A first-round LB for a defense that uses so much nickel?

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  • Figured I'd start my own thread for this, but Rob is now officially on the Ogletree bandwagon, and knowing him he'll have his heels dug in right up until April assuming Ogletree doesn't taper off or shoot anyone. :) And I've no problems with that.

    But Seattle doesn't play three linebackers on nearly every down. They've played a lot of base defense lately, yeah, and Bradley's taking heat for it. This is a D that plays more nickel (our Bandit if the 5th guy is a safety) than almost any other team, and bringing Walter Thurmond back is only going to make it more prevalent. Any starting 3rd linebacker will see the field on limited snaps.

    So, do we expect Pete to (once again) spend a 1st-rounder on a defensive stud who only sees the field part of the time? I know Scotte seems harsh on Wright, but it seems to me that our first-rounder would be better spent.
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  • Part of my high praise for Ogletree is based on his pass rushing potential. He could easily play end in nickel if we expect Irvin to play LEO when Clemons eventually moves on. Ogeltree compares well - IMO - to Julian Peterson as a pass rusher. That's how good he could be. If Clemons played for two more years as a starter, you'd just have two years of a five year rookie deal to find ways to get him on the field. And given how good he is in coverage, I'm not sure why you'd take him off the field on every third down for a DB.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Part of my high praise for Ogletree is based on his pass rushing potential. He could easily play end in nickel if we expect Irvin to play LEO when Clemons eventually moves on. Ogeltree compares well - IMO - to Julian Peterson as a pass rusher. That's how good he could be. If Clemons played for two more years as a starter, you'd just have two years of a five year rookie deal to find ways to get him on the field. And given how good he is in coverage, I'm not sure why you'd take him off the field on every third down for a DB.



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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Part of my high praise for Ogletree is based on his pass rushing potential. He could easily play end in nickel if we expect Irvin to play LEO when Clemons eventually moves on. Ogeltree compares well - IMO - to Julian Peterson as a pass rusher. That's how good he could be. If Clemons played for two more years as a starter, you'd just have two years of a five year rookie deal to find ways to get him on the field. And given how good he is in coverage, I'm not sure why you'd take him off the field on every third down for a DB.


    Honest question, Rob - What makes you think it'll be easy for him to play defensive end? He's never played the position.
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  • Recon_Hawk wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Part of my high praise for Ogletree is based on his pass rushing potential. He could easily play end in nickel if we expect Irvin to play LEO when Clemons eventually moves on. Ogeltree compares well - IMO - to Julian Peterson as a pass rusher. That's how good he could be. If Clemons played for two more years as a starter, you'd just have two years of a five year rookie deal to find ways to get him on the field. And given how good he is in coverage, I'm not sure why you'd take him off the field on every third down for a DB.


    Honest question, Rob - What makes you think it'll be easy for him to play defensive end? He's never played the position.


    Yea, i was kind of thinking the same thing. I remember people saying Aaron Curry could play nickel defensive end too, even though he had never done it.
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  • As to the OP, the best linebackers will play, right? So, it's possible that draft choice would bump either Wagner or Wright if they were better. To be a first round pick at WLB, though, he better be able to play all 3 downs and offer more than just a slight upgrade in pass coverage over the other two or else I think you're right, Montana, the first rounder could be better spent.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Part of my high praise for Ogletree is based on his pass rushing potential. He could easily play end in nickel if we expect Irvin to play LEO when Clemons eventually moves on. Ogeltree compares well - IMO - to Julian Peterson as a pass rusher. That's how good he could be. If Clemons played for two more years as a starter, you'd just have two years of a five year rookie deal to find ways to get him on the field. And given how good he is in coverage, I'm not sure why you'd take him off the field on every third down for a DB.


    If you believe he can play DE, you seem to be saying that Ogletree is all-around good enough - in pass-rushing, run defense, and intermediate-to-deep coverage - to free Seattle from their need for intention-disguising Bandit packages. Is that accurate? If so, hell, I'm all for him.

    Am I also correct in saying that KJ Wright is pretty much rapidly losing favor with everyone around here? Because if that's based on the recent perceived "dropoff" in defense, I don't see that as sufficient reason.
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  • I'd rather have a true impact TE or a monster 3 tech with the first rounder.
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  • SacHawk2.0 wrote:I'd rather have a true impact TE or a monster 3 tech with the first rounder.



    Those are really hard to find. Especially the 3 tech.


    Take the 2010 draft. Jermaine Gresham in the first, Rob Gronkowski and Jimmy Graham in the 2nd and 4th respectively. You can find them anywhere, and if anyone can do it, our FO can.
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  • Recon_Hawk wrote:Honest question, Rob - What makes you think it'll be easy for him to play defensive end? He's never played the position.


    He's shown evidence of pass rushing quality. Case in point - Ole Miss on Saturday. He lines up on the edge and just flat out beat the left tackle for speed, made a big sack. It was the only time Georgia put him in that position in the entire game, but that's more to do with the quality they have on the defensive line. They don't need to send the ILB's when guys like Jarvis Jones are playing the edge.

    Aaron Curry was playing virtually every snap he took at Wake Forest 10 yards behind the LOS and just reacting to what played out in front of him. Curry was never really tasked with rushing the passer. Nothing about his game hinted he could do it but for a very athletic display at the combine. He didn't have the length or the burst to do it effectively and anyone who projected him as a pass rusher was either a hopeful/optimistic Seahawks fan or someone taking a giant leap of faith. Ogletree has the frame to make it a key aspect of his game - he's tall/lean with an explosive first step. He can explode round the corner and he's enough of an athlete to show cover and blitz, or vice versa. I'm as excited about Ogletree as I was totally underwhelmed by Curry.

    And let's put this into context here, I'm suggesting he could play end on some downs in the nickel. It's not a full blown move. He'd be a linebacker at the next level and I suspect he'll be a very good one in the right scheme. But if we're talking about what he does in the nickel - DE is potentially a role he could take that allows you to keep K.J. Wright and Bobby Wagner on the field.

    MontanaHawk05 wrote:If you believe he can play DE, you seem to be saying that Ogletree is all-around good enough - in pass-rushing, run defense, and intermediate-to-deep coverage - to free Seattle from their need for intention-disguising Bandit packages. Is that accurate? If so, hell, I'm all for him.

    Am I also correct in saying that KJ Wright is pretty much rapidly losing favor with everyone around here? Because if that's based on the recent perceived "dropoff" in defense, I don't see that as sufficient reason.


    I would say he's good enough to do anything - feature in bandit or just play more base on third down. The guy covers like a safety playing linebacker, can rush the passer. Against Ole Miss alone he's sprinted 25 yards in a split second to make a downfield interception, beaten the left tackle off the edge for a big sack, blown up a run play to force a safety in the end zone, diagnosed a screen pass and destroyed it for a loss. The guy has maybe more upside than any other defensive prospect in the 2012 class.

    As for Wright - I think his play has dipped somewhat. His tackling has been poor recently on some plays I've noticed, he's not having the impact he had in the first few weeks and is he bringing anything as a pass rusher? (I've not checked if he's being asked to bring pressure, just assumed he has some responsibility. I could be wrong). It may be that he's just been quiet recently compared to a fantastic start to the year that is leaving a negative impression of his play recently.
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  • Seattle just spent a 1st round pick on a 3rd down pass rusher, so I don't see any reason why they'd avoid a big upgrade at OLB even if he's a two down player.

    If they drafted a versatile player like Dion Jordan, it's easy to see ways where they could keep him on the field all three downs- just like how they keep Red Bryant on the field all three downs by moving him to the 1 tech on third downs (unless he's being rotated out for rest). Jordan has the tools to play DL, LB, and even a nickle DB. Jordan is huge but it's possible that he could time a better forty than Wagner did.

    Ogletree isn't quite as diverse, but he does have the pass rushing tools to be a potential LEO. He's basically what Aaron Curry should have been, and you all might remember that when Carroll first came here the player he was most excited about inheriting was Aaron Curry. Unfortunately, Curry didn't work out, but the profile is the kind of player Carroll really gravitates towards.

    Also, do we really want KJ Wright on the field during 3rd down? His gift is sniffing out the run and enforcing the edge, not dropping into zone coverage. If Ogletree/Jordan prove themselves to be better coverage linebackers, maybe they'd stay on the field during 3rd downs while Wright sits? FFT.

    Off topic: Lavonte David had 16 tackles in a game last weekend. Good thing Bobby Wagner is working out.

    SacHawk2.0 wrote:I'd rather have a true impact TE or a monster 3 tech with the first rounder.


    As much as I would like to add an impact TE, I'm not seeing one that's worth it in 2013. 2014 could be a different story. There are some good interior line prospects, but that would be the definition of a luxury pick as Mebane, Branch, and Jones are all playing well.

    I think OLB is the only obvious hole on our team. Leroy Hill probably won't be a Seahawk in 2013, which means without further investment his job would be given to a UDFA or equivalent talent such as Bradford, Toomer, or Smith. It wouldn't be the end of the world, but it's clearly an area where big improvement wouldn't be hard to achieve, and there are some really talented WLB prospects in this draft, so it seems like a rather obvious direction to go in- especially since LBs have played a large role with our 3rd down defense problem this year.
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  • Kip, it's funny, during the Detroit game I was thinking about how Lavonte David would have been as asset.
    Montana, I'm not down on Wright, I just don't think he can cover that well. Not many linebackers can, so I'm not disappointed, but on a TE or RB with speed, he is SLOW. I want him to stay in Seattle, I just think he is a 2 1/2 down player. He can cover slower TE's, but not much else.
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