So, you say Russell Wilson does not have a shot at ROY?

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  • RG3 sucked balls today. His statline:

    23 of 39 for 215, for 5.5 YPA. Long of 25. No TD's. No INT's.

    RW's stats:

    16 of 24 for 173, for 7.2 YPA. Long of 23. 3 TD's. No INT's.

    Who faced the better defense? I think Wilson did.

    I will post ESPN's new QBR when it comes out for Wilson. RG3 got 53.3 for QBR, which is slightly above average. I have a hunch Wilson is gonna be in the 90's again :)


    EDIT: Wilson only got 82.8. Weak! Probably because of the lack of deep passes. I'll still take it though, just goes to show how high Wilson has set all our standards :) lol

    Candidates for ROY:

    Doug Martin

    Andrew Luck

    RG3

    RUSSELL WILSON


    Can't think of anyone else.
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  • Don't forget about Andrew Luck. Colts are 5-3, and Luck threw for 433 and 2 TDs today. Not to mention a lot of voters will be biased towards the #1 overall pick that's replacing Peyton Manning. Gonna be a close one, though I do, of course, want Wilson to win the nomination.
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  • If we're talking about ROY, I think Doug Martin has earned a spot in the conversation.
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  • Right now i'd put Wilson at 3rd behind Luck and Martin.
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  • RW has no chance, simply because he ply's his trade is south Alaska.
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  • seedhawk wrote:RW has no chance, simply because he ply's his trade is south Alaska.

    If Russell played in NYC, Boston, and Chicago all at the same time, it wouldn't change the fact that Andrew Luck put up 433 yards passing today and Doug Martin had 251 yards rushing with 4 TDs. Both are having great seasons, along with Griffin, who was getting MVP love just last week. That's tough competition.

    OROY has always been a stats thing. I really don't think it matters where the guys are playing.
    Last edited by Rat on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Rat wrote:
    seedhawk wrote:RW has no chance, simply because he ply's his trade is south Alaska.

    If Russell played in NYC, Boston, and Chicago all at the same time, it wouldn't change the fact that Andrew Luck put up 433 yards passing and Doug Martin had 251 yards rushing with 4 TDs.

    OROY has always been a stats thing. I really don't think it matters where the guys are playing.



    Woah there, c'mon, the guys who vote may pay attention to QBR. Wilson's been scoring insanely high lately on that. INSANELY high.
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  • hawksfan515 wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    seedhawk wrote:RW has no chance, simply because he ply's his trade is south Alaska.

    If Russell played in NYC, Boston, and Chicago all at the same time, it wouldn't change the fact that Andrew Luck put up 433 yards passing and Doug Martin had 251 yards rushing with 4 TDs.

    OROY has always been a stats thing. I really don't think it matters where the guys are playing.



    Woah there, c'mon, the guys who vote may pay attention to QBR. Wilson's been scoring insanely high lately on that. INSANELY high.


    QBR is a meaningless stat. if it doesnt show up on the w/l column or in fantasy football then nobody pays attention to it.
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  • Well J, if QBR is a meaningless stat then so is yards and TD's and such :(

    QBR is a very good indicator of how much a QB contributed to his team.
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  • I don't really know much about QBR. Is that even an official stat? I thought it was something ESPN made up.
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  • hawksfan515 wrote:Well J, if QBR is a meaningless stat then so is yards and TD's and such :(

    QBR is a very good indicator of how much a QB contributed to his team.


    Maybe to us obsessed fans. But to the casual fan, or to the people voting for awards they look for sexy stats like touchdowns and yards, they couldnt care less about QBR. If they cared about QBR then Wilson would have easily won the Heisman last year.
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  • Rat wrote:I don't really know much about QBR. Is that even an official stat? I thought it was something ESPN made up.



    I think it's an official stat now. And yes ESPN made it. It's basically a revamped version of QB rating. But it's QBR. :les:
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  • I don't think anyone has said RW has NO shot. But I think there are other players who have legitimate, and probably more legitimate, claims. RG3 still is probably the leader. Martin has recently made his case. Luck has been very, very good, in a more pass-heavy offense.

    I won't feel slighted if RW doesn't win it. I think he likely won't. But I agree, he should at least be considered, and I think in an average year he'd be the best rookie QB.
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  • Martin being a non-QB won't be in the discussion, nor should he be, unless the other QBs absolutely sucked. You can't compare the duites of a RB to the pressure filled responsibilities of a QB. At this rate, Luck should win it and Wilson should be *second, IMO.

    *IF Pete was as reckless with RW as Shanahan is with RG3, there's no doubt RW's stats would be much more impressive than they currently are. Two very diiferent approaches to the position and I hope the voters consider as much.
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  • If it was "Most Valuable Rookie", Wilson would be near the top of the list, if not the leader, but it's not.

    I guess that's fair though, since Luck and Griffin were drafted by much worse teams. It'd be unfair to just look at wins.
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  • I will say he has no shot. His stats are going to be minimal compared to glory boys, Luck and Griffin.

    His success will be interpreted because of Lynch and the D.

    Luckily, Wilson just wants to win.
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  • Wilson's my guy BUT Luck just set the rookie passing yardage record for a single game. He's quickly overshadowing Peyton Manning's rookie stats with the Colts and has them positioned for a realistic run at the playoffs. Most importantly his game today is garnering more attention than RW.
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  • Luck has led the Colts on a three-game winning streak and a comfortable spot in the playoff conversation (i.e., the "if the season ended today" conversation), not to mention the break from criticism he gets just for being Andrew Luck. At this point, Wilson would probably have to win a playoff game to upstage him.
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  • He may be the dark horse. Depends on the 2nd half of the season.

    What he does have is a huge Tiger Woodish potential for endorsements. He is smart, looks good and well spoken. The Levi Commercial was very good.
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  • As far as Griffin goes, let him have ROY if it ends up that way. If he keeps playing like he is it'll be Vick city in terms of being hurt all the time. They're x-raying his ribs right now, not kidding.
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  • I want him to be the obvious choice and get robbed....want him to have an even bigger chip on his shoulder.
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  • I would like to believe Wilson has a shot, but Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin will most likely make the voters forget about him. What a year to be a rookie...
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  • I see RG3 as Blake Griffin. Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck as Tim Duncan.

    One wins fans and highlight reals, the others win games.
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  • T-Sizzle wrote:I want him to be the obvious choice and get robbed....want him to have an even bigger chip on his shoulder.


    They'll all regret their choice when we blowout the Steelers in the SB and he's named MVP :)
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  • I think RW would vote for Luck. The fact their two names are being said in the same sentence speaks volumes about RW. Like most of you, I've watched an assload of QBs drafted over the years, few looked more promising than Andy Luck. The kid is a football machine and like Manning, born to play the position.

    RG3 is the second coming of Mike Vick. Vick has never won anything and can't stay healthy. RG3 is a rare specimen that will take NFL defenses a season to dial in. And they will. They always do. We all watched Vick ruin the Falcons. It was Vick that ran off Matt Schabb. Atlanta was damn fortunate to score Ryan and now are on the verge of something big. Long term, the Schabbs, Ryans and Wilsons will get their team where they want to be. Not so much the Vicks, Newtons and RG3s. Those guys come and go and no matter how badly an OC wants to re-invent the position, time has proven running QBs lose more than they win...including playing time.
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  • hawksfan515 wrote:
    T-Sizzle wrote:I want him to be the obvious choice and get robbed....want him to have an even bigger chip on his shoulder.


    They'll all regret their choice when we blowout the Steelers in the SB and he's named MVP :)


    I'd be damn happy with a play off win but love your enthusiasm. Once we get back to sweeping the division, HFA will be ours, which makes the SB quite likely. I'm in!
    Last edited by HawkWow on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • I've seen highlights for the Redskins vs. Panthers game about 60 times, and non stop talk about the Colts. I am still waiting for Hawks highlights. Granted, I've dozed off a few times, but still seen colts and skins highlights many times over.

    I'm not one who believes RW will get slighted because of where he plays. Numbers don't lie. He hasn't been the best yet, albeit he's very good. The only thing the Colts really added was Luck and they were miserable last year. Luck is far more important to Indianapolis than Wilson is to us IMO. I'd still rather have RW though, call me crazy. I just trust him.

    Regardless of who wins, Wilson will get some votes...
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  • Wait, I thought it was called ROY, not ROWeek9? Please don't flush RG3's work down the toilet after one game. I forgot who said it, but there's a quote:

    "It's better to be consistently good, than occasionally great."


    Luck and RG3 have been consistently good. RW and Martin have been occasionally great. If the judging were today - I don't think RW would be in the running. I think Luck's & RG3's steady good performances would rank better than RW's and Martin's freak explosions. In fact, I think the fact that RG3's consistently good AND occasionally great performances have him in 1st.

    But, they don't pick ROY after week 9. If RW were to win out throwing 3 TDs & 300+ yards per game and leads the Hawks to a NFC title game - quite possibly. But I speculate (as everyone else is doing) that things will be status quo for the next 7 weeks: RG3 & Luck will be consistently good with RG3 probably throwing in a few spectacular games to win ROY. RW and Martin will probably have a couple more good-to-great games. Only player with a hope of leading his team to a playoff game is RW, but even then, I don't think his performances will be definitively better than Luck's or RG3's.
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  • HawkWow wrote:RG3 is the second coming of Mike Vick. Vick has never won anything and can't stay healthy. RG3 is a rare specimen that will take NFL defenses a season to dial in. And they will. They always do. We all watched Vick ruin the Falcons. It was Vick that ran off Matt Schabb. Atlanta was damn fortunate to score Ryan and now are on the verge of something big. Long term, the Schabbs, Ryans and Wilsons will get their team where they want to be. Not so much the Vicks, Newtons and RG3s. Those guys come and go and no matter how badly an OC wants to re-invent the position, time has proven running QBs lose more than they win...including playing time.

    I don't think RG3 is anything like Vick, other than that they're both really fast. Vick may have the most impressive overall skill set I've ever seen from a QB. RG3 doesn't have Vick's power, but he's a lot more accurate. The big difference between the two is that RG3 is about a million times smarter than Vick. Griffin will work hard, put in the time in practice, and improve. He's also a much more natural leader than Vick. RG3 is kind of like Wilson in that they're both charming and extraordinarily charismatic. Even before all of Vick's legal troubles, nobody thought all that much about him as a person.

    Vick "ran off Matt Schaub"? I don't understand what you mean by that. Schaub isn't that good anyway. The Falcons were lucky to get what they did for him.
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  • I totally disagree with almost your entire post. There is nothing strong about Vick. Quite the opposite. I'm certain RG3 runs and plays stronger than Vick. They both have a tendency to play off of their athetisism instead of staying in the safe confines of a pocket. Both have a tendency to see their first receiver covered, then refusing to see their 2nd, or 3rd option, take off running. Vick has been hurt, RG3 will get hurt. Both are arrogant and as much about personal goals as winning. I've heard very few people ever describe Vick's skillset as QB...complete. I don't think I've ever heard that, actually. Even in his youth at Atlanta, there were murmurings that he should be used as a wide-out or TB.

    I don't know what to say about the "luck" of the Falcons in the context you use the word in. Schaub was clearly better than Vick. Vick just wasn't very good as a QB. They basically tradeda pro-bowl (x2) QB for two 2nd rd picks.

    Coming off of injury, Vick went to Blank and his coaches and bitched that it was unfair to the line that they have to block for a running QB, then blcok for a pocket QB IF (LOL) he went down. Well, what went down was the trade to HOuston, where Schaub has played very well and often excellent, and Vick went to the joint. This left Atlanta totally screwed. Yes, they were fortunate to have picked Ryan, but imagine what they could have traded that pick for while keeping a more than serviceable Schaub?

    This fascination with Mike Vick is about to run it's course as he ruins another team and costs Reid his job. Yet Vick still insists he is "one of the best players in the league". I do agree with one of your points, Vick is stupid. Let it be understood, I do not hate Vick the man. He made a mistake and more than paid his dues. I am happy for him he got the chance to fund his retirement. I just don't like him as a QB.

    I do respect your opinion and we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic.
    Last edited by HawkWow on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • HawkWow wrote:I totally disagree with almost your entire post. There is nothing strong about Vick. Quite the opposite. I'm certain RG3 runs and plays stronger than Vick. They both have a tendency to play off of their athetisism instead of staying in the safe confines of a pocket. Both have a tendency to see their first receiver covered, then refusing to see their 2nd, or 3rd option, take off running. Vick has been hurt, RG3 will get hurt. Both are arrogant and as much about personal goals as winning. I've heard very few people ever describe Vick's skillset as QB...complete. I don't think I've ever heard that, actually. Even in his youth at Atlanta, there were murmurings that he should be used as a wide-out or TB.

    I don't know what to say about the "luck" of the Falcons in the context you use the word in. Schaub was clearly better than Vick. Vick just wasn't very good as a QB.

    Coming off of injury, Vick went to Blank and his coaches and bitched that it was unfair to the line that they have to block for a running QB, then blcok for a pocket QB IF (LOL) he went down. Well, what went down was the trade to HOuston, where Schaub has played very well and often excellent, and Vick went to the joint. This left Atlanta totally screwed. Yes, they were fortunate to have picked Ryan, but imagine what they could have traded that pick for while keeping a more than serviceable Schaub?

    This fascination with Mike Vick is about to run it's course as he ruins another team and costs Reid his job. Yet Vick still insists he is "one of the best players in the league". I do agree with one of your points, Vick is stupid. Let it be understood, I do not hate Vick the man. He made a mistake and more than paid his dues. I am happy for him he got the chance to fund his retirement. I just don't like him as a QB.

    I do respect your opinion and we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic.



    Only one disagreement....

    RG3 is a way better person than Vick. A way better person. WAYYYyY better.
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  • It appears he is. Vick and his brother are a couple of thugs. But as I stated above, I believe he more than paid his debt to society. I think Stallworth killed a human and got (much) less. I wish them both well and I;m glad we don't have either in Hawk Blue.
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  • HawkWow wrote:Both are arrogant and as much about personal goals as winning.

    I couldn't disagree more with this part. What have you seen from RG3 that makes you think he's all about himself? He was very team-oriented at Baylor. He's about as natural of a leader as they come. Comparing him with Vick in this regard is insane.

    HawkWow wrote:I totally disagree with almost your entire post. There is nothing strong about Vick. Quite the opposite. I'm certain RG3 runs and plays stronger than Vick. They both have a tendency to play off of their athetisism instead of staying in the safe confines of a pocket. Both have a tendency to see their first receiver covered, then refusing to see their 2nd, or 3rd option, take off running. Vick has been hurt, RG3 will get hurt. Both are arrogant and as much about personal goals as winning. I've heard very few people ever describe Vick's skillset as QB...complete. I don't think I've ever heard that, actually. Even in his youth at Atlanta, there were murmurings that he should be used as a wide-out or TB.

    I don't know what to say about the "luck" of the Falcons in the context you use the word in. Schaub was clearly better than Vick. Vick just wasn't very good as a QB. They basically tradeda pro-bowl (x2) QB for two 2nd rd picks.

    Coming off of injury, Vick went to Blank and his coaches and bitched that it was unfair to the line that they have to block for a running QB, then blcok for a pocket QB IF (LOL) he went down. Well, what went down was the trade to HOuston, where Schaub has played very well and often excellent, and Vick went to the joint. This left Atlanta totally screwed. Yes, they were fortunate to have picked Ryan, but imagine what they could have traded that pick for while keeping a more than serviceable Schaub?

    This fascination with Mike Vick is about to run it's course as he ruins another team and costs Reid his job. Yet Vick still insists he is "one of the best players in the league". I do agree with one of your points, Vick is stupid. Let it be understood, I do not hate Vick the man. He made a mistake and more than paid his dues. I am happy for him he got the chance to fund his retirement. I just don't like him as a QB.

    I do respect your opinion and we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic.


    Vick was very powerful, IMO. He was (at least early in his career), not just a guy who could make defenders miss, but he could bowl them over as well. Both Vick and RG3 have (or had in Vick's case) blazing speed, but Vick was much more elusive and complete running the ball. RG3 is mostly just fast. Really, aside from them being big threats to run, I don't see many similarities in their games. Vick never completely developed, but coming out of Virginia Tech, he had everything you could want physically. I think he would have been a generational player if he had been more mature.

    I've never heard that story about Vick talking to Blank, but Vick was the easy choice to be starting at the time and when another team offers you two 2nd round picks for your backup QB, it's hard to turn it down. I've never been impressed with Schaub anyway. I seriously can't think of a single big game where he has carried his team to victory. I've also never seen a QB who gets so much of his production in garbage time. He has to be the most overrated QB in the league right now, and probably the most overrated since Donovan McNabb's peak years.
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  • I stand by the fact he has no chance. It's not a knock on Wilson, this contest is just a popularity one. And Luck is running away with that right now.. RG3, Martin, Morris will all get votes too.

    We don't need Wilson to be the ROY. We just need him to do what he did today.
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  • Andrew Luck has led the Colts to a 5-3 record, a year after the team went 2-14. This is with a worse defense, and a much, much worse running game than Wilson. Aside from Reggie Wayne, his targets in the passing game aren't all that impressive either. In a 433 yard passing day, Luck's leading wideouts were Donnie Avery and TJ Hilton. It's hard to not be really impressed with what Luck is doing. Objectively, I don't see how anyone could say that Wilson is more deserving at the moment.
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  • I'd have to say it's #1 Luck, #2 Martin, and #3 Wilson at this point, although people will probably put Griffin 3rd due to East Coast Bias.

    Luck and Martin lead in the stats categories, and they both went to teams with a lot worse talent. They just blew Indy up; that might be the least talented team in the league and Luck is single handedly pulling them along.

    I'm loving Wilson's progression, but keep in mind, he kicked ass today, but only threw for 178 yards. It's going to be like 2005 Matt Hasselbeck......he's gonna be 14-20, for 220 yards and 2 or 3 TDs on a good day. The run game will take care of the rest.

    And if the defense gets back on track, we won't need to throw a lot, since we'll be protecting a lead, and not being behind a lot.
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:I stand by the fact he has no chance. It's not a knock on Wilson, this contest is just a popularity one. And Luck is running away with that right now.. RG3, Martin, Morris will all get votes too.

    We don't need Wilson to be the ROY. We just need him to do what he did today.



    this!!!
    I don't know why I bother... no one cares what I think.
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  • zhawk wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:I stand by the fact he has no chance. It's not a knock on Wilson, this contest is just a popularity one. And Luck is running away with that right now.. RG3, Martin, Morris will all get votes too.

    We don't need Wilson to be the ROY. We just need him to do what he did today.



    this!!!



    I want it so bad though! :(
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  • If Doug Martin keeps running like he is running he will definitly be in discussion
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  • hawksfan515 wrote:Doug Martin

    Andrew Luck

    RG3

    RUSSELL WILSON


    Can't think of anyone else.



    I have all of those players, save Andrew Luck, on my fantasy team. I did pretty well today.
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