Reuben Foster Arrested On Domestic Violence Charges

Popeyejones · Feb 14, 2018

Thanks, man.

Someone made that explain/excuse distinction to me about a decade ago, and it’s always struck me as a super useful way to think about bad behavior.

kidhawk · Feb 14, 2018

Popeyejones":12sbg987 said:
original poster":12sbg987 said:

I feel pretty sorry for the guy, actually.

He's had about as tough of a life as it comes. His father shot his mother whilst she was holding him when he was very young for crying out loud.

He's seriously damaged goods, poor guy.

Click to expand...

Yeah, he's definitely had a rough go of it for sure, and really didn't seem to grow up in an environment that would prepare him to have his crap together at 23 years old. I think the issue with him right now is that we don't really know the details of most of this stuff, so it's unclear if his behavior are things we can explain AND excuse, or if his behavior is things we can explain and CAN'T excuse.

For instance:

Weed in Alabama: If you're in a state with really draconian weed possession laws it's dumb to be carrying weed around, but this is something I can both explain and excuse.

The Gun: Is it a gun he bought legally in a different state that's illegal in the state of CA and he didn't know that? Again that's dumb, but I can explain him making bad decisions, and can excuse him doing something dumb. Or maybe it's a federally banned gun with no serial number on it that he bought off someone? That I can explain but can't really excuse, and as it's a federal crime he's probably going to serve jail time for it. IMO there could be a big difference between "explain" and "excuse" on this one, depending on the details.

The Altercation: We know he was living with his long-term girlfriend, they got in a fight, and he was kicking her out -- he put her stuff on the porch. The accusation is that he also dragged her out of the house, which is where the DV charge comes from. Did he carry her out of the house? Did he pull her by her shoulders out of the house? From his background I can explain him having an unstable relationship with a SO, and I from that explanation I can excuse those types of things, thinking he probably needs to get out of that relationship and needs to get some counseling. Or maybe he dragged her out by her hair, or literally tossed her out of the house, or struck her with an open or closed fist or choked her while dragging her out of the house. I can explain that too, but can't excuse it at all. IMO there could be a HUGE difference between "explain" and "excuse" on this one, depending on the details.

9ers fans are comparing Foster to Aldon Smith, but I don't really think that's right. Aldon has addiction problems and was a huge dumbass many times over, but never hurt anyone. Foster isn't close (yet) to Aldon's many, many instances of dumbassery, but he may have hurt someone.

I agree with every single word with the exception of any excuse for him physically removing her from the home. There's just not an excuse for it. I can't see a single way it could have been self defense. If he wanted her removed from his house, there are legal means and if he has the right to have her removed, the police would have done it for him.

Obviously there's still the need to know exactly what happened, but there really is no excuse for the "violence" unless it was in self defense (which could possibly include defense of property or others, but doesn't seem to fit in this particular scenario).

Popeyejones · Feb 14, 2018

kidhawk":87eaoqyh said:
I agree with every single word with the exception of any excuse for him physically removing her from the home. There's just not an excuse for it. I can't see a single way it could have been self defense. If he wanted her removed from his house, there are legal means and if he has the right to have her removed, the police would have done it for him.

Obviously there's still the need to know exactly what happened, but there really is no excuse for the "violence" unless it was in self defense (which could possibly include defense of property or others, but doesn't seem to fit in this particular scenario).

Yeah, 100% agreed with you in a legal sense, but just say hypothetically (we REALLY don't know) if she was going crazy and he forced her outside (like how a bouncer who was good at his job would do with a belligerent person at a club) or even picked her up and carried her outside in a non-injurious way, that's illegal, but it's also something I can kinda understand and make sense of.

It's not something I ever did in my teens or 20s, but it's definitely something I can imagine myself having done, and something I've seen friends who aren't even remotely abusive people do to deescalate a crazy situation with a SO at around that age. If that's what it was I think it goes in the "dumb, call the cops" category that carrying weed in Alabama goes in, at least for me.

And of course, behind door #2 is he touched her in anger, and even worse maybe in an injurious way, which is an ENTIRELY different thing IMO, and for which I don't want him on the team I root for anymore.

kidhawk · Feb 14, 2018

Popeyejones":2nwsenyz said:
kidhawk":2nwsenyz said:

Obviously there's still the need to know exactly what happened, but there really is no excuse for the "violence" unless it was in self defense (which could possibly include defense of property or others, but doesn't seem to fit in this particular scenario).

Click to expand...

Yeah, 100% agreed with you in a legal sense, but just say hypothetically (we REALLY don't know) if she was going crazy and he forced her outside (like how a bouncer who was good at his job would do with a belligerent person at a club) or even picked her up and carried her outside in a non-injurious way, that's illegal, but it's also something I can kinda understand and make sense of.

I think my last paragraph covers any situation where she was going crazy or acting out in some outrageous fashion that he wasn't left a lot of options. As I said, we need to find out the whole story. I can completely understand how DV stories can often be over exaggerated (to say the least) by one or both parties, especially in the heat of the moment when there is a lot of highly charged emotions at play.

if there were injuries, the police would have surely documented them, and if not, then it likely comes down to a he said vs she said and we may never actually know the extent of what happened. Then it becomes a bit of a gray area. Without a history of previous offenses, and no injuries in a situation like this, it's hard to cast blame at this point, but it certainly is not a good look to be arrested twice this early in the off season.

Popeyejones · Feb 15, 2018

kidhawk":2r7pxkgb said:
if there were injuries, the police would have surely documented them, and if not, then it likely comes down to a he said vs she said and we may never actually know the extent of what happened. Then it becomes a bit of a gray area. Without a history of previous offenses, and no injuries in a situation like this, it's hard to cast blame at this point, but it certainly is not a good look to be arrested twice this early in the off season.

Yep, it doesn't look good at all, and that's *even with* the absolute best case scenario for him of the gun and altercation not being as bad as it initially sounds, and both of them very well might be WORSE than they initially sound too.

In terms of the DV, legally, if it gets that far (which it almost never does) it will likely come down to physical evidence, but morally (and this is just a personal thing, not a rule) after everyone has had time to cool off I always give much more credence to the story of the victim, regardless of the situation, as although they *might* be lying, they are much less likely to have the pressing motivation to lie, or to keep up something they said in the heat of the moment.

In the heat of the moment people are worked up and say crazy things, but months later, if we have to make an educated guess, I just think *most people* aren't crazy and aren't entirely willing to make things up out of thin air. There are always exceptions to this (e.g. Carolyn Bryant Donham's end-of-life confession), but I do think those probably are the exceptions to a more general rule.

RolandDeschain · Feb 17, 2018

Popeyejones":evmuhvhf said:
There are always exceptions to this (e.g. Carolyn Bryant Donham's end-of-life confession), but I do think those probably are the exceptions to a more general rule.

I don't think they're as rare as you think, unfortunately...

Marvin49 · Feb 20, 2018

RolandDeschain":1ghovjh6 said:
Popeyejones":1ghovjh6 said:

There are always exceptions to this (e.g. Carolyn Bryant Donham's end-of-life confession), but I do think those probably are the exceptions to a more general rule.

Click to expand...

I don't think they're as rare as you think, unfortunately...

You are probably right, but I for one don't want to make that assumption.

In this case I think we just need to let it take its course. If Reuben had punched, kicked, or struck her in any way, I think he's unemployed today.

Removing someone from their home in an argument? I just dunno. I think too often people are too lazy to see nuance to a situation and want a draconian "one rule fits all" type of enforcement. I don't believe in that. Life is too complex.

This isn't to defend Reuben because I really don't know the specifics of the situation, but there are a lot of different situations that could have resulted in what he has been booked for.

My hope for primarily her sake and for Reubens sake that there was very little physical contact between them.

Popeyejones · Feb 20, 2018

Marvin49":2gz49vks said:
RolandDeschain":2gz49vks said:

Popeyejones":2gz49vks said:

There are always exceptions to this (e.g. Carolyn Bryant Donham's end-of-life confession), but I do think those probably are the exceptions to a more general rule.

Click to expand...

I don't think they're as rare as you think, unfortunately...

Click to expand...

You are probably right, but I for one don't want to make that assumption.

It's a topic for a different thread and a different forum, but the data suggest that both of you are very in that assumption,

Popeyejones · Mar 4, 2018

Popeyejones":eenclh66 said:
9ers fans are comparing Foster to Aldon Smith, but I don't really think that's right. Aldon has addiction problems and was a huge dumbass many times over, but never hurt anyone. Foster isn't close (yet) to Aldon's many, many instances of dumbassery, but he may have hurt someone.

And Aldon now on the lam after a DV charge on his fiancée, so we can potentially eliminate the one good thing you could say about him (never hurt anybody).

Sports Hernia · Mar 4, 2018

Popeyejones":4vtdz4by said:
Popeyejones":4vtdz4by said:

9ers fans are comparing Foster to Aldon Smith, but I don't really think that's right. Aldon has addiction problems and was a huge dumbass many times over, but never hurt anyone. Foster isn't close (yet) to Aldon's many, many instances of dumbassery, but he may have hurt someone.

Click to expand...

And Aldon now on the lam after a DV charge on his fiancée, so we can potentially eliminate the one good thing you could say about him (never hurt anybody).

Wow, just wow. Million dollar talent, 10 cent head.

His decision making ability is beyond poor. I hope his finance runs away, and fast.

This guy had the world in the palm of his hand at one time and blew it and continues to blow it.

RolandDeschain · Mar 4, 2018

At this point, I think it's safe to say that Aldon Smith's dad should have pulled out early on the fateful night he spawned that moron.

5_Golden_Rings · Mar 7, 2018

The thing is, even if Foster kicked her out, in California you can't just evict someone. Now, if it were Tennessee or something, he'd probably have the right to physically remove her from the premises. Not so much in California. And that just brings up the real issue with Foster: he has ZERO respect for authority unless he knows and likes the authority figure. Nurse at the combine? Nope. Laws in Alabama? Nope. Law in California? Nope. The NFL and their substance abuse policy? Nope (as evidenced by his draft party being sponsored by a smoking paraphernalia company).

Weed should be legal, but the fact is, it is not, and it is certainly not legal according to the NFL's bylaws. If he respected authority, he would stop smoking because the NFL doesn't allow it.

But he does what he wants, and refuses to take responsibility.

Until he grows the heck up, this pattern will continue.

Popeyejones · Apr 12, 2018

Cut him.

Now.

Be ashamed you didn't do it earlier.

(note: I really hope we can all agree he should be cut. That said, any Hawks fan who tries to turn this into a thing about the 9ers, DV, and criminality, well, I'm gonna shove your glass house right back in your face, I promise, even if I have to register for that off field forum thing to do it. :lol: :2thumbs

JGfromtheNW · Apr 12, 2018

Agreed. Pretty gross to see the details coming out. He's being charged with felony domestic violence.

The victim told responding sheriff’s deputies and Los Gatos police that Foster dragged her by her hair, physically threw her out of the house, and punched her in the head 8 to 10 times.

rlkats · Apr 12, 2018

Popeyejones":3ixl45p7 said:
Cut him.

Now.

Be ashamed you didn't do it earlier.

(note: I really hope we can all agree he should be cut. That said, any Hawks fan who tries to turn this into a thing about the 9ers, DV, and criminality, well, I'm gonna shove your glass house right back in your face, I promise, even if I have to register for that off field forum thing to do it. :lol: :2thumbs

Agreed 100% CUT HIM, CUT HIM
Now that the details are flowing out he deserves every bit of the 11 years in prison he could get. Lock his ass up

kobebryant · Apr 12, 2018

Part of being a good leadership group, which I believe Lynch and Shanahan are, is knowing when to cut your losses and accept something as sunk cost and move on.

From a football standpoint I just don't see how Foster would fit in with a leadership group on the defensive side of the ball that includes Richard Sherman and Soloman Thomas.

Coug_Hawk08 · Apr 12, 2018

Sounds grim. Not sure the 49ers will cut him, their statement on this is pretty wimpy.

He will be suspended for most if not all of the season regardless of any legal outcome.

rlkats · Apr 12, 2018

Coug_Hawk08":2c6rapps said:
Sounds grim. Not sure the 49ers will cut him, their statement on this is pretty wimpy.

He will be suspended for most if not all of the season regardless of any legal outcome.

Ya my Niners are showing a pretty sorry way of the situation. Charges have been filed, details have emerged as to the severity. I don’t get it cut him. Ya it’s a set back but if you really are trying to change perception of catering to off the field issues then you cut him. No other choice.

Marvin49 · Apr 12, 2018

Welp, that sucks. Sigh.

The 49ers statement leads me to believe that they don't necessarily believe or more accurately aren't sure he's guilty of what he being charged of.

If he indeed punched her 8 times tho and busted her eardrum...

...I'm done. Cut him.

rlkats · Apr 12, 2018

Marvin49":29cj25jm said:
Welp, that sucks. Sigh.

The 49ers statement leads me to believe that they don't necessarily believe or more accurately aren't sure he's guilty of what he being charged of.

If he indeed punched her 8 times tho and busted her eardrum...

...I'm done. Cut him.

I don’t know man. There is a medical report and I’m sure pictures. I just don’t see what the question is. He beat the brakes off her. We cut a player that was accused of DV and he was never charged. So what’s the deal? Cut the scum.

Reuben Foster Arrested On Domestic Violence Charges

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