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 Post subject: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:33 am 
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Or maybe even fast forward to the playoffs.....

Don't get me wrong, I am quite fine with scoring 28 points a game, and making the most out of our redzone possessions. But is there a point this year, or next year, where Bevell's just gonna let Russ go and throw it all over the place? He kinda did in the Pats game, but that was probably due to Lynch's ineffectiveness. When are we gonna fully unleash Russell Wilson? Because the only performance I've really failed to see from Russell is one with a lot of passing yards, and I'm very curious to see if he can do it.

Or is it likely this is the only thing Wilson can have success with, a ground and pound attack 24/7?


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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:36 am 
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Let me say this, by 2013 Wilson will be the steal in fantasy football drafts as he'll be putting up lots of points.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:36 am 
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I cannot see a time when this staff does not want a run centric balanced attack.

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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:23 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
I cannot see a time when this staff does not want a run centric balanced attack.


This, but it should also be noted that if Wilson is the field general for a balanced attack that doesn't generate lots of passing opportunities - by design - that does not indicate that it's the only thing at which he can be successful.

I think we've seen more passing from Wilson in situations where the opponent is dedicated to taking Lynch away or when the Seahawks are down by more than one score. For example, consider the Detroit game. Outside of Lynch's 77-yard TD run, here are his runs in the first half:

-2, 1, 6, -3, -1, 2

It was clear (at least to me) that Detroit was focused primarily on stopping Lynch and our run game, and it showed in the numbers. Lynch's 77-yard run was great, but outside of that, we were barely getting 3 yards per carry. And so the coaches called Wilson's number more often, giving him 35 attempts. He completed over 70% of them at 6.7 YPA and had the Seahawks ahead late in the 4th quarter. While there's always room for improvement (the INT on the miscommunication with Rice was bad), that kind of performance on the road suggests to me that Wilson CAN be a guy who throws 40 times per game if the situation calls for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:23 am 
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Wilson will get more attempts next year, but I don't foresee a huge Aaron Rodgers like jump to 50 pass attempts a game. Balanced and focus, with an emphasis on clock management and TDs, will likely continue as our M.O. However, because I think the offense will be better next year, we might see Wilson's numbers go up as a side effect of the offense being on the field more often.

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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:36 am 
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I think we're already unleashing him. The only reason his numbers were down in this game was because we were ahead big in the second half and were running the clock out. They've already shown they'll put it in his hands when it counts. And the called QB runs yesterday - for really the first time all year - I think are an indication that they're finally letting him loose to be somewhat of a threat to run. They've seen he stands in the pocket when he needs to, a huge improvement over the first of the year, and so it's time to let him do his thing.

Compare him these past few games with the first few games. Stark, stark contrast.

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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:44 am 
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Agree with Seahawk Sailor here. I can see them "unleashing" him in the form of Wilson rushing more, and running that read option a bit more often.

Carroll, Bevel, and Cable all believe that you have to run the ball a lot. They want balance, but our pass game is based off of play action, and play action becomes deadly when your run game is as good as ours. Once our pass game becomes more established, teams will have to respect both; it will cause indecision in both phases against our offense.

Throw in some designed QB runs and read options, and it will be a very difficult offense to stop. I can see them tailoring it on a game by game basis, dictated by our opponent and schemes they run and weaknesses they show. I really like that Wilson doesn't take unnecessary hits. This will validate a read option a lot more than with an RG3, who takes too many hits for his frame. This could be really fun to watch next year, especially if we can increase our top end talent on the OL.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:25 am 
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I agree with most here that he'll at times have more opportunities to throw but I can't see this team ever not being a run oriented offense.

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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:27 am 
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I don't think we will see Aaron Rogers II any time soon. They like balance most of all. I expect to see improvements in the execution of the offenses fundamentals this in turn will include more liberty for RW to read and react with audibles.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:08 am 
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I would rather stick around the 30 passes a game (give or take 5 or 6). I like balanced offenses. I also think Russell is one of those QB's who can get to where he is completing a lot closer to 70% of his throws than 60%. I just see a 23/24 for 300 yard game sometime for him. He's smart and he's accurate.

That throw yesterday where he slid sideways and threw a seed in a pretty tight window made me weak-kneed and slack-jawed. I just love this kid.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:33 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
I cannot see a time when this staff does not want a run centric balanced attack.


This, but it should also be noted that if Wilson is the field general for a balanced attack that doesn't generate lots of passing opportunities - by design - that does not indicate that it's the only thing at which he can be successful.

I think we've seen more passing from Wilson in situations where the opponent is dedicated to taking Lynch away or when the Seahawks are down by more than one score. For example, consider the Detroit game. Outside of Lynch's 77-yard TD run, here are his runs in the first half:

-2, 1, 6, -3, -1, 2

It was clear (at least to me) that Detroit was focused primarily on stopping Lynch and our run game, and it showed in the numbers. Lynch's 77-yard run was great, but outside of that, we were barely getting 3 yards per carry. And so the coaches called Wilson's number more often, giving him 35 attempts. He completed over 70% of them at 6.7 YPA and had the Seahawks ahead late in the 4th quarter. While there's always room for improvement (the INT on the miscommunication with Rice was bad), that kind of performance on the road suggests to me that Wilson CAN be a guy who throws 40 times per game if the situation calls for it.


that.

And the fact Bevell has been quick to dial up PA and trick passes says that RW is no longer just managing games. RW and the passing game is quickly becoming the weapon in Bevell's offense and it takes great discipline to remind ourselves we must continue to feed the ground game for balance.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:49 am 
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The philosophy is built on run first offense, I see too many intangibles to ignore when you become a pass happy offense. One game that comes to mind is the NE game where Tom Brady threw for a ton of yards and still ended up losing the game. The other team that comes to mind who are pass happy are the Detroit Lions. Last year, they scored so many points and still was not able to sustain when it came to the end. I would argue if their RB Jahvid Best was healthy, they could have been unbeatable in the playoffs. The point is defense can take out your 1, 2 WRs and your game becomes one dimensional and then nothing works. I can think of a few other reasons

Clock management
If you don't set up the run first and the RB does not get enough touches, he almost never can get the yards later on
Wearing down the defense
Weather becomes less of a factor
Its easier for a backup QB to come in if required if a strong running game is established early
Keeping the opposing QB not being on the field
Chances of losing the ball on the air is higher than losing it on the ground

For the long haul, I always feel a good ground game should be the focus and the passing game should compliment the ground game.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:08 pm 
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Our defense wont allow RW to throw 30+ passes a game. It is unlikely we will ever be behind in a game unless the offense completely craps the bed. Even when our D isn't playing too well, they have a knack to limit offenses to field goals. With the emphasis Pete puts on the running game, even if not working, he is going to stick with it throughout the game. He will most likely continue to throw more TDs in games, but I can see him consistently in the 200-250 yard range for the next few seasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:02 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Starrman44 wrote:
I would rather stick around the 30 passes a game (give or take 5 or 6). I like balanced offenses. I also think Russell is one of those QB's who can get to where he is completing a lot closer to 70% of his throws than 60%. I just see a 23/24 for 300 yard game sometime for him. He's smart and he's accurate.

That throw yesterday where he slid sideways and threw a seed in a pretty tight window made me weak-kneed and slack-jawed. I just love this kid.

You got that right, because once Wilson has the O-line clicking, the sky's the limit.
A ballanced attack, more running in some games, and more passing in others will happen, but Pete loves ball control, so I see him using the run first approach, (Chuck Knox) which is hard to argue against.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:52 pm 
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I think Wilson is fully unleashed right now. He's providing scoring on an incredibly efficient basis. His TD per pass attempt rate is one of the higher marks in the league.

Wilson is a natural born point guard at QB. Part of that profile means that he exists to makes his teammates (read: running game) better. Those kinds of QBs aren't about stealing the show and posting 500 yard games. If you take that kind of QB out of a run centric environment, he typically suffers. We saw this with UW in September when Keith Price suffered from the slow start of Bishop Sankey.

That plus Pete Carroll does not care about yards or even scoring- all he cares about is winning. To him, a 3-0 win is just as good as a 63-0 win. He wants to control the game, because if the Seahawks control the game on both sides of the ball they usually win. Wilson is providing value by being consistent and keeping the offense under control. It would be a disservice to call him a game manager, because game managers typically aren't playmakers and Wilson is a playmaker, but it is a similar situation in that Wilson's real role is to be the manager of the offense.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:55 pm 
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kearly wrote:
I think Wilson is fully unleashed right now. He's providing scoring on an incredibly efficient basis. His TD per pass attempt rate is one of the higher marks in the league.

Wilson is a natural born point guard at QB. Part of that profile means that he exists to makes his teammates (read: running game) better. Those kinds of QBs aren't about stealing the show and posting 500 yard games. If you take that kind of QB out of a run centric environment, he typically suffers. We saw this with UW in September when Keith Price suffered from the slow start of Bishop Sankey.

That plus Pete Carroll does not care about yards or even scoring- all he cares about is winning. To him, a 3-0 win is just as good as a 63-0 win. He wants to control the game, because if the Seahawks control the game on both sides of the ball they usually win. Wilson is providing value by being consistent and keeping the offense under control. It would be a disservice to call him a game manager, because game managers typically aren't playmakers and Wilson is a playmaker, but it is a similar situation in that Wilson's real role is to be the manager of the offense.


We need a new word for what Wilson is. Something like chessmaster or Grand Vizier.

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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:23 pm 
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i don't think he is "unleashed" yet

I think the team as a whole knows Wilson better. By this I mean the team is getting better at playing together. I also think there is more going into the game plans every week. The depth and breadth of what Wilson can do at the line of scrimmage is part of what is going to grow.

Put it this way. Musicians can play a song on request, but it takes a while for them to get together and really jam and make their own interesting music.

I do think we are approaching the second half of the season with far more at Wilson's disposal then when the season starts. For me, I am really interested in those second looks coming up against the Rams, Cardinals, and 49ers. In many ways this will give a hint of what we might see in 2013 and the playoffs. I think a second look at teams will be huge for how Wilson studies the game. I am sure there are plenty of things the Seahawk's will draw upon from their own very real physical previous involvement in playing these teams that will illuminate how to tackle these teams a second time.

2013 will be interesting because it represents a year when the QB decision is behind the team. Carrol hasn't had that yet with the Hawks. What that means at the QB position, or the entire offensive playbook and what this team can plan for all off season before the week one next year.... I think this will have a dramatic impact to who the Hawks are on offense.

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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:17 pm 
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I can see Pete going to a more of a Chip Kelly style after everything is gelling on O

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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:23 pm 
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Running the ball is tremendously valuable to us in terms of wearing down opponents and keeping defenses guessing. The only teams that can sustain 70%-30% pass-run ratios are teams with hyper-accurate, lightning-fast-diagnosing, veteran-defense-reading, perfectly-in-sync-with-receivers QB's like Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Manning, and those teams aren't immune to defeat either.

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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:42 pm 
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hawksfan515 wrote:
Or maybe even fast forward to the playoffs.....

Don't get me wrong, I am quite fine with scoring 28 points a game, and making the most out of our redzone possessions. But is there a point this year, or next year, where Bevell's just gonna let Russ go and throw it all over the place? He kinda did in the Pats game, but that was probably due to Lynch's ineffectiveness. When are we gonna fully unleash Russell Wilson? Because the only performance I've really failed to see from Russell is one with a lot of passing yards, and I'm very curious to see if he can do it.

Or is it likely this is the only thing Wilson can have success with, a ground and pound attack 24/7?


Two passing touchdowns in less than 200 yards of passing is a GOOD problem to have with your rookie quarterback. It means you are efficiently moving the football and likely chewing up lots of clock with a running game. You won't rack up a lot of yardage when you eat up 7-10 minutes of game clock on a successful touchdown drive.

The most important stat for a rookie quarterback, in my opinion, is passing touchdowns. The second most important is the touchdown to interception ratio. Our rookie quarterback excels in both statistics and has placed us in position to have a shot at winning every single game we've played this season.

When will we fully unleash him? What does this mean, exactly? We are letting the kid uncork 50 yard bombs that would make most coaches cringe with someone else at the position. We are calling naked bootlegs to utilize his athleticism for cheap easy yards. What else does he have to show us, other than consistent, rapidly improving performance? Are you suggesting that we abandon our highly successful running game so that Russell can dink and dunk down the field, throwing 35-40 times a game?

Ignoring the fact that Russell Wilson is a rising star in this league, what we have right now is a team that is built to run the ball down the throat of any team in the NFL. Running the football successfully paves the way for play action. Play action paves the way for third and fourth quarter TD bombs which look awesome on the highlight reel. Nothing opens up the deep field like fear of a runner like Marshawn Lynch, and an O-Line which can help him grind it out.

Let me ask you this. Which would you rather watch, a Seahawks team that slowly, methodically moves the ball downfield to score via the pass but gets beat up by physical teams in the run game, or a Seahawks team that beats the living crap out of the other team, delivering the knockout punch in the fourth quarter, in true highlight reel fashion? The way our offense is built is a testament to the attitude that Carroll and Schneider have instilled in this team. We make teams want to run home to mommy with big linemen, big corners, a big running back, and this midget QB who can throw a deep ball like precious few others have. Truly, Russel's deep accuracy is a gift from the football gods.

Would you compromise this team's identity just to see him throw the ball more?

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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:06 am 
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SmokinHawk wrote:
hawksfan515 wrote:
Or maybe even fast forward to the playoffs.....

Don't get me wrong, I am quite fine with scoring 28 points a game, and making the most out of our redzone possessions. But is there a point this year, or next year, where Bevell's just gonna let Russ go and throw it all over the place? He kinda did in the Pats game, but that was probably due to Lynch's ineffectiveness. When are we gonna fully unleash Russell Wilson? Because the only performance I've really failed to see from Russell is one with a lot of passing yards, and I'm very curious to see if he can do it.

Or is it likely this is the only thing Wilson can have success with, a ground and pound attack 24/7?


Two passing touchdowns in less than 200 yards of passing is a GOOD problem to have with your rookie quarterback. It means you are efficiently moving the football and likely chewing up lots of clock with a running game. You won't rack up a lot of yardage when you eat up 7-10 minutes of game clock on a successful touchdown drive.

The most important stat for a rookie quarterback, in my opinion, is passing touchdowns. The second most important is the touchdown to interception ratio. Our rookie quarterback excels in both statistics and has placed us in position to have a shot at winning every single game we've played this season.

When will we fully unleash him? What does this mean, exactly? We are letting the kid uncork 50 yard bombs that would make most coaches cringe with someone else at the position. We are calling naked bootlegs to utilize his athleticism for cheap easy yards. What else does he have to show us, other than consistent, rapidly improving performance? Are you suggesting that we abandon our highly successful running game so that Russell can dink and dunk down the field, throwing 35-40 times a game?

Ignoring the fact that Russell Wilson is a rising star in this league, what we have right now is a team that is built to run the ball down the throat of any team in the NFL. Running the football successfully paves the way for play action. Play action paves the way for third and fourth quarter TD bombs which look awesome on the highlight reel. Nothing opens up the deep field like fear of a runner like Marshawn Lynch, and an O-Line which can help him grind it out.

Let me ask you this. Which would you rather watch, a Seahawks team that slowly, methodically moves the ball downfield to score via the pass but gets beat up by physical teams in the run game, or a Seahawks team that beats the living crap out of the other team, delivering the knockout punch in the fourth quarter, in true highlight reel fashion? The way our offense is built is a testament to the attitude that Carroll and Schneider have instilled in this team. We make teams want to run home to mommy with big linemen, big corners, a big running back, and this midget QB who can throw a deep ball like precious few others have. Truly, Russel's deep accuracy is a gift from the football gods.

Would you compromise this team's identity just to see him throw the ball more?


good stuff.. To be quite honest, the design is for him to throw for 225 yards a game. That Flea Flicker if complete would have given us 225+ yards and 3 TD's. They are taking the shots, In the Viking there was a 15+ yard pass that Wilson just overthrew Baldwin on. They have it setup for him to pass 30 times assuming they can sustain drives. That's all we really need. (He's averaging 25 passes a game this year despite some wildly inconsistent games. The most drives you sustain the more attempts you can make.) I think as we see the efficiency improve we'll see more throws.


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 Post subject: Re: Fast forward to 2013... Do we fully unleash Russell Wilson?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:53 am 
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Sarlacc83 wrote:
kearly wrote:
I think Wilson is fully unleashed right now. He's providing scoring on an incredibly efficient basis. His TD per pass attempt rate is one of the higher marks in the league.

Wilson is a natural born point guard at QB. Part of that profile means that he exists to makes his teammates (read: running game) better. Those kinds of QBs aren't about stealing the show and posting 500 yard games. If you take that kind of QB out of a run centric environment, he typically suffers. We saw this with UW in September when Keith Price suffered from the slow start of Bishop Sankey.

That plus Pete Carroll does not care about yards or even scoring- all he cares about is winning. To him, a 3-0 win is just as good as a 63-0 win. He wants to control the game, because if the Seahawks control the game on both sides of the ball they usually win. Wilson is providing value by being consistent and keeping the offense under control. It would be a disservice to call him a game manager, because game managers typically aren't playmakers and Wilson is a playmaker, but it is a similar situation in that Wilson's real role is to be the manager of the offense.


We need a new word for what Wilson is. Something like chessmaster or Grand Vizier.


He's like a wizard with some of his magical escapability and playmaking. So maybe we could call him Grand Wizard or something like that.




What? :|

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