college, so he's always basically been just like a slot WR most of the time. The reason they will keep him at TE is because the flexibility to play both inline and in the slot has a lot of value because it forces mismatches. Line him up on the line in a viable running down (Willson is a quality run blocker) and you force the defense to keep an extra LB on the field. If they do, you move Willson out to the slot where he gets covered by a LB instead of a corner. How many LBs can easily cover a guy who runs a 4.51?

If you did nothing but play him at WR all the time, this is a benefit that would be lost.

 

[Tical21]

smh

 

[bjornanderson21]

Converting him actually sounds like an interesting idea, though with drawbacks.

Willson looks like he could be Zach Miller at a much lower price, so keeping him at TE makes sense.

Then again, the Hawks keep drafting tall WRs and cutting them in a year or less, so converting him would immediately take care of one of their desires that they can't seem to fulfill.

Generally i don't like the idea of converting someone to a different position just to see if it works, but this one actually makes some sense considering we now have Miller back for two years on a cheaper deal so it isn't as important for Willson to take over that job.

But in the end I think they can continue using him at TE but just increase the amount of passes thrown to our TEs so he still helps us out as a receiver. I really like him catching passes so anything that gets the ball in his hands is fine with me.

 

[razor150]

Sure right after we move Kam to linebacker.

 

[Atradees]

carpenter will be returning punts. It will be a slow return.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Why do we do this every offseason? Let's convert x player to y position! When does that happen with success in the nfl? Konz? If he were a WR, they'd have done it already. Why the heck would they have him drop weight and start that now?

He is coming along well as a universal blocking and receiving TE. And could be the starter over miller next season. He could be very dynamic at the TE position. We will obviously split him out, but full time conversion to WR makes little sense IMO.

They play madden and it works there.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

carpenter will be returning punts. It will be a slow return.

I see what you did there.

 

[seahawksny]

Why do we do this every offseason? Let's convert x player to y position! When does that happen with success in the nfl? Konz? If he were a WR, they'd have done it already. Why the heck would they have him drop weight and start that now?

He is coming along well as a universal blocking and receiving TE. And could be the starter over miller next season. He could be very dynamic at the TE position. We will obviously split him out, but full time conversion to WR makes little sense IMO.

I agree. If this wasnt the case, then tim tebow would still be playing somewhere at some position

 

[KiwiHawk]

We already have a 6'5" WR - his name is Chris Matthews.

 

[monkey]

The problem with this idea is that you're misunderstanding why we drafted him to play the TE position, and you're missing a basic understanding of the position itself.
Firstly, you need to understand that there are (at least) two different ways that teams normally use TE's. You have the typical "Y" TE, who is the guy on the line of scrimmage, with his hand in the dirt, who cannot move pre-snap, and who is primarily used as a blocker. (See Zack Miller)
The other type of TE, the type I believe Willson was drafted to become, is what they call the "Joker" TE. The Joker is used in two TE sets, and is able to move around pre-snap and create match up problems for the defense. Normally these are much faster, TE's and are NOT primarily asked to block. (See Kellen Winslow Jr.) When Winslow was brought here this was the role that Pete had in mind for him, unfortunately his knee caused too many problems, and his speed had deteriorated to the point he'd lost his effectiveness.
The team is still looking for his replacement, however, and has been since they released him. It's a VERY important position in Pete's big picture of his offense.

I believe that Willson was drafted with the idea that his speed could make him a terrific "Joker" TE, one who could nicely pair up with Zack Miller or his eventual replacement, in two TE sets.

Jimmy Graham is used much the same way, he is not the "Y" TE with his hand in the dirt, blocking (good thing too because he's the worst blocker I've ever seen at TE, by a LONG ways!), he plays more of the Saints version of the Joker, who can go into motion pre-snap, or just line up in the slot, thereby creating match up problems for the defense.

Moving Willson to WR, would COMPLETELY destroy his value to the team. Where the team values him is as that guy in 2 TE sets who can create match up problems with his speed.

Not to be mean spirited, but moving him to WR is a really horrible idea. It just is.

Having said all of that, I understand that the reason this would seem like an appealing idea is, because Pete is also still looking for a replacement for that "big body" WR role, the next Big Mike Williams for this team.
You were trying to think out of the box, which is good thinking, but the "big body WR" will probably have to come from the draft.

 

[WestcoastSteve]

He's a dynamic TE, if we move him we don't have any fast tight ends. What do we really gain?

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Player A:
?? Bench Reps
39.5 Inch Vertical Jump
9'11" Broad Jump
4.34 Shuttle
7.09 Three-Cone
1.47 Ten Yard Dash
2.57 Twenty Yard Dash
4.51 Forty Yard Dash

Player B:
17 Bench Reps
35 Inch Vertical Jump
10'00" Broad Jump
4.34 Shuttle
7.12 Three-Cone
1.51 Ten Yard Dash
2.50 Twenty Yard Dash
4.42 Forty Yard Dash

Player C:
15 Bench Reps
38.5 Inch Vertical Jump
10'00" Inch Broad Jump
4.39 Shuttle
6.90 Three-Cone
1.53 Ten Yard Dash
2.61 Twenty Yard Dash
4.53 Forty Yard Dash

Player D:
23 Bench Reps
38 Inch Vertical Jump
10'02" Broad Jump
4.29 Shuttle
7.08 Three-Cone
1.53 Ten Yard Dash
2.57 Twenty Yard Dash
4.51 Forty Yard Dash

All 4 players seemingly have comparable athleticism... who would you choose?

That question was rhetoric.

Player A is 5'10" Golden Tate at 199 pounds w/ 30.5 in Arms and 9 1/4 in Hands.

Player B is 6'3" Sidney Rice at 202 pounds.

Player C is 6'6" Jimmy Graham at 260 pounds w/ 35 in Arms and 10 5/8 Hands

Player D is 6'5" Luke Wilson at 250 Pounds w/ 32.5 in Arms and 9 3/8 Hands.

Wilson and Graham possess similar athleticism but the part that makes JG truly special is his elite footwork for his size that allows him to run crisp routes plus his tree like length and some of the biggest pairs of mitts you'll find on a WR.

However, Willson has as much athleticism as both Tate and Rice even posting a better broad jump, shuttle, and 3-Cone measures despite being 50 pounds heavier.

Willson is not as fast as Tate but is bigger, stronger, taller with longer arms and bigger hands. So what Willson lacks in speed in comparison, he makes up in size and length ala most defenders on the team.

Willson however possess very similar athleticism to Sidney Rice as well as being bigger, stronger, and taller. I believe Rice though has longer arms and bigger hands even though I could not find that info.

What is my point to all this, you're probably wondering?

1.) No, Luke Willson doesn't possess the elite attributes that make Jimmy Graham a dangerous WR/TE.

2.) However, that doesn't mean he doesn't posses the athleticism and similar attributes to play Flanker in our system, jobs Tate and Rice held the last 2-3 seasons.

3.) No, I'm not saying Willson is going be a No. 1 WR and anchor down the Flanker position just that he has the athleticism to play outside in our system. Again Mike Williams, Sidney Rice, and Golden Tate all held those positions and Willson has as much or better athleticism.

4.) In my OP, I said Willson should slim down to 235, I don't believe that anymore, despite weighing 250, he owns a special type of athleticism most TEs do not have.

5.) So, I'll revise my original statement not for Willson to be used exclusively as a WR but for him to continue to be a play-making Offensive Weapon and to just add another notch to his utility belt, which is the Flanker position.

Luke Willson: Athletic Tight End, Big Full-Back, Huge Slot WR, Big Flanker WR, Solid In-Line Blocker, and Elite Down-Field WR Blocker.

Just something that can happen and I hope the Seahawks are thinking about it allows Luke Willson to see the field, while still allowing Miller and McCoy to get quality snaps. It also gives the Seahawks a big target on the outside in Red Zone packages. Plus, allows the Seahawks to draft a developmental WR with huge upside without forcing that guy onto the field right away.

1. Percy Harvin
2. Doug Baldwin
3. Jermaine Kearse
4. Luke Wilson (3rd TE)
5. Ricardo Lockette
6. Draft Pick

1. Zach Miller
2. Anthony McCoy
3. Luke Willson (4th WR)

 

[JMR]

I think he's being used now pretty much how he'll be used in the future. Zach Miller was on the field 58 of 60 snaps in the SB. I dont recall many two TE sets (maybe an excuse to watch it again) so isn't he already being used more like a WR than a traditional inline TE? I don't see the point of changing the label.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Still can't believe they are gonna' have Haushka as a DE. But hey, you never know.......

 

[plyka]

What do we know?

He's 6'5, 250 pounds runs a 4.51 Forty, extremely athletic plus solid hands, solid blocking ability (from a TE standpoint) with room to improve in both skillsets. Is versatile enough get looks at FB and occasionally line up in the slot position ala Joker TE/H-Back.

Now could you imagine him as a 6'5, 235 WR who possibly could top out at 4.45, have okay hands for the position (which can be improved on) but he'd have superb blocking ability for the position which easily could be improved to elite status.

Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse (all interchangable) plus Willson and Lockette is a strong unit.

Miller, McCoy + possibly Finley vs Beckum vs Helfet vs Draft Pick would round out a solid TE group.

And if needed Willson depending on how much strength he adds over this off-season could still line up in-line at TE on occasion.

Especially if the Seahawks can sign Finley (assuming he's medically cleared)... Seahawks wouldn't need to draft a WR or TE and can use thier top picks on quality lineman whether Offensive or Defensive.

There is something that I can't pin point, but I am calling "WR Intangibles." It's mostly about how you catch the ball, how you position your body, how you run your routes, what you do in X situation. Comparing a WR like Rice or Baldwin with Tate for instance. The first two have the WR intangibles. Tate does not. Tate is a physical beast, but he doesn't have the WR intangibles to ever become an elite WR. Willson is even further away. He is far too stiff and lacks all the WR intangibles. I don't think he will ever even be a Jimmy Graham or Gronk. He just does not have the intangibles from what i've seen.

Finley healthy? That's a different story.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Pete was talking about moving Russell Wilson to safety.

 

[Tical21]

FORGET SPARQ RATING AND MEASURABLES!! geez. Watch a guy play football!! Does Luke Willson look like a WR to you!??! At all? Does he run like a wide receiver runs? Does he catch the ball like a WR catches the ball? Does he run routes like WR's run routes?

Why put Willson at WR? What are you looking to exploit by doing so? What gifts of his make him more valuable to us as a WR than as a TE?

You are aware that for bigger guys, CB's are more difficult to block than DE's or LB's, right?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Very stoked to see Mebane as our new Punter.

 

[Hawks46]

He'd have to drop 20-30 lbs to contribute significantly on the outside without frequent breathers, then you lose the value his size and speed create in mismatches on the interior defense. Might as well be a rookie learning a new route tree and frequent scramble drills with RW running for his life in the backfield as well. Just my .02.

This. He could be a decent WR, but he has much better mismatches against LBers and Safeties than CBs.

Throwdown also has it right: he's not fluid enough with enough body control to really be a good WR. On top of that, he's fast for his size, but not quick. There are a ton of fast guys (Lockette) that aren't very quick and they struggle in the NFL because everybody's fast in the NFL. You have to be sudden out of your breaks to be a difference maker at WR. Ask Baldwin about that.