Pete caused the Adams fiasco from the start

BirdsCommaAngry

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JS gave up too much for him. Pete misused him. Injuries suck. JA probably has no shortage of things he would do differently. There's no simple target for blame here. If there's a multiverse with a bunch of JA trades happening, we probably got one of the bottom tier outcomes for how this could have gone. It sucks. Oh well. Time to move on.
 

BigMeach

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Do you think that Williams being seven years older and had only one second team All-Pro five years before during his nine year career to that point, while Adams had been at least second team All-Pro in each of his three seasons might have had something to do with the price difference?
Of course it did, but you're making it seem like it was the norm to give away the farm in trade value for players at that time. It wasn't.
 

ZagHawk

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I wanna see Bobby retire and eventually tell his truth of how everything went. He probably will not because he is a true professional, but I would love to read his take.
 

pittpnthrs

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I wanna see Bobby retire and eventually tell his truth of how everything went. He probably will not because he is a true professional, but I would love to read his take.

Bobby is a class act and probably won't, but man I wish somebody would. A few come close, but reel it in so nobody gets hurt.
 

strohmin

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I will say though that the idea that Pete botched things isnt necessaril wrong. I just think the reason is for the stupid way he chose to use Jamal. John has preached versatility and flexing the D to suit your players. So much so that he hired a coach who beleives in it as much as he does.

Pete beleived in the players fitting the system... to a fault. THAT was the failure - FORCING Jamal to play in the defense the way Pete wanted him to, rather than seeing it John's way and putting Jamal in the spot that would maximize his ability.

The trade didnt HAVE to be a failure. Utilization and ultimately injury made it so. THAT much you can feel when you listen to Schneider talk about it.

He did the same thing with Jimmy Graham. He took one of the best pass catching tight ends and turned him into a lineman.
 

BASF

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He did the same thing with Jimmy Graham. He took one of the best pass catching tight ends and turned him into a lineman.
This is the weirdest thing to me. He averaged seven targets his first year, then six in each of his other two. Even with just eleven games played in his first season his seventy-four targets was higher than any TE in Seahawks history. His two healthy seasons, he had ninety-five and ninety-six targets. If people expected him to not block in our scheme, the question is why?
 

NoGain

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I think people just expected more out of Graham. He averaged roughly 89 catches and 1100 yards per year over his time spent in NO, and roughly 57 catches and 682 yards per year with the Hawks. There were those who thought he would be targeted like he was in NO with Brees, as RW was seen as a top NFL QB at the time. I admit to thinking that he wasn't targeted enough at times by RW and the Hawks given his pedigree upon his arrival to the team. I wasn't in a tizzy over it, but it did enter my mind at the time.
 

pittpnthrs

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If people expected him to not block in our scheme, the question is why?

Because he can't and he never could. If Graham is on the field, you use him as a WR (what he does best) and leave the blocking to somebody else. Its not hard to understand that.

I actually feel bad for Graham. He was on his way to Canton before landing in Seattle.
 

strohmin

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This is the weirdest thing to me. He averaged seven targets his first year, then six in each of his other two. Even with just eleven games played in his first season his seventy-four targets was higher than any TE in Seahawks history. His two healthy seasons, he had ninety-five and ninety-six targets. If people expected him to not block in our scheme, the question is why?
I expected him not to block because he wanted to be paid and treated like a receiver in New Orleans so I dont know where Pete got the idea he was going to become even an average blocker. As dissappointing as his tenure with the hawks was, I give him credit for being professional and trying to block even though he was terrible at it. We gave away Unger who was actually really good for us at the time. I honestly believe that his career was ruined in Seattle.
 
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IndyHawk

IndyHawk

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I expected him not to block because he wanted to be paid and treated like a receiver in New Orleans so I dont know where Pete got the idea he was going to become even an average blocker. As dissappointing as his tenure with the hawks was, I give him credit for being professional and trying to block even though he was terrible at it. We gave away Unger who was actually really good for us at the time. I honestly believe that his career was ruined in Seattle.
Another Pete move of course "We'll make it work!"
When all he had to do was let Jimmy be Jimmy ..
The moves do not happen without Pete's directive or ok.
 

12th Dimension

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My bet would be, we took Graham to help Russ see the middle of the field and quickly realized it wasn't going to fix the issues. We salvaged it as best we could.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I'd make that trade almost every time.
 

BASF

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The Graham trade was a direct result of our lack of big red zone targets forcing us to fail with Lockette in the Super Bowl. Graham was a monster in the red zone for the Saints. The difference when here was Sean Payton was not designing plays and Wilson could never hold Brees' jock as far as pocket passing and getting the ball where it needed to be on time.
 

Palmegranite

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It has been correctly pointed out to me, that Jimmy Graham put up quite respectable numbers when he was with Seattle, including a carreer best avg. yds per catch one year.
And he didn't exactly light things up when he moved on to Green Bay.

Question: Of Brees and Rodgers, who's holding who's jock?
 

themunn

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Everything about Graham's 3 years has to be looked at in aggregate of the rest of the offense:

In 2015 he missed 5 games and only put up 2 TDs, so undeniably this was a failure of a year, especially given that the last 8 games is where we went on a tear, and Baldwin scored 8 TDs in the 5 games JG missed. But how much of that came about because Lynch went down injured in week 3. Rawls picked up some of the slack but was also a bit boom and bust with some incredible games and some invisible games too.

2016 is the year that Wilson was injured in week 1, and had undoubtably his worst year as a Seahawk, but Graham put up nearly 1000 yards and 6 TDs, pretty much 25% of our receiving output that season.

2017 was the year of no running backs and arguably Wilson's best year, Graham had a down year in yards but did hit double digit TDs.

I still think it was the right trade at the time, but unfortunately a lot of other things went wrong that negated it.
 

BASF

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It has been correctly pointed out to me, that Jimmy Graham put up quite respectable numbers when he was with Seattle, including a carreer best avg. yds per catch one year.
And he didn't exactly light things up when he moved on to Green Bay.

Question: Of Brees and Rodgers, who's holding who's jock?
Weirdly they can each hold each others jocks equally while staring lovingly into each others eyes.

Graham's time in Green Bay can be equated to having been at an advanced age for a TE at thirty-two years old and had an injury history with his legs and was heavier than his Saints days. The main problem with Graham's days with the Seahawks was the expectations of Seahawk fans.
 
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Hawkinaz

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I think people just expected more out of Graham. He averaged roughly 89 catches and 1100 yards per year over his time spent in NO, and roughly 57 catches and 682 yards per year with the Hawks. There were those who thought he would be targeted like he was in NO with Brees, as RW was seen as a top NFL QB at the time. I admit to thinking that he wasn't targeted enough at times by RW and the Hawks given his pedigree upon his arrival to the team. I wasn't in a tizzy over it, but it did enter my mind at the time.
Using Graham like NO did would have been the logical thing to do, or maybe ask Graham what plays was he most comfortable with. I think he was at his best running stick routes from the slot against zone defenses and just sit in a seam. It was the same thing I was hoping the Seahawks would have done when they tried Terrell Pryor as a receiver
 
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