Trade up to the number 3 to get Anderson ????

[Rat]

NONE of us know who the Hawks have on their board. NONE of us.

No, but we have more than enough evidence from a decade-plus of drafts to make informed predictions on the kind of players they covet. I could see them on either side of the Carter fence.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough. Still doesn't mean they'll do what we expect. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Furthermore, the roster sucks, and we're seeing teams succeed by building that instead. The Niners are wrecking balls, Philly got their guy in the second, and there are other guys around the league that aren't high picks.

The Niners used four picks in the top 15, three in the top 10 to build their defense over the past six years. The Eagles have two top 15 picks on their defense.

Neither traded down when given the opportunity to get a defensive playmaker high.

After the combine the RESOUNDING consensus from the draft experts is there are only about 10-12 elite 1st round worthy players in this years draft. So no, you don't want the Hawks dropping down out of this range to draft players later in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round that have a much higher probability of not working out.

Top 5 pick comes around once every 20 years for a successful franchise like the Hawks. So when you've got that top 5? You better use it to get a difference maker for the next decade.

Maybe that isn't Carter, but this idea that "hey we can just drop down and get our dudes later in the draft" is absolutely wrong.

 

[ElvisInBlue]

Furthermore, the roster sucks..

It's time to compete now.

See a conflict here?

Yes, we have a lot of draft resources to devote to the defensive inadequacies, however, those players will take time to develop.

By the time they bear fruit your QB will be in his mid thirties, physically declining, and looking for a new contract.

Investing in a QBoTF now doesn’t prevent you from devoting significant draft resources to defense and gives the team a better shot at leveraging an improved roster a couple years down the road.

The above is not even taking into consideration there’s still a chance that Geno‘s ‘22 was an aberration and his production declines to JAG level.

 

[Maelstrom787]

See a conflict here?

Yes, we have a lot of draft resources to devote to the defensive inadequacies, however, those players will take time to develop.

By the time they bear fruit your QB will be in his mid thirties, physically declining, and looking for a new contract.

Investing in a QBoTF now doesn’t prevent you from devoting significant draft resources to defense and gives the team a better shot at leveraging an improved roster a couple years down the road.

The above is not even taking into consideration there’s still a chance that Geno‘s ‘22 was an aberration and his production declines to JAG level.

The thing is that they can compete even WITH the bad roster, as they did last year.

With a war chest of draft capital to devote to the deficient roster, and a quarterback who showed some serious juice last year, it's time to go.

The point being that you don't take a quarterback just because, especially with big time capital. You only take the guy if you're seriously convinced he's it.

 

[Maelstrom787]

NONE of us know who the Hawks have on their board. NONE of us.

We can certainly have educated discussion on it.

Pete and John aren't mysterious. They actually tend to follow some pretty rigid guidelines. No one will ever be able to predict exactly what they'll do, but we can certainly come somewhat close to ruling out certain outcomes based on the large sample size of draft history we've got, plus their own philosophies which they make no effort to hide.

 

[AgentDib]

After the combine the RESOUNDING consensus from the draft experts is there are only about 10-12 elite 1st round worthy players in this years draft.

It might be on the low end of that range and depends on what positions you are looking to draft.

4 QBs - Elite, fit
Will Anderson - Elite, fit
Jalen Carter - Elite, fit, character issue

Bijan Robinson - elite, fit, RB
Christian Gonzalez - elite, fit, CB
Joey Porter Jr - elite, fit, CB
Devon Witherspoon - elite, non-fit, CB

Paris Johnson Jr - half-elite, fit, LT
Tyree Wilson - half-elite, big 12 production, half-fit
Myles Murphy - half-elite, partial-fit

How many of those are you personally comfortable drafting at #5 for the Seahawks? If we're not going QB, RB, CB or LT then it's a list with just Will Anderson on it for me.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

We can certainly have educated discussion on it.

Pete and John aren't mysterious. They actually tend to follow some pretty rigid guidelines. No one will ever be able to predict exactly what they'll do, but we can certainly come somewhat close to ruling out certain outcomes based on the large sample size of draft history we've got, plus their own philosophies which they make no effort to hide.

Never said we couldn't.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It might be on the low end of that range and depends on what positions you are looking to draft.

4 QBs - Elite, fit
Will Anderson - Elite, fit
Jalen Carter - Elite, fit, character issue

Bijan Robinson - elite, fit, RB
Christian Gonzalez - elite, fit, CB
Joey Porter Jr - elite, fit, CB
Devon Witherspoon - elite, non-fit, CB

Paris Johnson Jr - half-elite, fit, LT
Tyree Wilson - half-elite, big 12 production, half-fit
Myles Murphy - half-elite, partial-fit

How many of those are you personally comfortable drafting at #5 for the Seahawks? If we're not going QB, RB, CB or LT then it's a list with just Will Anderson on it for me.

I've said all along if Anderson or Carter aren't there at 5, I'm ok with dropping down a couple picks if we think we can get Wilson or Murphy at that next tier of difference makers.

But to your point, if we think we should drop down, then it's probably going to be VERY hard to find a trade partner who's willing to give up significant draft capital to trade up. Unless they're completely enamored with one of the guys you've listed.

Which is possible. But no, I'm not willing to drop out of the top 10 and risk not getting one of the top 3-4 D-lineman.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Never said we couldn't.

...do you have anything to add to the football discussion, or is it going to be more of the "who, me?" act?

Yes, I know, no one can know who is on the board. Revelatory. Thank you.

 

[ElvisInBlue]

The thing is that they can compete even WITH the bad roster, as they did last year.

With a war chest of draft capital to devote to the deficient roster, and a quarterback who showed some serious juice last year, it's time to go.

The point being that you don't take a quarterback just because, especially with big time capital. You only take the guy if you're seriously convinced he's it.

Being the weakest team in a watered down playoffs isn’t my definition of competing.

Agreed you don’t take a QB @5 unless you see high end potential. I’m in the camp that at least 3 and hopefully 4 (if AR checks the intangibles boxes) are worth the risk.

Unless you already have a true franchise QB, I’m not passing on even a 50% shot at getting one in favor of a really good defender. If there was a truly elite defender in this class that decision would be a lot tougher.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Geezus Maelstrom, relax. I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I'm just pointing out that in MY OPINION they are not as predictable as you are saying.
Get over yourself man. I AM talking football.
Did the team draft like you expected last year? I doubt it.
But, it's an "informed opinion" you have. So everyone else can't have an opinion? Got it.

 

[AgentDib]

I've said all along if Anderson or Carter aren't there at 5, I'm ok with dropping down a couple picks if we think we can get Wilson or Murphy at that next tier of difference makers.

But to your point, if we think we should drop down, then it's probably going to be VERY hard to find a trade partner who's willing to give up significant draft capital to trade up. Unless they're completely enamored with one of the guys you've listed.

Which is possible. But no, I'm not willing to drop out of the top 10 and risk not getting one of the top 3-4 D-lineman.

That's the thing for me; I don't like Murphy as a 3-4 DE, and Wilson is a project as a 3-4 DE based on his mammoth wingspan and lanky frame being able to support a lot more weight. If we take one of those guys we are better off playing them single gap immediately, which we certainly could do, but I don't think they are in a different tier from the next single gap guys (Bresee, Kancey, Ojulari).

It's 100% subjective based on how you feel about the prospects, but I would much rather add Tomi Adebawore, Keion White, and/or Mazi Smith at the end of round 1 or on day 2 if we're looking to add more traditional 3-4 DE personnel. We could also look at some of the bigger guys later on; fits I could see are Gervon Dexter, Keaanu Benton, Zacch Pickens, Byron Young (Alabama), and Jaquelin Roy.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Geezus Maelstrom, relax. I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I'm just pointing out that in MY OPINION they are not as predictable as you are saying.
Get over yourself man. I AM talking football.
Did the team draft like you expected last year? I doubt it.
But, it's an "informed opinion" you have. So everyone else can't have an opinion? Got it.

You weren't talking ball. You did the same act you always do where you act like people are silly for having researched opinions, say a blanket statement about how nobody knows anything for sure which adds nothing to the conversation, and then act like you're being singularly attacked.

You ever wonder why this happens in every thread you post in? You ever stop to think what the common denominator is?

 

[Rat]

IMO a healed and conditioned Hooker has every bit as much chance of being a hit as any other QB in this draft, with the possible exception of Richardson. The thing about Richardson is while he has incredible physical advantages he didn't progress more rapidly in other respects. Why not? A primary reason would be that maybe he doesn't have so much ability in the most important advantage of them all.
Seems like there should be measurables for that at the combine.

I'm fine with gambling on Carter at #5.

Agreed on all this. I know QBs taken after the first round (even second round guys) have an extremely low hit rate, but I feel really good about Hooker's chances of having a successful NFL career. Without the injury, I think he'd have a lot of first round hype anyway.

If we could land Anderson at 5, O'Cyrus Torrence or Cancey at 20, and Hooker with that first second rounder... wow, I would be hyped.

 

[Chawker]

What if ? The draft goes QB 1, 2, 3, 4, we wouldn't have to trade up.

Sometimes just let them come to you.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

You weren't talking ball. You did the same act you always do where you act like people are silly for having researched opinions, say a blanket statement about how nobody knows anything for sure which adds nothing to the conversation, and then act like you're being singularly attacked.

You ever wonder why this happens in every thread you post in? You ever stop to think what the common denominator is?

Feel free to put me on ignore.
Or, feel free to piss off. So there is that.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

What if ? The draft goes QB 1, 2, 3, 4, we wouldn't have to trade up.

Sometimes just let them come to you.

That's the dream scenario.

Is there a team willing to give up multiple picks this year and a 1st next year for Will Levis?

Cause that's what it'd take to get Arizona to drop down past us.

I don't see that happening, but it's possible. I think every team behind us in the top 10 knows we're not drafting a QB, as much as Pete and John are pretending that's a big possibility. So if there's a trade up for Levis, it's probably happening behind us, not with Arizona.

 

[RiverDog]

Why on earth would you think we don't even have Carter on our board?

Because of this:

Based on Schneider's comments, it will interesting to see whether or not Georgia star defensive tackle Jalen Carter remains on their big board after being charged with two misdemeanors for racing and reckless driving in Georgia on Wednesday. Based on their recent track record following the McDowell fiasco, such a red flag may take him out of consideration, depending how things play out in coming weeks with his legal situation.

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/seattle-seahawks-john-schneider-reflects-lessons-learned-draft-scouting-combine

Although I can't find the specific quote, apparently Schneider said recently that they had a great deal of success with their 2022 draft because they put a premium on character, which leads me to believe that Carter is not on their board, at least not in the top 10.

 

[RiverDog]

It's an informed opinion to have. It's a likely reality, considering the front office being fairly strict about off-field red flags from 2018 onward. They've been transparent about how they strictly want to look for mature, reliable players for the organization and how they've enormously shrunk their draft board since the McDowell incident.

Carter has pretty severely failed the "reliable" part. There could still be a chance for him, but the front office has become more predictable than they used to be in a few ways.

Bingo.

There's been a lot of people comparing the McDowell pick with the predicament we're currently in with Carter. With what's at stake, our highest pick that this regime has ever had, I don't think they're in the mood to be taking any chances when it comes to character issues.

Besides the racing thing, there's also this concern about his not having a high motor, that he takes plays off, that he's being supported by a superior cast. Add all that up and I don't think he's on our board.

Now if he were to drop all the way to our #20 overall, something that's pretty unlikely, then they'd probably pull the trigger on him.