PC press conference

[Ozzy]

I’d also add that Pete himself said “we wanted to take them with deep shots” and everyone is blaming Waldron for throwing deep. This tells us two things, Pete is involved in the game plan and he wanted to do what everyone claiming is a Waldron thing. We’ve always played that way under Pete. @Fade is right, this stuff isn’t that hard to figure out why it’s happening

 

[cymatica]

Pete also said if we were 6/11 on 3rd down it would have changed the whole game. He is delusional

 

[Maelstrom787]

Which sort of begs the question though doesn’t it? Why did Waldron bring over the flood concepts and/ the middle of the field stuff they run in LA? Pair that with the fact that Pete has talked about how he doesnt like the middle of the field used as much because it carries a higher turnover risk. Add in KJ pissed that they practiced fades to DK every practice. Is it possible Pete has told Waldron he wants to avoid the middle of the field as much as possible because it’s his style of play and/or he knows Geno is turnover worthy? This offense looks nothing like the Rams system Waldron came from

I know @Maelstrom787 in the shack made fun of people who question Pete’s role but I think all things considered it’s a reasonable question to ask.

If I'm thinking about the correct post, my intention wasn't to make fun of people who question Pete's role. It was to make fun of people who are too emotional with their critiques and end up making contradictory critiques, like holding the beliefs that Pete should both stay out of the offense and also step in more to fix said offense.

I think negative emotions around the team have caused a lot of inconsistent grumblings to pop up. The board may seem fairly united in wanting change, but I think that those who are most vociferous about their complaints, in some cases, aren't making especially coherent or salient points as to what the actual issues are.

I'm not annoyed by having a minority viewpoint. I just hate seeing a lack of ideological consistency and intellectual honesty.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I’d also add that Pete himself said “we wanted to take them with deep shots” and everyone is blaming Waldron for throwing deep. This tells us two things, Pete is involved in the game plan and he wanted to do what everyone claiming is a Waldron thing. We’ve always played that way under Pete. @Fade is right, this stuff isn’t that hard to figure out why it’s happening

I don't especially disagree with wanting to hit them with deep shots. We would need to beat the 49ers on explosives, and that's the likeliest place to get them with the 49ers being down a star safety and not being world-beaters on the backend otherwise. While I would like to see emphasis short passing concepts to alleviate efficiency problems, my bigger issue is that our concepts aren't getting open at all on too frequent of a basis.

Based on my limited film and XO expertise, I think we need to find a way to have Metcalf draw more coverage as a decoy and, from there, get some synergistic route combinations going to open JSN and Lockett in space. This'll be hard without a consistent run threat. There's nothing to build on as an offense right now if we cannot find a single successful aspect of the offense to buy into, and then expand from. My thought process on a problem solving level continues, via all roads, to lead to increasing the rushing frequency, going heavy PA on most non-rushing downs, and dialing up intermediate and deep shots in between. I'd also like to see more under center looks, but that may not be Geno's forte. Pistol rushing may be an avenue to explore.

This may all lead back to a lack of detail on offense. It's been stated by a lot of film guys that the OL has fairly extreme tells regarding run/pass, which is troubling. We may be getting blanked in general, especially by man D, because the offense simply isn't detail oriented or expansive enough in scope to belay prediction by the defense.

Most of the issues I see go toward the detailed aspects of offensive coaching rather than overall philosophical issues. That'd be on the offensive staff.

 

[Ozzy]

If I'm thinking about the correct post, my intention wasn't to make fun of people who question Pete's role. It was to make fun of people who are too emotional with their critiques and end up making contradictory critiques, like holding the beliefs that Pete should both stay out of the offense and also step in more to fix said offense.

I think negative emotions around the team have caused a lot of inconsistent grumblings to pop up. The board may seem fairly united in wanting change, but I think that those who are most vociferous about their complaints, in some cases, aren't making especially coherent or salient points as to what the actual issues are.

I'm not annoyed by having a minority viewpoint. I just hate seeing a lack of ideological consistency and intellectual honesty.

But you could argue this goes both ways as I pointed out. Pete made it sound like all the deep stuff was a point of emphasis and not what you or I would say as some deep shots. So again it’s not being intellectually dishonest to at least raise the question of who’s all at fault when Waldron is doing what Pete says he wants to do, what Seattle has always done and nothing like what the rams offense historically has done. I got killed for saying some of the reason Russ doesn’t throw over the middle is because it’s not the offense Pete wants to run. I got laughed out of the building. Turns out I was right and anyone who listened then or now would know that’s true. Russ is doing it more now in Denver. It’s not his strong point but he does it.

The offense is easily fixable, I don’t think Pete is going to change his philosophy thought and allow a rams style offense anytime soon. But to be fair he did evolve a little on defense after people begged him for years so maybe I’m not being fair

 

[hox]

I’d also add that Pete himself said “we wanted to take them with deep shots” and everyone is blaming Waldron for throwing deep. This tells us two things, Pete is involved in the game plan and he wanted to do what everyone claiming is a Waldron thing. We’ve always played that way under Pete

"Wanted to take them with deep shots" and emphasizing that in their game plan, does not mean calling the same play over and over on 3rd and short though. That is the main issue with Waldron.

Thus Pete's comments after the game:



Again there is nothing wrong with taking deep shots, against one-on-one match ups, where they knew the 9ers would load the box... But on 3rd and short, with the same play over and over? That's a play calling issue.

The good news is that Pete is well aware of the issue. The question now is can he fix it? We will soon find out.

 

[Ozzy]

"Wanted to take them with deep shots" and emphasizing that in their game plan, does not mean calling the same play over and over on 3rd and short though. That is the main issue with Waldron.

Thus Pete's comments after the game:

View attachment 62130

Again there is nothing wrong with taking deep shots, against one-on-one match ups, where they knew the 9ers would load the box... But on 3rd and short, with the same play over and over? That's a play calling issue.

The good news is that Pete is well aware of the issue. The question now is can he fix it? We will soon find out.

But we were saying this during the Wilson years too and Pete has talked repeatedly about how he likes to play offense. This isn’t a one game thing this has been going on for years. I don’t think he’s well aware of the issue nor has he ever been. We don’t see any alternatives in the offense and it predates Waldron. Fade asked it earlier by why don’t we see much flood concepts across the middle of the field? Tight end usage is almost non existent, remember when everyone blamed Russ for that? Is it still his fault we don’t use them?

I know I’m being over the top in some regards but the idea that Pete is going to save the day when he’s involved in every game plan, hears every play come through the radio and at any point can go over to Waldron and tell him to quit calling the same play and yet week after week doesn’t is the same guy who can fix it all just seems odd to me. I’ll be the first to say I hope I’m wrong!

 

[hox]

But we were saying this during the Wilson years too and Pete has talked repeatedly about how he likes to play offense. This isn’t a one game thing this has been going on for years. I don’t think he’s well aware of the issue nor has he ever been. We don’t see any alternatives in the offense and it predates Waldron. Fade asked it earlier by why don’t we see much flood concepts across the middle of the field? Tight end usage is almost non existent, remember when everyone blamed Russ for that? Is it still his fault we don’t use them?

I know I’m being over the top in some regards but the idea that Pete is going to save the day when he’s involved in every game plan, hears every play come through the radio and at any point can go over to Waldron and tell him to quit calling the same play and yet week after week doesn’t is the same guy who can fix it all just seems odd to me. I’ll be the first to say I hope I’m wrong!

Some people didn't like Shotty but I never had a problem with his play calling. During those years, my main issue was why Russ wasn't taking the check downs when film showed on multiple occasions, they were there for the taking. Shotty had cover two beaters in his game plans, but they were not taken by the QB. Kurt Warner pointed this out in his film study.

Honestly, I don't have a lot of confidence that Pete can fix the offense this year either. He trusts his coordinators to come up with the game plans, which he puts his stamp on, but the core issue is hiring those coordinators in the first place.

 

[Ozzy]

I just watched Matt Waldman on twitter breakdown a few Seahawks plays and there are short outlet throws on way more plays than we think. Geno is doing the same thing Russ did and isn’t taking them. On the pick he tried forcing to Lockett there was a tight ed wide open right in front of him.

Not saying you’re wrong and I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I just will have to agree to disagree that a lot of this is on Geno too and he’s struggling to read the field

Some people didn't like Shotty but I never had a problem with his play calling. During those years, my main issue was why Russ wasn't taking the check downs when film showed on multiple occasions, they were there for the taking. Shotty had cover two beaters in his game plans, but they were not taken by the QB. Kurt Warner pointed this out in his film study.

Honestly, I don't have a lot of confidence that Pete can fix the offense this year either. He trusts his coordinators to come up with the game plans, which he puts his stamp on, but the core issue is hiring those coordinators in the first place.

 

[hox]

I just watched Matt Waldman on twitter breakdown a few Seahawks plays and there are short outlet throws on way more plays than we think. Geno is doing the same thing Russ did and isn’t taking them. On the pick he tried forcing to Lockett there was a tight ed wide open right in front of him.

Not saying you’re wrong and I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I just will have to agree to disagree that a lot of this is on Geno too and he’s struggling to read the field

Yeah Geno's not sharp this season. He misses open guys and is trying to force things.

But also take a look at this film discussing 3rd downs (at the 26 min mark):



Everyone is running deep. There are no outlet receivers or hot routes. 9ers show blitz, Waldron calls long developing plays. Can't put that on Geno unless he just failed to audible.

And then we wonder why this team is struggling on 3rd down and redzone.

 

[Appyhawk]

We need to run more, and better, screens when we are losing on the LOS nearly every play we run. That at least helps slow down the rush. We are losing to opponents who are beating us with screens due to our rush running themselves out of the play.
I also think the key to SF's success was our inability to tackle. Our guys were making contact in good order but giving up huge yardage post contact by trying to arm tackle at shoulder height. Correcting that factor alone would have made a major difference in that game.

 

[hawkfan68]

Some people didn't like Shotty but I never had a problem with his play calling. During those years, my main issue was why Russ wasn't taking the check downs when film showed on multiple occasions, they were there for the taking. Shotty had cover two beaters in his game plans, but they were not taken by the QB. Kurt Warner pointed this out in his film study.

Honestly, I don't have a lot of confidence that Pete can fix the offense this year either. He trusts his coordinators to come up with the game plans, which he puts his stamp on, but the core issue is hiring those coordinators in the first place.

Same thing is now happening with Geno.

 

[Ozzy]

Yeah Geno's not sharp this season. He misses open guys and is trying to force things.

But also take a look at this film discussing 3rd downs (at the 26 min mark):



Everyone is running deep. There are no outlet receivers or hot routes. 9ers show blitz, Waldron calls long developing plays. Can't put that on Geno unless he just failed to audible.

And then we wonder why this team is struggling on 3rd down and redzone.

Yep way too many plays like that too.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

I just watched Matt Waldman on twitter breakdown a few Seahawks plays and there are short outlet throws on way more plays than we think. Geno is doing the same thing Russ did and isn’t taking them. On the pick he tried forcing to Lockett there was a tight ed wide open right in front of him.

Not saying you’re wrong and I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I just will have to agree to disagree that a lot of this is on Geno too and he’s struggling to read the field

Geno backing into sacks reminiscent of RWme. It blew my mind the same actions. I had thought we got rid of that play.

 

[hox]

Pete also said if we were 6/11 on 3rd down it would have changed the whole game. He is delusional

Yeah I don't really buy that reasoning. Sure converting 3rd downs gives you more plays to work with, but maybe call better plays on 3rd down?

 

[Ozzy]

Yeah Geno's not sharp this season. He misses open guys and is trying to force things.

But also take a look at this film discussing 3rd downs (at the 26 min mark):



Everyone is running deep. There are no outlet receivers or hot routes. 9ers show blitz, Waldron calls long developing plays. Can't put that on Geno unless he just failed to audible.

And then we wonder why this team is struggling on 3rd down and redzone.

its a completely valid point. Frustrating because a lot of it is fixable I think.

 

[keasley45]

But you could argue this goes both ways as I pointed out. Pete made it sound like all the deep stuff was a point of emphasis and not what you or I would say as some deep shots. So again it’s not being intellectually dishonest to at least raise the question of who’s all at fault when Waldron is doing what Pete says he wants to do, what Seattle has always done and nothing like what the rams offense historically has done. I got killed for saying some of the reason Russ doesn’t throw over the middle is because it’s not the offense Pete wants to run. I got laughed out of the building. Turns out I was right and anyone who listened then or now would know that’s true. Russ is doing it more now in Denver. It’s not his strong point but he does it.

The offense is easily fixable, I don’t think Pete is going to change his philosophy thought and allow a rams style offense anytime soon. But to be fair he did evolve a little on defense after people begged him for years so maybe I’m not being fair

Why does taking a deep shot manifest in a tired, predictable go route to DK up the sideline last week, but the week prior, result in a beautifully timed over route to pick up a huge chunk? Or against the Ravens, again, a deep over to DK for what might have been a game changing play. Except we get in the Redzone and again, the playcalling stinks and we have to settle for 3?

I would think Pete being in the coordinator's ear sounds more like 'lets see if we can hit one here', rather than, ' Shane - call x right, wing left 9 fly, blah blah blah'. Its the coordinator's job to respond to what a coach might recommend. Some here act as though this isnt the kind of thing that happens every week on 31 other teams.

No different than the SB loss when Pete said ' lets pass here' . that decision wasnt the error. it was arguably the play call and execution.

Why does 'taking a shot' result in a stupid play? You can take a shot and still leave your QB better options than what we see game to game. You can take a better shot.

And thats not absolving Pete. Interjecting too much can screw with continuity. But again, an OC shold have a play sheet full of 'hitters' that he can go to if thats whats dialed up.

 

[keasley45]

"Wanted to take them with deep shots" and emphasizing that in their game plan, does not mean calling the same play over and over on 3rd and short though. That is the main issue with Waldron.

Thus Pete's comments after the game:

View attachment 62130

Again there is nothing wrong with taking deep shots, against one-on-one match ups, where they knew the 9ers would load the box... But on 3rd and short, with the same play over and over? That's a play calling issue.

The good news is that Pete is well aware of the issue. The question now is can he fix it? We will soon find out.

Didnt see your post but basically just said the same thing.

 

[Ozzy]

Why does taking a deep shot manifest in a tired, predictable go route to DK up the sideline last week, but the week prior, result in a beautifully timed over route to pick up a huge chunk? Or against the Ravens, again, a deep over to DK for what might have been a game changing play. Except we get in the Redzone and again, the playcalling stinks and we have to settle for 3?

I would think Pete being in the coordinator's ear sounds more like 'lets see if we can hit one here', rather than, ' Shane - call x right, wing left 9 fly, blah blah blah'. Its the coordinator's job to respond to what a coach might recommend. Some here act as though this isnt the kind of thing that happens every week on 31 other teams.

No different than the SB loss when Pete said ' lets pass here' . that decision wasnt the error. it was arguably the play call and execution.

Why does 'taking a shot' result in a stupid play? You can take a shot and still leave your QB better options than what we see game to game. You can take a better shot.

And thats not absolving Pete. Interjecting too much can screw with continuity. But again, an OC shold have a play sheet full of 'hitters' that he can go to if thats whats dialed up.

I really don't disagree with anything you say here. That's what makes it super frustrating, it seems like a process issue that is fixible and then if Geno doesn't execute at least you put him and everyone else in the right spot to succeed.

It's weird because I know Waldron is a super smart football guy, they all are at this level so it feels like we're missing something. Or they just get so caught in the clouds that they can't see it. I'm not sure.

 

[cymatica]

Yeah I don't really buy that reasoning. Sure converting 3rd downs gives you more plays to work with, but maybe call better plays on 3rd down?

Better plays on 1st and 2nd down would help too