just wait and see. He is a Dline guru.

Irvin needs to get bigger, or move to OLB. His biggest problem is getting manhandled.

Irvin needs to hang out with Russell more and learn how to prepare for a job the right way. No more running around like a chicken with its head cut off

I feel like Irvin needs a little weight (he's only 9lbs lighter than clem), but his main issue is technique. Quinn will work with him.

Von Miller is ~237lbs and it doesn't hurt his pass rush. Obviously different scheme but when he does pass rush its not a big deal.

FlyingGreg wrote:Irvin needs to get bigger, or move to OLB. His biggest problem is getting manhandled.

He may just end up being a pass-rush specialist. He may never become an every down lineman.

But if he gets 8–12 sacks a year in a specialized role, that would be OK too.

I hope so because the dude sure could use it.

I think he is destined to permanently man the Raheem Brock role. If he comes in on passing situations and gets 10+ sacks, he will be doing his job

T-Sizzle wrote:I feel like Irvin needs a little weight (he's only 9lbs lighter than clem), but his main issue is technique. Quinn will work with him.

Aldon Smith is only about 10 lbs heavier than Irvin. So I don't think it's a weight issue......like you said it's a technique/inexperience issue.

Quinn will help, but IMO Irvin just needs more time to work on his technique and schemes so that he's no longer thinking, he's just playing. Speed kills, but what kills speed is thinking.

Irvin will be fine. Tate, Earl, Kam all stunk up the joint in year 1. Arguably worse than Bruce did.

I know we hold Earl up on a pedastal here, but he got USED by any QB not a rookie in year 1.

Irvin was pretty dang raw coming into the league. He played end in a 3-4 at WVU! He's had little time to play end in a 4-3 and we all knew that it would take time for him to maximize his potential.

Even though he was so saw he still led all rookies in sacks. It's funny, most were very high on him before the ATL game and when he disappointed, a lot of those same people now claim that he's nothing more than a situational player or he needs a new position...

pehawk wrote:Irvin will be fine. Tate, Earl, Kam all stunk up the joint in year 1. Arguably worse than Bruce did.

I know we hold Earl up on a pedastal here, but he got USED by any QB not a rookie in year 1.

DE is a totally different animal than WR, FS, SS.

FlyingGreg wrote:

pehawk wrote:Irvin will be fine. Tate, Earl, Kam all stunk up the joint in year 1. Arguably worse than Bruce did.

I know we hold Earl up on a pedastal here, but he got USED by any QB not a rookie in year 1.

DE is a totally different animal than WR, FS, SS.

Umm, yeah, that helps my point.

FlyingGreg wrote:

pehawk wrote:Irvin will be fine. Tate, Earl, Kam all stunk up the joint in year 1. Arguably worse than Bruce did.

I know we hold Earl up on a pedastal here, but he got USED by any QB not a rookie in year 1.

DE is a totally different animal than WR, FS, SS.

That wasn't his point. It was that some players (regardless of position) take time to acclimate to the NFL.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

T-Sizzle wrote:I feel like Irvin needs a little weight (he's only 9lbs lighter than clem), but his main issue is technique. Quinn will work with him.

Aldon Smith is only about 10 lbs heavier than Irvin. So I don't think it's a weight issue......like you said it's a technique/inexperience issue.

Quinn will help, but IMO Irvin just needs more time to work on his technique and schemes so that he's no longer thinking, he's just playing. Speed kills, but what kills speed is thinking.

Everyone is built differently. 10 pounds on Aldon Smith is different than 10 pounds on Bruce Irvin. Smith has longer arms and is a bit taller, and I'd guess more than 10 pounds heavier anyways.

Refined technique will definitely help Irvin out. He needs to work on not just getting carried out of the action with his speed.

Hawkfan77 wrote:

FlyingGreg wrote:

pehawk wrote:Irvin will be fine. Tate, Earl, Kam all stunk up the joint in year 1. Arguably worse than Bruce did.

I know we hold Earl up on a pedastal here, but he got USED by any QB not a rookie in year 1.

DE is a totally different animal than WR, FS, SS.

That wasn't his point. It was that some players (regardless of position) take time to acclimate to the NFL.

PE is perfectly capable of explaining himself, he doesn't need your training wheels.

It took 3 years for Tate to 'get' it. Sidney Rice took 3 years to 'get' it. It took our safeties a year to 'get' it. And so on and so on. We're kind of spoiled because Russell Wilson is so intelligent he already 'gets' it, but he's the exception. Irvin will continue to get better. How much remains to be seen, but PC and JS didn't pick him based on his high floor, you know?

pehawk wrote:Irvin will be fine. Tate, Earl, Kam all stunk up the joint in year 1. Arguably worse than Bruce did.

I know we hold Earl up on a pedastal here, but he got USED by any QB not a rookie in year 1.

Ahem! Rivers.

FlyingGreg wrote:
PE is perfectly capable of explaining himself, he doesn't need your training wheels.

Maybe he didn't but you did...

pehawk wrote:

FlyingGreg wrote:

pehawk wrote:Irvin will be fine. Tate, Earl, Kam all stunk up the joint in year 1. Arguably worse than Bruce did.

I know we hold Earl up on a pedastal here, but he got USED by any QB not a rookie in year 1.

DE is a totally different animal than WR, FS, SS.

Umm, yeah, that helps my point.

Not really. Developing as a WR, FS, and SS is more about the cerebral aspect of the game and learning it. Yes, Irvin needs that as well.

But the bigger concern is does he have the strength and size he needs? I'm not so sure. You can't just use speed as an edge rusher in the NFL - as we saw, tackles just learned to ride him right out of the pocket over and over again. Technique is a big part of that, but he needs to be able to attack with strength as well.

Football technique is a bigger problem for Irvin than his size (added football to avoid "that's what she said" joke). Dan Quinn could legitimately have an impact there. I still think that Irvin is so far away that it would require a revelatory transformation to see him as a 3 down player. But if anyone could do it, Quinn could.

FlyingGreg wrote:

pehawk wrote:Umm, yeah, that helps my point.

Not really. Developing as a WR, FS, and SS is more about the cerebral aspect of the game and learning it. Yes, Irvin needs that as well.

But the bigger concern is does he have the strength and size he needs? I'm not so sure. You can't just use speed as an edge rusher in the NFL - as we saw, tackles just learned to ride him right out of the pocket over and over again. Technique is a big part of that, but he needs to be able to attack with strength as well.

Most DE have slow development, isn't it kinda notorious for having a large learning curve?

kearly wrote:Football technique is a bigger problem for Irvin than his size (added football to avoid "that's what she said" joke). Dan Quinn could legitimately have an impact there. I still think that Irvin is so far away that it would require a revelatory transformation to see him as a 3 down player. But if anyone could do it, Quinn could.

Agreed, but "bigger" problem still means his size could be a problem. I don't know that it is...it just seems like it could be.

JKent82 wrote:

FlyingGreg wrote:

pehawk wrote:Umm, yeah, that helps my point.

Not really. Developing as a WR, FS, and SS is more about the cerebral aspect of the game and learning it. Yes, Irvin needs that as well.

But the bigger concern is does he have the strength and size he needs? I'm not so sure. You can't just use speed as an edge rusher in the NFL - as we saw, tackles just learned to ride him right out of the pocket over and over again. Technique is a big part of that, but he needs to be able to attack with strength as well.

Most DE have slow development, isn't it kinda notorious for having a large learning curve?

Yep.

FlyingGreg wrote:

kearly wrote:Football technique is a bigger problem for Irvin than his size (added football to avoid "that's what she said" joke). Dan Quinn could legitimately have an impact there. I still think that Irvin is so far away that it would require a revelatory transformation to see him as a 3 down player. But if anyone could do it, Quinn could.

Agreed, but "bigger" problem still means his size could be a problem. I don't know that it is...it just seems like it could be.

He is 9lbs lighter than Clem. <---------- Why does everyone here ignore that? Size is not a problem.

I actually love the arguements others are making on my behalf.

I could care less if Bruce ever gets it mentally. He just needs technique. And, IMO, for professional athletes it'll always be easier to learn new techniques than increase their in-game IQ.

And Scott, ahem, Brees. Brees made Earl look like me at safety.

T-Sizzle wrote:

FlyingGreg wrote:

kearly wrote:Football technique is a bigger problem for Irvin than his size (added football to avoid "that's what she said" joke). Dan Quinn could legitimately have an impact there. I still think that Irvin is so far away that it would require a revelatory transformation to see him as a 3 down player. But if anyone could do it, Quinn could.

Agreed, but "bigger" problem still means his size could be a problem. I don't know that it is...it just seems like it could be.

He is 9lbs lighter than Clem. <---------- Why does everyone here ignore that? Size is not a problem.

It's not being ignored. As I said earlier, everyone is built differently. It's not just about raw weight differential, it gets into biophysical aspects like muscle fiber, tone, center of gravity, shoulder span, arm length, etc. Clemons looks a little more stout to me.

If you watch Clemons and you watch Irvin, you can't possibly tell me you don't see a difference in the strength aspect of how they attack an offensive linemen. Again, that could come from technique. But it's perfectly acceptable to wonder if Irvin has enough sand in his bag so to speak. I don't get why people are getting so defensive about it.

As a 3rd down pass rush specialist exclusively, I think he'll be o.k.

I agree with Kearly, PeHawk. He could really gain a lot from coaching. He is a tall guy and has too narrow of a base. Most of all he does not use his leverage well at all.

I think he will be pretty good once he figures it out. A swim type move would help, I would not call what he is doing adequate.

I don't see him as a 3 down player. He is just not the right body. His legs are to thin and long and he has trouble shedding blockers if they run right at him

Quinn can help, but Bruce has to take the lessons being taught to him and actually use them and work on them constantly. Kinda like how Russell, week by week, always seemed to improve a part of his game that the previous week seemed to be some type of weakness, like 3rd down conversions, redzone, etc.

Hawkfan77 wrote:Irvin was pretty dang raw coming into the league. He played end in a 3-4 at WVU! He's had little time to play end in a 4-3 and we all knew that it would take time for him to maximize his potential.

Even though he was so saw he still led all rookies in sacks. It's funny, most were very high on him before the ATL game and when he disappointed, a lot of those same people now claim that he's nothing more than a situational player or he needs a new position...

Welcome to .net, where hyperbole and overreaction are the norm.

8 sacks in a rookie season is pretty good. Especially as a situational pass-rusher. I'm not disappointed, although I do look forward to seeing what Quinn can do with him.

HansGruber wrote:

Hawkfan77 wrote:Irvin was pretty dang raw coming into the league. He played end in a 3-4 at WVU! He's had little time to play end in a 4-3 and we all knew that it would take time for him to maximize his potential.

Even though he was so saw he still led all rookies in sacks. It's funny, most were very high on him before the ATL game and when he disappointed, a lot of those same people now claim that he's nothing more than a situational player or he needs a new position...

Welcome to .net, where hyperbole and overreaction are the norm.

If it was up to the .net majority Flynn would have been the starter this year.

Blitzer88 wrote:Quinn can help, but Bruce has to take the lessons being taught to him and actually use them and work on them constantly. Kinda like how Russell, week by week, always seemed to improve a part of his game that the previous week seemed to be some type of weakness, like 3rd down conversions, redzone, etc.

DE and QB are two different animals, and Wilson is in a class of his own.
Most rookies hit a wall. Just because Irvin had trouble playing leo the first game at the position doesn't mean he won't improve.

wait.... NO MORE SOFT ZONE? Idk guys, I can smell 13-3 or 14-2 now.....

It took Clem 5 years in the league plus Pete Carroll and Dan Quinn before he did shit. And he didn't record a sack until his 3rd game playing Leo. Bruce will be fine. He had 8 fricken sacks this year!

how many sacks did mario williams have his rookie year???

bruce gets 15 next year...callin it now.